That Tebow kid...

[ScarabGator]

When you get over your Bromance with Tebow, let me know.....guy is a great COLLEGE QB, that has Gino Toretta written all over him.

I dont see any reasoning to lead you to make any comparisons between Timmy and Gino Torreta. Tim is handsdown 100x the athlete Gino could ever dream to be.

Your assertion is also flawed. They both have Heisman's, and they both have National Championships. What is your criteria for 100x an athlete?

Gino had his ass handed to him against Alabama.....

[S2M]

Ok, I can see I'm gonna have to go remedial on you. Switching it up.

Let's say that the Spurs draft an 8' center. And all he does is roam down low(and pre-empting your first come-back), he doesn't get 3 secs called on him every time. And ALL he does is catch and dunk. He breaks every scoring record known to man.

AGAIN, is he talented, or just a physical freak(read: a tall fuck)?

[Enigma869]

Well I'm politely disagree. He is opinionated. But that doesn't mean he is great. He has a big mouth. Always in the public eye. The less-than defensive juggernauts - Patriots shut him down in week 1. He is done. Assuming he has this bigger than life talent you are refering to - it come 100% from his size. Same with Shaq. Shaq success comes from his size and strength. If the NBA made dunking illegal, Shaq would be Eric Montross/Dino Radja.

Without T.O.'s size he'd be Reche Caldwell. T.O. is a mirage.

Sorry dude, but you simply don't know what you're talking about. Let me state again...I LOATHE Owens. He represents everything that is wrong with sports, and I don't believe that it's a coincidence that none of the teams he was part of were able to win a championship. It still doesn't warrant putting him into a category with stiffs who were VERY marginal players. I also don't even disagree with your point that the guy is probably done. Whether he's done or not won't change the guy's numbers. He ranks in the top 5 for all time receiving yards in the history of the NFL and is in the top 5 for all time touchdowns. The guy is on his way to the HOF whether you like the guy or not (and I don't)! Sports arguments lose all credibility when the person arguing against a certain player isn't basing any of his argument on the actual numbers and just whether he likes a guy or not!

[S2M]

When you get over your Bromance with Tebow, let me know.....guy is a great COLLEGE QB, that has Gino Toretta written all over him.

I dont see any reasoning to lead you to make any comparisons between Timmy and Gino Torreta. Tim is handsdown 100x the athlete Gino could ever dream to be.

Your assertion is also flawed. They both have Heisman's, and they both have National Championships. What is your criteria for 100x an athlete?

Gino had his ass handed to him against Alabama.....

Alabama? Are you kidding me? a noted NCAA historically decent football team! LMAO.

Now I'll refer you to Ole Miss....'nuff said.

[Ehwmatt]

Ok, I can see I'm gonna have to go remedial on you. Switching it up.

Let's say that the Spurs draft an 8' center. And all he does is roam down low(and pre-empting your first come-back), he doesn't get 3 secs called on him every time. And ALL he does is catch and dunk. He breaks every scoring record known to man.

AGAIN, is he talented, or just a physical freak(read: a tall fuck)?

If he's athletic enough to deal with the smaller but presumably more powerful guys and can make it up and down the court, more power to him. The perfect blend of freakish gifts AND ability.

However, this is quickly getting retarded. The next step here is to ask if the Browns go to the Himalayas and draft Yeti to play Nose Tackle and he records 20 sacks a game, is he talented or just a physical freak?

Other receives of TO's size have played the game before. They didn't post TO's numbers. So, what happened, if it's all on account of size?

[ScarabGator]

When you get over your Bromance with Tebow, let me know.....guy is a great COLLEGE QB, that has Gino Toretta written all over him.

I dont see any reasoning to lead you to make any comparisons between Timmy and Gino Torreta. Tim is handsdown 100x the athlete Gino could ever dream to be.

Your assertion is also flawed. They both have Heisman's, and they both have National Championships. What is your criteria for 100x an athlete?

Gino had his ass handed to him against Alabama.....

Alabama? Are you kidding me? a noted NCAA historically decent football team! LMAO.

Now I'll refer you to Ole Miss....'nuff said.

no man, Gino was not the college athlete Tebow is. My point was I was just wondering when Tebow has been defeated in a game as bad as highly favorite Miami were in that Bama game? The Tide werent supposed to be able to stay on the field with the Canes.....

[S2M]

When you get over your Bromance with Tebow, let me know.....guy is a great COLLEGE QB, that has Gino Toretta written all over him.

I dont see any reasoning to lead you to make any comparisons between Timmy and Gino Torreta. Tim is handsdown 100x the athlete Gino could ever dream to be.

Your assertion is also flawed. They both have Heisman's, and they both have National Championships. What is your criteria for 100x an athlete?

Gino had his ass handed to him against Alabama.....

Alabama? Are you kidding me? a noted NCAA historically decent football team! LMAO.

Now I'll refer you to Ole Miss....'nuff said.

no man, Gino was not the college athlete Tebow is. My point was I was just wondering when Tebow has been defeated in a game as bad as highly favorite Miami were in that Bama game? The Tide werent supposed to be able to stay on the field with the Canes.....

OH....so ONE game means he sucks?

[ScarabGator]

When you get over your Bromance with Tebow, let me know.....guy is a great COLLEGE QB, that has Gino Toretta written all over him.

I dont see any reasoning to lead you to make any comparisons between Timmy and Gino Torreta. Tim is handsdown 100x the athlete Gino could ever dream to be.

Your assertion is also flawed. They both have Heisman's, and they both have National Championships. What is your criteria for 100x an athlete?

Gino had his ass handed to him against Alabama.....

Alabama? Are you kidding me? a noted NCAA historically decent football team! LMAO.

Now I'll refer you to Ole Miss....'nuff said.

no man, Gino was not the college athlete Tebow is. My point was I was just wondering when Tebow has been defeated in a game as bad as highly favorite Miami were in that Bama game? The Tide werent supposed to be able to stay on the field with the Canes.....

OH....so ONE game means he sucks?

bud, why are we arguing about Gino Torreta???? I could care less about him...this thread was started for Timmy Tebow. But in logical sense I'd say compare records...I would but dont care enough.

[Enigma869]

But in logical sense I'd say compare records...I would but dont care enough.

It's a bit tough to compare Tebow's numbers to Torretta's. Torretta only played at Miami for two seasons while Tebow has played all four. What I will say in the defense of Torretta (I can't even believe I'm going down this road) is that Gino's college numbers were pretty good. Over the course of two seasons, his record was 23-1 with one national championsip and one Heisman. Torretta had more yards over his two years than Tebow had over any two year span, while Tebow had more TD's than Torretta over any two year span. Torretta had a better win loss record over the course of his two year college career than Tebow had over any two year span. The bottom line is that Tebow could very well be Gino Torretta or he could be Tom Brady. History will make that decision, not anyone on these boards!

[ScarabGator]

John, thats a good point. Like you I didnt want to go down the road to research it. But heart for heart I have to believe Tebow will do better than Torreta. I cant believe after nearly 20 years we are talking about Torreta..in a Gator QB thread!

[Enigma869]

John, thats a good point. Like you I didnt want to go down the road to research it. But heart for heart I have to believe Tebow will do better than Torreta. I cant believe after nearly 20 years we are talking about Torreta..in a Gator QB thread!

I understand your point. I was just throwing it out there that STM's comparison between the two guys really isn't as far off as some think it is. They both played QB for dominant Florida college teams. They both won a single Heisman (and I don't see Tebow coming close to winning a second one this season). They both won a single national championsip (Tebow could obviously win a second this season), and Torretta got to the championship game in the only two seasons he played. Also, I remember those Miami teams, and I can tell you that there wasn't a single supporter of the UofMiami program who didn't think Torretta was the next Joe Montana, so in that respect, there are some parallels. Who knows what Tebow will become. I suspect he'll land somewhere in between Torretta and Montana, but I'd be a lot more surprised if he were closer to Montana than to Torretta. It's not meant to disparage the guy. I think most pro scouts feel the same way. I'm not sure that Tebow will even crack the top 5 QB's drafted, because he isn't highly thought of as a pro prospect. I should probably also mention that Joe Montana was a third round pick coming out of Notre Dame, and Tom Brady was a SIXTH round pick coming out of Michigan! As always with these things, time will decide what Tebow becomes in the NFL, if that's the road he goes down.

[Angel]

They both played QB for dominant Florida college teams. They both won a single Heisman (and I don't see Tebow coming close to winning a second one this season). They both won a single national championsip (Tebow could obviously win a second this season), and Torretta got to the championship game in the only two seasons he played.

They are both HOT....how is it that you guys keep missing this part???????????????

[larryfromnextdoor]

this is the slow motion of the concussion hit..

this is one tough dude..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cc8fwpYAHM

[ScarabGator]

Larry-I still weep when I see that, just like the night it happened. When Timmy lay motionless on the field I collapsed on the floor asking for it to be me instead.....

[larryfromnextdoor]

Larry-I still weep when I see that, just like the night it happened. When Timmy lay motionless on the field I collapsed on the floor asking for it to be me instead.....

not trying to make light ,, BUT if it were anyone else.. they might be dead right now.. he is talented and tough as nails..

[Ehwmatt]

Just watching that makes my head hurt like I just woke up after soloing a bottle of Jack in a cpl hours.

[Tomulator]

My .2cents on Tebow in the NFL:

If the man wants to be a Quarterback, then he would be a career backup AT BEST. He would suffer immediately under an NFL, drop back system that goes along with complex defense's that are so quick and so ferocious off the edges that if he would ever want to run an "opinionated" system, then he would fail miserably. If anything, he has a build of a Tight End and seems to be a pretty strong dude who can take hits and has a strong build. Of course, the jury is still out on what position he would play, or how coach's would want to use him, and more than likely he will be drafted as a Quarterback, but unless he learns on the ropes to be a down the field passer and look down the gun barrel, then I don't see how he would fair in the NFL as a Quarterback. He doesn't have the credentials to be an all around quarterback, and if anything he's a glorified running back who runs the option at the college level. Still, he will be a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick, and teams will certainly take a chance on him regardless. He might be able to operate a west coast type system, but that's pushing it. If he learns how to block and use his strong build and body, he might have a niche as a Tight End in the league, but that's just speculation and you can't just expect him to become a TE over night. Quarterback is where he'll play & his heart, if anything will prevail in the NFL. At least he'll have that going for him.

I always figured him to be an NFL tight end myself too if anything, but hey, you never know what could happen. The guy could prove all of us wrong. Grit and heart go a long way in sports and it's not like he's undersized. He could possibly pull it off. But I'm inclined to agree with you overall

Reminds me of a certain Brady kid!!!

Who...Greg?

[Enigma869]

Larry-I still weep when I see that, just like the night it happened. When Timmy lay motionless on the field I collapsed on the floor asking for it to be me instead.....

Come on dude...that's a bit over the top...even for you

[YoungJRNY]

GUYS WITH TALENT THAT MIGHT AS WELL DO SOMETHING WITH THAT TALENT, 'WHATEVER' GUYS.

These guys have that raw talent, sort of...but end up getting paid on great college careers - that don't equate well, or don't acclimate themselves to the bigtime. For whatever reason they end up imploding and sabotaging their careers. Guys like T.O. , Todd Marinovich, Reggie Bush, Ricky Williams, Tim Couch(most 1rd round QBs, for that matter). These guys grab that first contract cash grab and end up sucking, moving from team to team(or just disappearing altogether).

While I can't stand Terrell Owens, he simply doesn't belong on the list with the names you have there. The reality is that as much as a headcase as Owens is, he ranks (numbers wise) in the top five receivers in the history of the NFL, because for several years, the guy was simply unstoppable. Again, I'm not a fan but he doesn't belong on the list with those names just by virtue of his production!

Well I'm politely disagree. He is opinionated. But that doesn't mean he is great. He has a big mouth. Always in the public eye. The less-than defensive juggernauts - Patriots shut him down in week 1. He is done. Assuming he has this bigger than life talent you are refering to - it come 100% from his size. Same with Shaq. Shaq success comes from his size and strength. If the NBA made dunking illegal, Shaq would be Eric Montross/Dino Radja.

Without T.O.'s size he'd be Reche Caldwell. T.O. is a mirage.

I'm not a big T.O fan, nor will I ever be. But you can't damper what he means/meant to the NFL during the coarse of his career. To say T.O is only good or only had achievements in this league because he has "size" is nothing short but MORONIC. If you want to go down that path, then you're talking 90% of the National Football League! Don't think this is a valid argument. This guy is a game changer. Not only is he a game changer, but defensive coordinators go into the lab to purposely take T.O out of the game plan because he is a threat to ANY defense out there. He can change the coarse of the game with a blink of an eye. His play the past few years, esp this year has dropped not because that he's playing bad, but because the offensive system he is in is so bad, that even when Buffalo WANTS to give him the ball, they seem to not be able to.

I've seen T.O single handily win games and make offense's on his own and that's the kind of receiver he's always been. If it wasn't for his big mouth and soap opera like antics then maybe he would be in the same league as a Hall of Famer, and maybe he'd had a Super Bowl ring by now. Unfortunately for him, he has the biggest ego's of all ego's and that's why he'll never be a champion, but to say he "isn't that good" or "he's only good because of his size" is not a valid argument. There's more to an athlete than just size, speed, and power.. esp that of an offensive player that requires timing, footwork, trust, and knowledge of what your seeing. T.O is a bitch, and yes, he drops many footballs a year, but he IS that player you must game plan around, or he WILL scorch you on talent alone. Period.

[Enigma869]

If it wasn't for his big mouth and soap opera like antics then maybe he would be in the same league as a Hall of Famer

Are you suggesting that Owens isn't a Hall Of Fame receiver?

[YoungJRNY]

If it wasn't for his big mouth and soap opera like antics then maybe he would be in the same league as a Hall of Famer

Are you suggesting that Owens isn't a Hall Of Fame receiver?

Judging by numbers alone, and what he has done in football games, he is no doubt a Hall of Famer. But judging by the way he is from the outside and how he handles certain situations considering his quarterbacks, and how he single handily sabotages ball clubs, let alone the dropped passes the past few years that goes with no Championship's and a slightly loss of production, then maybe it WILL hurt him, esp since it's votes that elect for the H.O.F. When it comes down to it, yeah, I'd say T.O will be in the hall but there are things there that could prevent it.

[S2M]

If it wasn't for his big mouth and soap opera like antics then maybe he would be in the same league as a Hall of Famer

Are you suggesting that Owens isn't a Hall Of Fame receiver?

Ok, so we know T.O. has a big mouth. I hope Trav doesn't have a big foot.

[YoungJRNY]

If it wasn't for his big mouth and soap opera like antics then maybe he would be in the same league as a Hall of Famer

Are you suggesting that Owens isn't a Hall Of Fame receiver?

Ok, so we know T.O. has a big mouth. I hope Trav doesn't have a big foot.

What in the HELL is that even supposed to mean?

[S2M]

If it wasn't for his big mouth and soap opera like antics then maybe he would be in the same league as a Hall of Famer

Are you suggesting that Owens isn't a Hall Of Fame receiver?

Ok, so we know T.O. has a big mouth. I hope Trav doesn't have a big foot.

What in the HELL is that even supposed to mean?

Obviously, a joke that went over your head.

[S2M]

If it wasn't for his big mouth and soap opera like antics then maybe he would be in the same league as a Hall of Famer

Are you suggesting that Owens isn't a Hall Of Fame receiver?

Judging by numbers alone, and what he has done in football games, he is no doubt a Hall of Famer. But judging by the way he is from the outside and how he handles certain situations considering his quarterbacks, and how he single handily sabotages ball clubs, let alone the dropped passes the past few years that goes with no Championship's and a slightly loss of production, then maybe it WILL hurt him, esp since it's votes that elect for the H.O.F. When it comes down to it, yeah, I'd say T.O will be in the hall but there are things there that could prevent it.

Personally, I don't think STATS alone should get anyone in the HOF. And that's just MY opinion. SUCCESS should account for a whole hell of the vote.

I equate it to the MVP in baseball. I believe that an MVP should come rom a playoff team. Cause if not, what kind of MVP could one possibly be if he couldn't get his team to the playoffs?

Which is why i think that a HOF-er is someone who COUPLED with the stats, won a championship. Cause it is not enough to throw for 60,000 yds in a career, if you don't have a damn thing to show for it. Or have 100 sacks in your career if you don't have anything else to show. Which is why I don't believe that John Riggins should be in the Hall. He led the league in TDs TWICE. Only went to ONE pro-bowl. First team All-pro ONCE. Was a fumble factory. Led the league in TDs ONCE. All in a FOURTEEN year career. But goddamn it, he was a 1 yard TD machine. You need a TD from the 5 yard line? Give it to John. And I guess that is why he is in the HALL. But wait! He has a superbowl win, and MVP. 1982. ONLY reason he is in the HOF. His stats aren't impressive, but he has a ring. Period.

Terrell Owens: 5 time all pro, 6 time Probowl selection. Been a cancer for FOUR teams. No Superbowl rings. Not a HOF-er. Sorry.

[YoungJRNY]

If it wasn't for his big mouth and soap opera like antics then maybe he would be in the same league as a Hall of Famer

Are you suggesting that Owens isn't a Hall Of Fame receiver?

Judging by numbers alone, and what he has done in football games, he is no doubt a Hall of Famer. But judging by the way he is from the outside and how he handles certain situations considering his quarterbacks, and how he single handily sabotages ball clubs, let alone the dropped passes the past few years that goes with no Championship's and a slightly loss of production, then maybe it WILL hurt him, esp since it's votes that elect for the H.O.F. When it comes down to it, yeah, I'd say T.O will be in the hall but there are things there that could prevent it.

Personally, I don't think STATS alone should get anyone in the HOF. And that's just MY opinion. SUCCESS should account for a whole hell of the vote.

I equate it to the MVP in baseball. I believe that an MVP should come rom a playoff team. Cause if not, what kind of MVP could one possibly be if he couldn't get his team to the playoffs?

Which is why i think that a HOF-er is someone who COUPLED with the stats, won a championship. Cause it is not enough to throw for 60,000 yds in a career, if you don't have a damn thing to show for it. Or have 100 sacks in your career if you don't have anything else to show. Which is why I don't believe that John Riggins should be in the Hall. He led the league in TDs TWICE. Only went to ONE pro-bowl. First team All-pro ONCE. Was a fumble factory. Led the league in TDs ONCE. All in a FOURTEEN year career. But goddamn it, he was a 1 yard TD machine. You need a TD from the 5 yard line? Give it to John. And I guess that is why he is in the HALL. But wait! He has a superbowl win, and MVP. 1982. ONLY reason he is in the HOF. His stats aren't impressive, but he has a ring. Period.

Terrell Owens: 5 time all pro, 6 time Probowl selection. Been a cancer for FOUR teams. No Superbowl rings. Not a HOF-er. Sorry.

Stats is only a small portion of being in any kind of Hall Of Fame, in my opinion as well, but sometimes that's what the whole majority of voters strive on when electing a player into the Hall. To me, having the numbers and backing it up what you've meant to the sport, or to the team itself is all it takes to make when talking about the big picture. I believe in longevity also, professional sports and being elected in the Hall isn't for everybody and it's extremely hard for a player to be up for election. Stats are easy to look at when determining, but there's also things that could propel a player as a solid candidate, and that's a championship. You look at guys like Jim Kelly, and Dan Marino, yes, they have 0 rings, but what they meant to their sport, regardless of numbers is just something that's undeniable. Things go hand in hand, and you can't make it into the hall with just one thing going for you. It's made for the best players that ever played the game, and how they gave it. Owens is worthy, but the things that he's known for could keep him out for longer than what people might expect.

[S2M]

Good points, Trav.....I guess we CAn agree on sports stuff. lol

Another thing. There are always 'exceptions'. Barry Sanders is my favorite athlete of all times, not just in football. 10 year career - 10 probowl selections. Stats out the wazzoo, but no championship....

[Enigma869]

Personally, I don't think STATS alone should get anyone in the HOF.

Stats alone don't get a lot of guys into the HOF. Guys like John Stallworth, Terry Bradshaw, and Troy Aikman wouldn't be anywhere near any hall of fame if anyone looked at their numbers. The difference is that they were instrumental players on very good football teams. That said, some guys have statistics that simply cannot be ignored. You can't leave a guy out of a HOF when he ranks in the top 5 in significant categories for the position he played.

SUCCESS should account for a whole hell of the vote.

If you mean team "success", I don't agree with you, AT ALL. Some guys have the misfortune of playing on very bad teams, but that doesn't mean their talent and accomplishments should be ignored, because of that! There are MANY great players who never won a championship. To use your logic, Ted Williams (probably the greatest hitter in the history of baseball) shouldn't be a Hall of Famer, because he played on some dreadful teams and never won a championship.

I equate it to the MVP in baseball.

You shouldn't, because it's a completely separate argument. Being an MVP is directly related to a team's accomplishment. Getting inducted into the HOF is an individual accomplishment and recognition for a great career!

I believe that an MVP should come rom a playoff team.

I agree, and it almost always does. I should probably modify my comments to say that probably not necessarily a playoff team, but a competitive team and a team competing for the playoffs. Sometimes a team doesn't make the playoffs just by virtue of being in a stacked division. Again, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with being inducted into HOF! Arguing that a guy isn't an MVP if his team doesn't make the playoffs is an argument I'll listen to. Saying a guy doesn't deserve to be in the HOF because he wasn't on good teams is simply moronic! Again, if I believed your logic, Barry Sanders has zero right being in the HOF, and there simply aren't words to express just how dopey that is!

Cause if not, what kind of MVP could one possibly be if he couldn't get his team to the playoffs?

See above point. You can certainly make the argument that a guy can't be that "valuable" if his team finishes in last place, because I'm fairly certain that same team would have been perfectly capable of finishing in last place without said player (Think AROD when he was with Texas and won the MVP on a last place team)!

Which is why i think that a HOF-er is someone who COUPLED with the stats, won a championship.

I seriously can't believe you're even making this argument. If you went through a list of names of guys who have been inducted into their respective sports' HOF in every sport, you would be stunned by how many truly great players never won a championship. We're talking about team sports here...not fucking golf!

I don't believe that John Riggins should be in the Hall. He led the league in TDs TWICE. Only went to ONE pro-bowl. First team All-pro ONCE. Was a fumble factory. Led the league in TDs ONCE. All in a FOURTEEN year career. But goddamn it, he was a 1 yard TD machine. You need a TD from the 5 yard line? Give it to John. And I guess that is why he is in the HALL. But wait! He has a superbowl win, and MVP. 1982. ONLY reason he is in the HOF. His stats aren't impressive, but he has a ring. Period.

Dude...you really need to brush up on your football history. You throw a lot of "facts" about Riggins out there and I don't dispute a single one of them. You forgot to mention one VERY important fact about Riggins...He's ranked in the top 15 (ALL TIME) in the history of the NFL in rushing yards and did most of that when the league played a 12 and 14 game season! I should also point out that there isn't a guy on the top 15 list who isn't, or won't be in the NFL Hall Of Fame! Again...Some numbers simply cannot be ignored and will automatically get a guy inducted! The other thing that sometimes gets lost is the competition guys went against. A guy like Larry Bird could have won 3 more championships and 3 more MVP's if he didn't have the misfortune of playing in the NBA at the same time Magic Johnson was in the league!

Terrell Owens: 5 time all pro, 6 time Probowl selection. Been a cancer for FOUR teams. No Superbowl rings. Not a HOF-er. Sorry.

I guarantee you that you'll be dead wrong about this. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that a guy who ranks in top 5 in both receiving yards and touchdowns (for a league with a VERY rich history, by the way) will automatically get in. I don't disagree with your point about his attitude. The guy is a fucking douche and has been his entire career. I just don't know how ANYONE can look at Owens' numbers and seriously believe that he isn't a Hall Of Famer! He was a dominant player throughout a big part of his career and the only guy remotely close to him in terms of talent was Randy Moss!

[S2M]

John, John Riggins never played in a league that played only 12 games...He may have only played 12 out of 14 games in any particular year, but the league hasn't played only 12 games since 1960. Riggins started in 1971.

Also, Out of 14 possible years Riggins only eclipsed the 1000 yd mark FIVE times. His stats are longevity stats, Just like Ripken's. And that don't impress me. He never ever averaged 100 Y/G, over a season. Even when he ran for over 1000 yds in a season he was only averaging 67.6 to 89.8 yards per game. He was an average back at BEST. He was great for those 2-3 yard goal line opportunities, but thats it.


I guarantee you that you'll be dead wrong about this. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that a guy who ranks in top 5 in both receiving yards and touchdowns (for a league with a VERY rich history, by the way) will automatically get in. I don't disagree with your point about his attitude. The guy is a fucking douche and has been his entire career. I just don't know how ANYONE can look at Owens' numbers and seriously believe that he isn't a Hall Of Famer! He was a dominant player throughout a big part of his career and the only guy remotely close to him in terms of talent was Randy Moss!

John, think Jim Rice. Look where his disdain for the Boston press got him....a pity HOF induction. Even though he was the best power hitter of his generation(his stats don't lie), he was blacklisted for off-field reasons....and so will TO.

[YoungJRNY]

John, John Riggins never played in a league that played only 12 games...He may have only played 12 out of 14 games in any particular year, but the league hasn't played only 12 games since 1960. Riggins started in 1971.

Also, Out of 14 possible years Riggins only eclipsed the 1000 yd mark FIVE times. His stats are longevity stats, Just like Ripken's. And that don't impress me. He never ever averaged 100 Y/G, over a season. Even when he ran for over 1000 yds in a season he was only averaging 67.6 to 89.8 yards per game. He was an average back at BEST. He was great for those 2-3 yard goal line opportunities, but thats it.


I guarantee you that you'll be dead wrong about this. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that a guy who ranks in top 5 in both receiving yards and touchdowns (for a league with a VERY rich history, by the way) will automatically get in. I don't disagree with your point about his attitude. The guy is a fucking douche and has been his entire career. I just don't know how ANYONE can look at Owens' numbers and seriously believe that he isn't a Hall Of Famer! He was a dominant player throughout a big part of his career and the only guy remotely close to him in terms of talent was Randy Moss!

John, think Jim Rice. Look where his disdain for the Boston press got him....a pity HOF induction. Even though he was the best power hitter of his generation(his stats don't lie), he was blacklisted for off-field reasons....and so will TO.

For the record, Riggins was NOT a back that carried the ball at a ruthless amount of times throughout his carreer like what you see in today's NFL. He was a bruiser and moved well for a player of his size. His numbers are outstanding considering what kind of back he was and what he offered to the Redskins back in the day. He helped them win a Super Bowl and was a Super Bowl MVP. Doesn't he hold one of the best numbers put up by a back in post-season play? His combined yards of receiving and rushing are one of the best ever in the game. He was dominant in the playoffs and his style of running provided Washington with one of the best closure's in the business at the time. Riggins is TOTALLY deserving to be in the Hall and that's EXACTLY why he's in to begin with.