Gun Debate

[The Sushi Hunter]

The chump is now unvailing a 500 Million dollar gun control deal.

[Memorex]

Um....

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/least-45-billion-new-spending-gun-control_696120.html

[Memorex]

"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."

-Mein Kampf, by Adolf Hitler

[slucero]

Since this EO list is as a result of the CT shootings.. let's see just how much this list, had it been passed prior to the shootings.. answers the following question:

Would this have have prevented Lanza from gaining access to his mothers weapons?


1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
Nope.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
Nope.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
Nope.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
Nope.

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
Nope.

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
Nope.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
Nope.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
Nope.

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
Nope.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
Nope.

11. Nominate an ATF director.
Nope.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
Nope.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
Nope.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
Maybe.

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
Nope.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
Nope.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
Nope.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
Nope.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
Nope.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
Nope.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
Nope.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
Nope.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.
Nope.


This whole thing is becoming much ado about nothing... other than stirring up anti-gun rhetoric, and spending $500 Million dollars that the country doesn't have...

[The Sushi Hunter]

One more step towards civil war if you ask me.

[slucero]

nah.. nothing will come of this...

Congress will do nothing.. lots of huffing and puffing... but in the end nothing..

[The Sushi Hunter]

I've read here and there that some law enforcement agencies in varous areas vow to not uphold these new gun control measures. The government losing control in this aspect is just one step closer to civil war I think.

[Rick]

I've read here and there that some law enforcement agencies in varous areas vow to not uphold these new gun control measures. The government losing control in this aspect is just one step closer to civil war I think.

A politician in Texas is trying to pass a law that would ban the federal government from interfering with Texas gun laws.

[Memorex]

Generally, Federal laws are not enforced by local authorities. That's up to the feds. Also, AZ lost the court case where they were trying to enforce federal law on their own (immigration).

I think what's happening in some places is some governors are threatening to arrest federal authorities that try to enforce "unconstitutional" laws in their state. That will last about 30 seconds.

[Rick]

Generally, Federal laws are not enforced by local authorities. That's up to the feds. Also, AZ lost the court case where they were trying to enforce federal law on their own (immigration).

I think what's happening in some places is some governors are threatening to arrest federal authorities that try to enforce "unconstitutional" laws in their state. That will last about 30 seconds.

I think you should just keep that avatar. It's good to see a sports fan supporting their team. Anyway, what were we talking about? I can't even type now.

[Memorex]

Generally, Federal laws are not enforced by local authorities. That's up to the feds. Also, AZ lost the court case where they were trying to enforce federal law on their own (immigration).

I think what's happening in some places is some governors are threatening to arrest federal authorities that try to enforce "unconstitutional" laws in their state. That will last about 30 seconds.

I think you should just keep that avatar. It's good to see a sports fan supporting their team. Anyway, what were we talking about? I can't even type now.

I know. I was amazed at how still she stood while I painted that.

[Memorex]

I think your avatar was in the middle of a show and saw my avatar walking by.

[Boomchild]

nah.. nothing will come of this...

Congress will do nothing.. lots of huffing and puffing... but in the end nothing..

I could agree with this however, one thing that it does do is desensitize the public to attempts to change the 2nd amendment. Then when another similar incident occurs it will make it easier for this administration to push for tougher laws that really do impact the 2nd amendment. Those in Congress that did not agree with this garbage have said very little. Which is no surprise. So, I am not putting my faith in Congress in protecting us from an administration that seems they couldn't give a rat's ass about the Constitution.

[slucero]

nah.. nothing will come of this...

Congress will do nothing.. lots of huffing and puffing... but in the end nothing..

I could agree with this however, one thing that it does do is desensitize the public to attempts to change the 2nd amendment. Then when another similar incident occurs it will make it easier for this administration to push for tougher laws that really do impact the 2nd amendment. Those in Congress that did not agree with this garbage have said very little. Which is no surprise. So, I am not putting my faith in Congress in protecting us from an administration that seems they couldn't give a rat's ass about the Constitution.

There have been plenty of mass shootings on his watch where he could do something bold.. he didn't, and the likely cause is the WH was working on Congressional support and I bet what they found is Dem Senate and House members who would not support it for fear of losing their seats.

If you watch his statement when he listed his agenda.. it looked forced and not well rehearsed.. meaning it was likely changed last minute.

[ebake02]

As a gun owner and supporter of the second amendment, I wish the NRA would shut the fuck up. They are dangerous organization that lives on the extreme fringe of the political spectrum and does not represent or speak for responsible, law abiding gun owners. They are not doing the second amendment any favors.

[steveo777]

As a gun owner and supporter of the second amendment, I wish the NRA would shut the fuck up. They are dangerous organization that lives on the extreme fringe of the political spectrum and does not represent or speak for responsible, law abiding gun owners. They are not doing the second amendment any favors.

The NRA isn't doing anything wrong. Were it not for the NRA the world would be a much less safe place to be. They understand our right to bear arms and teach gun safety...something we would not have without their leadership. The only thing Obama is gonna do is stir up a hornet's nest with his idiodic thinking that Gun Control is going to stop "real criminals and mentally ill" people from killing people. They will simply find a different device or steal a law abiding citizen's gun. The job will be done, gun or no gun. Calling the NRA "fringe" just solidifies my belief that you are an absolute extremist, lefty, liberal fuck-tard. America should open the borders and start kicking Liberal Fuck-Tards over into South America, as well as that other lower eschelon of society. The Mexicans.....well they can work and live here. Most of them are far better people than what the mannerisms in this country, as of late, seem to indicate.

[Rick]

I think your avatar was in the middle of a show and saw my avatar walking by.

Perfect.

[slucero]

[ebake02]

As a gun owner and supporter of the second amendment, I wish the NRA would shut the fuck up. They are dangerous organization that lives on the extreme fringe of the political spectrum and does not represent or speak for responsible, law abiding gun owners. They are not doing the second amendment any favors.

The NRA isn't doing anything wrong. Were it not for the NRA the world would be a much less safe place to be. They understand our right to bear arms and teach gun safety...something we would not have without their leadership. The only thing Obama is gonna do is stir up a hornet's nest with his idiodic thinking that Gun Control is going to stop "real criminals and mentally ill" people from killing people. They will simply find a different device or steal a law abiding citizen's gun. The job will be done, gun or no gun. Calling the NRA "fringe" just solidifies my belief that you are an absolute extremist, lefty, liberal fuck-tard. America should open the borders and start kicking Liberal Fuck-Tards over into South America, as well as that other lower eschelon of society. The Mexicans.....well they can work and live here. Most of them are far better people than what the mannerisms in this country, as of late, seem to indicate.

The NRA doesn't give a rat's ass about gun owners, all they care about are the gun manufacturers. One thing is for sure, they don't speak for me as a gun owner.

[Boomchild]

nah.. nothing will come of this...

Congress will do nothing.. lots of huffing and puffing... but in the end nothing..

I could agree with this however, one thing that it does do is desensitize the public to attempts to change the 2nd amendment. Then when another similar incident occurs it will make it easier for this administration to push for tougher laws that really do impact the 2nd amendment. Those in Congress that did not agree with this garbage have said very little. Which is no surprise. So, I am not putting my faith in Congress in protecting us from an administration that seems they couldn't give a rat's ass about the Constitution.

There have been plenty of mass shootings on his watch where he could do something bold.. he didn't, and the likely cause is the WH was working on Congressional support and I bet what they found is Dem Senate and House members who would not support it for fear of losing their seats.

If you watch his statement when he listed his agenda.. it looked forced and not well rehearsed.. meaning it was likely changed last minute.

Sure there has been. The key was to wait until the right moment which is exactly what Obama did. Since he knows there is no way he can ram or fast track his agenda concerning the 2nd amendment he will "spoon feed it" to the public. That way it will slowly desensitize them to stiffer actions. Anyone that is informed about Obama's history should know that as a Senator he signed a document in which he stated he agreed that no citizen should be allowed to own a hand gun. Now of course he is not going to come right out and say that as President but that is his position on it. Unfortunately, it seems that Obama is going to get what he wants since there isn't a strong enough opposition in our government and he knows how to play the game better then anyone that has come up against him yet. Don't look to Congress to be able to protect us against the damage this guy is going to do.

[conversationpc]

As a gun owner and supporter of the second amendment, I wish the NRA would shut the fuck up. They are dangerous organization that lives on the extreme fringe of the political spectrum and does not represent or speak for responsible, law abiding gun owners. They are not doing the second amendment any favors.

The NRA isn't doing anything wrong. Were it not for the NRA the world would be a much less safe place to be. They understand our right to bear arms and teach gun safety...something we would not have without their leadership. The only thing Obama is gonna do is stir up a hornet's nest with his idiodic thinking that Gun Control is going to stop "real criminals and mentally ill" people from killing people. They will simply find a different device or steal a law abiding citizen's gun. The job will be done, gun or no gun. Calling the NRA "fringe" just solidifies my belief that you are an absolute extremist, lefty, liberal fuck-tard. America should open the borders and start kicking Liberal Fuck-Tards over into South America, as well as that other lower eschelon of society. The Mexicans.....well they can work and live here. Most of them are far better people than what the mannerisms in this country, as of late, seem to indicate.

The NRA doesn't give a rat's ass about gun owners, all they care about are the gun manufacturers. One thing is for sure, they don't speak for me as a gun owner.

If the NRA didn't exist, we'd likely have no right to own a gun in this country any longer. That being said, I don't own a gun currently but support what they're doing.

[slucero]

nah.. nothing will come of this...

Congress will do nothing.. lots of huffing and puffing... but in the end nothing..

I could agree with this however, one thing that it does do is desensitize the public to attempts to change the 2nd amendment. Then when another similar incident occurs it will make it easier for this administration to push for tougher laws that really do impact the 2nd amendment. Those in Congress that did not agree with this garbage have said very little. Which is no surprise. So, I am not putting my faith in Congress in protecting us from an administration that seems they couldn't give a rat's ass about the Constitution.

There have been plenty of mass shootings on his watch where he could do something bold.. he didn't, and the likely cause is the WH was working on Congressional support and I bet what they found is Dem Senate and House members who would not support it for fear of losing their seats.

If you watch his statement when he listed his agenda.. it looked forced and not well rehearsed.. meaning it was likely changed last minute.

Sure there has been. The key was to wait until the right moment which is exactly what Obama did. Since he knows there is no way he can ram or fast track his agenda concerning the 2nd amendment he will "spoon feed it" to the public. That way it will slowly desensitize them to stiffer actions. Anyone that is informed about Obama's history should know that as a Senator he signed a document in which he stated he agreed that no citizen should be allowed to own a hand gun. Now of course he is not going to come right out and say that as President but that is his position on it. Unfortunately, it seems that Obama is going to get what he wants since there isn't a strong enough opposition in our government and he knows how to play the game better then anyone that has come up against him yet. Don't look to Congress to be able to protect us against the damage this guy is going to do.

I don't expect him to get any 2A legislation passed... except maybe some "token" legislation that applies to ammo purchases, or additional registration hoops to jump through..

The Dems aren't stupid and know there is 50% of the country that didn't vote for him... anything they try to do that is too blatantly egregious will result in in a backlash and lost Senate and House seats... which is likely why his 23 points were so watered down.

He's gonna try all kinds of shit this term.. but this term is not about getting legislation passed.. it's about his legacy.. and any thing he tries that he loses at will define it. More importantly, a lame duck president with a divided and deadlocked congress means nothing gets done. That's why they won't do anything until the midterms... if they gain nothing.. he's done.

The 2A is like Social Security reform.. its kryptonite... the 3rd rail to politicians.. they'll blather about it till the cows come home.. but in the end neither wants to be the ones to jump 1st.. because the party that does will be the ones to pay the price politically.

[Boomchild]

I don't expect him to get any 2A legislation passed... except maybe some "token" legislation that applies to ammo purchases, or additional registration hoops to jump through..

The Dems aren't stupid and know there is 50% of the country that didn't vote for him... anything they try to do that is too blatantly egregious will result in in a backlash and lost Senate and House seats... which is likely why his 23 points were so watered down.

He's gonna try all kinds of shit this term.. but this term is not about getting legislation passed.. it's about his legacy.. and any thing he tries that he loses at will define it. More importantly, a lame duck president with a divided and deadlocked congress means nothing gets done. That's why they won't do anything until the midterms... if they gain nothing.. he's done.

The 2A is like Social Security reform.. its kryptonite... the 3rd rail to politicians.. they'll blather about it till the cows come home.. but in the end neither wants to be the ones to jump 1st.. because the party that does will be the ones to pay the price politically.

In the past I would agree with you. In my opinion things are different now. The opposition to Obama is very weak and lets not forget they passed Obamacare which in my book and a lot of others is un-Constitutional. When looking back at the election there was a large group that didn't want Obama to get re-elected but sat the election out because Romney didn't hit all their bullet points or wasn't conservative enough for them. So by sitting it out they let Obama get re-elected and allow him to make things worse for this country's future then it already is. That was the most idiotic choice to make. They have already shown that they will do very little. Additionally, there is a large segment of citizens that don't even bother to vote or really pay much attention to what is going on in our government. Then there is the segment that will vote for the person or party that they think is going to keep giving them entitlements. They could care less about that person's or parties position on other things as long as they make good on the entitlements. I think it was Ben Franklin that said something to the effect that. once a person votes themselves money they destroy their Republic.

[slucero]

I don't expect him to get any 2A legislation passed... except maybe some "token" legislation that applies to ammo purchases, or additional registration hoops to jump through..

The Dems aren't stupid and know there is 50% of the country that didn't vote for him... anything they try to do that is too blatantly egregious will result in in a backlash and lost Senate and House seats... which is likely why his 23 points were so watered down.

He's gonna try all kinds of shit this term.. but this term is not about getting legislation passed.. it's about his legacy.. and any thing he tries that he loses at will define it. More importantly, a lame duck president with a divided and deadlocked congress means nothing gets done. That's why they won't do anything until the midterms... if they gain nothing.. he's done.

The 2A is like Social Security reform.. its kryptonite... the 3rd rail to politicians.. they'll blather about it till the cows come home.. but in the end neither wants to be the ones to jump 1st.. because the party that does will be the ones to pay the price politically.

In the past I would agree with you. In my opinion things are different now. The opposition to Obama is very weak and lets not forget they passed Obamacare which in my book and a lot of others is un-Constitutional. When looking back at the election there was a large group that didn't want Obama to get re-elected but sat the election out because Romney didn't hit all their bullet points or wasn't conservative enough for them. So by sitting it out they let Obama get re-elected and allow him to make things worse for this country's future then it already is. That was the most idiotic choice to make.

I disagree... Rooney's platform and political ideologiy is essentially the same as Obama's, and more importantly is a representation of the Republican ideology.. so voting for Romeny would essentially have been the no different than voting for Obama.. meaning: More of the same.

There wouldn't have been any change with Romney.. no repeal of Obamacare, The Patriot Act, no sudden fiscal responsibility.. because neither party have any will to do what needs to be done.

They have already shown that they will do very little. Additionally, there is a large segment of citizens that don't even bother to vote or really pay much attention to what is going on in our government. Then there is the segment that will vote for the person or party that they think is going to keep giving them entitlements. They could care less about that person's or parties position on other things as long as they make good on the entitlements. I think it was Ben Franklin that said something to the effect that. once a person votes themselves money they destroy their Republic.

Franklin's quote is true.. BUT..

The Republican party lost this election because they have lost their conservative morality.. NOT because of the conservative delegates and their supporters who did they're civic duty and voted their conscience... the very same folks who had their party leaders OVERTURN a floor vote 3 fucking times at the Republican National Convention when the whole damn room including NON-Paul supporters were voting "Yea"... to allow Ron Paul delegates votes be counted.. and instead the committee leaders changed the rules, essentially saying THEY would determine who the delegates were voting for.

Had those folks voted against their conscience and voted for Romney, he might have won.

But we ALL would have lost.


We can wait 4 years to get a real conservative in the White House, .... had Romney been elected we never would have.

[Boomchild]

I don't expect him to get any 2A legislation passed... except maybe some "token" legislation that applies to ammo purchases, or additional registration hoops to jump through..

The Dems aren't stupid and know there is 50% of the country that didn't vote for him... anything they try to do that is too blatantly egregious will result in in a backlash and lost Senate and House seats... which is likely why his 23 points were so watered down.

He's gonna try all kinds of shit this term.. but this term is not about getting legislation passed.. it's about his legacy.. and any thing he tries that he loses at will define it. More importantly, a lame duck president with a divided and deadlocked congress means nothing gets done. That's why they won't do anything until the midterms... if they gain nothing.. he's done.

The 2A is like Social Security reform.. its kryptonite... the 3rd rail to politicians.. they'll blather about it till the cows come home.. but in the end neither wants to be the ones to jump 1st.. because the party that does will be the ones to pay the price politically.

In the past I would agree with you. In my opinion things are different now. The opposition to Obama is very weak and lets not forget they passed Obamacare which in my book and a lot of others is un-Constitutional. When looking back at the election there was a large group that didn't want Obama to get re-elected but sat the election out because Romney didn't hit all their bullet points or wasn't conservative enough for them. So by sitting it out they let Obama get re-elected and allow him to make things worse for this country's future then it already is. That was the most idiotic choice to make.

I disagree... Rooney's platform and political ideologiy is essentially the same as Obama's, and more importantly is a representation of the Republican ideology.. so voting for Romeny would essentially have been the no different than voting for Obama.. meaning: More of the same.

There wouldn't have been any change with Romney.. no repeal of Obamacare, The Patriot Act, no sudden fiscal responsibility.. because neither party have any will to do what needs to be done.

They have already shown that they will do very little. Additionally, there is a large segment of citizens that don't even bother to vote or really pay much attention to what is going on in our government. Then there is the segment that will vote for the person or party that they think is going to keep giving them entitlements. They could care less about that person's or parties position on other things as long as they make good on the entitlements. I think it was Ben Franklin that said something to the effect that. once a person votes themselves money they destroy their Republic.

Franklin's quote is true.. BUT..

The Republican party lost this election because they have lost their conservative morality.. NOT because of the conservative delegates and their supporters who did they're civic duty and voted their conscience... the very same folks who had their party leaders OVERTURN a floor vote 3 fucking times at the Republican National Convention when the whole damn room including NON-Paul supporters were voting "Yea"... to allow Ron Paul delegates votes be counted.. and instead the committee leaders changed the rules, essentially saying THEY would determine who the delegates were voting for.

Had those folks voted against their conscience and voted for Romney, he might have won.

But we ALL would have lost.


We can wait 4 years to get a real conservative in the White House, .... had Romney been elected we never would have.

Romney in no way was the first choice of many, including me. However, I think that saying Romney is the same as Obama is a stretch. I do not think that he would be spending in the same way as Obama has and will. Nor do I think he views that the government is responsible for taking care of it's citizens the way Obama does as well as thinking that the government creates jobs. He certainly may not have been the best choice but he would have been far less destructive then Obama has and will be. In four years the Republican or conservative party will be just as fucked up as they are now. So putting faith in that the right person will run and be elected is weak at best. The thing is Obama can really screw things up in the next four years that it won't matter who gets elected President. The damage and downfall of our country will already be at a point that no one can put America back on course. I would like to be optimistic but sadly I feel that the ideology of a large amount of America has changed and don't seem to have a problem with moving further away from ideologies this country was founded upon. To make it worse there is a large segment of America that pay little to no attention to what is going on and don't seem to care either way at this point.

[slucero]

I don't expect him to get any 2A legislation passed... except maybe some "token" legislation that applies to ammo purchases, or additional registration hoops to jump through..

The Dems aren't stupid and know there is 50% of the country that didn't vote for him... anything they try to do that is too blatantly egregious will result in in a backlash and lost Senate and House seats... which is likely why his 23 points were so watered down.

He's gonna try all kinds of shit this term.. but this term is not about getting legislation passed.. it's about his legacy.. and any thing he tries that he loses at will define it. More importantly, a lame duck president with a divided and deadlocked congress means nothing gets done. That's why they won't do anything until the midterms... if they gain nothing.. he's done.

The 2A is like Social Security reform.. its kryptonite... the 3rd rail to politicians.. they'll blather about it till the cows come home.. but in the end neither wants to be the ones to jump 1st.. because the party that does will be the ones to pay the price politically.

In the past I would agree with you. In my opinion things are different now. The opposition to Obama is very weak and lets not forget they passed Obamacare which in my book and a lot of others is un-Constitutional. When looking back at the election there was a large group that didn't want Obama to get re-elected but sat the election out because Romney didn't hit all their bullet points or wasn't conservative enough for them. So by sitting it out they let Obama get re-elected and allow him to make things worse for this country's future then it already is. That was the most idiotic choice to make.

I disagree... Rooney's platform and political ideologiy is essentially the same as Obama's, and more importantly is a representation of the Republican ideology.. so voting for Romeny would essentially have been the no different than voting for Obama.. meaning: More of the same.

There wouldn't have been any change with Romney.. no repeal of Obamacare, The Patriot Act, no sudden fiscal responsibility.. because neither party have any will to do what needs to be done.

They have already shown that they will do very little. Additionally, there is a large segment of citizens that don't even bother to vote or really pay much attention to what is going on in our government. Then there is the segment that will vote for the person or party that they think is going to keep giving them entitlements. They could care less about that person's or parties position on other things as long as they make good on the entitlements. I think it was Ben Franklin that said something to the effect that. once a person votes themselves money they destroy their Republic.

Franklin's quote is true.. BUT..

The Republican party lost this election because they have lost their conservative morality.. NOT because of the conservative delegates and their supporters who did they're civic duty and voted their conscience... the very same folks who had their party leaders OVERTURN a floor vote 3 fucking times at the Republican National Convention when the whole damn room including NON-Paul supporters were voting "Yea"... to allow Ron Paul delegates votes be counted.. and instead the committee leaders changed the rules, essentially saying THEY would determine who the delegates were voting for.

Had those folks voted against their conscience and voted for Romney, he might have won.

But we ALL would have lost.


We can wait 4 years to get a real conservative in the White House, .... had Romney been elected we never would have.

Romney in no way was the first choice of many, including me. However, I think that saying Romney is the same as Obama is a stretch. I do not think that he would be spending in the same way as Obama has and will. Nor do I think he views that the government is responsible for taking care of it's citizens the way Obama does as well as thinking that the government creates jobs. He certainly may not have been the best choice but he would have been far less destructive then Obama has and will be. In four years the Republican or conservative party will be just as fucked up as they are now. So putting faith in that the right person will run and be elected is weak at best. The thing is Obama can really screw things up in the next four years that it won't matter who gets elected President. The damage and downfall of our country will already be at a point that no one can put America back on course. I would like to be optimistic but sadly I feel that the ideology of a large amount of America has changed and don't seem to have a problem with moving further away from ideologies this country was founded upon. To make it worse there is a large segment of America that pay little to no attention to what is going on and don't seem to care either way at this point.

I disagree... one need only look to the Massachusetts state budgets during Romney s tenure to see if he really was a fiscal conservative...

• Fiscal year 2002 (no Romney influence): $22.47 billion
• Fiscal year 2003 (partial-year Romney influence): $22.25 billion
• Fiscal year 2004 (full-year Romney influence): $22.49 billion
• Fiscal year 2005 (full-year Romney influence): $24.22 billion
• Fiscal year 2006 (full-year Romney influence): $25.44 billion
• Fiscal year 2007 (partial-year Romney influence): $27.92 billion

Year over year increases in the MA budget does not equal reducing the cost, or the size of their government..

And one need only look to RomneyCare (the model for Obamacare) to see that he was expanding entitlements via expanded healthcare coverage...


Even in if everything thing you say is true about either mans political ideology it still does not matter with regards to the direction of the country because of one simple fact.

Only Congress can legislate.

The POTUS only gets to approve anything AFTER Congress has authorized and approved it FIRST. The president only approves or vetos the bills.

So we can only blame Obama for spending, taking rights away, or making the country more liberal in the same way we can blame any president.. because all of their agendas still had to be AUTHORIZED by Congress. But you keep focusing on the President, keep falling for the political misdirection.... it's what both parties want.. and it takes your attention away form the real culprits.. Congress.

[Boomchild]

So we can only blame Obama for spending, taking rights away, or making the country more liberal in the same way we can blame any president.. because all of their agendas still had to be AUTHORIZED by Congress. But you keep focusing on the President, keep falling for the political misdirection.... it's what both parties want.. and it takes your attention away form the real culprits.. Congress.

I have said before that I don't trust any of them and that includes Congress. That doesn't change the notion that Romney would have less of a negative impact then Obama. Romney wasn't spouting off that we need to rebuild America or trying to change the ideology of the citizens. I also doubt that his response to the school shooting would be to try to add restrictions to the 2nd amendment or make every issue into a class warfare argument. The problem is that our whole system of government is fucked up because our elected officials have strayed away from the principles this country was founded upon. No matter how you slice it Obama should have never been given a second term. It's just that this country is now filled with people wanting a handout from the government as well as drones and people that just don't seem to care at all.

[steveo777]

So we can only blame Obama for spending, taking rights away, or making the country more liberal in the same way we can blame any president.. because all of their agendas still had to be AUTHORIZED by Congress. But you keep focusing on the President, keep falling for the political misdirection.... it's what both parties want.. and it takes your attention away form the real culprits.. Congress.

I have said before that I don't trust any of them and that includes Congress. That doesn't change the notion that Romney would have less of a negative impact then Obama. Romney wasn't spouting off that we need to rebuild America or trying to change the ideology of the citizens. I also doubt that his response to the school shooting would be to try to add restrictions to the 2nd amendment or make every issue into a class warfare argument. The problem is that our whole system of government is fucked up because our elected officials have strayed away from the principles this country was founded upon. No matter how you slice it Obama should have never been given a second term. It's just that this country is now filled with people wanting a handout from the government as well as drones and people that just don't seem to care at all.

People haven't come out of the ether yet. Buyers remorse takes more time to set in. It will be interesting to see what people are saying a year from now. Remember the sharp increase in the welfare and food stamp rolls? Remember that the number of illegals getting tax refunds by Earned Income Credit increased over 400% during Obama's first term. Does anyone think this is going to not continue to deepen drastically in his second term? Then what? Yup, that is the legacy that Obama will leave......a much larger mess for his successor to clean up. This could have been nipped in the bud, but now we have to allow another 4 years of this.

[slucero]

So we can only blame Obama for spending, taking rights away, or making the country more liberal in the same way we can blame any president.. because all of their agendas still had to be AUTHORIZED by Congress. But you keep focusing on the President, keep falling for the political misdirection.... it's what both parties want.. and it takes your attention away form the real culprits.. Congress.

I have said before that I don't trust any of them and that includes Congress. That doesn't change the notion that Romney would have less of a negative impact then Obama. Romney wasn't spouting off that we need to rebuild America or trying to change the ideology of the citizens. I also doubt that his response to the school shooting would be to try to add restrictions to the 2nd amendment or make every issue into a class warfare argument. The problem is that our whole system of government is fucked up because our elected officials have strayed away from the principles this country was founded upon. No matter how you slice it Obama should have never been given a second term. It's just that this country is now filled with people wanting a handout from the government as well as drones and people that just don't seem to care at all.

Obama won the election.. he was voted into office. I don't like it any more than you do.. but it is what it is. But it doesn't mean he simply gets to rule like a king. You seem to have this notion that Congress is just gonna lay done and give him what he wants.. when the reality is that once the Dems lost the House in 2012.. Obama ceased getting what he wanted.

Compare Romney to Reagan and Romney is a stone cold liberal. You just aren't seeing how both parties have swung leftward, and taken the country with it.

You also seem to have forgotten it was the Supreme Court that UPHELD Obamacare.. I don't like it any more than you do.. but it is what it is.

The fault for ALL of this is Congress.. they have the power to stop all of it.. but hey have been corrupted by special interests. It is Congress (both parties) who repealed Glass-Steagal, removing the chains that they put on the banks in 1933after they caused the Great Depression.

It is Congress that have allowed Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Obama to violate the War Powers Act.. and spend us into Trillions of debt with unnecessary wars.

The country has always had an apathetic voter base.. if you're just waking up to that fact then that's your own fault.

[The Sushi Hunter]

All The Chump does when talking in public is yell. I'd rather hear someone speak common sense at a normal volume than hearing this Chump yelling nonsense. Next black president will use a bullhorn.