President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[donnaplease]

If you are poor or disadvantaged, you go public and can have a waiting period. Not for the GP, but for hospital non-emergency cases. Maybe 12 months even in some cases, but at the vesy least - you get it done FREE. NO CHARGE.

If I understand correctly, the issue with the US health system is that some people cannot get preceedures done as there is no "free" coverage for the poor (correct?) and the other MASSIVE problem, is that ANYTHING and EVERYTHING costs a fricking million dollars!!!

So even private health insured patients can be stuck with huge bills when not covered or an exception is found...

Thoughts?

Not exactly true, Andrew. We have Medicaid available to our poor citizens, and the care that they receive is the same as what I receive with my Blue Cross plan. We have a couple of problems with Medicaid though. One is that there are citizens who are either too proud, or too lazy to enroll in the benefits they may be eligible for. The other is that there are the 'other' class of people that like to take advantage of government programs. There are other programs available, indigent patient programs and such, for people who might benefit from them.

12 months is FOREVER is you have cancer, or intractable pain, or another condition that would typically be addressed much sooner. Being a health-care worker, I can't even fathom working in an environment where a patient has to wait that long for care. It's just not 'the American way' as I know it. I guess we're spoiled, but I just don't see us "going backward" with regard to our health care choices.

Health care bills are HUGE, I absolutely agree with that. I just (again) don't think this is the right way to fix the problem.

p.s. Under the government run health care program, would a woman be on a 12-month waiting list for that government-funded abortion...?

[Andrew]

12 months is FOREVER is you have cancer, or intractable pain, or another condition that would typically be addressed much sooner.

No one has to wait at all for these kinds of issues.

[Angel]

Not exactly true, Andrew. We have Medicaid available to our poor citizens, and the care that they receive is the same as what I receive with my Blue Cross plan. We have a couple of problems with Medicaid though. One is that there are citizens who are either too proud, or too lazy to enroll in the benefits they may be eligible for. The other is that there are the 'other' class of people that like to take advantage of government programs. There are other programs available, indigent patient programs and such, for people who might benefit from them.

The other problem, as I've mentioned before, is that Medicaid reimbursment rates are a joke. In Idaho they reimburse 40% and there is no way to recover the extra 60% so most pracitioners actually lose money on Medicaid. This is part of the reason that health care costs are so high.

I don't know about other areas of the country, but we have a large number of illegal immigrants that just flat out don't pay for health care. It's not uncommon for someone that is here illegally to present to the hospital or the doc's office for care and give a fake name and address and therefore, no way to find them for payment. Even the ones that do give a correct name and address often just don't pay the bill and there's not a lot that can be done about it since they simply have no assets at all.

It is a complicated problem that does need to reform of some kind, I'm just not sure the current proposed plan is going to improve the situation any.

[Ehwmatt]

It is a complicated problem that does need to reform of some kind, I'm just not sure the current proposed plan is going to improve the situation any.

That's because the issues that ARE being addressed by the current bill/powers that be/their rhetoric are just the hot-button left-wing "RAH RAH! GO GET EM!" issues that get the left-wingers all hard and wet in their pants. It's totally disingenuous for them to sit there and vilify insurance companies, big pharma, health care providers, businesses etc. and to totally ignore other giant elephants in the room like tort reform, the immigration problem, and the myriad problems that PLAGUE Medicare and Medicaid, including fraud, which siphons 10% of the net national expenditures on health care from the coffers EVERY single year (that's in the billions, fyi).

Cost is a problem, no doubt, and the insurance/pharma companies deserve some of the flak they take. But, they're not the sole reasons for the cost issue. If they framed the issue more precisely and honestly, that is, framed it in terms of a health care COST problem, rather than a health care SYSTEM problem, they might be more persuasive in proposing changes. A lot of skeptics get lost from the get-go when they sit there and say our health care "system" is one of "the worst" when you have every rich sheikh, king, princess and celebrity asshole coming from Saudi Arabia, Canada, Europe etc. to get top-level specialty care that is available here. The quality and system of care are not the problem. The cost is its own variable/issue. Most people, particularly the great people who work in the health care profession, really become close-minded when they hear them frame the issue in such an arrogant and dishonest way.

There's also the little-talked about issue of the costs for becoming a doctor or other health care professional in this country. In this country, it takes by far the longest and most expensive to merely become a medical professional relative to other countries where you can at least go straight to medical school instead of four years of undergrad, if not spend far less or even nothing on the requisite education. I don't have time to look up the number, but the average debt load for your average American medical student is absurdly in the six figures. You cannot expect these people, the nobleness of their profession notwithstanding, to sit there and work for anything less than a six figure salary. As it is, after insurance, operating costs, and loan payments, general practitioners really don't make that awesome of a living at all compared to what they go through to get there. They always talk about how we don't have enough preventative and primary care physicians, which is true, but that's because the draconian regulations, insurance things, and the pathetic Medicaid/Medicare reimbursement rates make becoming a primary care physician so damn unattractive after realizing the massive hoops one must navigate throughout his/her career as a gen prac.

It's unfortunate the demagogues on both sides won't take a holistic look at the issue. Instead, they have to sit there and get their respective lemmings riled up about the villain of their choice, be it insurance companies, big business, and big pharma for the left-wing sycophants or the plaintiffs' bar on the right.

So long as it's that way, whatever gets done by whomever does it will be a bad fix.

[Triple S]

Leave then, see if I care. There are plenty of practicing physicians ready and willing to take their place. There's a new sherrif in town, and things are changing Cons. Get used to it.

Just amazing that you people can support a broken system, one that favors the almighty insurance company, and pisses on the American citizen. Just amazing. People are dying in this country for lack of health care, and to think if they simply lived north of us, they wouldn't have to die. Think about that. I mean after all, you are the party of "right to life" correct? What a hypocrisy the republican party is.

Fuck you're useless if you are listening to Michael Moore again, he said the same shit today about Canada. Lying POS fat fuck Moore ain't worth pissing on if he's on fire. Why in the hell did the Premier of Newfoundland come to the US for heart surgery for if Canada is so fucking good..hmmmmmmm?

You aren't worth the time of day. Canada's health care is 100% better than Americas. Everyone is covered.

Owned.

huh?

It is Pete, 100% true. Don't believe the stories Fox feeds you. Up there, everyone is covered, and pre-existing health problems are not an issue. Do you have to wait a week or two for something that's not serious? Perhaps, but anyone who lives there will tell you, it's far better than the system we have down here. How can anyone say the US helath system is the best, or even good? My god, a fourth of the citizens have NO access to it! Of course I am full of hot air...but the World ranking for the US is I believe 17th? I need to check that, but you get my point. No system is the best if all of it's citizens can't enjoy the same benefits, period.

Canada gets it. The USA could learn a lot about from that place.

All good until it takes you 3 months to get to see the doctor. That doesn't work when you are near death.

Again, more unsubstantiated bullshit. It's simply not true. Why don't you ask people who actually have lived there, or do live there? Deb on this Board lives there and wouldn't trade it for anything.

As do I, and I wouldn't trade it for anything either. Yes, we have problems in some areas of the country - but I certainly don't have to wait 3 months to see a doctor. In fact, I just made an appointment on Monday, saw the doctor today, have an appointment for an x-ray tomorrow. It may take a few days to get the results. Again, not everyone in the country has the same story, but I have no complaints.

[hoagiepete]

The cost of becoming a doc vs the potential long term reward willl forever be ignored by the libs. These are the same folks that don't understand the risk/reward principal when it comes to individuals or companies wanting to do things for a profit. They (libs) can't, or don't want to, accept the fact that without a potential for reward, no one will invest the time or money it takes to take the RISKS necessary to build businesses and create jobs. Profits are not a bad thing people. Without the potential for it, innovation will be gone. Without the potential for reward, would we have the medical advances we have experienced the past few decades?

People keep saying things about "free" medical coverage. Come on...nothing is free. Someone is paying for it!

Again, the biggest issue I have with the health care debate is the fact that funding it is based on billions of dollars in savings from waste and inefficiences in Medicare/Medicaid. If that is the case, why do we need legislation? Eliminate the waste now!!!! Makes no sense.

[Don]

We are the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't insure all of its citizens. There must be a reason why all the other first world nations have gotten on board with it.

[Rockindeano]

It is a complicated problem that does need to reform of some kind, I'm just not sure the current proposed plan is going to improve the situation any.

That's because the issues that ARE being addressed by the current bill/powers that be/their rhetoric are just the hot-button left-wing "RAH RAH! GO GET EM!" issues that get the left-wingers all hard and wet in their pants.

I love you Matty, I really do, but I stopped reading after you wrote this. The bill doesn't go far enough for the left. I personally don't think it goes nearly far enough. However, like Kucinich today, he changed his way and now is a "yes" vote, this process and this issue will likely have to be implemented incrementally. Obama wins this battle, and he will, it will be a good thing for him, and he will gain some political capital. That is simply the truth.

Matt, I know you are a conservative, and i won't cross you as a person, because I can tell you are a stand up guy, but you know reform is needed, in every way, shape and form, and that this bill, has been distorted by the right from day one; They deliberately lied and falsified the contents of the bill, their leader Sarah Palin outright lied about "death panels" which everyone with a brain and an ounce morality, knows that such a thing doesn't hold water, and they 100% lied and smeared the bill.

Sorry Matt, this bill is going to pass; Pelosi doesn't lose the important battles- she is a tough bitch. Obama is finally leading like he did on the campaign trail. If he stays on message, his presidency will be back on track in no time.

[Ehwmatt]

It is a complicated problem that does need to reform of some kind, I'm just not sure the current proposed plan is going to improve the situation any.

That's because the issues that ARE being addressed by the current bill/powers that be/their rhetoric are just the hot-button left-wing "RAH RAH! GO GET EM!" issues that get the left-wingers all hard and wet in their pants.

I love you Matty, I really do, but I stopped reading after you wrote this. The bill doesn't go far enough for the left. I personally don't think it goes nearly far enough. However, like Kucinich today, he changed his way and now is a "yes" vote, this process and this issue will likely haver to be implemented incrementally. Obama wins this battle, and he will, it will be a good thing for him, and he will gain some political capital. That is simply the truth.

Matt, I know you are a conservative, and i won't cross you as a person, because I can tell you are a stand up guy, but you know reform is needed, in every way, shape and form, and that this bill, has been distorted by the right from day one; They deliberately lied and falsified the contents of the bill, their leader Sarah Palin outright lied about "death panels" which everyone with a brain and an ounce morality, knows that such a thing doesn't hold water, and they 100% lied and smeared the bill.

Sorry Matt, this bill is going to pass; Pelosi doesn't lose the important battles- she is a tough bitch. Obama is finally leading like he did on the campaign trail. If he stays on message, his presidency will be back on track in no time.

You should read what I wrote if you really stopped, you might be surprised.

As far as the bill passing, I'm not going to predict one way or the other. Pelosi is a revolting **** though, just in case inquiring minds wanted to know

[Rockindeano]

We are the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't insure all of its citizens. There must be a reason why all the other first world nations have gotten on board with it.

Profit on sick people, selfishness, and greed. Welcome to America.

[Rockindeano]

As far as the bill passing, I'm not going to predict one way or the other. Pelosi is a revolting **** though, just in case inquiring minds wanted to know

I am not a huge fan of Pelosi, but why is she a kunt? Becuse she is liberal? From San Francisco? You don't agree with her? She wins?

[donnaplease]

We are the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't insure all of its citizens. There must be a reason why all the other first world nations have gotten on board with it.

Profit on sick people, selfishness, and greed. Welcome to America.

Kinda like those personal injury lawyers like John Edwards, eh?

Question for those living outside the US: What happens in your country (where socialized medicine exists) if someone un-covered (illegal alien, etc) comes to a hospital for care? Are they treated? Nat touched on this earlier, but that's one of the HUGE reasons for skyrocketing health care costs. ERs in America turn NO ONE away for emergency care. They actually treat non-emergency care there too, because these types of folks know that they can go there to receive treatment and not have to worry about paying for it. Our emergency rooms are treated as walk-in clinics, and sometimes it bogs down the system for true emergencies.

I guess one could argue that's a case of America's compassion, huh?

[Duncan]

In the UK my understanding is that Accident & Emergency treatment is free for everyone, whether you're in the country legally or not. The attached link sets out the position for anyone who is interested.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/you ... abroad.htm

[donnaplease]

In the UK my understanding is that Accident & Emergency treatment is free for everyone, whether you're in the country legally or not. The attached link sets out the position for anyone who is interested.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/you ... abroad.htm

Didn't read your link, because I take your word for it. Another question (and I'm showing my ignorance here) is, do you guys see a lot of 'illegal immigrants' come to the UK? Our border towns are crazy full of them, and they are (from my understanding) a big part of the problem. Hell, I live in podunk, Virginia, and because our region has a lot of poulty plants, we have a lot of mexicans in our area. Whenever I go into the ER, I invariably see someone of hispanic culture there, usually with a kid with a snotty nose that should have been treated at a local doctors office. Obviously I have no way of knowing if they are in the country legally or not, and I realize that I am being stereotypical, but it is a reality of our society. Just don't know if other countries have the same type of experience.

[Duncan]

I find that a difficult question to answer. I don't have any figures on illegal immigrants in the UK. Whatever the figure is, your perception of whether it is a lot is likely to depend on your own experience of them. I certainly hear people blaming illegal immigrants for a lot of things. Personally, I've never met an illegal immigrant and can't say whether i have ever seen one!

[Andrew]

Question for those living outside the US: What happens in your country (where socialized medicine exists) if someone un-covered (illegal alien, etc) comes to a hospital for care? Are they treated?

Yeah. But we don't have many illegals here, as its a fricking long way from anywhere and completely surrounded by oceans. You have to fly in or boat in, and customs are all over both

[Michigan Girl]

Question for those living outside the US: What happens in your country (where socialized medicine exists) if someone un-covered (illegal alien, etc) comes to a hospital for care? Are they treated?

Yeah. But we don't have many illegals here, as its a fricking long way from anywhere and completely surrounded by oceans. You have to fly in or boat in, and customs are all over both

We make it so easy!!! Welcome to America ... they misunderstand "land of the free"!!

[Rockindeano]

Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

By JOHN MILLER (AP) – 15 hours ago

BOISE, Idaho — Idaho took the lead in a growing, nationwide fight against health care overhaul Wednesday when its governor became the first to sign a measure requiring the state attorney general to sue the federal government if residents are forced to buy health insurance.

Similar legislation is pending in 37 other states.

Constitutional law experts say the movement is mostly symbolic because federal laws supersede those of the states.

But the state measures reflect a growing frustration with President President Barack Obama's health care overhaul. The proposal would cover some 30 million uninsured people, end insurance practices such as denying coverage to those with pre-existing conditions, require almost all Americans to get coverage by law, and try to slow the cost of medical care nationwide.

Democratic leaders hope to vote on it this weekend.

With Washington closing in on a deal in the months-long battle over health care overhaul, Republican state lawmakers opposed to the measure are stepping up opposition.

Otter, a Republican, said he believes any future lawsuit from Idaho has a legitimate shot of winning, despite what the naysayers say.

"The ivory tower folks will tell you, 'No, they're not going anywhere,' " he told reporters. "But I'll tell you what, you get 36 states, that's a critical mass. That's a constitutional mass."

Last week, Virginia legislators passed a measure similar to Idaho's new law, but Otter was the first state chief executive to sign such a bill, according to the American Legislative Exchange Council, which created model legislation for Idaho and other states. The Washington, D.C.,-based nonprofit group promotes limited government.

"Congress is planning to force an unconstitutional mandate on the states," said Herrera, the group's health task force director.

Otter already warned U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in December that Idaho was considering litigation. He signed the bill during his first public ceremony of the 2010 Legislature.

"What the Idaho Health Freedom Act says is that the citizens of our state won't be subject to another federal mandate or turn over another part of their life to government control," Otter said.

Do you even read what you post? You are laughable and not too smart.

Allow me to highlight what the article YOU posted contains. It explains what the Obama Health Care Plan would do:

"The proposal would cover some 30 million uninsured people, end insurance practices such as denying coverage to those with pre-existing conditions, require almost all Americans to get coverage by law, and try to slow the cost of medical care nationwide."

Yeah FF, I can certainly understand why Idaho would be so dead set against a plan that achieved all of this, and will save 130 billion dollars in the first 10 years after the bill is signed.


Don't you ever stop to think, or read the bullshit you post?

[separate_wayz]

This bill -- if enacted into law -- will most assuredly not save $130 billion in ten years. Any CBO scoring merely accepts that all assumptions actually occur in real life as assumed. For legislative scoring, CBO uses a ten-year window. In this particular bill, there are 10 years of tax increases with only 6 years of benefits. It's a straightforward gimmick to get the CBO estimate under the politically sensitive threshold of $1 trillion. (This figure of course ignores the unfunded mandate put on states of picking up the cost of enrolling more people into Medicaid.)

In the real world, legislative assumptions never play out the way they're assumed for purposes of CBO scoring, ever. This is why the release of the CBO numbers are a ho-hum. They're a fiction. Nobody in Washington believes that this bill will save a dime.

[Rockindeano]

New York Democrat Michael Arcuri announced earlier today to his colleagues that he would not vote for the House reconciliation package on ObamaCare, essentially negating the flip from Dennis Kucinich yesterday:

Also just heard that Rep. Lynch (D) Mass. has fliped from a yes to no.

So if you can't get enough "no" votes to block it, then your hope is on overturning it via state lawsuits. LOL. You do know that Federal law in this case will trump state law, right? Hate to tell you this FF, but you aren't going to block this- Pelosi has the votes. She wouldn't bring it to the floor without sufficient numbers. And there is no way this will be overturned by the state of Idaho. This is laughable. I have never seen so many people want to stop something so badly, and stop something that will help millions of people. Just don't understand you folks.

[Rockindeano]

Now the fucker is begging...why the fuck is it all about him and those he represents?

In a pitch aimed at convincing skeptical members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus to back the Senate version of the bill, Obama told them that the “fate of his presidency” depended on winning this vote:

President Barack Obama had exhausted most of his health care reform arguments with members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus during a White House meeting last Thursday when he made a more personal pitch that resonated with many skeptics in the room.

One caucus member told POLITICO that Obama won him over by “essentially [saying] that the fate of his presidency” hinged on this week’s health reform vote in the House. The member, who requested anonymity, likened Obama’s remarks to an earlier meeting with progressives when the president said a victory was necessary to keep him “strong” for the next three years of his term.

Another caucus member, Rep. Jose Serrano (D-N.Y.), said, “We went in there already knowing his presidency would be weakened if this thing went down, but the president clearly reinforced the impression the presidency would be damaged by a loss.” …

The fate of his presidency DOES depend on this vote. And if he loses, he is done as president. One term, nothing else he wants comes close to becoming law. And with him will go every fucking Democrat. I hope all these Blue Dogs lose re-election. They're not real Dems anyway. The only reason they won is because W was so fucking bad, that GOP voters wouldn't touch a candidate with an R next to their name.

[Rockindeano]

So it begins.....

SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: I want to send a couple of messages to my colleagues in the House.

If you voted no and you vote yes, and you lose your election, and you think any nomination to a federal position isn't going to be held in the Senate, I've got news for you. It's going to be held.

Number two is, if you get a deal, a parochial deal for you or your district, I've already instructed my staff and the staff of seven other senators that we will look at every appropriations bill, at every level, at every instance, and we will outline it by district, and we will associate that with the buying of your vote. So, if you think you can cut a deal now, and it not come out until after the election, I want to tell you that isn't going to happen. And be prepared to defend selling your vote in the House.

I'll be sure to take this clown seriously. It's exactly like all the republican governors who railed against the stimulus package, saying that they would refuse the money because they were against it, and that is was a colossal waste of money, yet, every single republican governor who said that, ended up taking it all, lol, even posing for photo ops with the big fake cardboard check.

HYPOCRISY. What republicans stand for.

[separate_wayz]

Now the fucker is begging...why the fuck is it all about him and those he represents?

In a pitch aimed at convincing skeptical members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus to back the Senate version of the bill, Obama told them that the “fate of his presidency” depended on winning this vote:

President Barack Obama had exhausted most of his health care reform arguments with members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus during a White House meeting last Thursday when he made a more personal pitch that resonated with many skeptics in the room.

One caucus member told POLITICO that Obama won him over by “essentially [saying] that the fate of his presidency” hinged on this week’s health reform vote in the House. The member, who requested anonymity, likened Obama’s remarks to an earlier meeting with progressives when the president said a victory was necessary to keep him “strong” for the next three years of his term.

Another caucus member, Rep. Jose Serrano (D-N.Y.), said, “We went in there already knowing his presidency would be weakened if this thing went down, but the president clearly reinforced the impression the presidency would be damaged by a loss.” …

The fate of his presidency DOES depend on this vote. And if he loses, he is done as president. One term, nothing else he wants comes close to becoming law. And with him will go every fucking Democrat.

.... and THAT, as much as anything, sums up the current debate. In fact, there is no debate per se. Pad Caddell and Doug Schoen were right: the battle for public opinion is over, and the Democrats lost. The debate's over. Nobody believes that this bill will reduce the deficit (it will, in fact, explode it outward). Nobody believes that this bill will improve the health care system (it will, in fact, worsen existing problems and create new ones).

All the scurrying around on Capitol Hill is about saving the President's hide. And that's a terrible reason to pass this bill. Some of the delusional folks around here (and elsewhere) believe that Americans will embrace the bill "once they learn what's in it". Malarkey. Once they learn the details of the bill (and hear about all the deals, giveaways, and kickbacks necessary to pass it), they will be outraged .... and Obama's credibility (and poll ratings) will plummet.

[Rockindeano]

Now the fucker is begging...why the fuck is it all about him and those he represents?

In a pitch aimed at convincing skeptical members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus to back the Senate version of the bill, Obama told them that the “fate of his presidency” depended on winning this vote:

President Barack Obama had exhausted most of his health care reform arguments with members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus during a White House meeting last Thursday when he made a more personal pitch that resonated with many skeptics in the room.

One caucus member told POLITICO that Obama won him over by “essentially [saying] that the fate of his presidency” hinged on this week’s health reform vote in the House. The member, who requested anonymity, likened Obama’s remarks to an earlier meeting with progressives when the president said a victory was necessary to keep him “strong” for the next three years of his term.

Another caucus member, Rep. Jose Serrano (D-N.Y.), said, “We went in there already knowing his presidency would be weakened if this thing went down, but the president clearly reinforced the impression the presidency would be damaged by a loss.” …

The fate of his presidency DOES depend on this vote. And if he loses, he is done as president. One term, nothing else he wants comes close to becoming law. And with him will go every fucking Democrat.

.... and THAT, as much as anything, sums up the current debate. In fact, there is no debate per se. Pad Caddell and Doug Schoen were right: the battle for public opinion is over, and the Democrats lost. The debate's over. Nobody believes that this bill will reduce the deficit (it will, in fact, explode it outward). Nobody believes that this bill will improve the health care system (it will, in fact, worsen existing problems and create new ones).

All the scurrying around on Capitol Hill is about saving the President's hide. And that's a terrible reason to pass this bill. Some of the delusional folks around here (and elsewhere) believe that Americans will embrace the bill "once they learn what's in it". Malarkey. Once they learn the details of the bill (and hear about all the deals, giveaways, and kickbacks necessary to pass it), they will be outraged .... and Obama's credibility (and poll ratings) will plummet.

How does it feel to have to hope the opposing party fails, in order to become relevant? What's the feeling like to be in a party that just says "no," scares people with lies and deceit. preys on the elderly with distorted views, and has no ideas whatsoever to help the current situation?

Pathetic really.

[separate_wayz]

Now the fucker is begging...why the fuck is it all about him and those he represents?

In a pitch aimed at convincing skeptical members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus to back the Senate version of the bill, Obama told them that the “fate of his presidency” depended on winning this vote:

President Barack Obama had exhausted most of his health care reform arguments with members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus during a White House meeting last Thursday when he made a more personal pitch that resonated with many skeptics in the room.

One caucus member told POLITICO that Obama won him over by “essentially [saying] that the fate of his presidency” hinged on this week’s health reform vote in the House. The member, who requested anonymity, likened Obama’s remarks to an earlier meeting with progressives when the president said a victory was necessary to keep him “strong” for the next three years of his term.

Another caucus member, Rep. Jose Serrano (D-N.Y.), said, “We went in there already knowing his presidency would be weakened if this thing went down, but the president clearly reinforced the impression the presidency would be damaged by a loss.” …

The fate of his presidency DOES depend on this vote. And if he loses, he is done as president. One term, nothing else he wants comes close to becoming law. And with him will go every fucking Democrat.

.... and THAT, as much as anything, sums up the current debate. In fact, there is no debate per se. Pad Caddell and Doug Schoen were right: the battle for public opinion is over, and the Democrats lost. The debate's over. Nobody believes that this bill will reduce the deficit (it will, in fact, explode it outward). Nobody believes that this bill will improve the health care system (it will, in fact, worsen existing problems and create new ones).

All the scurrying around on Capitol Hill is about saving the President's hide. And that's a terrible reason to pass this bill. Some of the delusional folks around here (and elsewhere) believe that Americans will embrace the bill "once they learn what's in it". Malarkey. Once they learn the details of the bill (and hear about all the deals, giveaways, and kickbacks necessary to pass it), they will be outraged .... and Obama's credibility (and poll ratings) will plummet.

How does it feel to have to hope the opposing party fails, in order to become relevant? What's the feeling like to be in a party that just says "no," scares people with lies and deceit. preys on the elderly with distorted views, and has no ideas whatsoever to help the current situation?

Pathetic really.

Takes chutzpah to use the phrase "lies and deceit" after defending this health care bill. That's pretty much all that's been used to sell it.

I guess I agree with James Taranto's piece in the Wall Street Journal this morning:

There seems to be an emotional desperation at work here. The legislative success of ObamaCare has become so tied up with Obama's sense of himself that he feels he must push ahead -- and to some extent, the leaders in Congress feel the same way. Obama is not the calm rationalist he seemed during the campaign. But while there's a place for passion in politics, to be governed by a politician who fails to govern his passions is a frightening and creepy experience.

Frightening and creepy indeed.

[Rockindeano]

ROTFLMAO.

Good luck Pubbies!

[RedWingFan]

This Jackass Obama makes W look like Abraham Lincoln. Remember Ellie Light from a few months ago? This guy's entire administration has been nothing but deceit and lies from the get go! All of you idiots who voted for and or defend this piece of shit should kill yourselves before November!


http://bigjournalism.com/richmondsexton ... lagiarism/

[separate_wayz]

ROTFLMAO.

Good luck Pubbies!

Might wanna save your best wishes and good lucks for the 6-10 Democratic senators and 50-70 Democratic congressmen who won't be returning to Washington after the November elections.

Not sure how Obama intends to pursue his agenda beyond 2010 when he has a split Senate and a GOP House, when he can't even deliver his own party right now.

[Rockindeano]

ROTFLMAO.

Good luck Pubbies!

Might wanna save your best wishes and good lucks for the 6-10 Democratic senators and 50-70 Democratic congressmen who won't be returning to Washington after the November elections.

Not sure how Obama intends to pursue his agenda beyond 2010 when he has a split Senate and a GOP House, when he can't even deliver his own party right now.

You must be brimming with pride, knowing your party is doing everything in it's power to stall and stop any legislation from getting done.

Congratulations, I guess. You really have indeed sunk this low; I for one didn't think it was possible for the republican party to be this much of a complete joke, but alas, it sure as fuck is.

[Rockindeano]

http://laststand.eventbrite.com/

--not related but it is---

Call to Arms: Join Me in DC Saturday to Stop ObamaCare

by Jon Voight

I am calling to all of you freedom-loving Americans to come once again to Washington D.C. to gather on the Capitol steps on Saturday, at 12 o’clock noon.

We must come by the thousands.

Speaker Pelosi will stop at nothing to fulfill her corrupt conquests. She will bring all of the corrupt ACORN liars to try to bully all the Democrats that may be having pangs of guilt knowing quite surely what their votes can and will do. If they’re bullied into saying “yes,” it will destroy America.

Be there in Washington DC at 12 noon EST so we can give all the Democrats who know what the end result will be the courage to say: “No, do not pass this destructive bill.”

I’ll see you there.

HAHA, now you are proudly promoting a bitter actor's mass emailings? What's next? I can't wait.

And you say we shouldn't listen to Michael Moore, but you trot Jon Voight out there!

This can't get any better. Seriously,I am in shock that you in fact are this fucking stupid.