FEDERAL JUDGE knocks down PRO 8 in CA...

[Saint John]

Well, even though I don't agree with Dan completely on this issue.... I have a hard time believing he'd call ME a C-face....

You are correct for several reasons, Lynn! 1) You don't ever act like one. 2) Too much respect for you. 3) Mean people scare me!

[artist4perry]

This thread is fucking EPIC! We got ourselves a border skirmish. As you were soldiers.....

Awesome...........specially love the dead horse. Parfait............killing geneticly inferior people........handycapped? Sick?.......Who used to think that? I know Hitler! My husband spends his life caring for Special needs people. Nothing gives him more joy. Carry on..............

[StevePerryHair]

Well, even though I don't agree with Dan completely on this issue.... I have a hard time believing he'd call ME a C-face....

You are correct for several reasons, Lynn! 1) You don't ever act like one. 2) Too much respect for you. 3) Mean people scare me!

:lol:
thanks dan! And I'm always nice....until it's time to not be nice

[BobbyinTN]

Bobby, what about the gay bigots who blocked churches, destroyed church property, harassed pro-Prop 8 voters, etc? Did you speak out about them like you have here about the others?

They were wrong, but when a group of people are demonized and hated, isn't it understandable just a little bit how they might be ticked off enough to get violent? Not approving of it, just saying.

No, it's not understandable. Violence is never understandable and the worst way to try to fight for a cause. It makes them no better than those nuts who kill abortion doctors. Violence is NEVER the answer for getting rights of any kind and that is why people are having a hard time sympathizing with you. Because you can understand this kind of behavior and you think anger and hate back is the answer. Breaking the law and hurting people is NEVER okay no matter what the reasons behind it.

So self defense isn't "understandable"? All I'm saying is with the riots that happened, and the mentality of people like some see on here pushing their hateful bigoted ways, it is easy to understand how someone can become so angry they want to lash out.

Contrary to what you all think, I'm calm and collected when reading this posts, I just don't play the bullshit line of political correctness that some of you seem to need.

I tell it like it is and that's just the way I am and will always be.

[BobbyinTN]

Moral disapproval is an improper basis for denying rights to gay men and lesbians and that the evidence shows conclusively Prop 8 enacts without reason a private moral view that same sex couples are inferior.--- Vaughn Walker--Chief Judge, U.S. District Court, Northern District of CA

One thing I haven't heard much talk about is this judge. Doesn't it seem a little out of order to anyone that this judge, who was already well-known to be gay, ruled in favor of gays on an issue that, in my opinion, he should have recused himself from? To me, that would be like a well-known Christian judge ruling just the opposite on this issue.

Then that would mean a heterosexual judge could never rule on a heterosexual issue.

Bobby, I know you're smarter than that. This is a contentious issue involving the gay community. The judge being gay himself, would be under lots of pressure, admitted or otherwise, to rule a certain way. I'm not saying he did but that's why judges recuse themselves from ruling on certain cases. In this instance, there is a conflict of interests. This kind of case is an aberration, so to speak. There are NO cases where heterosexuals are suing for "equal" rights.

Take me, for example. I'm a big dude. If I were a judge and let's say a case came before me where a fat guy was suing an airline for charging him for an extra seat. It would be prudent for me to recuse myself from that case simply because I'm a big guy myself. It wouldn't be proper for me to issue a ruling on that case.

Now, in certain cases, you obviously can't pick and choose a judge for certain kinds of cases. Divorce, for instance...There are probably way too many judges who've been divorced themselves to shop around for one that hasn't been divorced.

In this case, in my opinion, it's just too controversial an issue for a judge to rule on something they could have a vested interest in. What would you think if this goes to the Supreme Court, is overturned, and you find out that one of the justices voting to overturn this decision has supported, for instance, the move for a Constitutional amendment to codify one man and one woman into law as the definition of marriage?

Look man, you’re not seeing the whole picture.

If Judge Walker can’t rule on a case involving homosexual rights, then where does it stop?

Can a woman judge rule on abortion?

Better yet, can a pro-life judge rule on abortion?

Can a male judge that’s been divorced rule on a case about divorce?

Can a vegetarian judge rule in a case against PETA?

Sorry, the judge is a conservative. He was gonna be appointed by Ronald Reagan but Reagan thought he was too conservative. That should be a republicans wet dream.

By your logic, the entire Supreme Court would have to recues themselves each time a partisan case came before them.

We have judges for a reason and that reason was perfectly displayed when Judge Vaughn Walker decided that treated anyone unfairly under the law was discriminatory and unconstitutional, that he happens to be a homosexual has nothing to do with what is just and right.

[StevePerryHair]

Bobby, what about the gay bigots who blocked churches, destroyed church property, harassed pro-Prop 8 voters, etc? Did you speak out about them like you have here about the others?

They were wrong, but when a group of people are demonized and hated, isn't it understandable just a little bit how they might be ticked off enough to get violent? Not approving of it, just saying.

No, it's not understandable. Violence is never understandable and the worst way to try to fight for a cause. It makes them no better than those nuts who kill abortion doctors. Violence is NEVER the answer for getting rights of any kind and that is why people are having a hard time sympathizing with you. Because you can understand this kind of behavior and you think anger and hate back is the answer. Breaking the law and hurting people is NEVER okay no matter what the reasons behind it.

So self defense isn't "understandable"? All I'm saying is with the riots that happened, and the mentality of people like some see on here pushing their hateful bigoted ways, it is easy to understand how someone can become so angry they want to lash out. Contrary to what you all think, I'm calm and collected when reading this posts, I just don't play the bullshit line of political correctness that some of you seem to need.
I tell it like it is and that's just the way I am and will always be.

this is complete bull for you to say, sorry. They do not do these violent things in self defense. How can you even compare the two?? I am talking about breaking the law by damaging property and hurting people. It is NEVER understandable. It is wrong no matter what way you want to spin it for your gay brothers. Wow, you will even stick up for criminals. Are you that blind to the cause? Sorry. I am not a proponent for abortion, but I can certainly see how sick it is when people commit violent acts to try to stop it. That is just an example I can relate to. It's never ok. And it does more to hurt causes than to help. Unreal you can understand violent behavior.

[BobbyinTN]

Everything possible and still make a living and have a life. And please, don't underestimate our country, it's still great and ready for anything that comes its way. Mayberry was fiction and I'd bet you 5000 dollars there's lots more homosexuals in your town than you could possibly imagine and maybe the fear of bigots is what keeps them from presenting themselves.

Anything specific you care to share? Are you a member of any political organization that is fighting for the right to marry in Tennessee?

I disagree, I don't think our country is ready for this yet, that's why there is so much passionate disagreement on the topic. Mayberry may have been fiction, but the ideals of the people of Mayberry were true on the show and are still true today. I can promise you that - I have worked with LOTS of Aunt Bea's in the past 10 years. Most of those little old ladies and men don't harbor hate feelings, they just cannot comprehend your lifestyle and therefore cannot accept it. I think you are correct that there are more gay/lesbian people than we know about for exactly the reason you express. The funny thing is that the ones that I know that are openly gay now... I knew they were gay then (20 or so years ago when I was in school). In all honesty, although we knew it back then, it would've been much more difficult to accept then because of society's view of homosexuality.

I don't know what part of Tennessee you're from, but my brother-in-law lives in eastern TN and although we haven't discussed it, I'm certain that the residents in his hometown are just like the residents in mine. Smaller towns are more conservative than bigger cities. They cling to their 'guns and religion' and aren't as accepting of anything they think goes against their religious beliefs. What is unacceptable to you (their views) is the norm for them, just as what is normal for you is unacceptable for them.

I wish you luck, I just honestly believe you're a few years away from what you desire.

You know I’m a singer, right? I perform free for many fund raisers, I donate and my partner and I belong to many organizations that are actively involved with freedom to marry.

I won’t go into more detail because that’s just a little too personal.

I come from a small town. I’d bet my small town is probably smaller than most any of you have been in. To this day, the population is only 7000. I know about small town people and I think you do them an injustice when you think they have closed minds and closed hearts.

There’s no one from my home town that doesn’t know who I am and that I’m gay. Yes, it’s that small, and guess what, old ladies and old men and the young ladies and the young men who whisper in my ear, “we support you” or “we don’t know what all the fuss is about” are amazing and surprise me constantly.


No, the small town might have their ultra conservatives who are still lost in 1950, but it’s not as bad as the picture you paint and luckily we live in a representative republic where the minority can never be subject to the tyranny of the majority.


I’m 44 years old. A federal amendment to allow homosexuals to marry will happen in my lifetime. Remember, most people never thought we’d have a Black President in our lifetime, and look at us now.

[conversationpc]

Sorry, the judge is a conservative. He was gonna be appointed by Ronald Reagan but Reagan thought he was too conservative. That should be a republicans wet dream.

I don't give a rip if he's conservative or not.

By your logic, the entire Supreme Court would have to recues themselves each time a partisan case came before them.

We have judges for a reason and that reason was perfectly displayed when Judge Vaughn Walker decided that treated anyone unfairly under the law was discriminatory and unconstitutional, that he happens to be a homosexual has nothing to do with what is just and right.

I'd be suspicious if I found out any judge might have had reason to be biased against one side or the other in any kind of case. Sorry but you're wrong on this one.

[Behshad]

Bobby,
after readin all your rants and bs in this thread , I have come to one conclustion :

You represent and defend the homosexual community exactly the same way Jesse Jackson represents and defends black people. Think about it !

[Archetype]

Bring on the gayidity.

[Saint John]

The fact remains, as Matt said, giving gays the exact same rights as traditionally married couples through an openly recognized "civil union" will never be enough. They want it legally defined as "marriage" because, whether they choose to admit it or not, they want to suppress the truth and hide the fact that their behavior, for whatever reason(s), simply is not normal or rational. And that's what makes their hysteria over this so laughable. What's next ... a congressional request to implant female reproductive parts into the "bitch" of the relationship's asshole to fake your way through that, too?

[Behshad]

The fact remains, as Matt said, giving gays the exact same rights as traditionally married couples through an openly recognized "civil union" will never be enough. They want it legally defined as "marriage" because, whether they choose to admit it or not, they want to suppress the truth and hide the fact that their behavior, for whatever reason(s), simply is not normal or rational. And that's what makes their hysteria over this so laughable. What's next ... a congressional request to implant female reproductive parts into the "bitch" of the relationship's asshole to fake your way through that, too?

Im sure Bobby is very open to that idea {if you know wha I mean }

[parfait]

The fact remains, as Matt said, giving gays the exact same rights as traditionally married couples through an openly recognized "civil union" will never be enough. They want it legally defined as "marriage" because, whether they choose to admit it or not, they want to suppress the truth and hide the fact that their behavior, for whatever reason(s), simply is not normal or rational. And that's what makes their hysteria over this so laughable. What's next ... a congressional request to implant female reproductive parts into the "bitch" of the relationship's asshole to fake your way through that, too?

That's not a fact. It's a biased personal opinion.

Dude, get your act together. You sound like a whiny kid who just got his Pokemon cards stolen. If you want to debate this on a factual, scientific level, that's fine or even on a philosophical Kant-ish level - that's cool too. But this shit has just turned into a tirade of a pissed off turdburglar with a big case of kainotophobia.

- And the anal jokes has to stop. I bet every god damn one of you got some sort of fetish or sexual fantasy that far trumps someone who likes to get their ass plowed - it's just sex people; get over your hypocritical (!) selfs.

[Behshad]

The fact remains, as Matt said, giving gays the exact same rights as traditionally married couples through an openly recognized "civil union" will never be enough. They want it legally defined as "marriage" because, whether they choose to admit it or not, they want to suppress the truth and hide the fact that their behavior, for whatever reason(s), simply is not normal or rational. And that's what makes their hysteria over this so laughable. What's next ... a congressional request to implant female reproductive parts into the "bitch" of the relationship's asshole to fake your way through that, too?

That's not a fact. It's a biased personal opinion.

Dude, get your act together. You sound like a whiny kid who just got his Pokemon cards stolen. If you want to debate this on a factual, scientific level, that's fine or even on a philosophical Kant-ish level - that's cool too. But this shit has just turned into a tirade of a pissed off turdburglar with a big case of kainotophobia.

Look who's talking.

Why dont you practice what you preach!? Instead of complaining and wasting your time feedin us your BS, go work out and eat a carrot or something

[BobbyinTN]

Sorry, the judge is a conservative. He was gonna be appointed by Ronald Reagan but Reagan thought he was too conservative. That should be a republicans wet dream.

I don't give a rip if he's conservative or not.

By your logic, the entire Supreme Court would have to recues themselves each time a partisan case came before them.

We have judges for a reason and that reason was perfectly displayed when Judge Vaughn Walker decided that treated anyone unfairly under the law was discriminatory and unconstitutional, that he happens to be a homosexual has nothing to do with what is just and right.

I'd be suspicious if I found out any judge might have had reason to be biased against one side or the other in any kind of case. Sorry but you're wrong on this one.

No, I'm not wrong.

The man judged the case fairly.

Think of it like this, should the republican judges on the SCOTUS have recused themselves when it came time to rule in the Bush v. Gore presidency?

[StevePerryHair]

What's a hippocrat??? Was that another fat American slam?

[BobbyinTN]

The fact remains, as Matt said, giving gays the exact same rights as traditionally married couples through an openly recognized "civil union" will never be enough. They want it legally defined as "marriage" because, whether they choose to admit it or not, they want to suppress the truth and hide the fact that their behavior, for whatever reason(s), simply is not normal or rational. And that's what makes their hysteria over this so laughable. What's next ... a congressional request to implant female reproductive parts into the "bitch" of the relationship's asshole to fake your way through that, too?

That's not a fact. It's a biased personal opinion.

Dude, get your act together. You sound like a whiny kid who just got his Pokemon cards stolen. If you want to debate this on a factual, scientific level, that's fine or even on a philosophical Kant-ish level - that's cool too. But this shit has just turned into a tirade of a pissed off turdburglar with a big case of kainotophobia.

- And the anal jokes has to stop. I bet every god damn one of you got some sort of fetish or sexual fantasy that far trumps someone who likes to get their ass plowed - it's just sex people; get over your hippocratic selfs.

You’re exactly right. They do tend to confuse their opinions with fact. It’s an obvious a birth defect on their part, they can’t discern reality from their own imagination.

And you’re also right about the obsession with anal sex, VERY Freudian thing happening there.

[RedWingFan]

Sorry, the judge is a conservative. He was gonna be appointed by Ronald Reagan but Reagan thought he was too conservative. That should be a republicans wet dream.

I don't give a rip if he's conservative or not.

By your logic, the entire Supreme Court would have to recues themselves each time a partisan case came before them.
We have judges for a reason and that reason was perfectly displayed when Judge Vaughn Walker decided that treated anyone unfairly under the law was discriminatory and unconstitutional, that he happens to be a homosexual has nothing to do with what is just and right.

I'd be suspicious if I found out any judge might have had reason to be biased against one side or the other in any kind of case. Sorry but you're wrong on this one.

No, I'm not wrong.
The man judged the case fairly.
Think of it like this, should the republican judges on the SCOTUS have recused themselves when it came time to rule in the Bush v. Gore presidency?

You really don't know what you're talking about. Judges aren't supposed to be "fair". They're supposed to be Constitutional. Judges aren't republican or democrat....they're either originalists or activists. This clown is an activist. That's why he wanted cameras in the courtroom. To show the world this wonderful "action" he just took......outside of the Constitution.

[BobbyinTN]

Sorry, the judge is a conservative. He was gonna be appointed by Ronald Reagan but Reagan thought he was too conservative. That should be a republicans wet dream.

I don't give a rip if he's conservative or not.

By your logic, the entire Supreme Court would have to recues themselves each time a partisan case came before them.
We have judges for a reason and that reason was perfectly displayed when Judge Vaughn Walker decided that treated anyone unfairly under the law was discriminatory and unconstitutional, that he happens to be a homosexual has nothing to do with what is just and right.

I'd be suspicious if I found out any judge might have had reason to be biased against one side or the other in any kind of case. Sorry but you're wrong on this one.

No, I'm not wrong.
The man judged the case fairly.
Think of it like this, should the republican judges on the SCOTUS have recused themselves when it came time to rule in the Bush v. Gore presidency?

You really don't know what you're talking about. Judges aren't supposed to be "fair". They're supposed to be Constitutional. Judges aren't republican or democrat....they're either originalists or activists. This clown is an activist. That's why he wanted cameras in the courtroom. To show the world this wonderful "action" he just took......outside of the Constitution.

ROTFLMFAO!! "originalists" or "activists"! Really, then why did republicans bitch and moan when Sotomayor was appointed or more recently Kagan? Why do Presidents even bother to appoint Supreme Court Justices. Face it guys, the only time you get pissed off and call a judge an "activist" is when they rule the opposite of what you think they should rule. Judges are there to make sure every is treated equally and fairly and that judge was sticking to the Constitution. If you don't realize that, reread it.

[Behshad]

. I bet every god damn one of you got some sort of fetish or sexual fantasy .

Whats yours ?

And none of us wants to take that to court and legalize it,

[Behshad]

Sorry, the judge is a conservative. He was gonna be appointed by Ronald Reagan but Reagan thought he was too conservative. That should be a republicans wet dream.

I don't give a rip if he's conservative or not.

By your logic, the entire Supreme Court would have to recues themselves each time a partisan case came before them.
We have judges for a reason and that reason was perfectly displayed when Judge Vaughn Walker decided that treated anyone unfairly under the law was discriminatory and unconstitutional, that he happens to be a homosexual has nothing to do with what is just and right.

I'd be suspicious if I found out any judge might have had reason to be biased against one side or the other in any kind of case. Sorry but you're wrong on this one.

No, I'm not wrong.
The man judged the case fairly.
Think of it like this, should the republican judges on the SCOTUS have recused themselves when it came time to rule in the Bush v. Gore presidency?

You really don't know what you're talking about. Judges aren't supposed to be "fair". They're supposed to be Constitutional. Judges aren't republican or democrat....they're either originalists or activists. This clown is an activist. That's why he wanted cameras in the courtroom. To show the world this wonderful "action" he just took......outside of the Constitution.

ROTFLMFAO!! "originalists" or "activists"! Really, then why did republicans bitch and moan when Sotomayor was appointed or more recently Kagan? Why do Presidents even bother to appoint Supreme Court Justices. Face it guys, the only time you get pissed off is when they rule the opposite of what you think they should rule. Judges are there to make sure every is treated equally and fairly and that judge was sticking to the Constitution. If you don't realize that, reread it.

You refer to yourself as " guys" ?

[Babyblue]

Enough already i believe this is 12 pgs now.We all believe the way we want & most will not change.So way keep up with this. We are all good people here.And i know some will i hate this or that person for whatever reason.Well life is to damn short.Just live it & enjoy while ya can.I work with a kid that is 20 & he is gay.So what he is a sweetie.I don't care who or what you are but the hate thing has to stop.

[Behshad]

Enough already i believe this is 12 pgs now.We all believe the way we want & most will not change.So way keep up with this. We are all good people here.And i know some will i hate this or that person for whatever reason.Well life is to damn short.Just live it & enjoy while ya can.I work with a kid that is 20 & he is gay.So what he is a sweetie.I don't care who or what you are but the hate thing has to stop.

The problem with Bobby isnt his homosexuality. Its his HATE.

[Babyblue]

Enough already i believe this is 12 pgs now.We all believe the way we want & most will not change.So way keep up with this. We are all good people here.And i know some will i hate this or that person for whatever reason.Well life is to damn short.Just live it & enjoy while ya can.I work with a kid that is 20 & he is gay.So what he is a sweetie.I don't care who or what you are but the hate thing has to stop.

The problem with Bobby isnt his homosexuality. Its his HATE.

I agree with you.But stop & think we all hate at times as well.I try not to as it does not get you anywhere.If you think about it SJ & Frenchie are right but we all are to some degree

OK i love Adam Lambert, his music rocks. We all know he he is gay but he does not say anything.Becaues he does not give a rats ass what we think.So Bobby, i know you are a good person but please stop with the hate.It will kill you in the end babe.

[BobbyinTN]

Enough already i believe this is 12 pgs now.We all believe the way we want & most will not change.So way keep up with this. We are all good people here.And i know some will i hate this or that person for whatever reason.Well life is to damn short.Just live it & enjoy while ya can.I work with a kid that is 20 & he is gay.So what he is a sweetie.I don't care who or what you are but the hate thing has to stop.

The problem with Bobby isnt his homosexuality. Its his HATE.

I agree with you.But stop & think we all hate at times as well.I try not to as it does not get you anywhere.If you think about it SJ & Frenchie are right but we all are to some degree

OK i love Adam Lambert, his music rocks. We all know he he is gay but he does not say anything.Becaues he does not give a rats ass what we think.So Bobby, i know you are a good person but please stop with the hate.It will kill you in the end babe.

Sweetie, it's just debate and honestly, I'm only responding in kind to those who would rather see me a second class citizen so they could be happy. Really. Why aren't you pointing out their hatred?

[Babyblue]

Enough already i believe this is 12 pgs now.We all believe the way we want & most will not change.So way keep up with this. We are all good people here.And i know some will i hate this or that person for whatever reason.Well life is to damn short.Just live it & enjoy while ya can.I work with a kid that is 20 & he is gay.So what he is a sweetie.I don't care who or what you are but the hate thing has to stop.

The problem with Bobby isnt his homosexuality. Its his HATE.

I agree with you.But stop & think we all hate at times as well.I try not to as it does not get you anywhere.If you think about it SJ & Frenchie are right but we all are to some degree

OK i love Adam Lambert, his music rocks. We all know he he is gay but he does not say anything.Becaues he does not give a rats ass what we think.So Bobby, i know you are a good person but please stop with the hate.It will kill you in the end babe.

Sweetie, it's just debate and honestly, I'm only responding in kind to those who would rather see me a second class citizen so they could be happy. Really. Why aren't you pointing out their hatred?

Sugar, it goes both ways.SJ, can be a pain in the ass.lol but he is a cool guy. Everyone here is so cool.I have more fun here than anywhere i go on the net.Yes i know its a debate.But it will not change cause we all are going to feel the way we do.

[BobbyinTN]

It doesn't mean we have to tolerate it and it doesn't mean I have to see the bigoted bullshit about gays everytime I come to this forum.

[Saint John]

It doesn't mean we have to tolerate it and it doesn't mean I have to see the bigoted bullshit about gays everytime I come to this forum.

All bullshit aside, and I do post some shit for shock value that I probably shouldn't (except to Natalie ... fuck her), I would have no problem sitting down, buying you a beer and debating, civilly, in person ... or just having a beer and bashing Europeans.

[Babyblue]

It doesn't mean we have to tolerate it and it doesn't mean I have to see the bigoted bullshit about gays everytime I come to this forum.

AMEN!!!!!!!

[Behshad]

It doesn't mean we have to tolerate it and it doesn't mean I have to see the bigoted bullshit about gays everytime I come to this forum.

Oh for fucks sake, have some sense of humor, you douche ,,,,
I tolerate any racial attacks,,, if people call me terrorist and I can tolerate it, why can you handle the MR abuse ? ,,,, no one is gonna treat you any special just cause you prefer to have a male partner,,, so either have a sense of humor and enjoy us pickin on you, or simply stay the fuck away from topics that make you clench