behind the music remastered....

by **Ehwmatt** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:03 am

Rockindeano wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:
As someone who treads somewhat more of a middle ground here than either you or Dan, if Perry came back and toured with them, would you see them ? Just curious, since it seems the damage is permanent in your eyes.

LOL, good question. Thankfully Perry would never do that, as he knows what has happened and there is too much bad blood, but hypothetically speaking? Man, that's tough, but I would have to say no. What they did in my eyes was just criminal.

Let me ask you Matt, you play guitar. Brywool plays as well I believe. What if neal just played in concert to tape? I mean seriously, no one would know..No one would have a clue. However, what if one night something happened and a glitch occurred, and Neal was exposed? Wouldn't you feel cheated by all those years of aspiration by him, only to find that he was faking it when it counted? Seriously, where do we stop? An entire band, save for the drums, could do an entire fake tour, all recorded and no one would ever know. I guess that makes it ok "if they never get caught." So my question is, according to Dan, just be good in the studio, lay down the tracks, mime it on tour and don't get caught. We'll still pay to see you anyway." I don't know how to take that. It's beyond me and and I can't even grasp it.

Of course I'd feel cheated man. It'd be absurd.

I don't think the rationale is that "It's ok, so long as we don't get caught," even for the most abject apologists here and elsewhere. I think the point, at least in this thread, is that the general public wouldn't care about a story 4 years and 2 singers ago. I understand that and agree with it. Just look at all the bad shit celebs do all the time that gets forgotten mighty quick.

As far as whether to support the band again, if people like Pineda and can deal with the squawking and diction issues, that's their judgment call to make/their prerogative and I'll allow that. Once he gets caught lipping we are free to deride them as being ridiculously blind fans again. Dan keeps threatening to drag me to a Pineda show. I guess I'll just get drunk and go eventually in 2011.

by **Rockindeano** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:03 am

Saint John wrote:
You can try to spin this every which way but loose, but, in the end, you were the one hanging out with these guys and found them important enough to get to know personally, "chronicle" about (The Grey Goose Chronicles), fly around the country to hang with, drink and party with and exchange phone numbers with.

You're exactly right. I did. I was definitely given the red carpet. I was overwhelmed, however, I reserve the right to have a change of heart after some time.

. Me? I'm a dude that loves their live music and the get togethers with fellow fans and friends. Nothing more

This is exactly why Journey isn't taken seriously in real music critics eyes. They're just not a serious band and your statement mirrors that. This is exactly why they aren't in the RnR HOF and never will be. There's nothing wrong with it mind you, but I don't think mentioning the name "Journey" with the true greats has any merit. They simply don't deserve to be talked about alongside the Greats.

Arguing with you guys is futile.

by **Don** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:03 am

Man, three hours and a wake up. God, does excel suck sometimes.

by **Saint John** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:06 am

Rockindeano wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:
As someone who treads somewhat more of a middle ground here than either you or Dan, if Perry came back and toured with them, would you see them ? Just curious, since it seems the damage is permanent in your eyes.

LOL, good question. Thankfully Perry would never do that, as he knows what has happened and there is too much bad blood, but hypothetically speaking? Man, that's tough, but I would have to say no. What they did in my eyes was just criminal.

Let me ask you Matt, you play guitar. Brywool plays as well I believe. What if neal just played in concert to tape? I mean seriously, no one would know..No one would have a clue. However, what if one night something happened and a glitch occurred, and Neal was exposed? Wouldn't you feel cheated by all those years of aspiration by him, only to find that he was faking it when it counted? Seriously, where do we stop? An entire band, save for the drums, could do an entire fake tour, all recorded and no one would ever know. I guess that makes it ok "if they never get caught." So my question is, according to Dan, just be good in the studio, lay down the tracks, mime it on tour and don't get caught. We'll still pay to see you anyway." I don't know how to take that. It's beyond me and and I can't even grasp it.

You sure seemed to love them and be all-forgiving when Soto was at the helm. Dude, your Journey tour grid in 2007 looked like the Southwest Airlines "Where Do We Fly" chart. :lol:

by **Rockindeano** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:10 am

Saint John wrote:
You sure seemed to love them and be all-forgiving when Soto was at the helm. Dude, your Journey tour grid in 2007 looked like the Southwest Airlines "Where Do We Fly" chart.

Already copped to that. Try something new.

by **Saint John** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:34 am

Rockindeano wrote:
Saint John wrote:
You sure seemed to love them and be all-forgiving when Soto was at the helm. Dude, your Journey tour grid in 2007 looked like the Southwest Airlines "Where Do We Fly" chart.

Already copped to that. Try something new.

My point is that if it's still fun ... it's still fun. And it was for you ... and that's ok! No different for some of us now. You can't mandate your belief system and feelings on to others. That's all. But it is fun trying to. :wink:

by **Rockindeano** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:59 am

Saint John wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
Saint John wrote:
You sure seemed to love them and be all-forgiving when Soto was at the helm. Dude, your Journey tour grid in 2007 looked like the Southwest Airlines "Where Do We Fly" chart.

Already copped to that. Try something new.

My point is that if it's still fun ... it's still fun. And it was for you ... and that's ok! No different for some of us now. You can't mandate your belief system and feelings on to others. That's all. But it is fun trying to.

Well said Dan. However, I don't think I am trying to mandate my beliefs onto others at all, and if it seems that way I sincerely apologize, but at the same time I would to have others see why I feel the way I do, and that's it just sour grapes or anything like that. I got closer than 99% of the fans do, and for that I am thankful. I had loads of fun with the band(except JT who can suck cocks in Hell). That's all.

by **fredinator** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:30 am

Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.

by **Ehwmatt** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:36 am

fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.

Won't happen, ever.

Also, what bands lip synched to this extent in the 70s? I'm not aware of any, other than some of the old music tv shows that were OBVIOUSLY lipsynched.

by **fredinator** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:38 am

You don't what's going to happen or not. The Beach Boys is the first one right off hand.

Website · by **steveo777** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:06 am

fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.

Bad idea. Only a handful of die hard fans know what happened. I feel keeping it isolated to that is probably better than opening up a whole new can of worms, which is what would happen if this got spilled to the masses. Plus, it's an old wound that does not need opening up again. This might be a good case for sweeping something under the rug. It doesn't make it right but it's the lesser evil of what could potentially happen. If Neal and the band were to come clean at this point it might take so much time to rebuild the fanbase that ...well, there just might not be that much time. Not condoning what they did, but I also understand.

by **Don** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:32 am

steveo777 wrote:
fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.

Bad idea. Only a handful of die hard fans know what happened. I feel keeping it isolated to that is probably better than opening up a whole new can of worms, which is what would happen if this got spilled to the masses. Plus, it's an old wound that does not need opening up again. This might be a good case for sweeping something under the rug. It doesn't make it right but it's the lesser evil of what could potentially happen. If Neal and the band were to come clean at this point it might take so much time to rebuild the fanbase that ...well, there just might not be that much time. Not condoning what they did, but I also understand.

The issue wouldn't be about the fans, especially here in the U.S., It would be the potential lawsuits and loss of European promoters that would really hurt the band. Remember, when this came to light, it was over at one of the European festivals where some sound engineers were going on record about the situation being what it was.

Neal said this new album is aimed at artsy listening tastes of European fans even more so than the American ones, no way he does something to threaten that new market.

by **fredinator** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:34 am

Why hasn't Def Leppard been sued or have they?

by **Ehwmatt** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:36 am

It wouldn't be that easy to sue for this stuff...

Website · by **steveo777** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:39 am

Ehwmatt wrote:It wouldn't be that easy to sue for this stuff...

It would be easier if it had been continuous over time and was still happening, but you have to discipline the dog when he first shits on the rug, not years later.

by **Ehwmatt** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:41 am

steveo777 wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:It wouldn't be that easy to sue for this stuff...

It would be easier if it had been continuous over time and was still happening, but you have to discipline the dog when he first shits on the rug, not years later.

At this point, it'd be awfully difficult to legally prove the lipping and more importantly, even if you could, damages would be very hard to prove. Not to mention the statute of limitations on fraud actions usually expires in most states between 2-4 years, which we are obviously getting close to at this point.

by **Don** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:45 am

All someone has to do is call up Svante Pettersson and say they need him for a litigation suit that could bring him some cash. Not sure how statute of limitations works in Sweden.

by **Jana** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:45 am

fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.

They've been interviewed a ton over the last several years, since hiring Arnel, by GQ, on and on, lots of press during concert touring. No one asks nor brings it up. It is a nonissue at this point. Where do you see this talked about or rehashed anywhere anymore? Nowhere, really, but here.

Website · by **steveo777** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:48 am

Jana wrote:
fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.

They've been interviewed a ton over the last several years, since hiring Arnel, by GQ, on and on, lots of press during concert touring. No one asks nor brings it up. It is a nonissue at this point. Where do you see this talked about or rehashed anywhere anymore? Nowhere, really, but here.

It normally begins in Deano's mind, right here on these boards and we get pulled into it every time. :wink:

by **stevew2** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:57 am

fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.

They will never admit anything, they ve convinced them selves nothing happened, thats what compulsive liers do.Enhanced my ass, they preety much had Steve still sing and damage his voice even more and put a taped vocal out there. that is fuckin pathtic. It have been easier to take if he lipped 1 year and came back stong. They are retarded

by **RedWingFan** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:27 pm

Rockindeano wrote:
Saint John wrote:You can try to spin this every which way but loose, but, in the end, you were the one hanging out with these guys and found them important enough to get to know personally, "chronicle" about (The Grey Goose Chronicles), fly around the country to hang with, drink and party with and exchange phone numbers with.

You're exactly right. I did. I was definitely given the red carpet. I was overwhelmed, however, I reserve the right to have a change of heart after some time.
. Me? I'm a dude that loves their live music and the get togethers with fellow fans and friends. Nothing more

This is exactly why Journey isn't taken seriously in real music critics eyes. They're just not a serious band and your statement mirrors that. This is exactly why they aren't in the RnR HOF and never will be. There's nothing wrong with it mind you, but I don't think mentioning the name "Journey" with the true greats has any merit. They simply don't deserve to be talked about alongside the Greats.
Arguing with you guys is futile.

You're exactly right Dean. They're nothing but a traveling juke box anymore with a inferior vocalist. If the Journey name would have ended in '86 they'd be much more respected than they are now.

by **Ehwmatt** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:29 pm

stevew2 wrote:
fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.
They will never admit anything, they ve convinced them selves nothing happened, thats what compulsive liers do.Enhanced my ass, they preety much had Steve still sing and damage his voice even more and put a taped vocal out there. that is fuckin pathtic. It have been easier to take if he lipped 1 year and came back stong. They are retarded

holy shit, this is a ridiculously coherent post Steve. Pour yourself some wine immediately.

by **Angel** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:34 pm

Ehwmatt wrote:
stevew2 wrote:
fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.
They will never admit anything, they ve convinced them selves nothing happened, thats what compulsive liers do.Enhanced my ass, they preety much had Steve still sing and damage his voice even more and put a taped vocal out there. that is fuckin pathtic. It have been easier to take if he lipped 1 year and came back stong. They are retarded

holy shit, this is a ridiculously coherent post Steve. Pour yourself some wine immediately.

His girlfriend must have hacked into his account again. :lol:

by **S2M** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:36 pm

Angel wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:
stevew2 wrote:
fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.
They will never admit anything, they ve convinced them selves nothing happened, thats what compulsive liers do.Enhanced my ass, they preety much had Steve still sing and damage his voice even more and put a taped vocal out there. that is fuckin pathtic. It have been easier to take if he lipped 1 year and came back stong. They are retarded

holy shit, this is a ridiculously coherent post Steve. Pour yourself some wine immediately.

His girlfriend must have hacked into his account again.

I haven't seen Jason around all evening....

by **stevew2** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:40 pm

Rockindeano wrote:
Saint John wrote:
Gunbot wrote:The VH1 board would be spammed with lipsync threads, asking why that topic wasn't covered in the show.

... and no one would care.

Bullshit. People who have no idea would be shocked. Contrary to what you or Tito may think, it is a big deal. If not, why does Neal and Friga and even that dope Valory deny deny deny and even go as far as referring to us as a "bunch of alcoholics" and people "with drug problems" when asked about it? Dude, if the general population really knew, it would be huge news, considering the name brand, "Journey."

i agree with that, but frigas tears were fake as shit, the fucker can cry in a minute like he writes songs. he is a fuckin pro at that shit

by **Red13JoePa** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:27 am

Ehwmatt wrote:
fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.

Won't happen, ever.

Right.

And nor should it.

Because the part 20 or so posters all want them to admit to, in red, hasn't been "proven" anywhere except on these highly extra-legal and unofficial pages.

by **Don** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:37 am

Red13JoePa wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:
fredinator wrote:Maybe it's time to address this issue. Maybe Neal, if he feels it really needs to be addressed in light of all the other lip synching done by some great bands in the 70s, should tell the truth (whatever that might be since I'm not positive what happened)... Their singer was sick, they got in a terrible jam, they enhanced Augeri's vocals, and then they hired JSS to help them finish the tour. Maybe addressing it head on would allow them to put it behind them once and for all.

Won't happen, ever.

Right.

And nor should it.

Because the part 20 or so posters all want them to admit to, in red, hasn't been "proven" anywhere except on these highly extra-legal and unofficial pages.

Just curious here, were you or were you not a party to the hearing of an audio confession of said activities by said guitarist? No one believes anything said on these boards anyway so no need to feel that you are perjuring yourself here.