Ehwmatt wrote:JrnyScarab wrote:Ehwmatt wrote:JrnyScarab wrote:conversationpc wrote:JrnyScarab wrote:I don't believe for a minute that there is a country that doesn't have some form of socialism mixed with capitalism. Socialism isn't entirely evil nor is Capitalism but they both definitely have their flaws.
Actually, most of what Obama has done is more fascist in nature than socialism.
"Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, comprises a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology[1][2][3][4] and a corporatist economic ideology developed in Italy.[5] Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak"
Sounds more like what the Repubs have been doing. But I admit, the Dems are just as beholden to Corporatism as the Repubs.
What the fuck do you people think we would do without the "big, bad, evil corporations?"
Who will fund the government? Pay your paycheck? Provide jobs? Fund innovation, ingenuity and other useful social activity?
Just because there have been some unscrupulous scumbag executives who made millions/billions while running their companies into the ground and screwing their employees over does not make all business an evil empire. I understand the root of the frustration, but I don't understand the extent of the rhetoric.
I'm really curious what you people want or envision when you spew this anti-corporate, anti-profit crap. Do you want everyone to live off a grand a month from a government (that would very quickly be insolvent there)? All non-profit companies? (Someone has to make a profit to fund the non-profits, genius)? All government jobs in every sector of industry? What?
No problem with profits whatsoever. BUT, if business does not reward workers with decent enough wages we end up where we are at. People's borrowing capacity has hit the wall and now the economy almost collapsed. Just like the roaring 20's lead to the Great Depression. Too much wealth concentrated at the top. Sorry, it's a fact. That's just what happens. Henry Ford gave his employees big wage increases because he realized they wouldn't be able to buy his cars it they didn't have enough money.
I understand the emotional appeal and to some extent it's true - there aren't steel/factory/mining etc. type jobs anymore that allow Joe High School to go straight to work and very comfortably raise a family. That's reality, it's a service/knowledge economy now. That will NEVER change, no matter how much you try and tax the businesses or "redistribute the wealth." That's the reality of the world.
Not everyone is entitled to six figure salaries. Not every one is entitled to buy a new car every 80,000 miles. In fact, no one is entitled to anything.
Every one should live within his means, and unfortunately a lot of people don't want/know how to do that. Henry Ford couldn't have given his employees wage increases without a strong bottom line. Take that away from Ford in confiscatory tax rates, burdensome regulations, and whatever else people want to see done (a lot want companies shut down, no?), and no one's better off and all the "downtrodden" (a lot of them in debt by their own fault and trigger happy spending habits, to be sure) are much worse off.
It's like the health care debate here in Ohio. The health care industry is the one thing keeping this state and my city (Cleveland) afloat. You pass all the garbage Obama wants to pass, whoaaaa boy let me tell you how many people will be out of jobs and how much worse the state and city bottom lines will be. This whole argument against corporations making "excess profits" doesn't consider the consequences of its propositions. Yeah, things may be unequal, things are done that are unethical, but hey, life isn't fair. I'm patently against a scumbag executive screwing a company into the ground and running. I'm not against a talented executive who worked his ass off making 6x the salary of a clerical worker who has been content to punch the clock from 9-4:30 every day of his career. Sorry.
I know guys who make $35K a year who don't owe anyone a penny. I also know people who make well into the six figures who are using CCs to pay off other CCs and owe every Tom Dick and Harry a chunk of change. There are problems with business today, that's obvious, but there are far bigger problems with people not being wise with their own lives and finances.
Generally, the people I know who are in good shape are those who sacrificed - people who didn't buy their first new car til well into their 30s, limited their vacation expenditures (and still do), people who started 529 college plans for their kids the day they were born, people who purchased insurance instead of spending hundreds a month on cigarettes and booze, people who wait til they can pay cash for expensive appliances/pleasures etc. (or don't buy it at all...).... perhaps most crucially, people who WAITED to have kids til they could afford them... the list could go on.
There will never be perfect equitable distribution of wealth, thankfully. Can't imagine anything worse.
You are exactly right about the Healthcare industry. I work for one of the biggest Healthcare product manufacturers/distributors in the country. They have already sat the employees down and told them what has to happen (cutting back wise) for them to still have a job (maybe) if the Obama plan comes to fruition. So far this means...no more OT,vacation freezes,no new hires for non customer service positions (could be any hiring period, if not enough money is saved),no hiring from temp agencies,limited to (possibly none) merit raises,no travel to out of state customer locations,cutting back on office supplies etc.
