MR

King Felix gets hosed....Had more wins than Zach.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4663979

Felix 19-5
Zach 16-8

C'mon all you so-called sports experts, the cry-baby whiner has spoken....

I don't pay much mind to baseball, but I am wondering: Have you ever given credit to any athlete or team for an achievement?

They blew this game, they choked, they cheated, they didn't deserve it, they won on a bogus penalty etc etc.

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't pay much mind to baseball, but I am wondering: Have you ever given credit to any athlete or team for an achievement?

They blew this game, they choked, they cheated, they didn't deserve it, they won on a bogus penalty etc etc.

Actually, when deserving, yes....but that is not too often....

I present my position, and then I back it up.....

For the record - I've never accused any team of cheating. Never accused any team of choking. Never accused any team of blowing a game. So stuff it, creep.


BTW, the choice of Greinke over Felix cannot even be argued...Felix was definitely hosed.

StocktontoMalone wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't pay much mind to baseball, but I am wondering: Have you ever given credit to any athlete or team for an achievement?

They blew this game, they choked, they cheated, they didn't deserve it, they won on a bogus penalty etc etc.

Actually, when deserving, yes....but that is not too often....

I present my position, and then I back it up.....

For the record - I've never accused any team of cheating. Never accused any team of choking. Never accused any team of blowing a game. So stuff it, creep.

Well, one thing I've learned playing and watching sports, you learn a lot more and feel a lot better if you begin giving credit where it's due. Took me too long to learn that, but... hey, better late than never.

Now, in this case, I just looked at the stat lines between the two, and on paper, I'm sure many will share your view. This is probably gonna be a hot button discussion topic for a couple weeks.

StocktontoMalone wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't pay much mind to baseball, but I am wondering: Have you ever given credit to any athlete or team for an achievement?

They blew this game, they choked, they cheated, they didn't deserve it, they won on a bogus penalty etc etc.

Actually, when deserving, yes....but that is not too often....

I present my position, and then I back it up.....

For the record - I've never accused any team of cheating. Never accused any team of choking. Never accused any team of blowing a game. So stuff it, creep.


BTW, the choice of Greinke over Felix cannot even be argued...Felix was definitely hosed.

Hmm, then was was all that "stealers" stuff about and that "Penguins threw the game" stuff

StevePerryHair wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't pay much mind to baseball, but I am wondering: Have you ever given credit to any athlete or team for an achievement?

They blew this game, they choked, they cheated, they didn't deserve it, they won on a bogus penalty etc etc.

Actually, when deserving, yes....but that is not too often....

I present my position, and then I back it up.....

For the record - I've never accused any team of cheating. Never accused any team of choking. Never accused any team of blowing a game. So stuff it, creep.


BTW, the choice of Greinke over Felix cannot even be argued...Felix was definitely hosed.

Hmm, then was was all that "stealers" stuff about and that "Penguins threw the game" stuff

Don't worry, he lives in his own world. I wasn't even gonna address that ridiculous denial of fact

Ehwmatt wrote:

StevePerryHair wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't pay much mind to baseball, but I am wondering: Have you ever given credit to any athlete or team for an achievement?

They blew this game, they choked, they cheated, they didn't deserve it, they won on a bogus penalty etc etc.

Actually, when deserving, yes....but that is not too often....

I present my position, and then I back it up.....

For the record - I've never accused any team of cheating. Never accused any team of choking. Never accused any team of blowing a game. So stuff it, creep.


BTW, the choice of Greinke over Felix cannot even be argued...Felix was definitely hosed.

Hmm, then was was all that "stealers" stuff about and that "Penguins threw the game" stuff

Don't worry, he lives in his own world. I wasn't even gonna address that ridiculous denial of fact

How is that a denial of fact...I never said anything about the Penguins...other than they tank games to get high draft picks. And The refs basically handed the Stealers their last two trophies....I won't backpedal from those statements.

StocktontoMalone wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:

StevePerryHair wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't pay much mind to baseball, but I am wondering: Have you ever given credit to any athlete or team for an achievement?

They blew this game, they choked, they cheated, they didn't deserve it, they won on a bogus penalty etc etc.

Actually, when deserving, yes....but that is not too often....

I present my position, and then I back it up.....

For the record - I've never accused any team of cheating. Never accused any team of choking. Never accused any team of blowing a game. So stuff it, creep.


BTW, the choice of Greinke over Felix cannot even be argued...Felix was definitely hosed.

Hmm, then was was all that "stealers" stuff about and that "Penguins threw the game" stuff

Don't worry, he lives in his own world. I wasn't even gonna address that ridiculous denial of fact

How is that a denial of fact...I never said anything about the Penguins...other than they tank games to get high draft picks. And The refs basically handed the Stealers their last two trophies....I won't backpedal from those statements.

Saying the Penguins tank games on purpose is a way of saying they cheat AND blowing a game

StocktontoMalone wrote:King Felix gets hosed....Had more wins than Zach.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4663979

Felix 19-5
Zach 16-8

That's why wins are a useless baseball stat. Greinke is absolutely deserving of the AL Cy Young Award. You dominate like he did with a 2.16 ERA and 242 strikeouts and you put yourself in position to win the big award like this.

StocktontoMalone wrote:BTW, the choice of Greinke over Felix cannot even be argued...Felix was definitely hosed.

Not really he wasn't. I am a huge Mariners guy, but let's look at this. Grienke pitches for the woeful Royals in a hitters ballpark. Felix pitches in a fuckin huge unfriendly hitter park. Again, l love the M's, but I have no problem with Zack getting this.

StocktontoMalone wrote:Felix 19-5
Zach 16-8

Sorry dude but there is more to the Cy Young than simply wins and losses. Greinke had a SUPERB 2.16 ERA, which is significantly better than Felix' superb 2.49 ERA. Heck, if you want to go just on wins, there were 6 guys in the AL with more wins than Greinke! Felix had 217 strikeouts...Greinke had 242 and pitched 10 fewer innings than Felix! Felix waked 75 guys while Greinke only walked 55. Felix pitched 2 complete games, while Greinke pitched 6. Felix had one shutout while Greinke had 3. Felix' WHIP (walks and hits per innings pitched, which is a GREAT measuring stick for how truly great a pitcher is) was 1.14 (which is SPECTACULARLY good) while Greinke led the league at 1.07. Finally, Felix held opponents to a .287 batting average while Greinke held opponents to a .276 batting average. Sorry dude...the right guy won the award!

The Penguins throw games? Dude, back away from the glass pipe. The Pens were awful 7 years ago when they were getting draft picks and getting Fluery and then Sidney. Hockey players don't throw games. Basketballers yes, hockey guys, no. Besides, Mario Lemieux has way too much class and integrity to throw games for draft picks.

The Stealers. I say they stole one against Seattle, but how was last years stolen? That was a fair game all the way through.

I just feel that wins is an overrated stat for a picher. Strikeouts, WHIP, batting average against, walks allowed are more indicative in determining BEST pitcher....remember, this isn't MVP. It is the best pitcher in the league.

And If I think wins is an overrated stat, why am i clamoring for Felix to win? Because whoever votes on these awards changes their criteria year-to-year.

One year wins matter, the next year WHIP, and ERA matter.....

In 2002, like I haven't said it before, Pedro Lost to Zito. Pedro had every stat known to man, except wins. That year they just decided(for whatever reason) to give it to Zito - because they wanted to market him. And because an Oakland pitcher had placed 2nd the previous TWO years. Mulder Lost to Clemens in '01, and Hudson lost to Pedro in '00....and the league just couldn't let an Oakland A lose 3 years in a row....

And if anything, Roy Halladay should be ahead of Felix, based on the fact he pitches in baseball's toughest division and has to see the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays a billion times a year, versus the A's and Rangers. BIG difference.

StocktontoMalone wrote:I just feel that wins is an overrated stat for a picher. Strikeouts, WHIP, batting average against, walks allowed are more indicative in determining BEST pitcher....remember, this isn't MVP. It is the best pitcher in the league.

If this is your argument, let me ask you Joe Gerardi. If you are coaching the All Star game, who do you start? Halladay, Felix or Grienke? Halladay is a no brainer, so is that who really should have won the award?

Rockindeano wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:I just feel that wins is an overrated stat for a picher. Strikeouts, WHIP, batting average against, walks allowed are more indicative in determining BEST pitcher....remember, this isn't MVP. It is the best pitcher in the league.

If this is your argument, let me ask you Joe Gerardi. If you are coaching the All Star game, who do you start? Halladay, Felix or Grienke? Halladay is a no brainer, so is that who really should have won the award?

You are asking me who I'd start for a pitiful THREE innings in an exhibition game?

StocktontoMalone wrote:I just feel that wins is an overrated stat for a picher. Strikeouts, WHIP, batting average against, walks allowed are more indicative in determining BEST pitcher....remember, this isn't MVP. It is the best pitcher in the league.

Wait a minute.

In your opening rant, you stated Felix had more wins. Now you say wins are overrated. Dude? Which is it? I can't competitively argue the muddy waters you are creating.

Rockindeano wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:I just feel that wins is an overrated stat for a picher. Strikeouts, WHIP, batting average against, walks allowed are more indicative in determining BEST pitcher....remember, this isn't MVP. It is the best pitcher in the league.

Wait a minute.

In your opening rant, you stated Felix had more wins. Now you say wins are overrated. Dude? Which is it? I can't competitively argue the muddy waters you are creating.

Keep reading that post, genius.....light will dawn.


My intention(an that's why i would make a GREAT lawyer) was to argue against Greinke. Then using your(collectively) own words, points and counterpoints to use in my argument for Pedro winning in '02....

Go ahead....i know. I'm a genius.

Enigma869 wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:Felix 19-5
Zach 16-8

Sorry dude but there is more to the Cy Young than simply wins and losses. Greinke had a SUPERB 2.16 ERA, which is significantly better than Felix' superb 2.49 ERA. Heck, if you want to go just on wins, there were 6 guys in the AL with more wins than Greinke! Felix had 217 strikeouts...Greinke had 242 and pitched 10 fewer innings than Felix! Felix waked 75 guys while Greinke only walked 55. Felix pitched 2 complete games, while Greinke pitched 6. Felix had one shutout while Greinke had 3. Felix' WHIP (walks and hits per innings pitched, which is a GREAT measuring stick for how truly great a pitcher is) was 1.14 (which is SPECTACULARLY good) while Greinke led the league at 1.07. Finally, Felix held opponents to a .287 batting average while Greinke held opponents to a .276 batting average. Sorry dude...the right guy won the award!

Thank you guys(you and Deano). Great points that I'm too lazy/busy to lay out there. I saw him pitch and he is nasty.

The Royals have sucked since the late 80's and we need something to get excited about.

He is a great great guy and has an interesting story regarding what he has had to overcome.

If he were with the Yankees, Red Sox or any other big market team with a supporting cast, he could have easily won 25 games. He is one of those you have to see to believe.

Greinke deserved the award. He bested Hernandez in virtually every category and did so while playing on a 97 loss team. Put this guy on a good team and he probably wins 20-22 games.

hoagiepete wrote:

Enigma869 wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:Felix 19-5
Zach 16-8

Sorry dude but there is more to the Cy Young than simply wins and losses. Greinke had a SUPERB 2.16 ERA, which is significantly better than Felix' superb 2.49 ERA. Heck, if you want to go just on wins, there were 6 guys in the AL with more wins than Greinke! Felix had 217 strikeouts...Greinke had 242 and pitched 10 fewer innings than Felix! Felix waked 75 guys while Greinke only walked 55. Felix pitched 2 complete games, while Greinke pitched 6. Felix had one shutout while Greinke had 3. Felix' WHIP (walks and hits per innings pitched, which is a GREAT measuring stick for how truly great a pitcher is) was 1.14 (which is SPECTACULARLY good) while Greinke led the league at 1.07. Finally, Felix held opponents to a .287 batting average while Greinke held opponents to a .276 batting average. Sorry dude...the right guy won the award!

Thank you guys(you and Deano). Great points that I'm too lazy/busy to lay out there. I saw him pitch and he is nasty.

The Royals have sucked since the late 80's and we need something to get excited about.

He is a great great guy and has an interesting story regarding what he has had to overcome.

If he were with the Yankees, Red Sox or any other big market team with a supporting cast, he could have easily won 25 games. He is one of those you have to see to believe.

But that's the point. He will rot in KC. He'll put up great pitching stats, and that team will mire in mediocrity. KC will continue to lose, and when he is allowed to go elsewhere - he'll cash-in for big bucks on a powerhouse team....happens all the time.

Same thing with King Felix, Adrian Gonzalez.....etc. Great guys who will wither away in their respective cities.

StocktontoMalone wrote:

hoagiepete wrote:

Enigma869 wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:Felix 19-5
Zach 16-8

Sorry dude but there is more to the Cy Young than simply wins and losses. Greinke had a SUPERB 2.16 ERA, which is significantly better than Felix' superb 2.49 ERA. Heck, if you want to go just on wins, there were 6 guys in the AL with more wins than Greinke! Felix had 217 strikeouts...Greinke had 242 and pitched 10 fewer innings than Felix! Felix waked 75 guys while Greinke only walked 55. Felix pitched 2 complete games, while Greinke pitched 6. Felix had one shutout while Greinke had 3. Felix' WHIP (walks and hits per innings pitched, which is a GREAT measuring stick for how truly great a pitcher is) was 1.14 (which is SPECTACULARLY good) while Greinke led the league at 1.07. Finally, Felix held opponents to a .287 batting average while Greinke held opponents to a .276 batting average. Sorry dude...the right guy won the award!

Thank you guys(you and Deano). Great points that I'm too lazy/busy to lay out there. I saw him pitch and he is nasty.

The Royals have sucked since the late 80's and we need something to get excited about.

He is a great great guy and has an interesting story regarding what he has had to overcome.

If he were with the Yankees, Red Sox or any other big market team with a supporting cast, he could have easily won 25 games. He is one of those you have to see to believe.

But that's the point. He will rot in KC. He'll put up great pitching stats, and that team will mire in mediocrity. KC will continue to lose, and when he is allowed to go elsewhere - he'll cash-in for big bucks on a powerhouse team....happens all the time.

Same thing with King Felix, Adrian Gonzalez.....etc. Great guys who will wither away in their respective cities.

I thought the point was he didn't deserve the award, not a thesis on the ills of the MLB system (which suck, for sure)?

Personally, I think he does deserve the award....but controversy sells.

Pedro deserved it in '02 for the SAME reasons Zach deserved it today. All I'm saying.

But if I said that, I couldn't make my point with your words, now could I?

StocktontoMalone wrote:
But that's the point. He will rot in KC. He'll put up great pitching stats, and that team will mire in mediocrity. KC will continue to lose, and when he is allowed to go elsewhere - he'll cash-in for big bucks on a powerhouse team....happens all the time.

Same thing with King Felix, Adrian Gonzalez.....etc. Great guys who will wither away in their respective cities.

I am now fully convinced (more than ever)that you A) have shit for brains, B) are on some heavy drugs, or C) both!!! What the fuck are you talking about and what relevance does this have to your assanine claim that Felix Hernandez "got hosed"????

Saint John wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:
But that's the point. He will rot in KC. He'll put up great pitching stats, and that team will mire in mediocrity. KC will continue to lose, and when he is allowed to go elsewhere - he'll cash-in for big bucks on a powerhouse team....happens all the time.

Same thing with King Felix, Adrian Gonzalez.....etc. Great guys who will wither away in their respective cities.

I am now fully convinced (more than ever)that you A) have shit for brains, B) are on some heavy drugs, or C) both!!! What the fuck are you talking about and what relevance does this have to your assanine claim that Felix Hernandez "got hosed"????

How can you be so obtuse?

heee heee, I am LMAO!!!
It isn't just me, you make otherwise non~violent people
want to knock you upside the head!!!

We aren't all obtuse!!

Michigan Girl wrote:heee heee, I am LMAO!!!
It isn't just me, you make otherwise non~violent people
want to knock you upside the head!!!

We aren't all obtuse!!

His gift is our curse

Michigan Girl wrote:heee heee, I am LMAO!!!
It isn't just me, you make otherwise non~violent people
want to knock you upside the head!!!

We aren't all obtuse!!

I got one thing to say to you: Penn State!!!!!!

Greinke deserved the award. It would not even be close in my mind.

Everything doesn't have to be about controversy. Steeler won those two Super Bowls fair and square. Last years I don't even know how it can be questioned.

You wish everything to be clear cut like when UNLV beat the living shit out Duke in the National Championship in 1990? What about the next year when Duke barely beat UNLV in the semifinals. Just because it was close does not taint it. It was close because both teams were great teams and the best team, that day, won.

Now I will give you one award this year where the player got hosed and that is NL Gold Glove at 3b. Kevin Kouzmanoff set the record for highest fielding percentage of any 3b in the HISTORY on MLB and lost to Ryan Zimmerman. The Hall of Fame asked for his glove at the end of the year for his achievement yet he can't even win the award. His mediocre offensive performance did him in, but gold gloves are a defensive only award.

Hollywood wrote:Greinke deserved the award. It would not even be close in my mind.

Everything doesn't have to be about controversy. Steeler won those two Super Bowls fair and square. Last years I don't even know how it can be questioned.

You wish everything to be clear cut like when UNLV beat the living shit out Duke in the National Championship in 1990? What about the next year when Duke barely beat UNLV in the semifinals. Just because it was close does not taint it. It was close because both teams were great teams and the best team, that day, won.

Now I will give you one award this year where the player got hosed and that is NL Gold Glove at 3b. Kevin Kouzmanoff set the record for highest fielding percentage of any 3b in the HISTORY on MLB and lost to Ryan Zimmerman. The Hall of Fame asked for his glove at the end of the year for his achievement yet he can't even win the award. His mediocre offensive performance did him in, but gold gloves are a defensive only award.

Just because you think that doesn't make it so. Did you actually watch the games?