President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Ehwmatt]

I thought I called you ... maybe not. At any rate, I forgot about this one.

Just checked and you did ... and there's a message. This should be good.

lol, get ready for it. I was on a rage.

[Ehwmatt]

Jesus Christ..OMFG

You know it was good when this is Deano's only reaction

[conversationpc]

Now, again, I would like someone to address DeLay's comments that, during the Bush Administration, it was "accepted," "understood," and "assumed" that GOP-sponsored legislation that was entirely debt financed would be passed by an up and down vote because that was "tradition" and "how things were done" back then. It seems pretty damning to me, and paints the right as morbidly hypocritical, considering their sudden obession with balanced budgets. At least Obama's debt is doing some good, and not just building imaginary Star Wars lasers on a moon base.

p. 186...Pay attention.

[7 Wishes]

"First off, Tom DeLay is a piece of crap. I've never cared for that guy and wouldn't trust him any farther than I could throw him."

I wouldn't say that was necessarily addressing the issue.

Ehmwatt, the remainder of my diatribe was not directed at you...I was just lobbing a grenade towards the other side of the aisle.

[Ehwmatt]

"First off, Tom DeLay is a piece of crap. I've never cared for that guy and wouldn't trust him any farther than I could throw him."

I wouldn't say that was necessarily addressing the issue.

Ehmwatt, the remainder of my diatribe was not directed at you...I was just lobbing a grenade towards the other side of the aisle.

Haha, gotcha .

[RedWingFan]

"First off, Tom DeLay is a piece of crap. I've never cared for that guy and wouldn't trust him any farther than I could throw him."

I wouldn't say that was necessarily addressing the issue.

Ehmwatt, the remainder of my diatribe was not directed at you...I was just lobbing a grenade towards the other side of the aisle.

You've been posting here how many years and you still don't know how to use the quote function?

[7 Wishes]

That was done intentionally.

Pick your battles, OK? Good Lord.

[7 Wishes]

Amazing that ANYONE could defend Big Insurance, Lie Finder...but you should be lobbying for them in D.C. Never mind that rising health care costs account for three times more a percentage of an American's income than it did ten years ago. Do you NOT see the fucking connection?

[donnaplease]

Did I hear tonight that Charlie Rangel was gonna step down?

[Ehwmatt]

RATHER: When you talk about a triumph though. One, part of the undertow in the coming election is going to be President Obama's leadership. And the Republicans will make a case and a lot of independents will buy this argument. "Listen he just hasn't been, look at the health care bill. It was his number one priority. It took him forever to get it through and he had to compromise it to death." And a version of, "Listen he's a nice person, he's very articulate" this is what's been used against him, "but he couldn't sell watermelons if it, you gave him the state troopers to flag down the traffic."

Imagine if a conservative news person/commentator said this....

[hoagiepete]

RATHER: When you talk about a triumph though. One, part of the undertow in the coming election is going to be President Obama's leadership. And the Republicans will make a case and a lot of independents will buy this argument. "Listen he just hasn't been, look at the health care bill. It was his number one priority. It took him forever to get it through and he had to compromise it to death." And a version of, "Listen he's a nice person, he's very articulate" this is what's been used against him, "but he couldn't sell watermelons if it, you gave him the state troopers to flag down the traffic."

Imagine if a conservative news person/commentator said this....

No shit!

[7 Wishes]

True. But remember that the angry appeal of Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Katz, and O'Reilly - while reflecting the opinions of a minority of the population - still have more influence and a broader market share than any leftists, Olbermann included. The Fearsome Fivesome has already attacked the few token Democrats who have made what could be perceived as racist or at least racially insensitive remarks, no holds barred.

[hoagiepete]

True. But remember that the angry appeal of Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Katz, and O'Reilly - while reflecting the opinions of a minority of the population - still have more influence and a broader market share than any leftists, Olbermann included. The Fearsome Fivesome has already attacked the few token Democrats who have made what could be perceived as racist or at least racially insensitive remarks, no holds barred.

I wouldn't lump O'Reilly in with the rest of them.

[Rockindeano]

True. But remember that the angry appeal of Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Katz, and O'Reilly - while reflecting the opinions of a minority of the population - still have more influence and a broader market share than any leftists, Olbermann included. The Fearsome Fivesome has already attacked the few token Democrats who have made what could be perceived as racist or at least racially insensitive remarks, no holds barred.

I wouldn't lump O'Reilly in with the rest of them.

Ok, for the sake of argument we won't, so then feel free to lump that pile of shit Brit Hume in there or that empty headed bitch Sarah Palin. She couldn't name one single newspaper in the country, when asked if she read any...Come on now! Oh and don't look now Cons, but up and comer hard righty Con Lynn Cheney is fast becoming a person on the scene within the GOP/Tea Bagger movement.

[7 Wishes]

Beck was completely out of his league last night - he looked like a complete buffoon. He was looking for a conspiratorial scandal where there was none.

Please, try to tell me that idiot could be a college professor again...what a fucking joke. He couldn't handle being a high school janitor.

[7 Wishes]

Interesting note to the healthcare debate: at first glance, seniors oppose reform 49% to 39%, and independents 51% to 36%.

HOWEVER, once the legislation has been explained to the pollees, those numbers change DRASTICALLY.

Seniors, upon being de-programmed, favor Obama's overhaul 54% to 35%. Similarly, independents, once they've been de-Foxed, FAVOR IT 47% to 39%.

So, it looks like your window of "no" is closing, GOP. Sorry. But since health care costs have spiked over 300% thanks to Dubbya's deregulation, health care costs are now the NUMBER ONE expense for the average American outside of mortgage and rent. So, reform is necessary - no, vital.

And once Americans have figured out that this plan is going to HELP them, the GOP's "no" tactics will come back to shoot them in the foot this fall.

Way to count your chickens. It serves you right.

[7 Wishes]

Memo to Fox troglodytes: you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not enough of the people enough of the time.

[Monker]

Memo to Fox troglodytes: you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not enough of the people enough of the time.

Actually, they simply fool the same people over and over and over again.

[separate_wayz]

In case you haven't read it, be sure to read Pat Caddell's and Doug Schoen's article in the Washington Post this morning.

"If Democrats Ignore Health-Care Polls, Midterms Will Be Costly"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02904.html

Caddell and Schoen are the pollsters for the last two Democrat presidents (Carter and Clinton, respectively). The op-ed title says it all.

Some pull-quotes from the article:

* [The Democratic Party leadership's] "blind persistence in the face of reality threatens to turn this political march of folly into an electoral rout in November."

* "The battle for public opinion has been lost .... Wishing, praying or pretending will not change these outcomes."

* "Nothing has been more disconcerting than to watch Democratic politicians and their media supporters deceive themselves into believing that the public favors the Democrats' current health-care plan."

* "A solid majority of Americans opposes the massive health-reform plan."

* "Never in our experience as pollsters can we recall such self-deluding misconstruction of survey data."

* "The notion that once enactment is forced, the public will suddenly embrace health-care reform could not be further from the truth."

* "The Democrats are pursuing policies that are out of step with the way ordinary Americans think and feel about politics and government. Barring some change of approach, they will be punished severely at the polls."

* "For Democrats to begin turning around their political fortunes there has to be a frank acknowledgement that the comprehensive health-care initiative is a failure, regardless of whether it passes."

* "Unless the Democrats fundamentally change their approach, they will produce not just a march of folly but also run the risk of unmitigated disaster in November."

[Rockindeano]

Funny. Thing is they are doing what is absolutely the right thing. Americans, when explained the health care plan without shouters and hate mongers, favor the plan. You guys tried scare tactics..and you may even win some seats in November, but it will all be based on lies and fright. The general populace is close to figuring out the fraud that is the republican party.

You Cons made fun of Clinton for all his years as running per the polls...now you are sp spinning that Obama should run to what the polls tell him is politically safe. Fuck that. Pass the bill and fuck the republicans in the ass! You fuckers contributed zero to the argument. You are out of ideas. Your party is only alive because Obama took on a deeply serious problem that with the exception of Clinton, no president ever had the balls to fight. Hahaha, have your cake and your November...I'll take this important bill anyday.

[conversationpc]

Funny. Thing is they are doing what is absolutely the right thing. Americans, when explained the health care plan without shouters and hate mongers, favor the plan. You guys tried scare tactics..and you may even win some seats in November, but it will all be based on lies and fright. The general populace is close to figuring out the fraud that is the republican party.

You Cons made fun of Clinton for all his years as running per the polls...now you are sp spinning that Obama should run to what the polls tell him is politically safe. Fuck that. Pass the bill and fuck the republicans in the ass! You fuckers contributed zero to the argument. You are out of ideas. Your party is only alive because Obama took on a deeply serious problem that with the exception of Clinton, no president ever had the balls to fight. Hahaha, have your cake and your November...I'll take this important bill anyday.

I don't buy it. Probably 90% of the people I know who've actually looked into what's in this current healthcare reform bill are against it. That even includes people who want ONLY a single-payer system.

And as far as "lies and fright", how hypocritical can you get? The Democrats pulled that stuff out of the hat on a regular basis during almost the entire eight years of the Bush administration.

Oh, and another correction...The public is already figuring out the frauds that are the Republican AND Democratic parties.

[separate_wayz]

Funny. Thing is they are doing what is absolutely the right thing. Americans, when explained the health care plan without shouters and hate mongers, favor the plan. You guys tried scare tactics..and you may even win some seats in November, but it will all be based on lies and fright. The general populace is close to figuring out the fraud that is the republican party.

You Cons made fun of Clinton for all his years as running per the polls...now you are sp spinning that Obama should run to what the polls tell him is politically safe. Fuck that. Pass the bill and fuck the republicans in the ass! You fuckers contributed zero to the argument. You are out of ideas. Your party is only alive because Obama took on a deeply serious problem that with the exception of Clinton, no president ever had the balls to fight. Hahaha, have your cake and your November...I'll take this important bill anyday.

First of all, I disagree with the notion that "they are doing what is absolutely the right thing." Wrong -- opposing this bill is the moral thing to do. The product AND the process are wholly wrong, and the American people are shouting this from the rooftops. And it's the process as much as the bill itself that is making Americans wretch. The Democrat Party is essentially giving a big middle finger to the country about the notion of "consent of the governed", and Americans know this.

Second, passing this bill will not "fuck the republicans in the ass" -- quite the opposite, my friend. It's going to fuck-in-the-ass all those Democratic congressmen in red states in swing districts -- they're all going to get wiped out in November. We're looking at catastrophic losses for the Dems right now (as Caddell and Schoen repeatedly mention). And here's the kicker: the Obama administration had absolutely no "mandate" to push for this kind of lousy legislation, but dozens of congressmen who get elected this November specifically will be elected on the promise of rolling back this noxious turd piece of legislation, if it is enacted. So they will have a mandate to un-do pieces of this bill, once they're in office, and that's what they'll do. So what will the point be, if Democrats pass this thing by one vote in the House, then lose 60-70 House members (and, yes, it will be that bad), and then the new Congress starts rolling back this garbage?

Third, this has nothing to do with what polls show is "politically safe" -- we're talking about polls showing this bill will be politically catastrophic. You have to wonder about someone's temperament, when they in some delusional fashion keep pushing for something that's going to rip their party apart. This for the Democrats is the political equivalent of Pickett's Charge, Dien Bien Phu, and the Battle of the Somme all rolled into one. (Caddell and Schoen allude to the delusion of the last one, with their use of Barbara Tuchman's book "The March of Folly". By the way: there were over 57,000 British casualties on the first day of the Battle of the Somme -- unbelievably ghastly.)

We're at the unbelievable point where Democrats themselves (like Caddell and Schoen) are grabbing their Party by the lapels to try to shake some sense into them, to try to keep them from going over the precipice. If this bill is passed, Obama's presidency will indeed be transformational .... but not at all like he imagined.

[RedWingFan]

Pass the bill and fuck the republicans in the ass!

This statement would be much more accurate by replacing republicans with Americans. There are millions of democrats who oppose this too. Dem's voted in Mass. in mass for Scott Brown. Same goes for NJ and Virginia.

[hoagiepete]

Funny. Thing is they are doing what is absolutely the right thing. Americans, when explained the health care plan without shouters and hate mongers, favor the plan. You guys tried scare tactics..and you may even win some seats in November, but it will all be based on lies and fright. The general populace is close to figuring out the fraud that is the republican party.

You Cons made fun of Clinton for all his years as running per the polls...now you are sp spinning that Obama should run to what the polls tell him is politically safe. Fuck that. Pass the bill and fuck the republicans in the ass! You fuckers contributed zero to the argument. You are out of ideas. Your party is only alive because Obama took on a deeply serious problem that with the exception of Clinton, no president ever had the balls to fight. Hahaha, have your cake and your November...I'll take this important bill anyday.

Liar, liar, pants on fire! You guys sound like a bunch of school kids. It ain't just the R's Deano. Give me a break. There is enough political spin (bullshit) spewed by both parties to make you puke.

I don't agree with you regarding reasons the majority of the "American People" oppose the health care bills being offered. I get sick of people saying the "American People" want it, when clearly a majority doesn't. By the way, it pisses me off when I'm not considered an "American People." First I was no longer a "working man," now I'm not an "American People" as well. Fuck me. I digress.

The health care problem is a complex one that I don't have an answer for. Not speaking for everyone, but I am opposed to the various proposals for numerous reasons. Mainly because of my fear the government will fuck it up. What haven't they? An overwhelming reason is the rationale that a large part of it will be paid for by savings in waste and fraud. If that is the case...why haven't they been doing that already????

The R's and D's are a problem. However, who are not being mentioned, and in reality are a huge part of the problem, are the 1000s and 1000s of bureaucrats in Washington that really drive the government. At least congressmen go home and visit the real world a couple of times a year. The bureaucrats have little clue about the real world. You could have one term limits on congress and we'd still be screwed. Clean house on the life long bureaucrats, we may have a chance.

Also, they ought to be looking at the current pension crisis. The situation out there regarding defined benefit pensions is huge and being ignored. It isn't being discussed at all in DC, but should be. There are billions of $$ in unfunded liabilities in pensions across the country. While the whole defined benefit pension model is flawed, it might have worked if the government wouldn't have imposed rediculous limitations on cash reserves back in 1990 (I think 90). Another example on how the government screws things up. When the market turned, the pension plans did not have the reserves to protect from it...thanks to government regulations. The model depends on the current workers paying the way for the current retirees. If workers or work hours drop, you're screwed. If the stock market crashs at the same time, your screwed where you don't want to be, without lubrication. This leaves today's workers with little pension opportunities, while they pay for the current retirees. If each worker was responsible for themselves, ie, defined contribution plan, we wouldn't be in this situation. Not sure why I digressed again...but it is Friday and I have spent much of my week working on this with our union fund.

[Lula]

scott brown's win was not based on health care, MA has their "socialized" plan and he even voted for it. to oppose reform to the system is wrong. as far as not agreeing with "the bill," there isn't even an actual bill, just drafts of versions. to create competition is what a capitalistic society does.

[Rockindeano]

No. Fuck you republicans. You're getting the Bill passed like it or not. You tried to skew the facts and scare the uneducated folk about this bill. You offered not one single idea, made no effort whatsoever to help it, now you get to take it up the ass. Good. Elections have consequences. You lost, lost big, because well, you fucked this place up beyond recognition, and drove the country into the ground. Now Obama and the Dems are faced with fixing the problem,and heath care, 1/6th of the economy is next in line. It needs to be reformed. The only thing bad about this bill is it doesn't go far enough. It needs the Public Option in it. I guess it's politics though, and the asshole right just was obnoxious enough to prevent this from being a truly great piece of legislation. The US is an embarrassment in health care. Don't come in here and tell me we're number 1 in anything, when not all citizens have access to it. If it's not for everyone, it's not legitimate. So next week, when this thing passes, please don't freak out and hang yourselves.

We'll take our chances in November. You better keep hoping the economy doesn't take off too quickly though..all signs point to a nice robust recovery. Timing is everything. Obama will get credit for the improved economy that you all fucked up, so I can't see you idiots winning in 2012. Good luck though.

[7 Wishes]

Wrong -- opposing this bill is the moral thing to do. The product AND the process are wholly wrong, and the American people are shouting this from the rooftops. And it's the process as much as the bill itself that is making Americans wretch. The Democrat Party is essentially giving a big middle finger to the country about the notion of "consent of the governed", and Americans know this.

Second, passing this bill will not "fuck the republicans in the ass" -- quite the opposite, my friend. It's going to fuck-in-the-ass all those Democratic congressmen in red states in swing districts -- they're all going to get wiped out in November. We're looking at catastrophic losses for the Dems right now (as Caddell and Schoen repeatedly mention). And here's the kicker: the Obama administration had absolutely no "mandate" to push for this kind of lousy legislation, but dozens of congressmen who get elected this November .

First of all, while I respect the intelligent posts you make, I'd have to say you're empathy defective.

Also, both Rasmussen AND CNN polls show that ONCE INDEPENDENTS AND THE ELDERLY ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THE PLAN WOULD DO, a striking majority is IN FAVOR OF IT. Those who are "opposed" to it until they have been infomed of how it will work, and then become in favor of it, have merely, like you and so many others, been TOLD WHAT TO THINK by Fox.

[conversationpc]

No. Fuck you republicans. You're getting the Bill passed like it or not. You tried to skew the facts and scare the uneducated folk about this bill. You offered not one single idea, made no effort whatsoever to help it, now you get to take it up the ass.

That's been one of the biggest lies throughout this whole process. There've been several alternative ideas offered by Republicans...

1 - Allow people to purchase insurance across state lines.
2 - Tort reform
3 - Allow employees to own their own policies instead of their employers, making it easier for employees losing their jobs to keep their policies when they quit or lose their job.

There are at least half a dozen or more other ideas offered up by conservatives but you liars on the left keep saying the Repubs are just the party of no in this case. Flat out lie.

[conversationpc]

Also, both Rasmussen AND CNN polls show that ONCE INDEPENDENTS AND THE ELDERLY ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THE PLAN WOULD DO, a striking majority is IN FAVOR OF IT. Those who are "opposed" to it until they have been infomed of how it will work, and then become in favor of it, have merely, like you and so many others, been TOLD WHAT TO THINK by Fox.

Do you have links to these polls? I'd like to see them.

[Rockindeano]

They keep falling....we need 37 Dem Patriots to step forward and stop this socialistic nosense...kepp em coming Nancy..

Dem Rep Ben Chandler of Kentucky, a prominent Blue Dog who voted No last time but has since been undecided, will vote against the Senate bill.

Separately, Dem Rep Luis Gutierrez of Illinois, an influential member of the Congressional Hispanic caucus who voted Yes last time, is also a No vote, his spokesperson confirms.

You're pathetic. "We?" No, you selfish motherfuckers need 37 Dems. Good luck dude.