Illegal Immigration in USA: WTF Is There To Argue About?

[Rockindeano]

BTW, something to keep it in perspective:

New Immigration Laws: Read to the bottom or you will miss the message…
1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
* * * * * * * *
2. All ballots will be in this nation’s language.
* * * * * * * *
3.. All government business will be conducted in our language.
* * * * * * * *
4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
* * * * * * * *
5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office
* * * * * * * *
6 Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.
* * * * * * * *
7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must20be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
* * * * * * * *
8. If foreigners come here and buy land… options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
* * * * * * * *
9.. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.
* * * * * * * *
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Too strict?……
The above laws are current immigration laws of MEXICO.

Cute, nice angle, but there is a reason Mexico loses people in droves and America can't open the doors fast enough.

Regarding the language, Both Canada and Mexico have Official languages- Canada has both French and English while Mexico has Spanish. There is no 'our' language, or 'official' American language in the USA.

Number 6 does make some sense however, especially coming from a corrupt state like Mexico.

[RedWingFan]

I have to ask you this Rip-

Do you favor the Arizona law just passed?

It doesn't go far enough, but it's a start. Mere suspicion of being an illegal should lead to automatic execution by firing squad.

I hope you're joking Matt. This bill is everything that America does NOT stand for. It legalizes racial profiling. Laugh all you want, but you know deep down this is not right.

Obama will challenge the 'legality' of this horse shit legislation. What we need is reform, not legal racism.

A sad day when the great Deano stands shoulder to shoulder with Reverend Sharpton!!!

[RedWingFan]

The country would not shut down if we got rid of illegal immigrants. There would be more jobs available for the citizens and legal immigrants.
Its very simple, kick those out who dont have a permanent residency.

And the pay for the jobs "American's won't do" would rise immensely, making them more worthwhile to Americans.

[Rhiannon]

Who cares? Let me rephrase. I don't care. Anybody who's ancestors came over on a boat immigrated illegally. Unless there are plans to put a giant bubble around the US, people will come in illegally. So why not some legislation to work out the problems we DO have because of it? Trying to stop illegal immigration is about as fruitful as shitting into a tornado.

[Rockindeano]

I have to ask you this Rip-

Do you favor the Arizona law just passed?

It doesn't go far enough, but it's a start. Mere suspicion of being an illegal should lead to automatic execution by firing squad.

I hope you're joking Matt. This bill is everything that America does NOT stand for. It legalizes racial profiling. Laugh all you want, but you know deep down this is not right.

Obama will challenge the 'legality' of this horse shit legislation. What we need is reform, not legal racism.

A sad day when the great Deano stands shoulder to shoulder with Reverend Sharpton!!!

This isn't as simple as 'White is Right' RWF. This is UNAMERICAN. This country doesn't racially profile, or at least is not supposed to. Just be glad you are not black, brown or yellow. Man, how can you stand to think the way you do regarding political issues of race? I can't comprehend it at all.

[RedWingFan]

I have to ask you this Rip-

Do you favor the Arizona law just passed?

It doesn't go far enough, but it's a start. Mere suspicion of being an illegal should lead to automatic execution by firing squad.

I hope you're joking Matt. This bill is everything that America does NOT stand for. It legalizes racial profiling. Laugh all you want, but you know deep down this is not right.

Obama will challenge the 'legality' of this horse shit legislation. What we need is reform, not legal racism.

A sad day when the great Deano stands shoulder to shoulder with Reverend Sharpton!!!

This isn't as simple as 'White is Right' RWF. This is UNAMERICAN. This country doesn't racially profile, or at least is not supposed to. Just be glad you are not black, brown or yellow. Man, how can you stand to think the way you do regarding political issues of race? I can't comprehend it at all.

Like I said....sad day.

[steveo777]

The illegal immigrant situation, as it stands, is one area where libralism fails. It sure as fuck wasn't the conservatives who gave welfare, food coupons and medical services to illegals. I can't believe there are so many things printed in spanish, as an example. Why do we go to the expense. Make these people learn the language, don't enable them to NOT learn the language. Now things like automobile and real estate purchase contracts need to be printed in spanish. Us hard working legitimate people get to pay for all this. I can't believe there is not more outrage! What the fuck is wrong with the American people these days?

A few years ago I got a DUI....shame on me. I fucked up. While I was in court with my attorney a Mexican inmate who spoke to the judge thru a spanish speaking attorney was up for arraiignment on his 4th drug trafficing charge. The guy looked like a gang banger. I'm sitting there getting a fine and this guy is getting released on his own recognisance. I even asked my attorney WTF! He said these guys are profitable. They come back over and over again and the state collects fines from them. They should take them right back over th border.

[jrnyman28]

Short of the story= This is a Federal issue, not a state issue.

But the Feds aren't, so that leaves it to the State...

[jrnyman28]

Regarding the language, Both Canada and Mexico have Official languages- Canada has both French and English while Mexico has Spanish. There is no 'our' language, or 'official' American language in the USA.

Um, ENGLISH is the official language of the USA. And it should be expected to be learned. The retail world started catering to the growing customer base and the Federal Government certainly has followed.

[Rip Rokken]

I have to ask you this Rip-

Do you favor the Arizona law just passed?

Arizona is one of the states hardest hit by the problem, so I can't really criticize anything they do to clean things up in their own yard. Back in 2004, they also took heat for Prop 200 which kept illegals from receiving taxpayer funded services. Here's a great article from 2005 that talks about this as well as their problems caused by illegal immigration:

http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage. ... ntId=51473

Good for them.

You completely avoided my question. I am not asking if AZ is suffering or not, I am asking you if you think their version of this 'law' is good?

See above.

[Rip Rokken]

Trying to stop illegal immigration is about as fruitful as shitting into a tornado.

It depends... from which end of the tornado?

[steveo777]

Deano wrote:

Short of the story= This is a Federal issue, not a state issue.

Just today I saw two stories about Utah and Ohio both considering this same kind of law. Now, If Utah and Idaho would do it, then we'd have a Mexican border to Canadian border wall and we can seal them off and route them west to Cali, Wash and Oregon.

Dude, what would be the fucking difference? I live in Washington and our city is already 65% hispanic. I'm the minority here but I can't just sit on my ass, get section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare checks, free medical and cell phone. My woman won't get a pay raise every time she punches out a kid. I can't drive a new Escalade with bling bling wheels while collecting all of the above.

^^^^Damn, that almost sounds like I'm jealous!

[Sarah]

I can't just sit on my ass, get section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare checks, free medical and cell phone. My woman won't get a pay raise every time she punches out a kid. I can't drive a new Escalade with bling bling wheels while collecting all of the above.

Yes you could. Any poor person can get those things.



Also, Dave... English is NOT the official language of the USA. There is no official language on the federal level.

[steveo777]

I can't just sit on my ass, get section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare checks, free medical and cell phone. My woman won't get a pay raise every time she punches out a kid. I can't drive a new Escalade with bling bling wheels while collecting all of the above.

Yes you could. Any poor person can get those things.



Also, Dave... English is NOT the official language of the USA. There is no official language on the federal level.

You mean all I would have to do is be poor and make the decision not to work and I could enjoy a lifestyle better than what a lot of working people have, all at the expense of other tax payers?

No thank you! I couldn't do that. I have been unemployed before in my life a few times and only once could I bring myself to even apply for unemployment.

[Sarah]

I can't just sit on my ass, get section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare checks, free medical and cell phone. My woman won't get a pay raise every time she punches out a kid. I can't drive a new Escalade with bling bling wheels while collecting all of the above.

Yes you could. Any poor person can get those things.



Also, Dave... English is NOT the official language of the USA. There is no official language on the federal level.

You mean all I would have to do is be poor and make the decision not to work and I could enjoy a lifestyle better than what a lot of working people have, all at the expense of other tax payers?

No thank you! I couldn't do that. I have been unemployed before in my life a few times and only once could I bring myself to even apply for unemployment.

Eh, I still don't buy that it's illegal immigrants who are sucking up the welfare. Illegals come to America looking for work. They're the ones standing outside Home Depot trying to get a gig. They're the ones working on the farms and filling shelves at Wal-Mart for less than minimum wage. Meanwhile there are plenty of unemployed AMERICANS who are lazy and/or feel that they are too good for a McDonalds job, so they stay on the dole.

[steveo777]

I can't just sit on my ass, get section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare checks, free medical and cell phone. My woman won't get a pay raise every time she punches out a kid. I can't drive a new Escalade with bling bling wheels while collecting all of the above.

Yes you could. Any poor person can get those things.



Also, Dave... English is NOT the official language of the USA. There is no official language on the federal level.

You mean all I would have to do is be poor and make the decision not to work and I could enjoy a lifestyle better than what a lot of working people have, all at the expense of other tax payers?

No thank you! I couldn't do that. I have been unemployed before in my life a few times and only once could I bring myself to even apply for unemployment.

Eh, I still don't buy that it's illegal immigrants who are sucking up the welfare. Illegals come to America looking for work. They're the ones standing outside Home Depot trying to get a gig. They're the ones working on the farms and filling shelves at Wal-Mart for less than minimum wage. Meanwhile there are plenty of unemployed AMERICANS who are lazy and/or feel that they are too good for a McDonalds job, so they stay on the dole.

At least the unemployed AMERICANS are here legally. I get the vibe from you that you think it's ok for illegals to receive welfare and other services. I recognize several families around here who I know for a fact are illegals. I'm a manager at a car store and have tried to do business with them and been unable to get them financed due to them not having legitimate social security numbers. I have seen some of these same people paying for groceries with food stamps. I personally know of several who do not work (by choice) and live off the system and have for years. They are here illegally too.

I have no problem with the ones who come to work and DO actually work and pay income taxes. Fuck the rest of them....kick their asses back over the border!

[ohsherrie]

As many of you know, I usually lean a little to the left on social issues. But I really don't even know where the two political parties stand on this issue, or what they are even debating about. I'd say if the majority of the people want to stop illegal immigration, then the politicians should do what they are paid to do: the will of the people. 83% is a solid majority, so I don't see what the cause for such disagreement is.

Yup, there ya go, a voice of sanity, too bad there are so few around these days.

[Rick]

As many of you know, I usually lean a little to the left on social issues. But I really don't even know where the two political parties stand on this issue, or what they are even debating about. I'd say if the majority of the people want to stop illegal immigration, then the politicians should do what they are paid to do: the will of the people. 83% is a solid majority, so I don't see what the cause for such disagreement is.

Yup, there ya go, a voice of sanity, too bad there are so few around these days.

Holy moly, hi Sherrie.

[RedWingFan]

As many of you know, I usually lean a little to the left on social issues. But I really don't even know where the two political parties stand on this issue, or what they are even debating about. I'd say if the majority of the people want to stop illegal immigration, then the politicians should do what they are paid to do: the will of the people. 83% is a solid majority, so I don't see what the cause for such disagreement is.

Yup, there ya go, a voice of sanity, too bad there are so few around these days.

Did you notice most here agreeing with him? Good to see you back. I'll email DavePc! LOL

[Rockindeano]

Regarding the language, Both Canada and Mexico have Official languages- Canada has both French and English while Mexico has Spanish. There is no 'our' language, or 'official' American language in the USA.

Um, ENGLISH is the official language of the USA. And it should be expected to be learned. The retail world started catering to the growing customer base and the Federal Government certainly has followed.

No Dave- The US has NO Official language. None whatsoever.

[Red13JoePa]

As many of you know, I usually lean a little to the left on social issues. But I really don't even know where the two political parties stand on this issue, or what they are even debating about. I'd say if the majority of the people want to stop illegal immigration, then the politicians should do what they are paid to do: the will of the people. 83% is a solid majority, so I don't see what the cause for such disagreement is.

Yup, there ya go, a voice of sanity, too bad there are so few around these days.

Did you notice most here agreeing with him? Good to see you back. I'll email DavePc! LOL

So true Scotto.
Place is overrun w/ libs and the few who dissent from the mobs here are labeled the majority
I'll retire to bedlam.

[steveo777]

Deano wrote:

Short of the story= This is a Federal issue, not a state issue.

Just today I saw two stories about Utah and Ohio both considering this same kind of law. Now, If Utah and Idaho would do it, then we'd have a Mexican border to Canadian border wall and we can seal them off and route them west to Cali, Wash and Oregon.

Dude, what would be the fucking difference? I live in Washington and our city is already 65% hispanic. I'm the minority here but I can't just sit on my ass, get section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare checks, free medical and cell phone. My woman won't get a pay raise every time she punches out a kid. I can't drive a new Escalade with bling bling wheels while collecting all of the above.

^^^^Damn, that almost sounds like I'm jealous!

That's what you get when you voted for Obama. The Fact that he wants to fight this STATE law should tell you something.

Cloward-Piven, google it.

Fuck you......this problem started way before Obama. And, maybe the best way for me to vote would have been to not vote at all. I was disgusted with the last Republican administration. I had been a republican all my life. I voted Obama as a lesser evil since the GOP has lost so much face because of the Bush gang. This far into Obama's presidency I'm not a fan of his either. I just figure we're fucked no matter what.

[Blueskies]

As many of you know, I usually lean a little to the left on social issues. But I really don't even know where the two political parties stand on this issue, or what they are even debating about. I'd say if the majority of the people want to stop illegal immigration, then the politicians should do what they are paid to do: the will of the people. 83% is a solid majority, so I don't see what the cause for such disagreement is.

Yup, there ya go, a voice of sanity, too bad there are so few around these days.

Wow! One of the folks I've missed reading! Hi Sherrie!!!

[Sarah]

I get the vibe from you that you think it's ok for illegals to receive welfare and other services.

Not at all, I just don't believe that they are the biggest problems when it comes to welfare fraud. If you have any unbiased real estimates of welfare distribution/fraud demographics that indicate otherwise, do post it. I am NOT in favor of illegal immigration but I do feel that it's unfair that you generalize illegals as being unemployed and lazy when I know most illegal Latinos are out there working the fields and factories, while lots and lots of American citizens collect government payments and have a terrible attitude about giving them up to boot.

Also I was just pointing out that you could technically get the same welfare "benefits" if you were poor too, I wasn't saying that it was right to do so.

[steveo777]

I get the vibe from you that you think it's ok for illegals to receive welfare and other services.

Not at all, I just don't believe that they are the biggest problems when it comes to welfare fraud. If you have any unbiased real estimates of welfare distribution/fraud demographics that indicate otherwise, do post it. I am NOT in favor of illegal immigration but I do feel that it's unfair that you generalize illegals as being unemployed and lazy when I know most illegal Latinos are out there working the fields and factories, while lots and lots of American citizens collect government payments and have a terrible attitude about giving them up to boot.

Also I was just pointing out that you could technically get the same welfare "benefits" if you were poor too, I wasn't saying that it was right to do so.

Unbelieveable! They're fucking illegals. I have every right to generalize about them until they have to follow the same rules I do. I'm sick of this PC...walk on eggshells, at the risk of offending someone bullshit. That is part of what's wrong in this country. We have to be tolerant of people who have not earned the right to such tolerance. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sit idly by while some bleeding heart liberal tries to justify why this situation is ok and I'm wrong for generalizing. There should be more outrage!

[Sarah]

I get the vibe from you that you think it's ok for illegals to receive welfare and other services.

Not at all, I just don't believe that they are the biggest problems when it comes to welfare fraud. If you have any unbiased real estimates of welfare distribution/fraud demographics that indicate otherwise, do post it. I am NOT in favor of illegal immigration but I do feel that it's unfair that you generalize illegals as being unemployed and lazy when I know most illegal Latinos are out there working the fields and factories, while lots and lots of American citizens collect government payments and have a terrible attitude about giving them up to boot.

Also I was just pointing out that you could technically get the same welfare "benefits" if you were poor too, I wasn't saying that it was right to do so.

Unbelieveable! They're fucking illegals. I have every right to generalize about them until they have to follow the same rules I do. I'm sick of this PC...walk on eggshells, at the risk of offending someone bullshit. That is part of what's wrong in this country. We have to be tolerant of people who have not earned the right to such tolerance. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sit idly by while some bleeding heart liberal tries to justify why this situation is ok and I'm wrong for generalizing. There should be more outrage!

I will say it again, I am not in favor of illegal immigration and I am in favor of deporting illegal aliens. All I am saying is that the statement that none of them come here to work and that they are the biggest problem in welfare fraud is a stupid generalization and is pretty much why a lot of other countries see America as a bunch of racist hicks. Argue with facts, not feelings. Come up with some real facts about the amount of illegals estimated to be on welfare and then use those numbers to prove your point, I welcome you to do so and I would use those as well since I AM NOT FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. But as it is, anyone can go to Home Depot or a factory and see with their own eyes that your accusation is flimsy at best.

Like I said originally, the real problem is the corporations who hire illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage and get away with it, making it more enticing for them to come here. These corporations are the ones stealing the jobs away from Americans by breaking labor laws and they need to be held accountable. It's the system that fails...

[mikemarrs]

The illegal immigrant situation, as it stands, is one area where libralism fails. It sure as fuck wasn't the conservatives who gave welfare, food coupons and medical services to illegals. I can't believe there are so many things printed in spanish, as an example. Why do we go to the expense. Make these people learn the language, don't enable them to NOT learn the language. Now things like automobile and real estate purchase contracts need to be printed in spanish. Us hard working legitimate people get to pay for all this. I can't believe there is not more outrage! What the fuck is wrong with the American people these days?

A few years ago I got a DUI....shame on me. I fucked up. While I was in court with my attorney a Mexican inmate who spoke to the judge thru a spanish speaking attorney was up for arraiignment on his 4th drug trafficing charge. The guy looked like a gang banger. I'm sitting there getting a fine and this guy is getting released on his own recognisance. I even asked my attorney WTF! He said these guys are profitable. They come back over and over again and the state collects fines from them. They should take them right back over th border.

a few months back i wouldn't have believed you about the ticket and the mexican dude getting off after paying a huge fine but i do now.but i had a very similar experience myself.its funny but sad as hell in a way.i had gotten a ticket an hour from where i live in cowpatty middle of nowhere.well this hispanic guy gets up in front of judge and flashes money and the judge said 360 dollars ought to do it but be warned i'm sick of seeing you and next time it will double.i'm up next and he looks at me and says how much you got.there for a second i thought i was in hazzard county.i almost laughed it was unbelievable.enough to pay my fine thank you very much.its all about money.

[SherriBerry]

A few have hit it on the nail when they pointed to money as the real issue, or perhaps more specifically, greed.

If there were not Americans willing to break the law to hire illegals and pay them a pittance for being their labourers, gardeners, nannies, maids, etc. there would not be quite the economic force pulling them to the US. Perhaps if they severely cracked down on the citizens who use these people as cheap labour, and hit them with fines and prison time for committing a felony, it would be more effective. The kicker is that these citizens are often fairly wealthy and politically connected and part of the group politicians do not want to alienate (pardon the pun). Was it Bush or Obama who was trying to nominate friends to positions of power and the background checks kept finding they were employers of illegal labourers?

Cracking down on illegals may be akin to trying to stop the drug trade by locking up the users caught with a dime bag instead of going after the traffickers and the wealthy bankers who launder the money. Those who sneak in and commit indictable offences (felonies) are another matter all together.

[Michigan Girl]

Perhaps if they severely cracked down on the citizens who use these people as cheap labour, and hit them with fines and prison time for committing a felony, it would be more effective.

I completely concur, SB, although; these laws are already in place ...they are just not exercized often enough!!

[ohsherrie]

A few have hit it on the nail when they pointed to money as the real issue, or perhaps more specifically, greed.

If there were not Americans willing to break the law to hire illegals and pay them a pittance for being their labourers, gardeners, nannies, maids, etc. there would not be quite the economic force pulling them to the US. Perhaps if they severely cracked down on the citizens who use these people as cheap labour, and hit them with fines and prison time for committing a felony, it would be more effective. The kicker is that these citizens are often fairly wealthy and politically connected and part of the group politicians do not want to alienate (pardon the pun). Was it Bush or Obama who was trying to nominate friends to positions of power and the background checks kept finding they were employers of illegal labourers?

Cracking down on illegals may be akin to trying to stop the drug trade by locking up the users caught with a dime bag instead of going after the traffickers and the wealthy bankers who launder the money. Those who sneak in and commit indictable offences (felonies) are another matter all together.

Also true. Hiring an illegal should be the same as harboring a fugitive.