Too stupid to breathe

[Rip Rokken]

Have no idea what you are talking about. Excerpt from a paper I wrote in a philosophy course. A little bit of Raymond Bradley sprinkled in, but pretty much my thoughts as well. And as you, or nobody else alive wrote the bible, but quote it ad nauseum....I didn't think it was a problem. and neither did my college professor.

If my assumptions were incorrect....maybe you could educate me. I see you couldn't respond to my latest comment either.

The four points you posted were lifted word for word and you didn't bother to post your source. If I were going to quote the Bible, I'd at least identify the source.

BTW, I'm citing myself. I hope that is clear...

I'm confused. Are you referring to the 4 points Dave took issue with or something else? They are from Raymond Bradley's "A Moral Argument for Atheism".

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... moral.html

[RedWingFan]

Have no idea what you are talking about. Excerpt from a paper I wrote in a philosophy course. A little bit of Raymond Bradley sprinkled in, but pretty much my thoughts as well. And as you, or nobody else alive wrote the bible, but quote it ad nauseum....I didn't think it was a problem. and neither did my college professor.

If my assumptions were incorrect....maybe you could educate me. I see you couldn't respond to my latest comment either.

The four points you posted were lifted word for word and you didn't bother to post your source. If I were going to quote the Bible, I'd at least identify the source.

BTW, I'm citing myself. I hope that is clear...

I'm confused. Are you referring to the 4 points Dave took issue with or something else? They are from Raymond Bradley's "A Moral Argument for Atheism".
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... moral.html

What are you confused about Rip. S2M, copied and pasted that dudes quote off his website, then he cited his own post as his own. Haven't you ever heard the phrase, "Hey, I stole it, it's MINE"?

[Melissa]

S2M quoted himself and then asked for Dave's take on that. Pretty clear if you go back and read it . And he also did give the name of where he got the 4 points from. Also pretty clear if you go back and read it.

[conversationpc]

S2M quoted himself and then asked for Dave's take on that. Pretty clear if you go back and read it . And he also did give the name of where he got the 4 points from. Also pretty clear if you go back and read it.

He only did so after I mentioned that Fact Finder wasn't the only one who could copy and paste.

[Melissa]

S2M quoted himself and then asked for Dave's take on that. Pretty clear if you go back and read it . And he also did give the name of where he got the 4 points from. Also pretty clear if you go back and read it.

He only did so after I mentioned that Fact Finder wasn't the only one who could copy and paste.

Right, and like he's the only one on here who has ever done a copy/paste and not listed the source first . When he said he was citing himself though, he was talking about what he had asked you, not the 4 points.

[RedWingFan]

S2M quoted himself and then asked for Dave's take on that. Pretty clear if you go back and read it . And he also did give the name of where he got the 4 points from. Also pretty clear if you go back and read it.

He only did so after I mentioned that Fact Finder wasn't the only one who could copy and paste.

Right, and like he's the only one on here who has ever done a copy/paste and not listed the source first . When he said he was citing himself though, he was talking about what he had asked you, not the 4 points.

Do you think S2M is a big enough boy to defend himself? What's with all the attack dog chicks on this forum?

[Saint John]

Ancient books of bullshit like the Qu'ran, the bible, the Talmud and the Veda are incredibly sophisticated ramblings meant to explain and guide, but to also, and more importantly, control, manipulate and convert.

I'm somewhere between Parfait and Behshad on this one. I went to a Catholic school for 16 years (grade school, high school and college), was a religious studies minor and realized it was all complete bullshit when I turned about 25. I believe there is a creator or creators, but don't bother examining it any closer than that. It's just nothing that seems possible to explain, comprehend or figure out, so why bother? I look back at the stories out of the bible and the story of Jesus and I'm almost embarrassed that I bought into that garbage. I mean, seriously, sending your son for our sins and all of the other illogical nonsense? Jesus got nailed to a fucking cross and couldn't do a damned thing about it. My guess is that he was simply a more intelligent David Koresh. The bible offers some excellent lessons but, as a whole, it's probably not worth wiping your ass with.

Other religions are really no different. You have to step back and throw away everything you've ever been told, and really ask yourself what are things that are self-evident truths, what are the thoughts and beliefs that you would believe had you never had any exposure to organized religion, and what life should you lead assuming there is, but more importantly that there isn't, a God. I do what I do because it's what I think should be done ... not because I want to impress God. Listen, if God had a message, a book or any other sort of wishes for anyone to live their life, he knows where to find us. Because, contrary to what anyone says, there isn't one single factual or logical instance of God talking to anyone, helping anyone, saving anyone or wishing that humans live their lives a certain "way." Not once, not ever.

We're here for a short time, folks. Find your niche, be it the silliness of religion or not, and do what makes you happy and what you think is right. My God has no demands, no wishes and no path. He gave us free will and we're here to do what we want. Some people are moral, some are evil, some seem to have it all and some never have a chance. I think how we live, love, share, cope, overcome and learn, as well as seek justice, truth and happiness defines us. No books or churches needed. Just thoughts and actions.

[conversationpc]

S2M quoted himself and then asked for Dave's take on that. Pretty clear if you go back and read it . And he also did give the name of where he got the 4 points from. Also pretty clear if you go back and read it.

He only did so after I mentioned that Fact Finder wasn't the only one who could copy and paste.

Right, and like he's the only one on here who has ever done a copy/paste and not listed the source first . When he said he was citing himself though, he was talking about what he had asked you, not the 4 points.

Yes, I already know that.

[Melissa]

S2M quoted himself and then asked for Dave's take on that. Pretty clear if you go back and read it . And he also did give the name of where he got the 4 points from. Also pretty clear if you go back and read it.

He only did so after I mentioned that Fact Finder wasn't the only one who could copy and paste.

Right, and like he's the only one on here who has ever done a copy/paste and not listed the source first . When he said he was citing himself though, he was talking about what he had asked you, not the 4 points.

Do you think S2M is a big enough boy to defend himself? What's with all the attack dog chicks on this forum?

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware anyone else on here wasn't allowed to give an opinion on how something is being seen. Pardon me, do I need to ask permission next time?

[StevePerryHair]

S2M quoted himself and then asked for Dave's take on that. Pretty clear if you go back and read it . And he also did give the name of where he got the 4 points from. Also pretty clear if you go back and read it.

He only did so after I mentioned that Fact Finder wasn't the only one who could copy and paste.

Right, and like he's the only one on here who has ever done a copy/paste and not listed the source first . When he said he was citing himself though, he was talking about what he had asked you, not the 4 points.

Do you think S2M is a big enough boy to defend himself? What's with all the attack dog chicks on this forum?

I HOPE that wasn't in reference to me the other night... my comments to you were not an "attack dog" moment. I was involved in that thread from the beginning, and I had posted a 5 paragraph essay on how I felt about the issue. I was back online when I saw your idiot view points, and I decided to chime in. Maybe it has to do with YOU. Ever think of that? Just WHO was I guarding when I pointed out your dumbassness in the football thread last weekend?

[conversationpc]

Ancient books of bullshit like the Qu'ran, the bible, the Talmud and the Veda are incredibly sophisticated ramblings meant to explain and guide, but to also, and more importantly, control, manipulate and convert.

It's not offensive to me but I am curious why the Bible is the only name of a book that you didn't capitalize here?

I'm somewhere between Parfait and Behshad on this one. I went to a Catholic school for 16 years (grade school, high school and college), was a religious studies minor and realized it was all complete bullshit when I turned about 25. I believe there is a creator or creators, but don't bother examining it any closer than that. It's just nothing that seems possible to explain, comprehend or figure out, so why bother? I look back at the stories out of the bible and the story of Jesus and I'm almost embarrassed that I bought into that garbage. I mean, seriously, sending your son for our sins and all of the other illogical nonsense? Jesus got nailed to a fucking cross and couldn't do a damned thing about it. My guess is that he was simply a more intelligent David Koresh. The bible offers some excellent lessons but, as a whole, it's probably not worth wiping your ass with.

Other religions are really no different. You have to step back and throw away everything you've ever been told, and really ask yourself what are things that are self-evident truths, what are the thoughts and beliefs that you would believe had you never had any exposure to organized religion, and what life should you lead assuming there is, but more importantly that there isn't, a God. I do what I do because it's what I think should be done ... not because I want to impress God. Listen, if God had a message, a book or any other sort of wishes for anyone to live their life, he knows where to find us. Because, contrary to what anyone says, there isn't one single factual or logical instance of God talking to anyone, helping anyone, saving anyone or wishing that humans live their lives a certain "way." Not once, not ever.

We're here for a short time, folks. Find your niche, be it the silliness of religion or not, and do what makes you happy and what you think is right. My God has no demands, no wishes and no path. He gave us free will and we're here to do what we want. Some people are moral, some are evil, some seem to have it all and some never have a chance. I think how we live, love, share, cope, overcome and learn, as well as seek justice, truth and happiness defines us. No books or churches needed. Just thoughts and actions.

I'm not going to bother responding to all points here but just describe where I'm coming from. Was Jesus a real person? Did he claim to be God? And did he rise, literally, from the dead? To me, that's what everything hinges on. The preponderance of the evidence, in my opinion, shows that he was, did, and again did.

[RedWingFan]

I was back online when I saw your idiot view points, and I decided to chime in.

I'd like to point out that my idiot viewpoints turned out to be correct and didn't include the term, "made a touchdown".

Maybe it has to do with YOU. Ever think of that?

Maybe it would have occured to me if Melissa hadn't jumping into a conversation between, CPC and S2M?

Just WHO was I guarding when I pointed out your dumb assness in the football thread last weekend?

Hell if I remember. I just remember you being baffled by the scoring system of football. "dumb assness"!!!

[S2M]

Also, I can tell by your limited responses that you are one of those pious types that believes, 'It is right(moral) because god says it is'. But if you think about it. This proves god's commands are arbitrary. What if god had said, 'you know what? Murder is moral. You people may murder'. Then what? Gods commands are strictly arbitrary....

God's commands would only be arbitrary if he doesn't have a reason to command one thing instead of another.

Actually that's not true. He doesn't need a reason, he's god. Under your rule his will makes it right and moral. He doesn't need to give you any explanation other than he wills it. Based on your own admission this is the only criteria. If tomorrow if Gandalf came down from heaven and said murder is moral; you'd have to accept it, or be labeled a hypocrite.

[StevePerryHair]

I was back online when I saw your idiot view points, and I decided to chime in.

I'd like to point out that my idiot viewpoints turned out to be correct and didn't include the term, "made a touchdown".

Maybe it has to do with YOU. Ever think of that?

Maybe it would have occured to me if Melissa hadn't jumping into a conversation between, CPC and S2M?

Just WHO was I guarding when I pointed out your dumb assness in the football thread last weekend?

Hell if I remember. I just remember you being baffled by the scoring system of football. "dumb assness"!!!

I was not BAFFLED. I didn't watch the whole game, and I thought they went into the 4th quarter without any touchdowns. That isn't the same as not knowing it's 6 points for a touchdown. YOU were saying games were over, when clearly there was enough time for it to be anyone's game. And BOTH games could have had that OTHER outcome. You are just too much of a "dumb ass" (better? ) to get that you are one.

As far as the muslim thing went. Behshad wasn't even around when I was accused of being his guard dog. Your points there were dumb ass too. The attack on the U.S. WAS political. Not everyone is a guard dog. Some people can just see your lameness and can't help but respond.

[Saint John]

It's not offensive to me but I am curious why the Bible is the only name of a book that you didn't capitalize here?

Total oversight, Dave. Just a typo. I would certainly favor that book over the dune coons that follow the Qu'ran.

Was Jesus a real person?

Yes. But there isn't a scintilla of evidence, not one iota, that he ever rose and/or ascended. And, if he did, why leave? Why not stay for a while? Why not come and tell us, too? He could go to a Journey concert, give Steve Perry his voice back, fix Arnel's diction, make Neal taller and everyone would be happy. Where is he, Dave? What happened to Mary? Why didn't she rise and ascend? Seems to me that bearing the son of God should have come with some fucking perks! And what about Joseph? Dude had to be pissed when he was told that he wasn't Jesus' biological father! I would have flipped out.

[Melissa]

Maybe it would have occured to me if Melissa hadn't jumping into a conversation between, CPC and S2M?

Um, last time I checked this was a message board? I don't see where it says anywhere in this thread that this is a conversation strictly between 2 people and no one else is allowed to just post an opinion. But hey, whatever amuses you.

[conversationpc]

Actually that's not true. He doesn't need a reason, he's god. Under your rule his will makes it right and moral. He doesn't need to give you any explanation other than he wills it. Based on your own admission this is the only criteria. If tomorrow if Gandalf came down from heaven and said murder is moral; you'd have to accept it, or be labeled a hypocrite.

I assume you're talking about this quote...

The view I hold is that an act is right if God commands or wills it, and an act is wrong if God forbids or wills against it.

That's not my view. I copied and pasted that from the link that I pasted later on that same page. I was doing so, as I said in the post that the above quote comes from to show "that Fact Finder is not the only one here who can copy and paste." While I agree with much of what that post that I initially posted said, I don't agree with the above point.

[Melissa]

I hope it's ok to say this Dan, because I wouldn't want to "jump" in your conversation with Dave there or anything and get RWF's boxers all bunched up again , but I enjoyed reading your points. Very interesting. Thanks for posting them.

[RedWingFan]

I didn't watch the whole game, and I thought they went into the 4th quarter without any touchdowns.

So you admit that when you jumped in and told me to "stick to hockey" that you were illinformed?

I watched the whole game and stated that the game was over, because of the anemic offense that was trailing wouldn't be able to come back to win. That doesn't mean that it's not possible. That is a prediction that it won't happen. And I was right.

[Saint John]

I hope it's ok to say this Dan, because I wouldn't want to "jump" in your conversation with Dave there or anything and get RWF's boxers all bunched up again , but I enjoyed reading your points. Very interesting. Thanks for posting them.

Just the musings of an immature, semi-educated dufus. Thank you, though.

[StevePerryHair]

I didn't watch the whole game, and I thought they went into the 4th quarter without any touchdowns.

So you admit that when you jumped in and told me to "stick to hockey" that you were illinformed?

I watched the whole game and stated that the game was over, because of the anemic offense that was trailing wouldn't be able to come back to win. That doesn't mean that it's not possible. That is a prediction that it won't happen. And I was right.

No. That point still stands!!! That game was NOT over and there was plenty of time for a tie. You called the Steelers game over, and they almost lost it. You just got lucky. Doesn't make you smart

[conversationpc]

Yes. But there isn't a scintilla of evidence, not one iota, that he ever rose and/or ascended.

Read "The Case for Christ" by former atheist Lee Stroebel. It tells it far better than I ever could.

And, if he did, why leave? Why not stay for a while? Why not come and tell us, too?

Most of the folks in his own time didn't believe him. Why do you think people would believe more now?

...fix Arnel's diction, make Neal taller...

Where is he, Dave? What happened to Mary? Why didn't she rise and ascend? Seems to me that bearing the son of God should have come with some fucking perks!

Mary was no better and no worse than the rest of us.

And what about Joseph? Dude had to be pissed when he was told that he wasn't Jesus' biological father!

He was. The Bible records that he intended to "quietly divorce" her.

[Saint John]

Why do you think people would believe more now?

They didn't have youtube back then, Dave. If Jesus decided to walk across Lake Michigan in July, I'm quite certain that the world would take notice.

[Rockindeano]

This thread is ridiculous. We can't change each other's minds regarding music, and you stupid shits are trying to do so with religion.


I see it like this. We have the far right Bible Thumpers in one corner, DaveCPC, Rip ....

and some wacked out anti God nuts, S2M, Parfait

Some Middle of the Roaders, people who believe, but don't push it on others, Lynn, Melissa, Natalie....

and comedic intrusionaries...Dan.

What gets me is S2M trying to tell people who find comfort in believing in God that they are full of shit. Stop right there. If Natalie for instance, believes God exists, and it makes her comfortable in doing so, then religion works for her, does it not? S2M may think she is full of shit, but if she believes it, even if it doesn't exist, it does. Got that? Then we have Rip and Dave putting on their Stryper shirts and going to War for the Lord, even when he didn't ask them to. That is just as annoying as what S2M and P do. Meanwhile people who are in the centre, and don't push either way, look the most sane.

For someone to actually participate in this thread, and take it to heart...spending hours on either extreme side, is moronic. Are you telling me religion is worth that? Hell no it isn't. religion starts wars, and kills people. Respect for religion does just the opposite. Tolerance is the best policy yet, and frankly, neither of you extreme fuckers have shown any tolerance in this thread.

I pat myself on the back, for staying the Hell out of this thread. It's the best decision I have ever made in the history of my time on this site. The only thing worse than religion, is arguing it.

[Saint John]

I pat myself on the back

I'm trying to figure out if the calluses on your hands are from jacking off or patting yourself on the back all the time. Good points, though. Except Rip is clearly agnostic.

[StevePerryHair]

If you pay attention, I didn't do much arguing in this thread. I only chimed in mainly for humor, except one post where Parfait got on my nerves. We are a cross section of society here. If people can't agree on religion in their own families, how can we ever expect worldwide tolerance. If everyone respected everyones beliefs, we wouldn't have so many wars.

[Behshad]

This thread is ridiculous. We can't change each other's minds regarding music, and you stupid shits are trying to do so with religion.


I see it like this. We have the far right Bible Thumpers in one corner, DaveCPC, Rip ....

and some wacked out anti God nuts, S2M, Parfait

Some Middle of the Roaders, people who believe, but don't push it on others, Lynn, Melissa, Natalie....

and comedic intrusionaries...Dan.

What gets me is S2M trying to tell people who find comfort in believing in God that they are full of shit. Stop right there. If Natalie for instance, believes God exists, and it makes her comfortable in doing so, then religion works for her, does it not? S2M may think she is full of shit, but if she believes it, even if it doesn't exist, it does. Got that? Then we have Rip and Dave putting on their Stryper shirts and going to War for the Lord, even when he didn't ask them to. That is just as annoying as what S2M and P do. Meanwhile people who are in the centre, and don't push either way, look the most sane.

For someone to actually participate in thisa thread, and take it to heart...spending hours on either extreme side, is moronic. Are you telling me religion is worth that? Hell no it isn't. religion starts wars, and kills people. Respect for religion does just the opposite. Tolerance is the best policy yet, and frankly, neither of you extreme fuckers have shown any tolerance in this thread.

I pat myself on the back, for staying the hell out of this thread. It's the best decision I have ever made in the history of my time on this site. The only thing worse than religion, is arguing it.

I don't think Rip is a Bible Thumper

[Behshad]

I pat myself on the back

I'm trying to figure out if the calluses on your hands are from jacking off or patting yourself on the back all the time. Good points, though. Except Rip is clearly agnostic.

I'm trying to figure out how YOU know about the calluses on his hands. Did he "pat you on the back" ?!

[StevePerryHair]

I think Dean missed some of the more long winded posts maybe?

[StevePerryHair]

I pat myself on the back

I'm trying to figure out if the calluses on your hands are from jacking off or patting yourself on the back all the time. Good points, though. Except Rip is clearly agnostic.

I'm trying to figure out how YOU know about the calluses on his hands. Did he "pat you on the back" ?!

Guys are always patting Dan