MR

Would you toe the company line just to keep your job, even though that meant sacrificing your belief system....or would you stand up for yourself, voice your opinion - knowing it might mean your job?

I guess what I'm asking is even in this age of high unemployment, and economic uncertainty - would you do anything to keep your job? Even if it meant being untrue to yourself, and kowtowing to the 'Man'?

I'd keep pimping myself out until I had another deal in the works. I'm just saying.

Good question
I have been at my job for 18years.When you have been at the job so long you feel like they want to get rid of you.So far so good.But i will tell you this.If they wanted me out i would go out with a fight .I can't just suck it up and move on.

Well, if it were a job that involved something that went that strongly against my beliefs, I probably wouldn't get involved to start with, BUT if something came up, would I stay quiet, or open trap knowing it might mean losing my job? Yeah, ummmm, no... I'm not about do anything that would compromise my job. It took me long enough not only to find a new job, but one I'm happy at. If it were an ongoing problem, I'd probably look for somewhere new and stay quiet in the interim. Beliefs do not pay the bills, unless you're a rabbi or something. So I guess my belief system is not that strong. But what kind of beliefs are we talking about here, I wonder.

I believe very strongly in Oreos!


On a more serious note, one should ALWAYS be true to themselves is what I've always believed in!

Interesting question. My last full time job I loved in so many ways - the work, the industry, the challenges, the amount of freedom I was given. I had one problem, my boss. He always seemed like a really nice guy, but somehow I always felt uneasy about him. Took me about 6 months to work out that he was a bully and a liar. He was one of those people who would tell you whatever you needed to hear right now to get you to do something, and would cheerfully manipulate the hell out of you with a smile on his face.
I started to see the cracks in the facade when he not only failed to back me up in a staffing issue (one of my staff outright ignoring direct, clear and repeated instructions) but then turned around and told me I had no right to say anything to that staff member. I stood there in shock for about a minute, then pointed out that every time I had gone to him for advice and instruction on how to deal with this person and what would be the 'correct' way to handle it, he had waved me away with a 'you deal with it.' I walked away feeling like I'd been set up to be kicked.
It really became apparent to me what was going on when I realised how much he lied to the staff about what went on in board meetings. I worked for a semi-autonomous government board, and we had a governing committee of industry members who would meet once a month and made all the relevent decisions about us. One of our staff members needed them to make a decision about a major issue that affected her and the industry that she felt she had a solution to. The boss had promised her he would bring it up and fight for her idea to be approved. At the meeting, when that agenda item came up, one of the 'strong personalities' on the board waved it away with a 'don't think this is relevent' comment. Instead of going into it in more detail and explaining why it would save the board money and this woman work hours, my boss just said 'ok' and moved on. Did nothing at all. What really bothered me was that he outright lied to her about it afterwards, telling her that he had fought for her cause but the board had shot it down. At that point I thought 'if you will lie to her about the Board's decisions, what won't you lie about? And what lies are you telling me?'
I quit about 3 months later, and decided at that point I'd rather go back to Uni full time than into another full time job. I just couldn't stomach the lies any more.
Don't know if that counts.

StocktontoMalone wrote:Would you toe the company line just to keep your job, even though that meant sacrificing your belief system....or would you stand up for yourself, voice your opinion - knowing it might mean your job? ?

I have a big mouth, yes I do!!!

StocktontoMalone wrote:I guess what I'm asking is even in this age of high unemployment, and economic uncertainty - would you do anything to keep your job? Even if it meant being untrue to yourself, and kowtowing to the 'Man'?

NO, NEVER..not for anyone or anything!!

I think it all depends on your personal circumstances.

If your employer is doing something unlawful or immoral or if you have the ability to find a better job, you should definitely do it! However, if you really need the job, you'd better shut your mouth and do your job until you can find something else. I can't see quitting a job for not agreeing with the boss if I have my rent to pay or don't have a bunch of $$ saved up. You gotta have priorities.....being right doesn't pay the bills.

WalkInMyShoes wrote:I think it all depends on your personal circumstances.

If your employer is doing something unlawful or immoral or if you have the ability to find a better job, you should definitely do it! However, if you really need the job, you'd better shut your mouth and do your job until you can find something else. I can't see quitting a job for not agreeing with the boss if I have my rent to pay or don't have a bunch of $$ saved up. You gotta have priorities.....being right doesn't pay the bills.

That's your employer....not you!!!

WalkInMyShoes wrote:You gotta have priorities.....being right doesn't pay the bills.

My priorities in the work place are me and my paycheck. I can be bought. (shut up Behshad!) I don't care if the boss is dealing coke out of her office, just keep that crap away from me and sign my check, kthxbai.

If I was sexually harassed you bet your sweet ass I'd quit. If it was something else illegal, I probably would quit depending on how bad I thought it was.

Immoral, well, I have a part time job and my boss is really opinionated and picks fights with me and others about politics, cultures, news, celebrities... it creates a really stressful environment for me but I wouldn't quit because of it.

Sarah wrote:If I was sexually harassed you bet your sweet ass I'd quit. If it was something else illegal, I probably would quit depending on how bad I thought it was.

Immoral, well, I have a part time job and my boss is really opinionated and picks fights with me and others about politics, cultures, news, celebrities... it creates a really stressful environment for me but I wouldn't quit because of it.

Your place of work sounds very similiar to MR ! And you havent quit here either Is Andrew your boss, or is it FactFinder ?

Sarah wrote:If I was sexually harassed you bet your sweet ass I'd quit. If it was something else illegal, I probably would quit depending on how bad I thought it was.

I should have noted this... of course something like sexual harassment, threats, or illegal activity and I would not stay. But other than that, no. Not if it means bills ain't gettin' paid. Lol

StocktontoMalone wrote:Would you toe the company line just to keep your job, even though that meant sacrificing your belief system....or would you stand up for yourself, voice your opinion - knowing it might mean your job?

I guess what I'm asking is even in this age of high unemployment, and economic uncertainty - would you do anything to keep your job? Even if it meant being untrue to yourself, and kowtowing to the 'Man'?

Bye Bye job..........no job is worth denying yourself.

artist4perry wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:Would you toe the company line just to keep your job, even though that meant sacrificing your belief system....or would you stand up for yourself, voice your opinion - knowing it might mean your job?

I guess what I'm asking is even in this age of high unemployment, and economic uncertainty - would you do anything to keep your job? Even if it meant being untrue to yourself, and kowtowing to the 'Man'?

Bye Bye job..........no job is worth denying yourself.

Thats something Stevew2 would disagree with you on, {if you know what I mean }

Behshad wrote:

artist4perry wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:Would you toe the company line just to keep your job, even though that meant sacrificing your belief system....or would you stand up for yourself, voice your opinion - knowing it might mean your job?

I guess what I'm asking is even in this age of high unemployment, and economic uncertainty - would you do anything to keep your job? Even if it meant being untrue to yourself, and kowtowing to the 'Man'?

Bye Bye job..........no job is worth denying yourself.

Thats something Stevew2 would disagree with you on, {if you know what I mean }

LOL! I am a girl so that would not appeal to me.

I'd have to quit. I know it's hard time to find work now but I have enough confidence in myself that I would find some thing. Maybe I would have to accept a lower position and work my way back up but I could live with that.

Once you start living a lie at work (turning a blind eye to things you find morally abhorrent), you're not really living, are you?

Whoa, if something illegal were going on at your workplace, be careful. Just because you have nothing to do with it, doesn't mean someone wouldn't set you up if things were about to hit the fan. Knowing about it and doing nothing is only one step away from being involved and it's a small step. I wouldn't tolerate it at all or want my name and reputation associated with such a business.

There are some things that are considered acceptable in some industries - overbilling clients, excessive transactions to generate fees, etc. that does not sit well with me either. I guess part of the solution is to find a job or career path that does not conflict with your values.

This is one of the main reasons I started my own business...

AlteredDNA wrote:This is one of the main reasons I started my own business...

The type of garbage Ari had to deal with is why I would like to start my own business too. Whoever said crap runs downhill didn't work in middle management! When you're in the middle it hits you from both sides!

Based on past messages I've read on this board, I'm guessing Rhi would tell herself off and walk out!!!

As for me, I'm with most of the others on this one: If it had to do with life compromising or illegal activities that could eventually fall on me--- I'd quit, but a boss whose opinion differs with mine (even strongly, vocally, openly) about politics & whatnot -- I'd stay, but I'd be looking for another opportunity elsewhere if he was getting on my nerves.

The question is too generic. This economic climate is rough. Where I live, and in Atlanta, where I used to live, have been people, middle management, out of work for two years and losing their homes and looking for jobs desperately. They have children to take care of. It depends on what belief system is compromised and what your financial situation is and are you a single parent, blah, blah, blah. In this day and time, I would say, depending on what it was, I would err on the side of stability financially and look for another job and then leave. I'm in a specific field and self-employed, so can't really relate to working for a big corporation. We mostly leave for lack of work and go to a different firm or city.

I am one of the most principled, outspoken people I can think of in real life (and here too, usually).

That said, we live in a country where you have to pick and choose every word you say in a public and/or professional context with the utmost care, walking on eggshells so as not to offend whatever disenfranchised classification of people a person within earshot might fall into. So, while I would never sell myself out and go along with something unethical, dishonest, or something I considered so flagrantly morally abhorrent, there are a lot of "beliefs" that instinct would make me want to speak up about. But, prudence about the sickeningly PC world we live in will make me keep it to myself or to trusted close friends. Otherwise, you might find yourself fired.

It really is a joke.

Behshad wrote:

Sarah wrote:Immoral, well, I have a part time job and my boss is really opinionated and picks fights with me and others about politics, cultures, news, celebrities... it creates a really stressful environment for me but I wouldn't quit because of it.

Your place of work sounds very similiar to MR ! And you havent quit here either Is Andrew your boss, or is it FactFinder ?

Are you saying I should leave MR? Rude.

I am looking for another job, mostly cause I can't live on a part time salary. 10 months of unemployment/partial employment, woo.

Sarah wrote:

Behshad wrote:

Sarah wrote:Immoral, well, I have a part time job and my boss is really opinionated and picks fights with me and others about politics, cultures, news, celebrities... it creates a really stressful environment for me but I wouldn't quit because of it.

Your place of work sounds very similiar to MR ! And you havent quit here either Is Andrew your boss, or is it FactFinder ?

Are you saying I should leave MR? Rude.

I am looking for another job, mostly cause I can't live on a part time salary. 10 months of unemployment/partial employment, woo.

Oh nonononono!!!! No one wants you to leave MR ..... I was just stating the fact that you have managed to "survive" and not quit your job just like you havent quit here at MR , despite the stressful enviroment created for you at both places !:)

Behshad wrote:

Sarah wrote:

Behshad wrote:

Sarah wrote:Immoral, well, I have a part time job and my boss is really opinionated and picks fights with me and others about politics, cultures, news, celebrities... it creates a really stressful environment for me but I wouldn't quit because of it.

Your place of work sounds very similiar to MR ! And you havent quit here either Is Andrew your boss, or is it FactFinder ?

Are you saying I should leave MR? Rude.

I am looking for another job, mostly cause I can't live on a part time salary. 10 months of unemployment/partial employment, woo.

Oh nonononono!!!! No one wants you to leave MR ..... I was just stating the fact that you have managed to "survive" and not quit your job just like you havent quit here at MR , despite the stressful enviroment created for you at both places !:)

Oh believe me this board stresses me out, lol Unfortunately I'm a terrible debater so I can pretty much only sit here and facepalm when I read political threads.

Ehwmatt wrote:I am one of the most principled, outspoken people I can think of in real life (and here too, usually).

That said, we live in a country where you have to pick and choose every word you say in a public and/or professional context with the utmost care, walking on eggshells so as not to offend whatever disenfranchised classification of people a person within earshot might fall into. So, while I would never sell myself out and go along with something unethical, dishonest, or something I considered so flagrantly morally abhorrent, there are a lot of "beliefs" that instinct would make me want to speak up about. But, prudence about the sickeningly PC world we live in will make me keep it to myself or to trusted close friends. Otherwise, you might find yourself fired.

It really is a joke.

Well said!

If your integrity is for sale to the hightest bidder, what's next? Why sell yourself out? There are successful companies out there that hold a value system, and pride themselves in employing honest employees. They're out there; just keep searching.

I won't sell myself out; never have and never will. Others can have a differing opinion; no problem, but I will never be bought and paid for by anybody. One solution is to start your own business. Find something you absolutely love, learn everything you can about it, and go for it! Having a business mind helps greatly, because you should never depend on another person, even if it's a trusted one. So take some college classes in business; they'll always come in handy.

Any Avon ladies out there?

here about five years ago right around the time my son was born i had a new employee to train.i had been at this particular job about five years and really liked it.fellow seemed nice enough when i was training him and everything was well.or so i thought.this man was ex military and i had already told me boss to send me someone older and not so young because of past issues such as not paying attention.anyway be careful what you wish for.after about a week this man i trained started telling me how i was going to empty the trash,sweep the floor,mop this and dust that.he was a very overboard neat freak.i called my boss and my boss told me to handle it in house and don't call back.he even called me the day my son was born and told me to come meet him and clean up.dumbass sonofabitch.mind you we already had a janitor and it wasn't even our job to clean it in the first place.well this guy i had just trained went around our workplace telling everyone he was my boss.this shit went on for almost a damn year before he finally took his control freak shit too far and ordered the wrong person around.took them a whole year and then they ask me why i didn't call sooner and tell them,lol.he went around going overboard kissing people ass trying to impress them and whisper shit about me until the very end when his house of cards crumbled.

mikemarrs wrote:here about five years ago right around the time my son was born i had a new employee to train.i had been at this particular job about five years and really liked it.fellow seemed nice enough when i was training him and everything was well.or so i thought.this man was ex military and i had already told me boss to send me someone older and not so young because of past issues such as not paying attention.anyway be careful what you wish for.after about a week this man i trained started telling me how i was going to empty the trash,sweep the floor,mop this and dust that.he was a very overboard neat freak.i called my boss and my boss told me to handle it in house and don't call back.he even called me the day my son was born and told me to come meet him and clean up.dumbass sonofabitch.mind you we already had a janitor and it wasn't even our job to clean it in the first place.well this guy i had just trained went around our workplace telling everyone he was my boss.this shit went on for almost a damn year before he finally took his control freak shit too far and ordered the wrong person around.took them a whole year and then they ask me why i didn't call sooner and tell them,lol.he went around going overboard kissing people ass trying to impress them and whisper shit about me until the very end when his house of cards crumbled.

What kind of job was this? I assume if you trained him, you were in a higher position, so why couldn't you tell him not to speak to you that way, or just not do what he demanded? Why not visit HR and let them know the situation and that your boss refused to handle it?

Sarah wrote:

mikemarrs wrote:here about five years ago right around the time my son was born i had a new employee to train.i had been at this particular job about five years and really liked it.fellow seemed nice enough when i was training him and everything was well.or so i thought.this man was ex military and i had already told me boss to send me someone older and not so young because of past issues such as not paying attention.anyway be careful what you wish for.after about a week this man i trained started telling me how i was going to empty the trash,sweep the floor,mop this and dust that.he was a very overboard neat freak.i called my boss and my boss told me to handle it in house and don't call back.he even called me the day my son was born and told me to come meet him and clean up.dumbass sonofabitch.mind you we already had a janitor and it wasn't even our job to clean it in the first place.well this guy i had just trained went around our workplace telling everyone he was my boss.this shit went on for almost a damn year before he finally took his control freak shit too far and ordered the wrong person around.took them a whole year and then they ask me why i didn't call sooner and tell them,lol.he went around going overboard kissing people ass trying to impress them and whisper shit about me until the very end when his house of cards crumbled.

What kind of job was this? I assume if you trained him, you were in a higher position, so why couldn't you tell him not to speak to you that way, or just not do what he demanded? Why not visit HR and let them know the situation and that your boss refused to handle it?

security.pretty much one boss at this company.we get sent to different locations but some people stay at one place for years.i really liked this location and any type of commotion or complaints would make waves and i didn't want to take anymore chances after the boss told me to quit being silly and work our issues out among ourselves.we could've worked this issue out BUT this guy knew how much i liked where i was so he sort of held it over my head and made it hard on me because he knew if i complained again we both might've had to move and he didn't care.i was happy the day he was told to leave.i lasted three more years until this company closed its doors.