Ten killed in Denver movie shooting The Dark Knight Rises.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Yeah I didn't read an AK47 was involved, it was a AR-15.

[JRNYMAN]

Your evidence makes no sense as the whole thing happened during completely different surroundings, with 2 robbers having a completely different intentions : just after some chump change. This guy went in to KILL. If THIS PSYCHO wouldve gone in the same Cafe , with intentions of shooting and killing, chances are the 71 year old wouldve been shot long before he couldve reached for his weapon.

without the possibility of there even being CC carriers in the crowd (due to the ordinance).. there was no possibility for any response..

your assertion is not valid...

I dont need any validation from you. Your example was poor and not comparable to the tragedy in Colorado. End of story.

Now as far as how he got in through exits (not emergency exits, but the actual exit for people to use after the movie, there is a report now sayin he had ticket for the movie, went in , went through the exit , and prevented the exit door from closing completely, went to his car got the guns & mask etc and went back in.

Who gives a fuck how he gained access. It doesn't matter if he McGuyver'd his way in through a god damned mouse hole. He got fucking in with an AR-15, a shotgun and 2 mother fucking handguns and 2 canisters - presumably tear gas, and affected the lives of hundreds of people - 71 of whom will never be the same again after his "getting in".

Calm down ChaChi, Ginger asked above, I answered.

Sorry Bro.... didn't fully read the thread. {{Doing my best Gilda Radner/Emily Litella imression....}} Never mind.

[Behshad]

Your evidence makes no sense as the whole thing happened during completely different surroundings, with 2 robbers having a completely different intentions : just after some chump change. This guy went in to KILL. If THIS PSYCHO wouldve gone in the same Cafe , with intentions of shooting and killing, chances are the 71 year old wouldve been shot long before he couldve reached for his weapon.

without the possibility of there even being CC carriers in the crowd (due to the ordinance).. there was no possibility for any response..

your assertion is not valid...

I dont need any validation from you. Your example was poor and not comparable to the tragedy in Colorado. End of story.

Now as far as how he got in through exits (not emergency exits, but the actual exit for people to use after the movie, there is a report now sayin he had ticket for the movie, went in , went through the exit , and prevented the exit door from closing completely, went to his car got the guns & mask etc and went back in.

you must love the taste of sand in your mouth...

you must love comparing apples to oranges

[slucero]

Your evidence makes no sense as the whole thing happened during completely different surroundings, with 2 robbers having a completely different intentions : just after some chump change. This guy went in to KILL. If THIS PSYCHO wouldve gone in the same Cafe , with intentions of shooting and killing, chances are the 71 year old wouldve been shot long before he couldve reached for his weapon.

without the possibility of there even being CC carriers in the crowd (due to the ordinance).. there was no possibility for any response..

your assertion is not valid...

I dont need any validation from you. Your example was poor and not comparable to the tragedy in Colorado. End of story.

Now as far as how he got in through exits (not emergency exits, but the actual exit for people to use after the movie, there is a report now sayin he had ticket for the movie, went in , went through the exit , and prevented the exit door from closing completely, went to his car got the guns & mask etc and went back in.

you must love the taste of sand in your mouth...

you must love comparing apples to oranges

especially when they are both apples.. or both oranges...

[StevePerryHair]

Just because you're not SUPPOSED to carry a gun in that theater...were there metal detectors?? If not, I'm pretty sure people with licenses to carry would still carry them even in the theater. It's not necessarily LAW BUT company policy with these places. Unless you have metal detectors and frisking, then I would never say everyone was unarmed. In dark chais who the HELL is going to start shooting a gunman???

All of this argument is pointless anyway if he went out the exit to get the guns. AND if he could carry a gun in a gun free theater, anyone could or would. Even law abiding citizens.

[Behshad]

Your evidence makes no sense as the whole thing happened during completely different surroundings, with 2 robbers having a completely different intentions : just after some chump change. This guy went in to KILL. If THIS PSYCHO wouldve gone in the same Cafe , with intentions of shooting and killing, chances are the 71 year old wouldve been shot long before he couldve reached for his weapon.

without the possibility of there even being CC carriers in the crowd (due to the ordinance).. there was no possibility for any response..

your assertion is not valid...

I dont need any validation from you. Your example was poor and not comparable to the tragedy in Colorado. End of story.

Now as far as how he got in through exits (not emergency exits, but the actual exit for people to use after the movie, there is a report now sayin he had ticket for the movie, went in , went through the exit , and prevented the exit door from closing completely, went to his car got the guns & mask etc and went back in.

you must love the taste of sand in your mouth...

you must love comparing apples to oranges

especially when they are both apples.. or both oranges...

Guys going in a gas station with baseball bats and a handgun trying to get $20 from cash register =/= Psycho going in a movie theater at midnight with intentions to KILL.

This guy didnt go in for cash or any other intentions than killing some innocent people. How can you not understand this?

[The Sushi Hunter]

I guarrantee you that if anyone in that theater had a gun on them and knew how to use it they would have shot back. Again thats the difference between people who get a gun and carry it around but don't know how to use it and people who carry a gun and know how to use it.

[StevePerryHair]

I guarrantee you that if anyone in that theater had a gun on them and knew how to use it they would have shot back. Again thats the difference between people who get a gun and carry it around but don't know how to use it and people who carry a gun and know how to use it.

I guarantee you even people WITH guns would be struggling to grab their family members and get the hell out. Who says they could SEE him well in the dark? And not risk shooting innocents??? Even police don't shoot into a crowd.

[slucero]

Well, yeah.... I was referring to the AR-15 as the assault weapon. The other 3 are what they are. I guarantee you that kind of shit would never and WILL NEVER happen in Arizona. It seems like everybody has a CC permit and those who don, open carry. I swear to God, you've never seen so many firearms being worn so proudly as you do here. Men, women, college students, grannies (I shit you not!) We are some gun toting sons of bitches here!

thanks corrected it...

AR15 or AK47... largely irrelevant.. as both fire ballistically similar rounds that, at the range the perp was at... there would have been no difference..



The main point is that all of the weapons used are: 1 trigger pull = 1 shot


I think its also interesting that violent crme in the US is DOWN since 2008, and gun sales in the US have been at their highest, year over year since 2006.... again, more restrictive gun laws are not the answer... better licensing and training requirements are.

[JRNYMAN]

I guarrantee you that if anyone in that theater had a gun on them and knew how to use it they would have shot back. Again thats the difference between people who get a gun and carry it around but don't know how to use it and people who carry a gun and know how to use it.

DING DING DING!!! Amen!!!!!

[slucero]

Guys going in a gas station with baseball bats and a handgun trying to get $20 from cash register =/= Psycho going in a movie theater at midnight with intentions to KILL.

This guy didnt go in for cash or any other intentions than killing some innocent people. How can you not understand this?

I never questioned that... odd how you assumed that.


what part of: without the possibility of there even being CC carriers in the crowd (due to the ordinance).. there was no possibility for any response..

has anything to do with that?


My point to you was that you seem to feel that had there been others in the crowd who were armed that they would have likely:

• been shot
• shot others accidentally

.. and that's a possibility..

but its also highly likely they while engaging the perp, they would have distracted him from his original purpose.. and likely additional time would have been bought for others to escape, which is why I stated..


without the possibility of there even being CC carriers in the crowd (due to the ordinance).. there was no possibility for any response..


How can you not understand this?

[The Sushi Hunter]

From what I read, the guy was sticking out like a sore thumb, not like he was in a seat and then just jump up with guns blazing from within the crowd. He put everyone in the theater on short notice by tossing in a smoke and shooting the ceiling first. At this time, many of the witness's said that they thought it was some type of stunt or bullshit part of the show. So there was time to figure out who to shoot at. Unfortunately people in the theater reacted like deer in the headlights. People who know how to use a gun and carry it would have jumped on the opportunity to take this guy out, since afterall that is the purpose of carrying a weapon and knowing exactly how to use it. Have him try that shit at a police ball and see what the outcome would be then.

[TRAGChick]

...I completely and whole heartedly agree with the 2md amendment and we must have the right to bear arms.

However, the forefathers never dreamed that their carefully worded argument was important enough to place it 2nd in the list of rights they demanded, that it would include the kind of weaponry that could enable one individual to shoot 71 people in a matter of 120 seconds or so - 12 of them fatally.

71 people's lives will never be the same because of one sick bastard and the fact that he legally owned the kind of gun he did.
/rant

My Mom is in total agreement with your statement, in bold above.

She is soooo furious about this, she actually posted something on Facebook. She NEVER does that!

Today we witnessed yet again another senseless act of violence...I am feeling sad, angry and frustrated.

As I see it, the easy availability of guns to anyone with a credit card has got to stop.

I am tired of hearing about our "right to bear arms", which at the time it was written in the Constitution was for a much different reason...our freedom and independence from England! Now the NRA uses it to justify the "rights" of any wacko to get his hands on a gun.

Well, I'm just one citizen but today I wrote to my State Rep and Senator to urge them to consider a Constitutional amendment to end this craziness! Maybe if enough of us tell Congress we want a real change...we might get some action!

Anyway, we still have the right of "freedom of speech" so let's use it!

[StevePerryHair]

You people are RIDICULOUS. Anyone who learns to shoot aims for the mass... He had a vest on...what card carrying gun toter is going to shoot risking he turns the gun on him if he fails??? It was dark, full of tear gas, chaos... you people are living in a movie dream world.

[Behshad]

Guys going in a gas station with baseball bats and a handgun trying to get $20 from cash register =/= Psycho going in a movie theater at midnight with intentions to KILL.

This guy didnt go in for cash or any other intentions than killing some innocent people. How can you not understand this?

I never questioned that... odd how you assumed that.


what part of: without the possibility of there even being CC carriers in the crowd (due to the ordinance).. there was no possibility for any response..

has anything to do with that?


My point to you was that you seem to feel that had there been others in the crowd who were armed that they would have likely:

• been shot
• shot others accidentally

.. and that's a possibility..

but its also highly likely they while engaging the perp, they would have distracted him from his original purpose.. and likely additional time would have been bought for others to escape, which is why I stated..


without the possibility of there even being CC carriers in the crowd (due to the ordinance).. there was no possibility for any response..


How can you not understand this?

I understand your point in regards to other people in theater carrying guns perfectly fine. However, chances are, in a dark movie theater, with ONE guy wearing the mask and the rest being blinded by the tear gas, that anyone with a gun attempting to kill the psycho, would possibly miss the target,. Plus with the guy wearing a mask , he would notice who tried to shoot him and he would take that person down right away. Yes there is always a chance to distract the gun man, in a situation where people know what is goin on, who the gun man is etc. If more than one person in the theater had a gun, it would turn into a wild wild west cause when we are talkin about minutes and seconds, being in full panic, you just cant distinguish who is the good or bad guy amongst those who are shooting.

Bottom line is, instead of having a movie theater filled with people carrying guns, we should just make sure that everyone goes through a full background check and a full evaluation by a psychologist, before getting a gun. And also make sure those who are carrying the gun in a place like that have full knowledge when and how to use it.

[brandonx76]

From what I read, the guy was sticking out like a sore thumb, not like he was in a seat and then just jump up with guns blazing from within the crowd. He put everyone in the theater on short notice by tossing in a smoke and shooting the ceiling first. People who know how to use a gun and carry it would have jumped on the opportunity to take this guy out, since afterall that is the purpose of carrying a weapon and knowing exactly how to use it. Have him try that shit at a police ball and see what the outcome would be then.

he put them on notice?!? what the hell are you talking about, this was during an action movie in a loud movie theater...most people were trying to "escape" reality for a few fleeting hours... many thought it was part of the movie

[Behshad]

From what I read, the guy was sticking out like a sore thumb, not like he was in a seat and then just jump up with guns blazing from within the crowd. He put everyone in the theater on short notice by tossing in a smoke and shooting the ceiling first. People who know how to use a gun and carry it would have jumped on the opportunity to take this guy out, since afterall that is the purpose of carrying a weapon and knowing exactly how to use it. Have him try that shit at a police ball and see what the outcome would be then.

he put them on notice?!? what the hell are you talking about, this was during an action movie in a loud movie theater...most people were trying to "escape" reality for a few fleeting hours... many thought it was part of the movie

Exactly!

[Don]

Weren't the lights turned down as the movie had already started?
Smoke, darkness and people streaming toward you in a panic, doesn't sound like the best environment to instantly take down anybody in a discriminate matter.

[The Sushi Hunter]

From what I read, the guy was sticking out like a sore thumb, not like he was in a seat and then just jump up with guns blazing from within the crowd. He put everyone in the theater on short notice by tossing in a smoke and shooting the ceiling first. People who know how to use a gun and carry it would have jumped on the opportunity to take this guy out, since afterall that is the purpose of carrying a weapon and knowing exactly how to use it. Have him try that shit at a police ball and see what the outcome would be then.

he put them on notice?!? what the hell are you talking about, this was during an action movie in a loud movie theater...most people were trying to "escape" reality for a few fleeting hours... many thought it was part of the movie

Let me break it down for you since you obviously don't know the concept of "short notice". He did things that indicated he was about to go postal. He did not however hide in an overhead and snipe the crowd. He did not sit in the center of the auditorium as a joe blow going to see the flick and then just start shooting.

He did however 1) bust in through an emergency door exit entering the auditorium
2) show himself to the crowd dressed out in combat style gear
3) shot the ceiling
4) tossed in a smoke
5) waited for the smoke to go off before commence firing at the crowd.


That's short notice. "He who hesitates is lost".

The moment he sent the round through the overhead and dropped the smoke my weapon would ahve been drawn and he'd a been in the sight. That's why I have a .45, bullet proof vest or not, big heavy round like that is going to hurt regardless. Know anyone who's been hit with a .45 while wearing a vest? I do and some arguably rather get hit not wearing the vest.

[brandonx76]

"He who hesitates is lost".

What world is this where everyone is supposed to be on 'short notice'? Does everyone in it suffer from PTSD!?? Jesus Christ...

[The Sushi Hunter]

"He who hesitates is lost".

What world is this where everyone is supposed to be on 'short notice'? Does everyone in it suffer from PTSD!?? Jesus Christ...

Yeah I know everyone isn't as keen to this type of thing, but I'm addressing the fact that just because there could have been people in that theater carrying, doesn't mean that they know how to use their weapon properly. If there was anyone in there that did, they would have shot him, or die trying.

I seriously doubt anyone had a weapon on them in that theater though, because why? But I'm saying because it was mentioned earlier that some thought that someone would have had one.

[The Sushi Hunter]

One thing for sure, this sure took the spark out of the Joe Paterno statue thread today.

[JRNYMAN]

she actually posted something on Facebook. She NEVER does that! :shock:

I get what you mean. It's kinda like if my mom ever said "damn" or "shit" you knew someone had pushed her over the edge and life was not going to be pretty for someone at that moment! Or if she ever called my name and included my middle name...... Oh shit!!!! Everything I had ever done wrong started flashing through my mind and if then was going to be the moment when I ran away from home to avoid what my mom was about to do to me!

Tell your mom I liked her post and the way she worded it - very eloquent, yet direct and you can also tell her she echoes the sentiments and concerns of a very large number of people who are also sick of this crap happening.

[JRNYMAN]

One thing for sure, this sure took the spark out of the Joe Paterno statue thread today.

[StevePerryHair]

Weren't the lights turned down as the movie had already started?
Smoke, darkness and people streaming toward you in a panic, doesn't sound like the best environment to instantly take down anybody in a discriminate matter.

Exactly. I'm just laughing at the idea that people carrying guns just can't wait for a chance like this to act. That's what they sound like!! Even an off duty COP would try to secure his family, if he didn't have a point blank range to take him out. In the dark, him in black, chaos, his vision best, sounds of movie playing loud...no way. Nice how we have so many super heroes in this site who would just know what to do and exactly how theyd handle it!!

And correct me if I'm wrong, (not aimed at you Don) but this is a COMPANY Cinemark policy to not have guns. If they aren't checking everyone, anyone with a permit can legally carry it. There is a difference between COMPANY policy and LAW. How do you know no one had a gun???? And chose not to use it??? Colorados laws are not strict. And who would come foward now and say "hey I had a gun but chose to run. NO ONE. So we'll never know.

[TRAGChick]

Tell your mom I liked her post and the way she worded it - very eloquent, yet direct and you can also tell her she echoes the sentiments and concerns of a very large number of people who are also sick of this crap happening.

Thanks so much; I did - I posted what you said above on her Wall.

...Or if she ever called my name and included my middle name...... Oh shit!!!!

I KNOW; right???

Whenever I heard "NORA ELIZABETH!!! GET OVER HERE!!".....uh oh.....1000% Irish Temper coming my way.
So yeah - I know SHE MEANT BUSINESS when going to Facebook about this!

[slucero]

Weren't the lights turned down as the movie had already started?
Smoke, darkness and people streaming toward you in a panic, doesn't sound like the best environment to instantly take down anybody in a discriminate matter.

Exactly. I'm just laughing at the idea that people carrying guns just can't wait for a chance like this to act. That's what they sound like!! Even an off duty COP would try to secure his family, if he didn't have a point blank range to take him out. In the dark, him in black, chaos, his vision best, sounds of movie playing loud...no way. Nice how we have so many super heroes in this site who would just know what to do and exactly how theyd handle it!!

And correct me if I'm wrong, (not aimed at you Don) but this is a COMPANY Cinemark policy to not have guns. If they aren't checking everyone, anyone with a permit can legally carry it. There is a difference between COMPANY policy and LAW. How do you know no one had a gun???? And chose not to use it??? Colorados laws are not strict. And who would come foward now and say "hey I had a gun but chose to run. NO ONE. So we'll never know.

wrong. It's a municipal ordinance in Aurora that makes it illegal to carry into a premises that is posted "no guns." In other words, the city gave private signage the force of law. Cinemark theaters has had a no guns policy for some time, and has asked law-abiding citizens to leave for exercising their natural and Constitutional right to armed self-defense.

The ordinance:

Sec. 94-152. - Firearms on private property.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person, carrying a firearm, to enter or remain upon any private property of another or any building or property of a commercial establishment when such property, building, or establishment is posted with notification that the carrying of firearms is prohibited.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person, carrying a firearm, to remain upon any private property of another or any building or property of a commercial establishment after such person has been given verbal notice that the carrying of firearms is prohibited on such property, building, or establishment.

(c) Possession of a permit issued pursuant to C.R.S. 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to repeal, or possession of a permit or temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to pt. 2 of art. 18 of tit. 9 of the Colorado Revised Statutes shall be no defense to a violation of this section.

[slucero]

Guys going in a gas station with baseball bats and a handgun trying to get $20 from cash register =/= Psycho going in a movie theater at midnight with intentions to KILL.

This guy didnt go in for cash or any other intentions than killing some innocent people. How can you not understand this?

I never questioned that... odd how you assumed that.


what part of: without the possibility of there even being CC carriers in the crowd (due to the ordinance).. there was no possibility for any response..

has anything to do with that?


My point to you was that you seem to feel that had there been others in the crowd who were armed that they would have likely:

• been shot
• shot others accidentally

.. and that's a possibility..

but its also highly likely they while engaging the perp, they would have distracted him from his original purpose.. and likely additional time would have been bought for others to escape, which is why I stated..


without the possibility of there even being CC carriers in the crowd (due to the ordinance).. there was no possibility for any response..


How can you not understand this?

Bottom line is, instead of having a movie theater filled with people carrying guns, we should just make sure that everyone goes through a full background check and a full evaluation by a psychologist, before getting a gun. And also make sure those who are carrying the gun in a place like that have full knowledge when and how to use it.

BINGO


Nut control is a better form of gun control...

[TRAGChick]

Bottom line is, instead of having a movie theater filled with people carrying guns,

we should just make sure that everyone goes through a full background check and a full evaluation by a psychologist, before getting a gun.

Wasn't there some kind of "14 Day Wait Period" mandated in the 90s, during which background checks were performed?

[StevePerryHair]

Weren't the lights turned down as the movie had already started?
Smoke, darkness and people streaming toward you in a panic, doesn't sound like the best environment to instantly take down anybody in a discriminate matter.

Exactly. I'm just laughing at the idea that people carrying guns just can't wait for a chance like this to act. That's what they sound like!! Even an off duty COP would try to secure his family, if he didn't have a point blank range to take him out. In the dark, him in black, chaos, his vision best, sounds of movie playing loud...no way. Nice how we have so many super heroes in this site who would just know what to do and exactly how theyd handle it!!

And correct me if I'm wrong, (not aimed at you Don) but this is a COMPANY Cinemark policy to not have guns. If they aren't checking everyone, anyone with a permit can legally carry it. There is a difference between COMPANY policy and LAW. How do you know no one had a gun???? And chose not to use it??? Colorados laws are not strict. And who would come foward now and say "hey I had a gun but chose to run. NO ONE. So we'll never know.

wrong. It's a municipal ordinance in Aurora that makes it illegal to carry into a premises that is posted "no guns." In other words, the city gave private signage the force of law. Cinemark theaters has had a no guns policy for some time, and has asked law-abiding citizens to leave for exercising their natural and Constitutional right to armed self-defense.

The ordinance:

Sec. 94-152. - Firearms on private property.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person, carrying a firearm, to enter or remain upon any private property of another or any building or property of a commercial establishment when such property, building, or establishment is posted with notification that the carrying of firearms is prohibited.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person, carrying a firearm, to remain upon any private property of another or any building or property of a commercial establishment after such person has been given verbal notice that the carrying of firearms is prohibited on such property, building, or establishment.

(c) Possession of a permit issued pursuant to C.R.S. 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to repeal, or possession of a permit or temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to pt. 2 of art. 18 of tit. 9 of the Colorado Revised Statutes shall be no defense to a violation of this section.

Yeah, I just heard we have a law like this in FL too. I still say just because people aren't supposed to, they don't. Because if someone did have a gun, and by some miracle was able to kill him, no court in this country is going to convict that person. No way. Not if lives were saved. And those ordinances usually don't include cops, don't know about Colorado. I can tell you even an off duty cop is going to help people flee in that situation of confusion. Not pull his gun out and start shooting. Unless the guy was right next to him no way. And in this case the guy had a vest and guess where cops are TRAINED to shoot???? Prob would have failed.