President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[The_Noble_Cause]

In addition to saying he's still going to push health care,

Yeh, using pretty much the same HMO-fattening plan first advocated by Nixon.
The GOP may have careened far right since the 70s, but reforming healthcare, ipso facto, is not far left.

cap and trade,

He also promoted off-shore drilling, clean coal, and nuclear power.
C'mon, give credit where it's due.
Even if it's only window dressing, this was a speech that clearly tried to straddle the right and left divide.

and another stimulus package?

Must've walked to the fridge during that part.
You mean when he said something about putting the repaid TARP funds toward jobs?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yes yes...a spending freeze he said prior he doesn't believe in...because it's a "hatchet" and he believes in using a "scalpel"...damn inconvienent when there is audio of a person contradicting themselves...

Wait...I know you will bring up that republican Presidents have done so...yes yes we know...but they aren't President NOW...Obama is...

No, I would say that's politics - period.
With growing concern over the deficit, Obama should be commended for addressing that concern.

He is about as much a conservative as I am a tree-hugging, card carrying member of P.E.T.A. as in NOT AT ALL...he can throw all the conservative bones in a speech he wants to throw, the proof is in the actions of his administration. The only PROOF of anything based on actions is that he and the democrat leadership in congress either don't care about, or are just oblivious to what the very people they claim to represent want.

You guys also now swear off W. as a liberal.
Hell, the RNC’s recently released 10 point ideological purity test would result in every Republican president since Eisenhower earning an F.
So you’ll forgive me if I defer to someone else on the topic of what is conservatism and what isn’t.
You guys haven't delivered on that front for nearly a century.

[BobbyinTN]

Awesome speech by our President tonight. Loved the rethugs sitting there like spoiled, scolded children.

[Rockindeano]

Jesus Christ Matt and Stu- what the fuck you want?

He threw a bunch of bones out there to the Cons....

You guys must be pissed he wants to end "don't ask, don't tell."

Great speech on all fronts.

[Ehwmatt]

Jesus Christ Matt and Stu- what the fuck you want?

He threw a bunch of bones out there to the Cons....

You guys must be pissed he wants to end "don't ask, don't tell."

Great speech on all fronts.

lol yea, because the military fag policy is really something that I care so deeply about (ridiculously transparent political grandstanding to silence his gay leftist critics, btw... and probably not a good idea based on the amount of homophobia that runs through much of the armed forces)

Look, I don't even like Republicans who supposedly share more of my views. What makes you think I'm gonna enjoy or credit Obama when he mentions a few things in the midst of trying to do all kinds of major programs that will fundamentally alter the rest of my life and that cut against everything I believe in? These guys are all fuckin liars. You don't see me in here waving the flag of any particular Republican either, do you? They're all liars and the system is fuckin broken. But I'm especially not gonna give one iota of credence to someone like Obama who doesn't have one true belief that I can relate to.

[Rockindeano]

Jesus Christ Matt and Stu- what the fuck you want?

He threw a bunch of bones out there to the Cons....

You guys must be pissed he wants to end "don't ask, don't tell."

Great speech on all fronts.

lol yea, because the military fag policy is really something that I care so deeply about (ridiculously transparent political grandstanding to silence his gay leftist critics, btw... and probably not a good idea based on the amount of homophobia that runs through much of the armed forces)

Look, I don't even like Republicans who supposedly share more of my views. What makes you think I'm gonna enjoy or credit Obama when he mentions a few things in the midst of trying to do all kinds of major programs that will fundamentally alter the rest of my life and that cut against everything I believe in? These guys are all fuckin liars. You don't see me in here waving the flag of any particular Republican either, do you? They're all liars and the system is fuckin broken. But I'm especially not gonna give one iota of credence to someone like Obama who doesn't have one true belief that I can relate to.

You're just way too far right then. What Obama did last night was talk his way to the center. He truthfully pointed out that not one person in this country has had their taxes go up, not one. He also pointed out that a trillion dollars would be cut from the defecit if the Health care bill would be passed, that estimate coming from the CBO. He also pointed out that the stimulus has in fact worked. He pointed out that the future of our kids and their kids needs to be preserved. He talked about the "defecit of trust" that Washington has with the American people and that they need to do what's right for the country and not what's politically opportune for an politician's self.

It was a helluva speech and I would suspect he will get a rather nice bump out of this. Where has this president been? This is the guy who stoked many a Americans hearts to fire. Last night he showed leadership and balls. How about calling out the Supreme Court, mainly the 5 conservatives who just last week ruled in favor of no limits lobbyist could pay to government reps. That was ballsy.

[Ehwmatt]

You're just way too far right then. What Obama did last night was talk his way to the center. He truthfully pointed out that not one person in this country has had their taxes go up, not one. He also pointed out that a trillion dollars would be cut from the defecit if the Health care bill would be passed, that estimate coming from the CBO. He also pointed out that the stimulus has in fact worked. He pointed out that the future of our kids and their kids needs to be preserved. He talked about the "defecit of trust" that Washington has with the American people and that they need to do what's right for the country and not what's politically opportune for an politician's self.

It was a helluva speech and I would suspect he will get a rather nice bump out of this. Where has this president been? This is the guy who stoked many a Americans hearts to fire. Last night he showed leadership and balls. How about calling out the Supreme Court, mainly the 5 conservatives who just last week ruled in favor of no limits lobbyist could pay to government reps. That was ballsy.

Well thanks for the political diagnosis, Dr. Dean. It's the same shit that got him there, all glitzy talk and no substance. I don't trust any of these politicians farther than my nose. All of them, Republican, Democrat, Independent, they all think they know "what's good for us" and have proven to be nothing but crooked buffoons with nary a clue. I know plenty of extremely liberal people who feel the exact same way I do, it's got nothing to do with being right or left, but it's got plenty to do with being skeptical on account of past reality.

But hey, if you want to drink at the Kool-Aid trough, don't let me stop you.

[lights1961]

I hear rumors floating around that Hillary is considering a primary challenge to Obama for 2012... just saying...
from early in the week a couple of co-workers who heard this story somewhere... and this morning another story is floating around, from somewhere... I dont know where, so I am NOT saying this is going happen... just forwarding what I am hearing out here in case anyone else has seen or heard any truth to the matter... and not 100% sure how accurate it all is... hmmmm...

Rick

[separate_wayz]

Jesus Christ Matt and Stu- what the fuck you want?

He threw a bunch of bones out there to the Cons....

You guys must be pissed he wants to end "don't ask, don't tell."

Great speech on all fronts.

lol yea, because the military fag policy is really something that I care so deeply about (ridiculously transparent political grandstanding to silence his gay leftist critics, btw... and probably not a good idea based on the amount of homophobia that runs through much of the armed forces)

Look, I don't even like Republicans who supposedly share more of my views. What makes you think I'm gonna enjoy or credit Obama when he mentions a few things in the midst of trying to do all kinds of major programs that will fundamentally alter the rest of my life and that cut against everything I believe in? These guys are all fuckin liars. You don't see me in here waving the flag of any particular Republican either, do you? They're all liars and the system is fuckin broken. But I'm especially not gonna give one iota of credence to someone like Obama who doesn't have one true belief that I can relate to.

You're just way too far right then. What Obama did last night was talk his way to the center. He truthfully pointed out that not one person in this country has had their taxes go up, not one. He also pointed out that a trillion dollars would be cut from the defecit if the Health care bill would be passed, that estimate coming from the CBO. He also pointed out that the stimulus has in fact worked. He pointed out that the future of our kids and their kids needs to be preserved. He talked about the "defecit of trust" that Washington has with the American people and that they need to do what's right for the country and not what's politically opportune for an politician's self.

It was a helluva speech and I would suspect he will get a rather nice bump out of this. Where has this president been? This is the guy who stoked many a Americans hearts to fire. Last night he showed leadership and balls. How about calling out the Supreme Court, mainly the 5 conservatives who just last week ruled in favor of no limits lobbyist could pay to government reps. That was ballsy.

That's right ... he tried to talk his way to the center. And it'll be just that: talk.

Most of the applause lines (trade deficit reduction, budget deficit reduction) are proposals that will go precisely nowhere, especially in an election year, and Obama knows that. Does anyone seriously think that Congress will have a spending freeze, in an election year, when some of the desparate Democrats will want to bring as much pork as possible back to their districts in a hopeless attempt to save their own jobs? Not going to happen. More cynically, a spending freeze would "bake into the pie" the 24% increase of discretionary, non-defense, non-homeland security spending that's occurred in the last year. And what about the $550 billion of unspent so-called stimulus dollars? That area would be ripe for a budget meat cleaver, but there's no consideration of cutting those funds.

The amazing thing about last night's speech was its galling double-down on the awful agenda that's gotten Obama and the Democrats into their current predicament. During the campaign, Obama yapped ad nauseum about "change". But he seems remarkably unable to change himself or his political agenda, even when a majority of Americans (even Democrat congressmen) are all ready (to use his own words) to "run for the hills".

Early prediction -- post-2010 election, the GOP will have 48 seats in the U.S. Senate (up from 41 currently), and 213 seats in the U.S House (up from 178 currently).

[KenTheDude]

Well my taxes might not have gone up, but Jesus Christ I paid $29,000 in taxes last year. And for what?? So some high ranking bank executive can get paid a $5 million bonus that he most definitely didn't earn?

[Tomulator]

I did mention the article I saw and it did lead me to posting, but I have had the same concerns for months before seeing the most recent article. You seem to be missing or avoiding the entire point of my post! Split pubic hairs if you want, but the questions I posed remain.

Hoagie, even I'm not quite sure what you're point is...
If you're saying Obama can't talk off-script or think fast on his feet, you'd be correct.
This was obvious to anyone who peeled back the fawning media hype, and took a look at him early on.
He routinely got his ass kicked in every single debate.
Some early critics labeled him a "flannel mouth."
I even said his stutter-stammer cadence was reminscient of a black Dubya, and that was before the election.
It is, what it is.
I think it speaks volumes about McCain that he couldn't run circles around him.
Should the GOP put up a silver-tongued slick operator like Romney next go-round, look out.

Newt would DESTROY this man in a debate.

Just sayin...

[The_Noble_Cause]

I hear rumors floating around that Hillary is considering a primary challenge to Obama for 2012... just saying...
from early in the week a couple of co-workers who heard this story somewhere... and this morning another story is floating around, from somewhere... I dont know where, so I am NOT saying this is going happen... just forwarding what I am hearing out here in case anyone else has seen or heard any truth to the matter... and not 100% sure how accurate it all is... hmmmm...

Rick

After Ted Kennedy's ill-fated 1980 challenge to Carter, which ended up hurting both men, I truly doubt that happening....
However, if Obama's in the shit by 2012, watch the party kingmakers have Biden step down as VP and Hillary take his place.
That's more likely than anything.

[Lula]

That's right ... he tried to talk his way to the center. And it'll be just that: talk.

Most of the applause lines (trade deficit reduction, budget deficit reduction) are proposals that will go precisely nowhere, especially in an election year, and Obama knows that. Does anyone seriously think that Congress will have a spending freeze, in an election year, when some of the desparate Democrats will want to bring as much pork as possible back to their districts in a hopeless attempt to save their own jobs? Not going to happen. More cynically, a spending freeze would "bake into the pie" the 24% increase of discretionary, non-defense, non-homeland security spending that's occurred in the last year. And what about the $550 billion of unspent so-called stimulus dollars? That area would be ripe for a budget meat cleaver, but there's no consideration of cutting those funds.

The amazing thing about last night's speech was its galling double-down on the awful agenda that's gotten Obama and the Democrats into their current predicament. During the campaign, Obama yapped ad nauseum about "change". But he seems remarkably unable to change himself or his political agenda, even when a majority of Americans (even Democrat congressmen) are all ready (to use his own words) to "run for the hills".

Early prediction -- post-2010 election, the GOP will have 48 seats in the U.S. Senate (up from 41 currently), and 213 seats in the U.S House (up from 178 currently).

obama clearly said the deficit cutting measures won't take place until 2011. not this current election year. could you at least try to watch the speech before giving us your expert take of it

[separate_wayz]

That's right ... he tried to talk his way to the center. And it'll be just that: talk.

Most of the applause lines (trade deficit reduction, budget deficit reduction) are proposals that will go precisely nowhere, especially in an election year, and Obama knows that. Does anyone seriously think that Congress will have a spending freeze, in an election year, when some of the desparate Democrats will want to bring as much pork as possible back to their districts in a hopeless attempt to save their own jobs? Not going to happen. More cynically, a spending freeze would "bake into the pie" the 24% increase of discretionary, non-defense, non-homeland security spending that's occurred in the last year. And what about the $550 billion of unspent so-called stimulus dollars? That area would be ripe for a budget meat cleaver, but there's no consideration of cutting those funds.

The amazing thing about last night's speech was its galling double-down on the awful agenda that's gotten Obama and the Democrats into their current predicament. During the campaign, Obama yapped ad nauseum about "change". But he seems remarkably unable to change himself or his political agenda, even when a majority of Americans (even Democrat congressmen) are all ready (to use his own words) to "run for the hills".

Early prediction -- post-2010 election, the GOP will have 48 seats in the U.S. Senate (up from 41 currently), and 213 seats in the U.S House (up from 178 currently).

obama clearly said the deficit cutting measures won't take place until 2011. not this current election year. could you at least try to watch the speech before giving us your expert take of it

Duly noted .... but it won't take place in 2011 either (at least not by Obama's initiative). 2011 is far enough away that he can make promises now without having to follow through with them then. He can talk about fiscal responsibility without having to do anything about it.

The biggest canard is that he's still hawking his health care "reform" as a cost-savings measure. It's nothing of the sort -- it'd be an expansion of coverage with increased expenditures, not a cost-savings measure.

I doubt many independent voters were impressed with the speech last night. And that's where the Democrats are getting killed in the polls.

[Behshad]

That's right ... he tried to talk his way to the center. And it'll be just that: talk.

Most of the applause lines (trade deficit reduction, budget deficit reduction) are proposals that will go precisely nowhere, especially in an election year, and Obama knows that. Does anyone seriously think that Congress will have a spending freeze, in an election year, when some of the desparate Democrats will want to bring as much pork as possible back to their districts in a hopeless attempt to save their own jobs? Not going to happen. More cynically, a spending freeze would "bake into the pie" the 24% increase of discretionary, non-defense, non-homeland security spending that's occurred in the last year. And what about the $550 billion of unspent so-called stimulus dollars? That area would be ripe for a budget meat cleaver, but there's no consideration of cutting those funds.

The amazing thing about last night's speech was its galling double-down on the awful agenda that's gotten Obama and the Democrats into their current predicament. During the campaign, Obama yapped ad nauseum about "change". But he seems remarkably unable to change himself or his political agenda, even when a majority of Americans (even Democrat congressmen) are all ready (to use his own words) to "run for the hills".

Early prediction -- post-2010 election, the GOP will have 48 seats in the U.S. Senate (up from 41 currently), and 213 seats in the U.S House (up from 178 currently).

obama clearly said the deficit cutting measures won't take place until 2011. not this current election year. could you at least try to watch the speech before giving us your expert take of it

Duly noted .... but it won't take place in 2011 either (at least not by Obama's initiative). 2011 is far enough away that he can make promises now without having to follow through with them then. He can talk about fiscal responsibility without having to do anything about it.

The biggest canard is that he's still hawking his health care "reform" as a cost-savings measure. It's nothing of the sort -- it'd be an expansion of coverage with increased expenditures, not a cost-savings measure.

I doubt many independent voters were impressed with the speech last night. And that's where the Democrats are getting killed in the polls.

His health plan reform, is going to be cost-saving to the average class people. You may agree with the current health care system we currently have, but I can guarantee that those independent voters youre talking about, do not like the current system and they are open to see a change....

[separate_wayz]

That's right ... he tried to talk his way to the center. And it'll be just that: talk.

Most of the applause lines (trade deficit reduction, budget deficit reduction) are proposals that will go precisely nowhere, especially in an election year, and Obama knows that. Does anyone seriously think that Congress will have a spending freeze, in an election year, when some of the desparate Democrats will want to bring as much pork as possible back to their districts in a hopeless attempt to save their own jobs? Not going to happen. More cynically, a spending freeze would "bake into the pie" the 24% increase of discretionary, non-defense, non-homeland security spending that's occurred in the last year. And what about the $550 billion of unspent so-called stimulus dollars? That area would be ripe for a budget meat cleaver, but there's no consideration of cutting those funds.

The amazing thing about last night's speech was its galling double-down on the awful agenda that's gotten Obama and the Democrats into their current predicament. During the campaign, Obama yapped ad nauseum about "change". But he seems remarkably unable to change himself or his political agenda, even when a majority of Americans (even Democrat congressmen) are all ready (to use his own words) to "run for the hills".

Early prediction -- post-2010 election, the GOP will have 48 seats in the U.S. Senate (up from 41 currently), and 213 seats in the U.S House (up from 178 currently).

obama clearly said the deficit cutting measures won't take place until 2011. not this current election year. could you at least try to watch the speech before giving us your expert take of it

Duly noted .... but it won't take place in 2011 either (at least not by Obama's initiative). 2011 is far enough away that he can make promises now without having to follow through with them then. He can talk about fiscal responsibility without having to do anything about it.

The biggest canard is that he's still hawking his health care "reform" as a cost-savings measure. It's nothing of the sort -- it'd be an expansion of coverage with increased expenditures, not a cost-savings measure.

I doubt many independent voters were impressed with the speech last night. And that's where the Democrats are getting killed in the polls.

His health plan reform, is going to be cost-saving to the average class people. You may agree with the current health care system we currently have, but I can guarantee that those independent voters youre talking about, do not like the current system and they are open to see a change....

I was referring to the health care proposal as a cost-savings effort for the federal government.

Regardless of what I feel about the current health care system, poll after poll shows that voters (especially independents, and including even Democrats) are more worried about losing what they have with their health care coverage under the Obama proposal than they are eager to get some kind of expanded coverage.

[Rockindeano]

The biggest canard is that he's still hawking his health care "reform" as a cost-savings measure. It's nothing of the sort -- it'd be an expansion of coverage with increased expenditures, not a cost-savings measure.

Did you even watch the speech?

He clearly said, by the estimate of the CBO, the proposed Health Care bill will trim 1 Trillion dollars off the defecit in 10 years. The CBO, not the OMB, is the office that both Congress and the White House are using as a numbers calculator.

[Behshad]

The biggest canard is that he's still hawking his health care "reform" as a cost-savings measure. It's nothing of the sort -- it'd be an expansion of coverage with increased expenditures, not a cost-savings measure.

Did you even watch the speech?

Of course he didnt. He just went by what Rush said about the speech

[separate_wayz]

The biggest canard is that he's still hawking his health care "reform" as a cost-savings measure. It's nothing of the sort -- it'd be an expansion of coverage with increased expenditures, not a cost-savings measure.

Did you even watch the speech?

He clearly said, by the estimate of the CBO, the proposed Health Care bill will trim 1 Trillion dollars off the defecit in 10 years. The CBO, not the OMB, is the office that both Congress and the White House are using as a numbers calculator.

Why are you still buying into Obama's "this-proposal-will-cut-the-deficit" garbage?

It's already been shown that there are at least two instances of double-counting in this health care proposal. And this isn't me saying this -- it's the CBO Director (since you're fond of quoting the CBO) who issued a clarification on December 23 and agreed that the Medicare Hospital Insurance (HI) savings cannot be counted twice. Either they're used to offset a new entitlement or they're used to improve the government's capacity to pay future Medicare benefits. You can't have both. Total effect: under the Senate bill, $350 billion would be lost in current offsets, which would mean the Senate bill would increase the deficit by well over $400 billion in the first decade alone.

The other double-counting has to do with the Community Living Assistance Services and Support (CLASS) Act. Here again there's double counting. Premiums are set aside to pay future claims, but they're also counted by the bill's sponsors as an offset for expanding health coverage. Total effect: under the Senate bill, about $72 billion in offsets would be lost in the first decade.

When you add up the coverage expansions, other spending, the so-called "doc fix", the two double-countings, and an adjustment for the true 10-year window (where both the House and the Senate bills have 10 years of spending and revenue offsets paying for only 6 or 7 years of spending), the total cost explodes to an estimated $2.9 trillion through 2019.

This thing is a budget-buster, not a budget-saver. The fact that Obama still peddles this nonsense shows how stupid he thinks Americans really are.

[Ehwmatt]

The biggest canard is that he's still hawking his health care "reform" as a cost-savings measure. It's nothing of the sort -- it'd be an expansion of coverage with increased expenditures, not a cost-savings measure.

Did you even watch the speech?

He clearly said, by the estimate of the CBO, the proposed Health Care bill will trim 1 Trillion dollars off the defecit in 10 years. The CBO, not the OMB, is the office that both Congress and the White House are using as a numbers calculator.

Is that the same office that measures stats like "Jobs Saved"?

I mean come on, really?

[S2M]

Therre is absolutely nothing more abhorrent than watching half of a room cheer(clap) for a presidential point, and the other half sit there like deadweights.

And it happens from both sides, so save your witty retorts on if the Republicans were in office, blather.....the country needs to be united.....partisan politics only divide the country more.

Tax cuts helped stimulate consumer spending - dems stand and cheer, repubs sit like zombies.....

Way to unite a country.....fukkers!

[Behshad]

Therre is absolutely nothing more abhorrent than watching half of a room cheer(clap) for a presidential point, and the other half sit there like deadweights.

And it happens from both sides, so save your witty retorts on if the Republicans were in office, blather.....the country needs to be united.....partisan politics only divide the country more.

Tax cuts helped stimulate consumer spending - dems stand and cheer, repubs sit like zombies.....

Way to unite a country.....fukkers!

Well said !!

[RossValoryRocks]

How about calling out the Supreme Court, mainly the 5 conservatives who just last week ruled in favor of no limits lobbyist could pay to government reps. That was ballsy.

Yeah ballsy and stupid...even my 7 year old would know that no law can limit freedom of speech.

I know that pesky 1st Amendment bothers you libs, but SCOTUS was right sorry.

I suggest you go look up the Constitution again...it is right there in very easy to understand language..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Bolded so you can pick it out...

[separate_wayz]

Therre is absolutely nothing more abhorrent than watching half of a room cheer(clap) for a presidential point, and the other half sit there like deadweights.

And it happens from both sides, so save your witty retorts on if the Republicans were in office, blather.....the country needs to be united.....partisan politics only divide the country more.

Tax cuts helped stimulate consumer spending - dems stand and cheer, repubs sit like zombies.....

Way to unite a country.....fukkers!

Actually I think it's pretty abhorent to watch a whole room full of political leaders applauding initiatives to sap my liberties and drain my bank account. If I wanted a bunch of mindless apparatchiks applauding that, I could move to Soviet Russia circa 1935 (or a Berkeley city council meeting circa last Tuesday).

Personally I think Howard Zinn was close to being right when he said: "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

[Rockindeano]

How about calling out the Supreme Court, mainly the 5 conservatives who just last week ruled in favor of no limits lobbyist could pay to government reps. That was ballsy.

Yeah ballsy and stupid...even my 7 year old would know that no law can limit freedom of speech.

I know that pesky 1st Amendment bothers you libs, but SCOTUS was right sorry.

I suggest you go look up the Constitution again...it is right there in very easy to understand language..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Bolded so you can pick it out...

What the fuck are you rambling about? The ruling handed down by the slanted SCOTUS 5-4 had nothing to do with free speech, unless you are trying to sell me the notion that money and lobbying is a form of free speech. Go read the ruling.

I guess it's ok to you that corporations can now give as much money to the politician of their choice? I suppose that's ok because big business is in the corner of republican candidates. I can't wait to hear your rebuttal.

[Ehwmatt]

How about calling out the Supreme Court, mainly the 5 conservatives who just last week ruled in favor of no limits lobbyist could pay to government reps. That was ballsy.

Yeah ballsy and stupid...even my 7 year old would know that no law can limit freedom of speech.

I know that pesky 1st Amendment bothers you libs, but SCOTUS was right sorry.

I suggest you go look up the Constitution again...it is right there in very easy to understand language..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Bolded so you can pick it out...

What the fuck are you rambling about? The ruling handed down by the slanted SCOTUS 5-4 had nothing to do with free speech, unless you are trying to sell me the notion that money and lobbying is a form of free speech. Go read the ruling.

I guess it's ok to you that corporations can now give as much money to the politician of their choice? I suppose that's ok because big business is in the corner of republican candidates. I can't wait to hear your rebuttal.

lol, it's a bipartisan decision. big business funds the dems just as much as the repubs. you're pushing an antiquated notion of campaign funding.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

How about calling out the Supreme Court, mainly the 5 conservatives who just last week ruled in favor of no limits lobbyist could pay to government reps. That was ballsy.

Yeah ballsy and stupid...even my 7 year old would know that no law can limit freedom of speech.

I know that pesky 1st Amendment bothers you libs, but SCOTUS was right sorry.

I suggest you go look up the Constitution again...it is right there in very easy to understand language..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Bolded so you can pick it out...

What the fuck are you rambling about? The ruling handed down by the slanted SCOTUS 5-4 had nothing to do with free speech, unless you are trying to sell me the notion that money and lobbying is a form of free speech. Go read the ruling.

I guess it's ok to you that corporations can now give as much money to the politician of their choice? I suppose that's ok because big business is in the corner of republican candidates. I can't wait to hear your rebuttal.

McCain Feingold is definitely a schakle on free speech- ALL parts of it . I know this first hand - years ago I was on the exec board of an organisation that was affiliated with one of the major political parties (but not one of the parties themselves) . Pre Mcain Feingold we could do things like bring in speakers - eg. Senators, Congressmen, cabinent officials & pay for their airflights & reasonable expenses . Post Mcain Feingold not only was that put on hold , but we also found we couldnt advertise in certain ways , couldn't fund ourselves in certain ways. We were told that we really didn't want to mess up because we didnt want to be made an example of. It made it extremely difficlut to run the organisation. And we couldt become a 527 because that restricted us in other ways -eg we couldnt endorse or support a candidate for a positon as low as local dog catcher. We effectively got muzzled and had to tear our hair out on how to fund our selves and function the way we wanted to. The SCOTUS decison was right . that whole law should be canned.

If people, ALL people were engaged in the political process and knew the issues, all the truckloads of money from coca cola and Microsoft or who ever wouldnt be able to shift opinion and win elections.

[separate_wayz]

How about calling out the Supreme Court, mainly the 5 conservatives who just last week ruled in favor of no limits lobbyist could pay to government reps. That was ballsy.

Yeah ballsy and stupid...even my 7 year old would know that no law can limit freedom of speech.

I know that pesky 1st Amendment bothers you libs, but SCOTUS was right sorry.

I suggest you go look up the Constitution again...it is right there in very easy to understand language..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Bolded so you can pick it out...

What the fuck are you rambling about? The ruling handed down by the slanted SCOTUS 5-4 had nothing to do with free speech, unless you are trying to sell me the notion that money and lobbying is a form of free speech. Go read the ruling.

I guess it's ok to you that corporations can now give as much money to the politician of their choice? I suppose that's ok because big business is in the corner of republican candidates. I can't wait to hear your rebuttal.

You mean that the dissenting opinion tried to preclude free speech rights to corporations, which Justice Scalia effectively trashes in his concurring opinion. The majority opinion had everything to do with free speech rights. As Scalia effectively argues, if you accept the dissenting opinion's nonsense, then newspapers which are legally incorporated have free speech rights only at the sufferance of Congress -- which "boggles the mind", as Scalia puts it.

Scalia continues: "The dissent says that when the Framers 'constitutionalized the right to free speech in the First Amendment, it was the free speech of individual Americans that they had in mind.' Post, at 37. That is no doubt true. All the provisions of the Bill of Rights set forth the rights of individual men and women — not, for example, of trees or polar bears. But the individual person’s right to speak includes the right to speak in association with other individual persons. Surely the dissent does not believe that speech by the Republican Party or the Democratic Party can be censored because it is not the speech of 'an individual American.' It is the speech of many individual Americans, who have associated in a common cause, giving the leadership of the party the right to speak on their behalf. The association of individuals in a business corporation is no different — or at least it cannot be denied the right to speak on the simplistic ground that it is not 'an individual American'."

So yes, free speech is attributable to men and women, not trees or polar bears. But associations of men and women (including corporate associations) also engender free speech rights.

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-205.pdf

[Rockindeano]

What fucking nonsense. Scalia is exactly what's wrong with this Court and country. Horseshit.

[Lula]

the roberts court would have us believe that the founders intended to give free speech rights to the east indian tea company, rather than dumping their inventory straight into the boston harbor. what of transnational companies that rely on foreign slave labor in mexican maquiladoras or saipan sweatshops??? u mean to say they can now spend to the hilt to influence our election process??? the decision smacks of nothing less than pure judicial activism. very sad.