Religion & Morality

[Gideon]

This is rich...The forum's resident numbskull attempting to school someone of supposed lesser intelligence. I've seen it all now.

I don't agree with his seeming allegiance to the dogmatic and demonstrably false notion that science is infallible or all encompassing (which is ironic, given his position on religion), but Parfait is definitely bright.

I actually enjoy reading his posts very much.

[conversationpc]

This is rich...The forum's resident numbskull attempting to school someone of supposed lesser intelligence. I've seen it all now.

I don't agree with his seeming allegiance to the dogmatic and demonstrably false notion that science is infallible or all encompassing (which is ironic, given his position on religion), but Parfait is definitely bright.

I actually enjoy reading his posts very much.

{through gritted teeth...}Play along will ya!

[Gideon]

This is rich...The forum's resident numbskull attempting to school someone of supposed lesser intelligence. I've seen it all now.

I don't agree with his seeming allegiance to the dogmatic and demonstrably false notion that science is infallible or all encompassing (which is ironic, given his position on religion), but Parfait is definitely bright.

I actually enjoy reading his posts very much.

{through gritted teeth...}Play along will ya!

I can't, I can't. I've gotta keep things fair and lively.

[conversationpc]

Cut the bullshit. Creationism was created by the church, to give some proof of God's creation. However; there's not one, not one piece of evidence pointing in creationism's way. Ask any scientists and they'll all tell you the same thing; it's nonsense, which, though given the chance, have never been able to produce any evidence through the scientific method. A scientific theory (way different from the colloquial use of the word theory) isn't an educated guess. The universe is expanding in an increasing rate, so your propulsive energy hypothesis doesn't work. Not to mention that the big bang wasn't an bang or explosion. Time was created in the Time Zero - the singularity of the Big Bang, so there was nothing before it. So was 3-dimensional space. This is all predicted with what is probably the 20th century's greatest and most accurate theory: the theory of general relativity.

We don't know anything yet, but science continues to do major breakthroughs every day. No rational person would then say; "since science can't answer anything, then I'll just believe in something which isn't supported by shit. Pass the Bible!" The religious do however suspend reason and then tries to defend it with pseudo-scientific ignorant mumbo jumbo.

I really should start charging for these online reason and science 101-classes.

Have you ever studied how the various strands of DNA are specifically ordered and numbered? Ever see how "machines" do the work within cells in such a fashion that it almost looks like a factory that someone could have built? Then you've got protein folding, addressing, etc. It's mind-blowing stuff and, to me, strong evidence of an intelligent designer. I find it requires much more faith to believe it somehow came about by accident.

[Rick]

I agree Gideon, siding with creationism doesn't mean someone has an agenda. Unless that agenda is truth seeking. People just want to know how we got here and why we're here. Science can't fully explain either. Their theories are nothing more than educated guesses. Nobody was here when the big bang happened to know whether that's what happened or not. It's a plausibility, but it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. One being, what was there before the big bang? Maybe it's a repetitive event. Maybe there have been uncountable big bangs. The bang happens and everything disperses until it's propulsive energy becomes zero and then it all begins to collapse back the point it started from and it starts over. Maybe there are dimensions that the human senses can't detect. Maybe there are explanations all around us that we are unable to sense because of that. But until someone throws down a blue print with all of the answers, it's ridiculous to cast aspersions on someone else because they don't believe what you do.

Cut the bullshit. Creationism was created by the church, to give some proof of God's creation. However; there's not one, not one piece of evidence pointing in creationism's way. Ask any scientists and they'll all tell you the same thing; it's nonsense, which, though given the chance, have never been able to produce any evidence through the scientific method. A scientific theory (way different from the colloquial use of the word theory) isn't an educated guess. The universe is expanding in an increasing rate, so your propulsive energy hypothesis doesn't work. Not to mention that the big bang wasn't an bang or explosion. Time was created in the Time Zero - the singularity of the Big Bang, so there was nothing before it. So was 3-dimensional space. This is all predicted with what is probably the 20th century's greatest and most accurate theory: the theory of general relativity.

We don't know anything yet, but science continues to do major breakthroughs every day. No rational person would then say; "since science can't answer anything, then I'll just believe in something which isn't supported by shit. Pass the Bible!" The religious do however suspend reason and then tries to defend it with pseudo-scientific ignorant mumbo jumbo.

I really should start charging for these online reason and science 101-classes.

Send me a bill.

Nothing starts off as fast as it's going to go after an explosion. So it could still be accelerating. See, this is just shit I think up on the spot. These scientists go about, century after century, studying their data, and have no better explanation than I do. Now, they assume, there was no explosion afterall, but it was a big bang. Makes a lot of sense.

And there's example number 1 of something humans can't comprehend. Nothingness. You can't tell a human being that there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. There had to be something to cause it.

[Don]

I agree Gideon, siding with creationism doesn't mean someone has an agenda. Unless that agenda is truth seeking. People just want to know how we got here and why we're here. Science can't fully explain either. Their theories are nothing more than educated guesses. Nobody was here when the big bang happened to know whether that's what happened or not. It's a plausibility, but it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. One being, what was there before the big bang? Maybe it's a repetitive event. Maybe there have been uncountable big bangs. The bang happens and everything disperses until it's propulsive energy becomes zero and then it all begins to collapse back the point it started from and it starts over. Maybe there are dimensions that the human senses can't detect. Maybe there are explanations all around us that we are unable to sense because of that. But until someone throws down a blue print with all of the answers, it's ridiculous to cast aspersions on someone else because they don't believe what you do.

Cut the bullshit. Creationism was created by the church, to give some proof of God's creation. However; there's not one, not one piece of evidence pointing in creationism's way. Ask any scientists and they'll all tell you the same thing; it's nonsense, which, though given the chance, have never been able to produce any evidence through the scientific method. A scientific theory (way different from the colloquial use of the word theory) isn't an educated guess. The universe is expanding in an increasing rate, so your propulsive energy hypothesis doesn't work. Not to mention that the big bang wasn't an bang or explosion. Time was created in the Time Zero - the singularity of the Big Bang, so there was nothing before it. So was 3-dimensional space. This is all predicted with what is probably the 20th century's greatest and most accurate theory: the theory of general relativity.

We don't know anything yet, but science continues to do major breakthroughs every day. No rational person would then say; "since science can't answer anything, then I'll just believe in something which isn't supported by shit. Pass the Bible!" The religious do however suspend reason and then tries to defend it with pseudo-scientific ignorant mumbo jumbo.

I really should start charging for these online reason and science 101-classes.

Send me a bill.

Nothing starts off as fast as it's going to go after an explosion. So it could still be accelerating. See, this is just shit I think up on the spot. These scientists go about, century after century, studying their data, and have no better explanation than I do. Now, they assume, there was no explosion afterall, but it was a big bang. Makes a lot of sense.

And there's example number 1 of something humans can't comprehend. Nothingness. You can't tell a human being that there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. There had to be something to cause it.

A lot of people think along those lines, even myself. It's just that not all of us believe the version that organized religion gives us. That's what makes us agnostic. We don't say we know everything but we do know quite a bit and are always trying to learn more. For someone like me, talking snakes and burning bushes don't fit into the equation as I think the answers will be far grander than what someone put down in a book a thousand years ago.

[parfait]

This is rich...The forum's resident numbskull attempting to school someone of supposed lesser intelligence. I've seen it all now.

I don't agree with his seeming allegiance to the dogmatic and demonstrably false notion that science is infallible or all encompassing (which is ironic, given his position on religion), but Parfait is definitely bright.

Never said that either. Being fallible is key to the scientific method and science itself. A scientific theory (mostly talking about physics here), is basically a infallible hypotheses; of which have been tested and tried by a whole community.

For example: At the end of the 19th century, did in fact most physicists think that their science was complete. They knew everything. Well, then came Heisenberg and the rest of the 20th century physicists and said; fuck you, nitwits. Here's quantum mechanics for you! Most scientists hated it though, even Einstein. But today, after trying, testing and observing (unwillingly), have QM become an integral part of modern physics.

To conversationpc: Our first year was mainly molecular cell biology, so yeah, I'd say I have at least a decent understanding of it. But fuck me sideways and call me Mary - it was simply mind numbingly boring. It certainly doesn't look like a factory and it's far, far from perfect. When you say machines, you probably mean the proteins and its different forms (enzymes, ion channels, growth factor etc). These "machines" are also responsible for cancer. Not to mention the shortening of your genetic material after each replication. Or just how susceptible our body is to disease, infection and viruses. Or what about the fact that our DNA is mostly composed of non-coding junk. Eukaryotic cells evolved around 1.6–2.1 billion years ago from simpler, prokaryotic (bacterial) cells.

Rick: As I said. It wasn't a explosion of matter moving outward to fill an empty universe. Instead, space itself expands with time everywhere and increases the physical distance between two comoving points. The name Big Bang is a misnomer that simply stuck. Big Bang" originally was a put-down cooked up by a scientist who didn't like the concept when it was first put forth. It's pretty evident that you have absolutely no idea whatsoever.

[conversationpc]

To conversationpc: Our first year was mainly molecular cell biology, so yeah, I'd say I have at least a decent understanding of it. But fuck me sideways and call me Mary - it was simply mind numbingly boring. It certainly doesn't look like a factory and it's far, far from perfect. When you say machines, you probably mean the proteins and its different forms (enzymes, ion channels, growth factor etc). These "machines" are also responsible for cancer. Not to mention the shortening of your genetic material after each replication. Or just how susceptible our body is to disease, infection and viruses. Or what about the fact that our DNA is mostly composed of non-coding junk. Eukaryotic cells evolved around 1.6–2.1 billion years ago from simpler, prokaryotic (bacterial) cells.

I never said it was perfect. The fact of the matter is that it's still mind-blowing.

[Duncan]

I agree Gideon, siding with creationism doesn't mean someone has an agenda. Unless that agenda is truth seeking. People just want to know how we got here and why we're here. Science can't fully explain either. Their theories are nothing more than educated guesses. Nobody was here when the big bang happened to know whether that's what happened or not. It's a plausibility, but it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. One being, what was there before the big bang? Maybe it's a repetitive event. Maybe there have been uncountable big bangs. The bang happens and everything disperses until it's propulsive energy becomes zero and then it all begins to collapse back the point it started from and it starts over. Maybe there are dimensions that the human senses can't detect. Maybe there are explanations all around us that we are unable to sense because of that. But until someone throws down a blue print with all of the answers, it's ridiculous to cast aspersions on someone else because they don't believe what you do.

Creationists cannot explain origins at all. Saying "God did it" is not an explanation because it is not tied to any objective evidence. It fits any gap in knowledge because it doesn't rule out any possibility or impossibility. Anthing goes. It does not address questions of "how and "why", and it raises such questions as "which God" and "who designed God".

The creationist argument is simply one of incredulity. Because they cannot perceive how complex life could exist they conclude that there must be a designer. However, natural selection provides the explanation and those who propose that it is"just a theory" and one with which creationism can stand shoulder to shoulder simply do not understand Dawinism or deliberately choose to misrepresent it.

Creationists have never been able to explain the many examples of poor design that exist or the presence of vestigial organs. Evolution provides an explanantion for both.

[conversationpc]

Creationists have never been able to explain the many examples of poor design that exist or the presence of vestigial organs. Evolution provides an explanantion for both.

If I remember correctly, there used to be a considerable number of organs that were considered vestigial that are no longer so. Who's to say that the few still considered to be vestigial don't actually have a purpose that simply hasn't been discovered yet?

[S2M]

You can't tell a human being that there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. There had to be something to cause it.

Ok, using your pretzel logic....what came before 'god'? He didn't just spring out of nothingness, did he?

This is too damn easy....

[conversationpc]

You can't tell a human being that there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. There had to be something to cause it.

Ok, using your pretzel logic....what came before 'god'? He didn't just spring out of nothingness, did he?

This is too damn easy....

I don't have an explanation for how God could have always existed. I'm not ashamed to admit that and, unlike the atheist, it's not a problem for me to admit that I don't have the answer for everything, nor does science.

[Gideon]

You can't tell a human being that there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. There had to be something to cause it.

Ok, using your pretzel logic....what came before 'god'? He didn't just spring out of nothingness, did he?

There's a slight difference between your question and his assertion. According to Christians, God is an eternal entity who has no origin; according to scientists, the big bang was an event that has an origin and is not eternal, the product of some sort of stimulus or precipitating factor. Unless I'm mistaken and you're suggesting the big bang was created quite literally ex nihilo, I'm not seeing the similarity.

[verslibre]

Creationists have never been able to explain the many examples of poor design that exist or the presence of vestigial organs. Evolution provides an explanantion for both.

Are you talking about your peepee?

[conversationpc]

Creationists have never been able to explain the many examples of poor design that exist or the presence of vestigial organs. Evolution provides an explanantion for both.

Are you talking about your peepee?

I actually did laugh out loud on this one.

[verslibre]

[conversationpc]

:lol:

Go ahead and edit your post again so I have to change mine...I dare you!

[Duncan]

Creationists have never been able to explain the many examples of poor design that exist or the presence of vestigial organs. Evolution provides an explanantion for both.

If I remember correctly, there used to be a considerable number of organs that were considered vestigial that are no longer so. Who's to say that the few still considered to be vestigial don't actually have a purpose that simply hasn't been discovered yet?

No, that is a misrepresentation put forward by creationists. A structure is considered vestigial because it's not performing the function it was evolved to perform. There are countless examples.

[Duncan]

Creationists have never been able to explain the many examples of poor design that exist or the presence of vestigial organs. Evolution provides an explanantion for both.

Are you talking about your peepee?

My what? Does your mother know you're using the computer at this time of night?

[Rick]

I agree Gideon, siding with creationism doesn't mean someone has an agenda. Unless that agenda is truth seeking. People just want to know how we got here and why we're here. Science can't fully explain either. Their theories are nothing more than educated guesses. Nobody was here when the big bang happened to know whether that's what happened or not. It's a plausibility, but it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. One being, what was there before the big bang? Maybe it's a repetitive event. Maybe there have been uncountable big bangs. The bang happens and everything disperses until it's propulsive energy becomes zero and then it all begins to collapse back the point it started from and it starts over. Maybe there are dimensions that the human senses can't detect. Maybe there are explanations all around us that we are unable to sense because of that. But until someone throws down a blue print with all of the answers, it's ridiculous to cast aspersions on someone else because they don't believe what you do.

Creationists cannot explain origins at all. Saying "God did it" is not an explanation because it is not tied to any objective evidence. It fits any gap in knowledge because it doesn't rule out any possibility or impossibility. Anthing goes. It does not address questions of "how and "why", and it raises such questions as "which God" and "who designed God".

The creationist argument is simply one of incredulity. Because they cannot perceive how complex life could exist they conclude that there must be a designer. However, natural selection provides the explanation and those who propose that it is"just a theory" and one with which creationism can stand shoulder to shoulder simply do not understand Dawinism or deliberately choose to misrepresent it.

Creationists have never been able to explain the many examples of poor design that exist or the presence of vestigial organs. Evolution provides an explanation for both.

Don't mind me Duncan, I just like arguing with Parfait. I'm sure he's a whole site smarter, bookwise, than I am.

[parfait]

You can't tell a human being that there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. There had to be something to cause it.

Ok, using your pretzel logic....what came before 'god'? He didn't just spring out of nothingness, did he?

This is too damn easy....

I don't have an explanation for how God could have always existed. I'm not ashamed to admit that and, unlike the atheist, it's not a problem for me to admit that I don't have the answer for everything, nor does science.

You don't have any answers at all! What you have is opinions based on a old fucking book. Noah's ark? God created the earth in 7 days? Adam and Eve? You don't have one shred of evidence for either of those.

How a grown man can even say something as irrational and retarded is beyond me, and frankly; pretty sad.

[Moon Beam]

How a grown man can even say something as irrational and retarded is beyond me, and frankly; pretty sad.

Now that's a laughable load coming from you parfait.
Considering some of the things you've posted around here, I'd say you're in a sad state yourself Sir.

[Duncan]

How a grown man can even say something as irrational and retarded is beyond me, and frankly; pretty sad.

Now that's a laughable load coming from you parfait.
Considering some of the things you've posted around here, I'd say you're in a sad state yourself Sir.

Do you believe in Noah's Ark, Moon Beam?

[whirlwind]

You can't tell a human being that there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. There had to be something to cause it.

Ok, using your pretzel logic....what came before 'god'? He didn't just spring out of nothingness, did he?

This is too damn easy....

One religion states that"God always was and always will be."

To believe in God is to believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, Santa Claus, Superman and all the greats who do good deeds and tell us if we are good, we wll benefit from what each has to offer.
As you grow older and are able to walk without these crutch's, your educated mind tell you that each is illogical and that you have to be true to your thinking because to be a hypocrite in the way you live your life, is the biggest waste of your time. IMO, too many people waste too much of their time being deluded by their belief in God, ghosts and prayer. They should meditate on the power of positive thinking and live only with what "IS" and what is within their power to do.

[climbs down off soapbox]

[conversationpc]

You can't tell a human being that there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. There had to be something to cause it.

Ok, using your pretzel logic....what came before 'god'? He didn't just spring out of nothingness, did he?

This is too damn easy....

I don't have an explanation for how God could have always existed. I'm not ashamed to admit that and, unlike the atheist, it's not a problem for me to admit that I don't have the answer for everything, nor does science.

You don't have any answers at all! What you have is opinions based on a old fucking book. Noah's ark? God created the earth in 7 days? Adam and Eve? You don't have one shred of evidence for either of those.

How a grown man can even say something as irrational and retarded is beyond me, and frankly; pretty sad.

Look, if you want to think you have all the answers and that you're living a fulfilled godless life, that's fine with me. But it seems like you're more concerned about what others believe than you are about being confident that what you believe works for you. You're an insecure little man if that's the case.

[artist4perry]

I agree Gideon, siding with creationism doesn't mean someone has an agenda. Unless that agenda is truth seeking. People just want to know how we got here and why we're here. Science can't fully explain either. Their theories are nothing more than educated guesses. Nobody was here when the big bang happened to know whether that's what happened or not. It's a plausibility, but it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. One being, what was there before the big bang? Maybe it's a repetitive event. Maybe there have been uncountable big bangs. The bang happens and everything disperses until it's propulsive energy becomes zero and then it all begins to collapse back the point it started from and it starts over. Maybe there are dimensions that the human senses can't detect. Maybe there are explanations all around us that we are unable to sense because of that. But until someone throws down a blue print with all of the answers, it's ridiculous to cast aspersions on someone else because they don't believe what you do.

Cut the bullshit. Creationism was created by the church, to give some proof of God's creation. However; there's not one, not one piece of evidence pointing in creationism's way. Ask any scientists and they'll all tell you the same thing; it's nonsense, which, though given the chance, have never been able to produce any evidence through the scientific method. A scientific theory (way different from the colloquial use of the word theory) isn't an educated guess. The universe is expanding in an increasing rate, so your propulsive energy hypothesis doesn't work. Not to mention that the big bang wasn't an bang or explosion. Time was created in the Time Zero - the singularity of the Big Bang, so there was nothing before it. So was 3-dimensional space. This is all predicted with what is probably the 20th century's greatest and most accurate theory: the theory of general relativity.

We don't know anything yet, but science continues to do major breakthroughs every day. No rational person would then say; "since science can't answer anything, then I'll just believe in something which isn't supported by shit. Pass the Bible!" The religious do however suspend reason and then tries to defend it with pseudo-scientific ignorant mumbo jumbo.

I really should start charging for these online reason and science 101-classes.

The problem is not with anyone having a difference of opinion, the problem is you cannot deal with anyone not seeing every thought you have as sacred. You cannot discuss anything without getting personal and nasty. Is it your desire in life to "enlighten" everyone to the glory that is you? Are you that shallow and pretentious? I have no problem with you discussing things in a fair and decent manner, but that would take decency and intelligence. Which you sorely lack. This thread was supposed to be in the spirit of just discussion, no agendas in place, but it changed and I think it is a lost cause to engage in conversation when you cannot remain civil.

[whirlwind]

This is rich...The forum's resident numbskull attempting to school someone of supposed lesser intelligence. I've seen it all now.

I don't agree with his seeming allegiance to the dogmatic and demonstrably false notion that science is infallible or all encompassing (which is ironic, given his position on religion), but Parfait is definitely bright.

I actually enjoy reading his posts very much.

TROLLS

One of many unsung internet heroes who are almost entirely misunderstood. Contrary to popular belief, many trolls are actually quite intelligent. Their habitual attacks on forums is usually a result of their awareness of the pretentiousness and excessive self-importance of many forum enthusiasts. As much as people may hate trolls, they are highly effective - their actions bring much of the stupidity of other forum users out into the great wide open.
Man, that troll really owned those dumb forum users who take themselves too damn seriously.

[Moon Beam]

How a grown man can even say something as irrational and retarded is beyond me, and frankly; pretty sad.

Now that's a laughable load coming from you parfait.
Considering some of the things you've posted around here, I'd say you're in a sad state yourself Sir.

Do you believe in Noah's Ark, Moon Beam?

I believe in God....end of discussion for me Sir.

[Duncan]

How a grown man can even say something as irrational and retarded is beyond me, and frankly; pretty sad.

Now that's a laughable load coming from you parfait.
Considering some of the things you've posted around here, I'd say you're in a sad state yourself Sir.

Do you believe in Noah's Ark, Moon Beam?

I believe in God....end of discussion for me Sir.

Eh?

[YoungJRNY]

My girlfriend is a hardcore Christian and I've went to mass's to support her. I just can't get into the God thing, I really can't. Being someone that was never forced to go to Church at a young age (when I did go around 8 years old with my cousin, I laughed out loud from the ridiculousness of what was being said) I really just can't bring myself to believe a God exists since the world claims there are many of them and it's that your beliefs determine the real God of the Universe.

Without things shoved down my throat and doing my own re-search and hearing stories from both sides of the coin, once I turn off my mind and forget about everything that was ever said, I just don't see ONE reason out there that a God exists. Nothing benefits the human race if we were all thrown out to live in the wild like dogs. There are predators, mother nature dangers and things like poison-ness creatures and edible plants that would kill a human being within 30 seconds.

If I didn't have a conscience or no recollection of human influence in my life and was sent to this world, there would be nothing out there to lead me believe there was a higher power takin' place above me that created such a mess. Too harsh of living conditions.

The solution to survival was all taken care of by us, the man, over time within certain era's of life. It was MAN that created clothing for protection of the harsh living conditions. It was MAN who pounded those nails day in and day out to secure a warm home-like structure with his bare hands for protection from the outside threat of the danger of the wild and mother nature. It was man who rubbed sticks together to create friction and fire to keep from freezing to death in Earth's unlivable conditions.

And somehow, we give all the credit to a book.

My .2cents.