Obama apologizes to Donald Trump on CNN

[S2M]

Why was it a win for America? For closure? First of all, the idea of closure is vastly overrated. We really didn't need to know he was dead to feel a sense of safety....it has been 10 years. That warm, fuzzy american sappy patriotism BS lasted about 60 days after 9/11....then it was back to the staus quo....was this supposed to rally everyone back together? With gas prices on the north side of $4, with unemployment almost at 10%...and no reaching out across aisles....you really think a bunch of drunk college kids taking a swim is gonna change the landscape of the country?

OBL is dead....so what?

[S2M]

Great post, FF ...because you'll be slammed in a min...

I don't give a flying..well you know...


What's the word I'm looking for?.... Hollow victories...that's the ticket.

def..A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning.


mark my words gang.

It's gonna be more like a Pyrrhic victory.....

[Behshad]

Good grief Behshad..Obama has been bombing Libya for weeks now...you can get off of that invading the wrong Country bullshit.

Obama hasnt ! Nato and UN . Big difference. and last I checked none of our troops are IN Lybia. Huge difference between this and goin in a country and taking over

An invasion is a military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof. An invasion can be the cause of a war, be a part of a larger strategy to end a war, or it can constitute an entire war in itself. Due to the large scale of the operations associated with invasions, they are usually strategic in planning and execution.

[Behshad]

Good grief Behshad..Obama has been bombing Libya for weeks now...you can get off of that invading the wrong Country bullshit.

Obama hasnt ! Nato and UN . Big difference. and last I checked none of our troops are IN Lybia. Huge difference between this and goin in a country and taking over

An invasion is a military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof. An invasion can be the cause of a war, be a part of a larger strategy to end a war, or it can constitute an entire war in itself. Due to the large scale of the operations associated with invasions, they are usually strategic in planning and execution.

Well fuck me...didn't the UN and scores of other Countries give the OK to do Iraq? Why doesn't that count? I'll tell ya why, because a Pubbie did it.

They did !? I recall UN saying NO to the Iraq invasion, when Bush insisted that Iraq had WMD and he went in without giving a damn about what UN said . Are you THAT brainwashed by the radio guy, FB ?

[Behshad]

Oh and B, if you don't think we have boots on the ground in Libya spotting targets and laying the ground work for airstrikes, I've got a few of Deanos percs to sell ya?

We have boots on the ground in virtually any country in the world, but the Lybia war is totally different from Iraq war. Many things similiar yes,, both ruled by dictators , but the huge difference is, the PEOPLE of Lybia are demanding freedom and fighting for it, while in Iraq, we tried to force freedom on them.

[Behshad]

[Seven Wishes2]

Barry is not my hero. When he reneged on the tax cuts on the ultra rich - which would have cut the deficit in half - he just about lost me. That's why Romney is on my radar right now.

[Saint John]

They did !? I recall UN saying NO to the Iraq invasion, when Bush insisted that Iraq had WMD and he went in without giving a damn about what UN said . Are you THAT brainwashed by the radio guy, FB ?

Let's tell the whole story, though. I believe France, Russia and China exercised their veto power. And let's look at why:

Duelfer investigation

The Duelfer report, released on 30 September 2004, described in a key finding the impact of the Oil-for-Food Programme on Saddam's regime:

The final official version of the report cites only France, Russia and China (countries who were also strongly anti-war) as violators who paid kickbacks. The Duelfer report's list (volume 1, annex B, p. 302) of all "Known Oil Voucher Recipients" includes each recipient's nationality, as well as a chart broken down by nationality (figure 16, p. 166). The list indicates that 30 percent of the recipients were Russian; 15 percent were French; 10 percent were Chinese; 6 percent each were Swiss, Malaysian, and Syrian; and 4 percent each were Jordanian and Egyptian.

[donnaplease]

Of course Obama deserves credit for this, I can imagine no greater responsibility than making a decision that sends our armed forces into harm's way. Other than the helicopter malfunction it went off brilliantly (and even that was handled with precision from what I can tell). But let's put it all into perspective. BO flipped the switch to put all this into play. He gave the go-ahead. But he would have no clue how to proceed in this mission without the incredible capabilities of our intelligence forces and our special forces guiding him on how to proceed. None of us should be deceived into believing that BO is some military genius. I think his speech the other night was very good with ONE exception. I think he could have used a little more humility in describing the events that had taken place simply by re-wording some of his phrases and instead of saying "I" did this or that, maybe using a collective "we" to describe the team effort it took to make this thing go off so well. I appreciated that he mentioned GWB and wasn't ashamed to use the word "God" at the end of his speech. When watching the footage of the spontaneous crowds that gathered after this news broke, and the celebrations at the sporting events, etc, it's clear to me that this is not one man's victory, it is a victory for America. A true leader will take that and run with it, and in doing so I believe will earn more respect (and ultimately credit) than one who tries to suck up all the credit for himself.

On another note, thank you Carlitto for your continued service. I disagree with my boss sometimes, too.

[Seven Wishes2]

Donna, I don't know anyone who's not on the extreme far left who's said anything remotely like what you're asserting about Obama.

Like it or not, the GOP lost one of their major fear-mongering cards when this operation went down. They can no longer claim BO is soft on defense, international policy, or terrorism. It pins Republicans into a box where they can only really go after the economy next summer. Hate to tell you this, but things are MUCH better than they were when he took office. The global financial meltdown happened in 2008, one year before he became President.

This will, inevitably, give him a significant boost at the polls. However, if (heaven forbid), there is another successful terrorist attack against the U.S. in the next 18 months (which unfortunately is a very significant possibility), then all this political capital and then some will be spent.

Politics is only about what you've done for me lately. If the private sector continues to grow and unemployment keeps declining, and - if everything else remains status quo - even Romney won't be able to beat Obama in 2012. If one of those houses of cards falls, however, the White House will be there for the taking (unless the GOP somehow nominates a loony like Gingrich or an idiot like Palin).

[donnaplease]

Daniel, it's his style of leadership that I'm referring to. He had done it before in other speeches and it's rubbed me the wrong way. I understand why he does it to some extent, I just don't think it's necessary and it's not the way I get inspired by a leader. Saying things like "I determined..." about the intelligence and "at my direction..." the mission was carried out, while ultimately true I'm sure, could have been rephrased to something like "our national security team determined" or something like that. I'm sure you think it's menial or just picking on him, but I like a different communication style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V0ISgosTlQ

He's gonna get the credit for this because it happened on his watch (even though some of the work leading up to it may have occurred prior to his presidency) just as GWB got the 'credit' for 9/11 even though much of that work leading up to it was done prior to his presidency. We're a pretty simple people in that way I think. My hope is that we can use this as a stepping stone to unity as opposed to division, but in watching/listening to the pundits that hope is fading. We ARE the greatest nation on earth despite our bickering amongst ourselves, and it was just so great watching those spontaneous celebrations at the WH, Ground Zero, etc. I don't care who our politicians are - it felt awesome to be an American!!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

[Michigan Girl]

Of course Obama deserves credit for this, I can imagine no greater responsibility than making a decision that sends our armed forces into harm's way. Other than the helicopter malfunction it went off brilliantly (and even that was handled with precision from what I can tell). But let's put it all into perspective. BO flipped the switch to put all this into play. He gave the go-ahead. But he would have no clue how to proceed in this mission without the incredible capabilities of our intelligence forces and our special forces guiding him on how to proceed. None of us should be deceived into believing that BO is some military genius. I think his speech the other night was very good with ONE exception. I think he could have used a little more humility in describing the events that had taken place simply by re-wording some of his phrases and instead of saying "I" did this or that, maybe using a collective "we" to describe the team effort it took to make this thing go off so well. I appreciated that he mentioned GWB and wasn't ashamed to use the word "God" at the end of his speech. When watching the footage of the spontaneous crowds that gathered after this news broke, and the celebrations at the sporting events, etc, it's clear to me that this is not one man's victory, it is a victory for America. A true leader will take that and run with it, and in doing so I believe will earn more respect (and ultimately credit) than one who tries to suck up all the credit for himself.On another note, thank you Carlitto for your continued service. I disagree with my boss sometimes, too.

Very nice post, Donna, and I agree immensely!!
It's just human nature and holds true w/all humans ...
I, I, I, ME, ME, ME ...noone likes it,
no matter the political affiliation or what job/position a person holds~it's
one of those, there's no "I" in group effort, things ...and one of the
biggest no~no's in successful LEADERSHIP!!:wink:


Who the hell is so huge up there?!?

[RedWingFan]

yea yea yea. If Bush had FOCUSED on this task back in 2001, when he promised he would do so, he wouldve got the job done within couple years. He got way off track by ignoring Osama and focusing on Saddam who was MUCH less danger to OUR NATION!

Uhhh...It was al-Qaida facilitator Hassan Ghul, a terrorist captured in Iraq, who gave US officials information on the courier’s identity Behshad. Therefore a case can be made that we wouldn't have gotten OBL if we HADN'T gone into Iraq. Props to Bush for that?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -team.html

For the past two years, American spies had been monitoring the courier, known as Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, after learning his name four years ago, according to US officials.

When al-Kuwaiti made a phone call in 2010, he unknowingly led the Americans to the doorstep of the world’s most wanted terrorist. He was said to have been among those killed alongside Osama bin Laden in yesterday’s dramatic raid.

Secret American military files from Guantanamo Bay, leaked to Wikileaks and seen by The Daily Telegraph, suggest that al-Kuwaiti may have been with bin Laden ever since he disappeared from the Tora Bora mountains in Afghanistan in 2001…

…The file suggests that the courier’s identity was provided to the US by another key source, the al-Qaida facilitator Hassan Ghul, who was captured in Iraq in 2004 and interrogated by the CIA. Ghul was never sent to Guantanamo but was believed to have been taken to a prison in Pakistan.

He told the Americans that al-Kuwaiti travelled with bin Laden. The file states:

“Al-Kuwaiti was seen in Tora Bora and it is possible al-Kuwaiti was one of the individuals [al-Qahtani] reported accompanying UBL [bin Laden] in Tora Bora prior to UBL’s disappearance.”

The picture that emerges from al-Qahtani’s Guantanamo file supports statements given in the last 24 hours by US officials, who named Ghul as the “linchpin” in the intelligence operation to find bin Laden.

[RedWingFan]

Like I said on FaceBook... "Congratulations to President Obama for putting OBL in slightly worse shape than he's put the US economy in!!! Nice job."

[Behshad]

WOW ! Breaking News : Redwingfan drinking the same kool aid as Fact Bender

I'll never give any props to Bush , cause for every ONE good thing he did , he did hundreds of anti-human things. My sig speaks for itself

[Behshad]

WOW ! Breaking News : Redwingfan drinking the same kool aid as Fact Bender

I'll never give any props to Bush , cause for every ONE good thing he did , he did hundreds of anti-human things. My sig speaks for itself

The fact remains that the dude was caught in Iraq...what you think is irrelevant and your sig is not even remotely funny...but thanks for playing.

Not funny but true

So we should invade countries left and right and hope that by fluke we might capture one idiot that leads us to another. Meanwhile we spend our tax money and put the lives of our soldiers on the line ?!
Plus the Iraq invasion was to disarm Iraq from WMD. If you're suggesting that Bush went in there just to get info to lead into killing BinLaden , then you are as delusional as your "radio guy "

[Seven Wishes2]

Obama is extremely humble. If you're reading anything else into his statements it's because you want to and because you don't like him.

[Voyager]

WOW ! Breaking News : Redwingfan drinking the same kool aid as Fact Bender :shock:

[Seven Wishes2]

Not that it matters, but the most vital information was obtained via traditional CIA interrogation methods and NOT waterboarding.

In the end, who fucking cares? We got the bad guy Waterboarding is a violation of the Geneva convention and there is no real evidence it works. Move along.

[Behshad]

And the only difference between Bush and BinLaden is that one of them got away

[Behshad]

Not that it matters, but the most vital information was obtained via traditional CIA interrogation methods and NOT waterboarding.

In the end, who fucking cares? We got the bad guy Waterboarding is a violation of the Geneva convention and there is no real evidence it works. Move along.

Why do you just make stuff up?

CIA Director Leon Panetta stomped on the White House’s political script when he told Tuesday night’s broadcast of NBC Nightly News that the waterboarding of jihadi detainees contributed information that led to the location and killing of Osama bin Laden.

[Seven Wishes2]

Detainees gave us his nom de guerre or his nickname and identified him as both a protégé of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of September 11th, and a trusted assistant of Abu Faraj al-Libbi, the former number three of al Qaeda who was captured in 2005.

Detainees also identified this man as one of the few al Qaeda couriers trusted by bin Laden. They indicated he might be living with and protecting bin Laden. But for years, we were unable to identify his true name or his location.

Four years ago, we uncovered his identity, and for operational reasons, I can’t go into details about his name or how we identified him, but about two years ago, after months of persistent effort, we identified areas in Pakistan where the courier and his brother operated. [my emphasis]

In other words, while the CIA may have learned the courier’s nickname earlier, they didn’t learn his true name until “four years ago”–so late 2006 at the earliest. And they didn’t learn where the courier operated until around 2009.

From these dates we can conclude that either KSM shielded the courier’s identity entirely until close to 2007, or he told his interrogators that there was a courier who might be protecting bin Laden early in his detention but they were never able to force him to give the courier’s true name or his location, at least not until three or four years after the waterboarding of KSM ended. That’s either a sign of the rank incompetence of KSM’s interrogators (that is, that they missed the significance of a courier protecting OBL), or a sign he was able to withstand whatever treatment they used with him.

[Seven Wishes2]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/03/972665/-Rumsfeld-confirms:-Waterboarding-did-not-net-intelligence-that-led-to-binLaden

Prisoners in American custody told stories of a trusted courier. When the Americans ran the man’s pseudonym past two top-level detainees—the chief planner of the Sept. 11 attacks, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed; and Al Qaeda’s operational chief, Abu Faraj al-Libi—the men claimed never to have heard his name. That raised suspicions among interrogators that the two detainees were lying and that the courier probably was an important figure.
KSM was waterboarded 183 times and didn't give up the courier's name, the key bit of intelligence that located bin Laden (unless, as Armando jokes, those denials extracted from KSM and al-Libi were the key to figuring out this was the key guy).

Of course, if you want a real debunking, there's not a better source than one of the torture architects and apologists, one of the guys sitting in the room when the Bush administration principles choreographed torture, deciding which methods to use and how to combine various methods for maximum effect. One of the handful of those ghouls was Donald Rumsfeld, who says "harsh treatment" at CIA black sites didn't lead to bin Laden.

Dick Cheney said today that “it wouldn’t be surprising” the intel came from Bush’s torture program. However, there is currently no evidence to suggest that the detainees that provided the information that led to bin Laden were subject to torture. And Bush Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who presumably has some knowledge about what went on at Gitmo, today threw some cold water on this theory:
"The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding."

[Seven Wishes2]

Even good ol' Joey McCain says you're wrong, LieFinder.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54301.html

Sen. John McCain denounced “advanced interrogation” methods like waterboarding Wednesday amid a growing debate over its effectiveness reopened by the killing of Osama bin Laden.

McCain told reporters leaving an intelligence briefing for senators by CIA director Leon Panetta that he has seen no information so far to indicate that techniques like waterboarding factored significantly in the information gathering that led to bin Laden’s death

“So far I know of no information that was obtained, that would have been useful, by ‘advanced interrogation.’ In fact, according to published reports … some of the key people who knew about this courrier denied it,” McCain said, careful to note that he was not relaying information from Panetta’s classified session with Senate Intelligence and Armed Services Committee members.

[Behshad]

I think 7 caught something from FactBender... The C&P-disease

[Seven Wishes2]

Dude, Rumsfeld went on Fox last night to rebut that story, hell even Alan Colmes was praising him for those remarks. Rummy wanted to clarify for anyone who might listen ( hint: 7 ). Rummy said that waterboarding never happened at Gitmo.....waterboarding happened at two secret CIA Prisons in Poland and Czechoslovakia. And yes, it did provide important info, Rummy was irrefuteable on this point, so whoever translated your little falsehood at the DailyKos got it wrong. Something the left has no problem doing it seems.

Right, OK. Nice attempt at foot-in-mouth, on-the-fly, historical revision. It doesn't change the facts, or the other two sources, or all the CIA operatives who claim waterboarding is at best counter-productive.

[slucero]

I think Obama is cool. I voted for him and I even donated to his campaign.

I also vote for George Bush in 2000, but not in 2004. He ruined my faith in the GOP because all of the conservative economic ethics were tossed out the window. Clinton did a much better job with the economy. Obama is doing a pretty good job, but unless he gets the gasoline prices to drop, the economy will suffer.

Clinton and Bush never faced what Obama faced, and I do believe he stopped us from entering a full-blown depression.

WRONG... The only thing propping up the economy is Quantitative Easing by the Federal Reserve... except its more like "holding back" a Depression... a bit like holding you finger in a hole in a dam that keeps filing up.... and thats the rub...

Some look at the stock market and think the economy is doing great... except they don't realize that the Fed's low lending rate to banks gives them cheap money, which they borrow from the Fed at 0%, and play the market with... and buy Treasury Notes with.. which the Fed buys BACK...

Take QE away and the market crashes... most market pros know this... everyone is playing the volatility now.. no one is long anything...

[G.I.Jim]

Waterboarding kicks ass, and should be used every chance we get!