MR

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the band...but...while I understand their change in direction to a more hard-rock sound with Norum back in the band, I have to ask, why is Michaeli still in Europe? Other than a few things in the distant background of a few songs on SFTD and Secret Society, it doesn't appear he even plays on some of the tracks. I understand them not wanting to sound "stuck" in the 80's with lots of synths and such, but there's still things that can be done on keyboards in a hard rock band without sounding dated...just listen to Derek Sherinian's work with Dream Theater.

So my question is...is he just along for the ride? Or is he just in the band to play the old songs in concert and collect his paychecks? As a musician, I don't feel the need to be the center of every song, but I do have to feel like I'm contributing something to the band musically, and it just seems odd to me he's still in the band despite barely playing at all on their new music. Thoughts?

WalrusOct9 wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the band...but...while I understand their change in direction to a more hard-rock sound with Norum back in the band, I have to ask, why is Michaeli still in Europe? Other than a few things in the distant background of a few songs on SFTD and Secret Society, it doesn't appear he even plays on some of the tracks.

So my question is...is he just along for the ride? Or is he just in the band to play the old songs in concert and collect his paychecks? As a musician, I don't feel the need to be the center of every song, but I do have to feel like I'm contributing something to the band musically, and it just seems odd to me he's still in the band despite barely playing at all on their new music. Thoughts?

You do what you need to do to pay bills, but I believe that Mic Michaeli should move on if they're not gonna use him much. The stuff Europe has limited him to can be played by any keyboardist, and I think he's had better opportunities to show off his skills (such as in the Brazon Abbott project.)

Even though I'm one of the few people who welcomes change, Europe is an exception to the rule for me. Europe was the first rock band I listened to. 'Final Countdown' was the song that got me to love rock in general. Europe without keyboards is like Iron Maiden without guitars; it just doesn't work.

I understand them not wanting to sound "stuck" in the 80's with lots of synths and such, but there's still things that can be done on keyboards in a hard rock band without sounding dated...just listen to Derek Sherinian's work with Dream Theater.

Or Arjen Lucassen on his projects at that matter. His first instrument is guitar, but he's a synth fanatic, and his experimentations with keys are hardly stuck in the 80's.

I'd say the Ayreon albums are some of the most "dated" sounding discs in my collection. I like the music, but it is very 80's sounding a lot of times, especially the first few albums.

I am sure part of it is because they play songs live that need the keyboards. Unlike SFTD, you can hear the keyboards a bit more on the new album, but they certainly are not where they were back in the day. A bit disappointing at times, but with JN in the band they are going to stay away for any type of "pop" sound just to make him happy.

There must be a Reason Well, there are a lot, but I'll say just one: Mic Michaeli has composed (together with Joey Tempest) 4 songs of the new album including some of the best ones like Devil Sings the Blues, Wish I Could Belive and Let the Children Play

Maybe becouse he's part of it!

SS has a lot more keys than the first few listens may indicate. Much of the time he's doubling the guitar riffs. Human After All is a great example of the keyboard doubling the main riff in a support role, making it sound huge, and then the string tones taking more prominence in the chorus.

WalrusOct9 wrote:I'd say the Ayreon albums are some of the most "dated" sounding discs in my collection. I like the music, but it is very 80's sounding a lot of times, especially the first few albums.

I think I read somewhere that Arjen Lucassen said that he used a dated sound on purpose. I haven't listened to all his work but I think Into The Electric Castle is a masterpiece.

You do realize that Derek Sherinian isn't with Dream Theater anymore, right?

Yeah, I just say "Derek Sherinian of Dream Theater" because far more people are familiar with that than Derek's solo albums or other things he's played on. I'd take him in a second over Rudess though...Rudess has the chops, but his playing is so busy to show off that it's just distracting and doesn't add anything to the music a lot of the time. Plus I thought Derek had a better idea of how to incorporate keyboards into a hard/rock metal style since he seems like more of a fan of classic rock/metal than Rudess is.

i believe, that Mic plays lot more, than it can be heard. i guess he gives basis for the songs. I don't think he should leave, because he is playing important role in the band, even if not that 'accentuated', as in the 80's. He is part of the brotherhood

Or should he play guitars as well, just like Winger's Paul Taylor?

[quote="axeman"]i believe, that Mic plays lot more, than it can be heard. i guess he gives basis for the songs. I don't think he should leave, because he is playing important role in the band, even if not that 'accentuated', as in the 80's. He is part of the brotherhood

Agreed

I usually sit back quietly in here but I just have to make a comment in this thread! I think you're being a wee bit unfair to Mic. Yes true, his sounds may not be predominant but if you've attended any of their gigs you'll know exactly how much he contributes to the music

Sometimes what a musician contributes to a band can seem very subtle, but becomes glaringly obvious when it's NOT there. Maybe that's the case with Mic. Maybe the band values loyalty.

toni4672 wrote:Sometimes what a musician contributes to a band can seem very subtle, but becomes glaringly obvious when it's NOT there. Maybe that's the case with Mic. Maybe the band values loyalty.

This is right on. Any of Europe's stuff, early and new, without the keyboard is completely different. Mic adds an aura of sound that is what keeps it melodic.