President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[conversationpc]

I would tread cautiously in classifying someone who attempts to build a bridge between church and politics as being "anti-religious". It certainly does not compare to the millions of racially charged blog posts and psychopathic assholes carrying the aforementioned signs at political rallies.

What a crapload that is. Bigotry is bigotry no matter what kind of hood it's under and there is likely more anti-religion bigotry in this country now than there is actual racism.

That's "absolute fact".

[The_Noble_Cause]

George W. Bush, by the way, was the most right wing conservative president in 100 years - and his record nearly matches Reagan, the patron saint of modern Conservative Wingnuttery, to a fucking T.

Ummm....BUWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!

Instead of caps-lock snark, how about some facts, Dave?
If you can prove me wrong, go right ahead…
Just as one example, Regan raised taxes to keep social security solvent.
Not only did George W. Bush NOT raise taxes, he tried to put social security into the stock market just in time for the biggest crash since the Great Depression.
And there’s plenty more where that came from.
Be it blatant pandering to evangelicals, to nation building, to tax cuts and deregulation mania, George W. Bush was a loyal disciple of Ronald Reagan, and in many ways outmatched him.
If there was a more right wing/conservative president in recent 20th century history, whose name doesn’t start with Calvin and end in Coolidge, I’m all ears.
Who would it be?

- Surely not Nixon – after all, he gave us EPA, OSHA, Affirmative Action, wage controls, and even made the case for universal healthcare. Hell, he was more liberal than Obama.

- Scratch off Eisenhower – he out-stimulused the stimulus by building the interstate, loved the New Deal, taxed the rich at 90%, warned of the military industrial complex, and nearly accepted the Democratic nomination in the 50s.
Other than that, you’re left with Ford and Bush 41 who are little more than footnotes in presidential history.

You Glenn Beck 9-12 freaks live in an alternate fact-free reality.
It speaks volumes that the conservative rank-and-file now feel the need to re-brand themselves as “Tea Partyers” rather than for what you really are - sad Republican hacks whose ideology just suffered a head-on collision with reality.
In the words of Brian May to a certain drunken band leader: “You have to own yer own poo.”

[separate_wayz]

I'd be more than happy to see federal spending restrained, even frozen (entitlements included), and existing appropriations rescinded (including for unspent so-called stimulus dollars), no matter which party or president or congress was able to achieve it.

Unfortunately, we're not going to see any meaningful federal spending restraints under the current congress or president. Everything offered-up so far is merely gimmicks, disingenuous (i.e., not serious) proposals, and proven failures (like PAYGO).

[Rockindeano]

There's no more racism/bigotry in the Republican party or Tea Party than any other form of political party. It's just in different forms.

Bullshit.

Oh yes...you libs are the party of light and hope How could I forget? The dems have as many bigots and racists in it as the republicans do, it is a damn lie to say anything else...and I mean that...if you really believe what you said you are a moron, and if you don't you are a liar.

Dude, does the light at the end of the tunnel blind you that badly? Come on now....the GOP is filled with "nigger, illegal and Jew" haters. Yes, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are indeed racists, big time asshole racists, but they are two morons far far out of the power spotlight. Your beautiful party is full of just horrible people who dislike anyone with a shade of color or poor dialect.

You're better than that Stu. Just be honest.

[Rockindeano]

I'd be more than happy to see federal spending restrained, even frozen (entitlements included), and existing appropriations rescinded (including for unspent so-called stimulus dollars), no matter which party or president or congress was able to achieve it.

Of course you would. You obviously are not someone who needs a helping hand from Uncle Sam. Freezing spending? Freezing entitlements? Great idea. I think taking away all medicare from our seniors who worked their asses off for this nation is a novel idea; I also think stripping away unemployment benefits to working folk hampered by the piss poor economic policies of one George W Bush is another compassionate yet responsible idea While we're at it, let's revoke all monies from airport subsidies, road repairs, mass transit systems and to top it off, let's deny Veterans care they need to survive. Love it!

[separate_wayz]

I'd be more than happy to see federal spending restrained, even frozen (entitlements included), and existing appropriations rescinded (including for unspent so-called stimulus dollars), no matter which party or president or congress was able to achieve it.

Of course you would. You obviously are not someone who needs a helping hand from Uncle Sam. Freezing spending? Freezing entitlements? Great idea. I think taking away all medicare from our seniors who worked their asses off for this nation is a novel idea; I also think stripping away unemployment benefits to working folk hampered by the piss poor economic policies of one George W Bush is another compassionate yet responsible idea While we're at it, let's revoke all monies from airport subsidies, road repairs, mass transit systems and to top it off, let's deny Veterans care they need to survive. Love it!

So your Responsible Adult Solution is to keep all spending in place (including entitlements), at its current rate of increase, pretending that we're not racking up $1.4 trillion deficits each year, until there's a dollar collapse or debt default, and we stifle economic growth so that we guarantee our kids and grandkids have a second-rate standard of living and a scarcity of jobs?

No thanks.

I don't consider Greece or California to be exemplary models of public finance.

[RossValoryRocks]

There's no more racism/bigotry in the Republican party or Tea Party than any other form of political party. It's just in different forms.

Bullshit.

Oh yes...you libs are the party of light and hope How could I forget? The dems have as many bigots and racists in it as the republicans do, it is a damn lie to say anything else...and I mean that...if you really believe what you said you are a moron, and if you don't you are a liar.

Dude, does the light at the end of the tunnel blind you that badly? Come on now....the GOP is filled with "nigger, illegal and Jew" haters. Yes, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are indeed racists, big time asshole racists, but they are two morons far far out of the power spotlight. Your beautiful party is full of just horrible people who dislike anyone with a shade of color or poor dialect.

You're better than that Stu. Just be honest.

A) It's not not my party...I think I am just going to scan and post my independent voter registration...
B) Racism is racism (Remember Clinton's famous remark to Kennedy "A few years ago this guy would be serving us coffee"...in reference to Obama.
C) I live in one of the most democratic of areas in PA, believe me when I tell you that all the words you used are used by democrats here.
D) Robert Byrd used the word "nigger" in an interview, not very long ago. Yes I know the republicans have Strom Thurmond so it's a wash...
E) The REPUBLICANS got the 1964 Civil rights and the 1965 voting rights acts passed, not the democrats.
F) When did illegal become a racist term??? Answer: It ISN'T! It describes in detail those who have entered this country in contravention of the normal and legal means to do so.

[Rockindeano]

A) It's not not my party...I think I am just going to scan and post my independent voter registration...

Don't bother, I believe you.

B) Racism is racism (Remember Clinton's famous remark to Kennedy "A few years ago this guy would be serving us coffee"...in reference to Obama.

That's not racist, that's Clinton speaking factually. Talking about how times have changed.

D) Robert Byrd used the word "nigger" in an interview, not very long ago. Yes I know the republicans have Strom Thurmond so it's a wash...

That's funny actually. Thurmond and Byrd are dinosaur old timers who are both racist. Byrd is a piece of shit who was in the Democratic Party so long ago that they were actually reversed with the Republicans. Back then, the Dems were the racist pigs. That has now changed.

E) The REPUBLICANS got the 1964 Civil rights and the 1965 voting rights acts passed, not the democrats.

See my sentence directly above.

F) When did illegal become a racist term??? Answer: It ISN'T! It describes in detail those who have entered this country in contravention of the normal and legal means to do so.

Dude, I was referring to illegals as Beaners, and spics. You know what I was getting at. You really think good ol JD down in Arizona likes Mexicans? Watch that race- his true colors will come out.

[7 Wishes]

Cut & Paste Finder...dude, try to stay on-topic. It's exhausting reading through this shit. Every Administration has stories just like this.

The thing is, since the GOP stands firmly against helping even the most desperately in need in our society, it strikes me as comically hypocritical that you would post something that would indicate a smidgeon of empathy.

[RossValoryRocks]

The thing is, since the GOP stands firmly against helping even the most desperately in need in our society, it strikes me as comically hypocritical that you would post something that would indicate a smidgeon of empathy.

That statement is no more true than if FF had said the same about Democrats.

[7 Wishes]

An overindulgence in complacent empathy and spinelessness is what dooms most Democrats, not a lack thereof. I'm not a supporter of the classical welfare state, either.

[conversationpc]

The thing is, since the GOP stands firmly against helping even the most desperately in need in our society, it strikes me as comically hypocritical that you would post something that would indicate a smidgeon of empathy.

That statement is no more true than if FF had said the same about Democrats.

Speaking for myself and not the Republican party, I don't want government to help those most in need. I want government to get out of the way so that people and organizations who already want to do it can do so unencumbered of government interference.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The thing is, since the GOP stands firmly against helping even the most desperately in need in our society, it strikes me as comically hypocritical that you would post something that would indicate a smidgeon of empathy.

That statement is no more true than if FF had said the same about Democrats.

Speaking for myself and not the Republican party, I don't want government to help those most in need. I want government to get out of the way so that people and organizations who already want to do it can do so unencumbered of government interference.

Private charity based help is what this country's seniors relied on before social security- and back then, record numbers died in poverty or of hypothermia.
Churches and non-profits do great work, but they can't match the power of the government.
Just so long as politicians keep their fingers out of the cookie jar (think Al Gore's "lockbox"), instead of raiding it for stupid wars, big government programs, like social security, will continue to help the less fortunate.
Just ask Barack Obama and Scott Brown…both one-time recipients of government cheese.

[separate_wayz]

Private charity based help is what this country's seniors relied on before social security- and back then, record numbers died in poverty or of hypothermia.

Cum Hoc Fallacy

Churches and non-profits do great work, but they can't match the power of the government.

Equivocation Fallacy

Just so long as politicians keep their fingers out of the cookie jar (think Al Gore's "lockbox"), instead of raiding it for stupid wars, big government programs, like social security, will continue to help the less fortunate.

Fallacy of Relevance: Red Herring

Just ask Barack Obama and Scott Brown…both one-time recipients of government cheese.

Fallacy of Ambiguity: Straw Man

[The_Noble_Cause]

Private charity based help is what this country's seniors relied on before social security- and back then, record numbers died in poverty or of hypothermia.

Cum Hoc Fallacy

Churches and non-profits do great work, but they can't match the power of the government.

Equivocation Fallacy

Just so long as politicians keep their fingers out of the cookie jar (think Al Gore's "lockbox"), instead of raiding it for stupid wars, big government programs, like social security, will continue to help the less fortunate.

Fallacy of Relevance: Red Herring

Just ask Barack Obama and Scott Brown…both one-time recipients of government cheese.

Fallacy of Ambiguity: Straw Man

And if not the churches and non-profits, just which "peoples and organizations" did you think ConversationPC is referring to?
You seem a little confused.

[7 Wishes]

FF, you're obviously intelligent and insightful.

I'd like to see you post more about what you construe from things you hear or read as opposed to simply cutting and pasting - it can get kind of laborious sometimes.

[conversationpc]

Private charity based help is what this country's seniors relied on before social security- and back then, record numbers died in poverty or of hypothermia.

Most of the homeless shelters I know about in my area are faith-based or non-governmental agencies.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Private charity based help is what this country's seniors relied on before social security- and back then, record numbers died in poverty or of hypothermia.

Most of the homeless shelters I know about in my area are faith-based or non-governmental agencies.

Great.
Flash forward to your idealized society of no safety net, and you really think an uncoordinated patchwork of non-profits and church groups can handle the burden?
I'd say you're wrong...
The nanny state, to the extent that it exists here (soc security, medicare etc), was forged out of necesity, not design.

[Ehwmatt]

The thing is, since the GOP stands firmly against helping even the most desperately in need in our society, it strikes me as comically hypocritical that you would post something that would indicate a smidgeon of empathy.

That statement is no more true than if FF had said the same about Democrats.

Speaking for myself and not the Republican party, I don't want government to help those most in need. I want government to get out of the way so that people and organizations who already want to do it can do so unencumbered of government interference.

Private charity based help is what this country's seniors relied on before social security- and back then, record numbers died in poverty or of hypothermia.

Wouldn't some of our esteemed leaders consider this "population control?"

[The_Noble_Cause]

The same gullible right wing dumbasses that brought you unforgettable chain email classics like, “no flag lapel pin equals treason” and “bowing is an impeachable offense”, proudly presents: “Black man props feet on Oval Office desk.”
Might as well post the rebuttal now before FF takes the bait.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/photos/desk.asp

[hoagiepete]

I gotta agree with you TNC.

I am tiring of the far right and this kind of crap.

Enough already!

[Rockindeano]

I gotta agree with you TNC.

I am tiring of the far right and this kind of crap.

Enough already!

And I agree with you. For the record, the far left is damned near as bad as the far right.

If this isn't the PERFECT time for a third party, then I don't know when it will ever happen, if at all. And no Fact Finder, the Tea Party is not the answer.

How about the American Party. Responsible spending, responsible legislation and common sense. Sounds like a landslide winner to me.

[hoagiepete]

I gotta agree with you TNC.

I am tiring of the far right and this kind of crap.

Enough already!

And I agree with you. For the record, the far left is damned near as bad as the far right.

If this isn't the PERFECT time for a third party, then I don't know when it will ever happen, if at all. And no Fact Finder, the Tea Party is not the answer.

How about the American Party. Responsible spending, responsible legislation and common sense. Sounds like a landslide winner to me.

I'm with ya buddy! All we have now is spending, legislation and no sense.

[Rockindeano]

I gotta agree with you TNC.

I am tiring of the far right and this kind of crap.

Enough already!

And I agree with you. For the record, the far left is damned near as bad as the far right.

If this isn't the PERFECT time for a third party, then I don't know when it will ever happen, if at all. And no Fact Finder, the Tea Party is not the answer.

How about the American Party. Responsible spending, responsible legislation and common sense. Sounds like a landslide winner to me.

I'm with ya buddy! All we have now is spending, legislation and no sense.

How about the American Party campaign on this message: We won't accept lobbying of any kind, nor will we accept one red cent from said lobbyist. Our lobbyist will be the people. Our ears are open as are our hearts. There's your contract with America. the American people, not one of the two disgusting parties.

Oh they have sense Pete. They aren't stupid people in Congress. they are just forced into voting a certain way because they are bought and paid for. They don't vote the way of the dollar that feeds them, they lose membership in the greatest country club the earth has ever known. Hell, Congress is nicer than heaven.

[hoagiepete]

I gotta agree with you TNC.

I am tiring of the far right and this kind of crap.

Enough already!

And I agree with you. For the record, the far left is damned near as bad as the far right.

If this isn't the PERFECT time for a third party, then I don't know when it will ever happen, if at all. And no Fact Finder, the Tea Party is not the answer.

How about the American Party. Responsible spending, responsible legislation and common sense. Sounds like a landslide winner to me.

I'm with ya buddy! All we have now is spending, legislation and no sense.

How about the American Party campaign on this message: We won't accept lobbying of any kind, nor will we accept one red cent from said lobbyist. Our lobbyist will be the people. Our ears are open as are our hearts. There's your contract with America. the American people, not one of the two disgusting parties.

Oh they have sense Pete. They aren't stupid people in Congress. they are just forced into voting a certain way because they are bought and paid for. They don't vote the way of the dollar that feeds them, they lose membership in the greatest country club the earth has ever known. Hell, Congress is nicer than heaven.

Crap. I'm going to have to find another job. Having said that...you are exactly right. I think a bigger problem than the lobbyists though are those kingpins in the party that help these people get elected. They are the ones pulling the strings the most and you never see nor hear about them.

[The_Noble_Cause]

How about the American Party. Responsible spending, responsible legislation and common sense. Sounds like a landslide winner to me.

Sounds almost identical to the platform of the Reform Party.
Per Wikipedia -

The Reform Party platform includes the following:

Maintaining a balanced budget, ensured by passing a Balanced Budget Amendment and changing budgeting practices, and paying down the federal debt.

Campaign finance reform, including strict limits on campaign contributions and the outlawing of the Political action committee

Enforcement of existing immigration laws

Opposition to free trade agreements like the North American Free Trade Agreement and Central America Free Trade Agreement, and a call for withdrawal from the World Trade Organization.

Term limits on U.S. Representatives and Senators.

Direct election of the United States President by popular vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Par ... a#Platform

Plenty of third parties exist already.
Some more viable than others.
But you can't play the game without big corporate money.

[Rockindeano]

How about the American Party. Responsible spending, responsible legislation and common sense. Sounds like a landslide winner to me.

Sounds almost identical to the platform of the Reform Party.
Per Wikipedia -

The Reform Party platform includes the following:

Maintaining a balanced budget, ensured by passing a Balanced Budget Amendment and changing budgeting practices, and paying down the federal debt.

Campaign finance reform, including strict limits on campaign contributions and the outlawing of the Political action committee

Enforcement of existing immigration laws

Opposition to free trade agreements like the North American Free Trade Agreement and Central America Free Trade Agreement, and a call for withdrawal from the World Trade Organization.

Term limits on U.S. Representatives and Senators.

Direct election of the United States President by popular vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Par ... a#Platform

Plenty of third parties exist already.
Some more viable than others.
But you can't play the game without big corporate money.

Especially after the bogus SCOTUS ruling last month. Despite what Stu says, it is an unfair ruling and it will benefit the GOP. I can't speak for the Justices, but it sure reeks of partisanship.

Corporate money? I know this but you think it is possible, that the American electorate suck it up for one presidential election, and donate exclusively to the "New party?" Let the corporations give the usual to the GOP and to the Dems but amount of private donations by the majority of the people may be enough to win an election one time. Then and only then, if the new party were to actually deliver and legislate and preside the way they say they would, then we may be onto something. It would only take one time, one proper cycle of change, to permanently rid ourselves of the GOP and the Dems. Hell the GOP is danger of being fractured as it is with the teabaggers....I know this outlandish to think this way, but tis the season for a perfect storm.

By the way, I never looked up the "Reform Party." Those were my own thoughts. I am torn regarding term limits and popular vote v electoral college.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Corporate money? I know this but you think it is possible, that the American electorate suck it up for one presidential election, and donate exclusively to the "New party?" Let the corporations give the usual to the GOP and to the Dems but amount of private donations by the majority of the people may be enough to win an election one time. Then and only then, if the new party were to actually deliver and legislate and preside the way they say they would, then we may be onto something. It would only take one time, one proper cycle of change, to permanently rid ourselves of the GOP and the Dems. Hell the GOP is danger of being fractured as it is with the teabaggers....I know this outlandish to think this way, but tis the season for a perfect storm.

Nah.
Just look at the last election.
The frontrunners (Hillary, Obama, Rudy, Romney) were all awash in corporate $$$, and got disproportionate attention from the media.
Sure, a third party can run an earnest Jimmy Stewart-type, but who would care, and who would cover it?

By the way, I never looked up the "Reform Party." Those were my own thoughts.

Sorry. Didn't mean to suggest you ripped them off.

[Rockindeano]

And no Fact Finder, the Tea Party is not the answer.

A third party will get you one of two things everytime. A Dem or a Pubbie. I do hope the Tea Partiers can influence the GOP to move more to the right and quit being RINOS. Guys like MCCain and Lindsay Graham need to go.

The LAST thing we need is to go further right. Fuck that. Perhaps there's a reason "RINO" exist? Far right politics don't work, much like far left fails as well.

[conversationpc]

Great.
Flash forward to your idealized society of no safety net, and you really think an uncoordinated patchwork of non-profits and church groups can handle the burden?
I'd say you're wrong...
The nanny state, to the extent that it exists here (soc security, medicare etc), was forged out of necesity, not design.

I live in Hamilton County, Indiana. Last I knew, this was the 8th wealthiest county in the entire country. That was a few years ago and it may have changed but, the fact remains, this is a pretty wealthy area overall. That being said, the biggest agency that works with the homeless and poor in this county is the Good Samaritan Network. My church partners with them. We fed and clothed literally thousands of people from the area during the Christmas season. Now I don't know if they receive any federal or state dollars but most of their budget and supplies come from churches and donations. It can be done without governmental assistance. I saw normal folks from my church out early in the morning in 20 degree weather, handing out hats, gloves, coffee, donuts, etc., to hundreds of people waiting for some kind of assistance. Many people were there overnight, getting things ready, and other shifts of people from my church came later in the day after we were there. If what I saw on that cold winter day was possible, it's surely possible during the rest of the year, when the weather is better and when people don't have the holidays to deal with and spend their money.