MR

If your bands songs were being used for NATIONAL SECURITY... WHY would you not be a PROUD AMERICAN and say hell ya use them, I am honored to be a part of the sacrafice for the GOOD of the country... JUST SAYING... if the practice of using your songs saved millions of lives.... would it not be worth it...
just saying... I dont get the SELFISHNESS of musicains here in their thinking... just saying...



Rick

Huh? Maybe I missed something, but I have NO freaking clue who or what you're talking about!??? Please elaborate...

Songs being used for national security? Color me confused...

I can see how Baby I'm A Leavin' You could be used when torturing prisoners, but beyond that...I'm lost.

fightingilliniJRNY wrote:Songs being used for national security? Color me confused...

I can see how Baby I'm A Leavin' You could be used when torturing prisoners, but beyond that...I'm lost.

lol, if you gave the enemy a choice between getting nuked and having Generations played outloud over their base camp they would definitely choose the A-bomb

for those confused about this news...

here is a link to the story...... and I know some here will agree with the musicans... and hey thats your right...

R http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33423672/ns ... terrorism/

fightingilliniJRNY wrote:Songs being used for national security? Color me confused...

I can see how Baby I'm A Leavin' You could be used when torturing prisoners, but beyond that...I'm lost.

I love this, no torture there!!

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:lol, if you gave the enemy a choice between getting nuked and having Generations played outloud over their base camp they would definitely choose the A-bomb

Play Faithfully, the one w/the writer singing!!!


You're just sayin' alot Rick, but what exactly is it you're sayin'?!?!?

lights1961 wrote:If your bands songs were being used for NATIONAL SECURITY... WHY would you not be a PROUD AMERICAN and say hell ya use them, I am honored to be a part of the sacrafice for the GOOD of the country... JUST SAYING... if the practice of using your songs saved millions of lives.... would it not be worth it...
just saying... I dont get the SELFISHNESS of musicains here in their thinking... just saying...



Rick

Hmm, should an American be proud that their nation has endorsed the use of torture? I thought the right not to be terrorised and tortured by government agencies was one of those much lauded American liberties so highly valued in a democracy. These musician object to their music being used to torture people, and so I should hope they would. It has nothing to do with their stance on Iraq, the insurgents or their political alliance, and everything to do with an objection to America using torture, as if it were one of the oppressive regimes it says it opposes (wasn't Hussein's use of torture one of the reasons given for the USA going into Iraq in the first place?)

For what it's worth, torture has never produced good or reliable information, because people will eventually say anything to make it stop, guilty or not.

Arianddu wrote:Hmm, should an American be proud that their nation has endorsed the use of torture? I thought the right not to be terrorised and tortured by government agencies was one of those much lauded American liberties so highly valued in a democracy. These musician object to their music being used to torture people, and so I should hope they would. It has nothing to do with their stance on Iraq, the insurgents or their political alliance, and everything to do with an objection to America using torture, as if it were one of the oppressive regimes it says it opposes (wasn't Hussein's use of torture one of the reasons given for the USA going into Iraq in the first place?)

For what it's worth, torture has never produced good or reliable information, because people will eventually say anything to make it stop, guilty or not.

How do you know? Are you a military/intelligence expert?
Sorry...I'm not condoning torture here...but please don't spray off things as 'facts' when you know they clearly are not.

Good points, Arianddu.

Arianddu wrote:
Hmm, should an American be proud that their nation has endorsed the use of torture? I thought the right not to be terrorised and tortured by government agencies was one of those much lauded American liberties so highly valued in a democracy. These musician object to their music being used to torture people, and so I should hope they would. It has nothing to do with their stance on Iraq, the insurgents or their political alliance, and everything to do with an objection to America using torture, as if it were one of the oppressive regimes it says it opposes (wasn't Hussein's use of torture one of the reasons given for the USA going into Iraq in the first place?)

For what it's worth, torture has never produced good or reliable information, because people will eventually say anything to make it stop, guilty or not.

our nation was altered with the policies of the previous administration, but will hopefully be restored by our present one. dick cheney continues to pimp the idea of torture as a good thing. scary man.

Lula wrote:
our nation was altered with the policies of the previous administration, but will hopefully be restored by our present one. dick cheney continues to pimp the idea of torture as a good thing. scary man.

Restored? keep dreaming!...and if you want scary, look no further than the blatant attempt to take a huge chunk out of the first ammendment this week!

Like I said in another post. Bush clearly pissed in the punch bowl while he was in office...but YoMama has taken the bowl, put it on the party floor, dropped trou, shat a nasty watery shit into it, stirred it up...and signed legislation forcing everyone to take a big long sip!

Seriously. Pointing to the egregious errors of the previous administration is the only thing that the current one is doing with any clarity or transparency (a solemn campaign promise of the current liar in chief)....

strangegrey wrote:

Lula wrote:
our nation was altered with the policies of the previous administration, but will hopefully be restored by our present one. dick cheney continues to pimp the idea of torture as a good thing. scary man.

Restored? keep dreaming!...and if you want scary, look no further than the blatant attempt to take a huge chunk out of the first ammendment this week!

Like I said in another post. Bush clearly pissed in the punch bowl while he was in office...but YoMama has taken the bowl, put it on the party floor, dropped trou, shat a nasty watery shit into it, stirred it up...and signed legislation forcing everyone to take a big long sip!

Seriously. Pointing to the egregious errors of the previous administration is the only thing that the current one is doing with any clarity or transparency (a solemn campaign promise of the current liar in chief)....

Did you see this Frank? Coming in December....scary times indeed!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlTagSZPm7o

strangegrey wrote:Are you a military/intelligence expert?

Former father-in-law was precisely that. Know many people who work in that area and more than a few psychologists working for the Defence Department. Industry opinion is - information gained through torture is highly unreliable because people being tortured will tell you what they think you want to hear.

strangegrey wrote:Sorry...I'm not condoning torture here...but please don't spray off things as 'facts' when you know they clearly are not.

Please don't assume someone you know little about doesn't know what they are talking about. You might be surprised.

Arianddu wrote:

strangegrey wrote:Are you a military/intelligence expert?

Former father-in-law was precisely that. Know many people who work in that area and more than a few psychologists working for the Defence Department. Industry opinion is - information gained through torture is highly unreliable because people being tortured will tell you what they think you want to hear.

strangegrey wrote:Sorry...I'm not condoning torture here...but please don't spray off things as 'facts' when you know they clearly are not.

Please don't assume someone you know little about doesn't know what they are talking about. You might be surprised.

And exactly what are his qualifications for you citing that you can make such a blatant and eronious statement?
Good lord...former father in law.....that's almost as bad as "I knew a guy once..."

Seriously...I don't condone torture...but there isn't a successful classified intelligence gathering mission in this country (i.e. NOT yours)...especially one over the past 8 years...that is going to reveal it's methods of acquiring information that lead to successful mission ops or thwarting of terrorism....

That sorta thing remains quite classified for several years.


You can't make a blanket statement about something that, by a matter of routine, is kept classified.



Stick to what you can cite as fact....because you clearly are not citing anything other than a "I know a guy that knows a guy" as your support. Hardly conclusive...and highly laughable.

strangegrey wrote:

Lula wrote:
our nation was altered with the policies of the previous administration, but will hopefully be restored by our present one. dick cheney continues to pimp the idea of torture as a good thing. scary man.

Restored? keep dreaming!...and if you want scary, look no further than the blatant attempt to take a huge chunk out of the first ammendment this week!

Like I said in another post. Bush clearly pissed in the punch bowl while he was in office...but YoMama has taken the bowl, put it on the party floor, dropped trou, shat a nasty watery shit into it, stirred it up...and signed legislation forcing everyone to take a big long sip!

Seriously. Pointing to the egregious errors of the previous administration is the only thing that the current one is doing with any clarity or transparency (a solemn campaign promise of the current liar in chief)....

Liar in chief? I prefer buffoon in chief

strangegrey wrote:And exactly what are his qualifications for you citing that you can make such a blatant and eronious statement?

He is A Military Intelligence Expert. Works for Australian Foreign Affairs as Embassy Security (and if you can't work out what the hell that actually means, all I'll tell you is it isn't a security guard.) And still very much my family. And no, you don't get more than that. Some things don't get talked about.

What I said is based on those people I know who are fucking experts Frank. You want to spout your opposing opinion, go for it. I don't agree, and my opinion is based on what I hear straight from the horses mouth, not on what someone said down the pub or what I read in the paper.

Arianddu wrote:

strangegrey wrote:And exactly what are his qualifications for you citing that you can make such a blatant and eronious statement?

He is A Military Intelligence Expert. Works for Australian Foreign Affairs as Embassy Security (and if you can't work out what the hell that actually means, all I'll tell you is it isn't a security guard.) And still very much my family. And no, you don't get more than that. Some things don't get talked about.

What I said is based on those people I know who are fucking experts Frank. You want to spout your opposing opinion, go for it. I don't agree, and my opinion is based on what I hear straight from the horses mouth, not on what someone said down the pub or what I read in the paper.

Whatever. If he is what you say he is...which we can save the verification for another psycho....then even he can't or shouldn't be telling you whether torture results from viable information without breaking a whole slew of confidences (assuming the ausie military is run with proper controls)....but maybe the Ausie military is run loosie goosie...who knows.

I can tell you this....A so-called military intelligence expert in another country doesn't have much authority to comment on military operations outside of his country...

...so your opinion, which is all it is, and that of your so-called father-in-law....isn't very valid "here" in the US.


I have military friends in gov here in the actual country we're talking about. Highly placed. I can gaurantee you that they will never tell me, one way or another, whether any of the 'torture' policies that the US adopted over the past few years has resulted in successful military ops or thwarting of terrorism...and their official positions are clear. Anyone that claims to know, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. Is lying through their teeth. Such a position is consistent with everyone in OUR government (not yours) with the exception of those that stand to politically benefit from saying otherwise.


However, let me add something for you to choke on. My military friends in gov will CLEARLY state that serious terrorism HAS been thwarted here in the states over the past 8 years. You can do your best to try to skirt around the dots that can be connected....

RedWingFan wrote:

strangegrey wrote:

Lula wrote:
our nation was altered with the policies of the previous administration, but will hopefully be restored by our present one. dick cheney continues to pimp the idea of torture as a good thing. scary man.

Restored? keep dreaming!...and if you want scary, look no further than the blatant attempt to take a huge chunk out of the first ammendment this week!

Like I said in another post. Bush clearly pissed in the punch bowl while he was in office...but YoMama has taken the bowl, put it on the party floor, dropped trou, shat a nasty watery shit into it, stirred it up...and signed legislation forcing everyone to take a big long sip!

Seriously. Pointing to the egregious errors of the previous administration is the only thing that the current one is doing with any clarity or transparency (a solemn campaign promise of the current liar in chief)....

Did you see this Frank? Coming in December....scary times indeed!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlTagSZPm7o

Scary indeed .... WOW

lights1961 wrote:If your bands songs were being used for NATIONAL SECURITY... WHY would you not be a PROUD AMERICAN and say hell ya use them, I am honored to be a part of the sacrafice for the GOOD of the country... JUST SAYING... if the practice of using your songs saved millions of lives.... would it not be worth it...
just saying... I dont get the SELFISHNESS of musicains here in their thinking... just saying...

LOL so people who don't support torture hate America? That's scary.

[quote="strangegrey"]

Like I said in another post. Bush clearly pissed in the punch bowl while he was in office...but YoMama has taken the bowl, put it on the party floor, dropped trou, shat a nasty watery shit into it, stirred it up...and signed legislation forcing everyone to take a big long sip!

[quote]

AND 4 out of 5 sippers surveyed STILL preferred that cocktail to listening to "Butterfly" or "in self defense".