Yes We Can ! ;)

[Behshad]

Copy & paste all you want Fact Finder. In your face


No but seriously , this is the first step towards something that will benefit the middle class. The system needs fixed and you have to be openminded and be willing to take chances if you want to have a chance to fix what's been broken for decades.

[S2M]

I seriously hope that bill DIDN'T pass....

[Behshad]

I seriously hope that bill DIDN'T pass....

Okie dokie , Crystal Light

[bluejeangirl76]

I seriously hope that bill DIDN'T pass....

"10:47 PM ET: The House has passed health care reform by a vote of 219 to 212. They will now vote on the "fixes" they want to the Senate bill."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100321/ ... ews_ts1288

[S2M]

I'm truly embarrassed to be an American...welcome to the new People's Republic of America...Behshad, if you think this bill is gonna miraculously fix shit- I just found your village idiot.

[Everett]

Are we totally broke yet????

[Voyager]

Are we totally broke yet????

We already were. This should put the final nail in the coffin.

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for having a fair health insurance system where people are not unfairly bankrupted due to losing their health insurance when they get laid off and from out-of-control health care costs. I just fail to see how we can finance it.

[Everett]

Are we totally broke yet????

We already were. This should put the final nail in the coffin.

Give us all 100k and that will fix the economy

[RossValoryRocks]

Copy & paste all you want Fact Finder. In your face


No but seriously , this is the first step towards something that will benefit the middle class. The system needs fixed and you have to be openminded and be willing to take chances if you want to have a chance to fix what's been broken for decades.

Dude you just cheered the bankrupting of this country...and the end of the way of life we have know for over 200 years...congrats Nero...have fun fiddling while Rome burns.

The CBO scoring of this is dependent on the POLITICIANS cutting Medicare and Medicade...which they won't because the need the elderly vote...we will be unable to pay for this...not without tax rates SO HIGH that it will be almost not worth it to work.

And the other thing is when somethign is given not earned...then the person who recieves it doesn not value it...this bill (not reform, I am all for that) is going to fuck us hard...you think the recession we are in is bad...wait 10 years...the depression that is going to come because we will not be able to borrow enough money to cover our bills ( as in the Government)...our GDP is going to go into the shitter and we are fucked.

I am seriously thinking of taking all my net worth, selling everything and moving to Costa Rica...I am not kidding...if I sell everything I own now I can live a VERY good life there...by some nice property...sit by the beach and get on the internet and watch the USA fall apart.

[Behshad]

I'm truly embarrassed to be an American...welcome to the new People's Republic of America...Behshad, if you think this bill is gonna miraculously fix shit- I just found your village idiot.

It's the first step. Sticking your head in the sand and hope that things will change WITHOUT any actual changes being made is what makes you the idiot. Of course it's easy for you to say Nay , without having any suggestions to improve the system.
I have seen the success of "healthcare for everyone " plan and think we are on the right tracks.

[Voyager]

Are we totally broke yet????

We already were. This should put the final nail in the coffin.

Give us all 100k and that will fix the economy

Sorry, they already gave our share to AIG, GM, Chase, and Fannie Mae. Instead of a bailout, we get a tax hike to pay for the indulgences of these companies.

Makes you want to file bankruptcy and say fuck em' all.

[RossValoryRocks]

I have seen the success of "healthcare for everyone " plan and think we are on the right tracks.

Bullshit...we are FUCKED...and if you KNEW A GOD DAMNED THING ABOUT ECONOMICS you would understand what this is going to do to our country.

Enjoy your free healthcare in 2014....and in 2018 when this country falls apart completely I hope you are still cheering...but you won't be.

Smoke and mirrors...and stagnant GDP because of astronomical tax rates...I could explain the taxation thing to you...but I am just too tired to do so right now.

[Behshad]

I have seen the success of "healthcare for everyone " plan and think we are on the right tracks.

Bullshit...we are FUCKED...and if you KNEW A GOD DAMNED THING ABOUT ECONOMICS you would understand what this is going to do to our country.

Enjoy your free healthcare in 2014....and in 2018 when this country falls apart completely I hope you are still cheering...but you won't be.

Smoke and mirrors...and stagnant GDP because of astronomical tax rates...I could explain the taxation thing to you...but I am just too tired to do so right now.

Don't get all worked up. You may need another Xray after this . Did you have a better plan ?! Could you come up with any way to fix what has been broken for decades.

Just give it a chance and you will be surprised how this will put and end to the way the insurance companies & hospitals scam people ,,,,

[Behshad]

Also

you keep forgetting that I lived in Sweden and paid a 33% tax. So I know exactly how it works. I would GLADLY pay 33% of my income right now and have FREE healthcare and schooling for my children. Yea , even college.

[Everett]

Let's just hope i have a job in 2014 w/benefits so i won't get fined

[Jana]

Also

you keep forgetting that I lived in Sweden and paid a 33% tax. So I know exactly how it works. I would GLADLY pay 33% of my income right now and have FREE healthcare and schooling for my children. Yea , even college.

Is it Sweden or Denmark that is supposed to be the happiest country? Of course, one person said, in reply to the article, that it might have been b/c her fellow countrymen were probably drunk when they answered the questionnaire or interview, whatever it was.

[RossValoryRocks]

I have seen the success of "healthcare for everyone " plan and think we are on the right tracks.

Bullshit...we are FUCKED...and if you KNEW A GOD DAMNED THING ABOUT ECONOMICS you would understand what this is going to do to our country.

Enjoy your free healthcare in 2014....and in 2018 when this country falls apart completely I hope you are still cheering...but you won't be.

Smoke and mirrors...and stagnant GDP because of astronomical tax rates...I could explain the taxation thing to you...but I am just too tired to do so right now.

Don't get all worked up. You may need another Xray after this . Did you have a better plan ?! Could you come up with any way to fix what has been broken for decades.

Just give it a chance and you will be surprised how this will put and end to the way the insurance companies & hospitals scam people ,,,,

No it won't...because the politicians cannot and WILL NOT be able to deliver on the promises made in the bill...I read the whole damn thing...2700 pages of complete and utter bullshit. You REALLY think that the politicans are going to cut medicare and medicade by $400 million dollars??? It would be POLITICAL suicide for them to do so...so where do they get the money?? Raise taxes...on ALL of us...which kills GDP....which means no growth...which is BAD.

The FACT is that they could raise taxes to 90% and STILL only get 20% of GDP...but if they did GDP would dive into the gutter, which means less money for the government...which means they need to borrow...however since we have so much debt no one will lend to us...except at HUGE interest rates...because our credit rating is going into the shitter...Moody's says we will probably lose our AAA status.

You and Deano can crow all you want about the little "victory", Phyrric though it is...but you are being short sighted...VERY short sighted...as people usually are when they are getting something for FREE without having put the effort into earning it.

I do have a plan as a matter of fact, and it differs from this monstrosity AND from what the republicans want to do...and I will explain in detail tomorrow.

And our healthcare system isn't broken, or it wasn't broken...it will be soon though.

[Maui Tom]

Tweet from Dennis Miller.....



If you look closely into Nancy Pelosi’s eyes you can see that rotating beach ball that appears when your Mac crashes...

[squirt1]

All we needed was covering the 37 million w/o ins and making the Ins Co's cover pre-existing conditions. We needed tort reform to get lawyers out of the cost of medicine. Lets see how many states sue. They are dealing with the Medicaid fiasco, Medicare runs out in 2017, and now businesses will not participate by lay offs/non expansions. This is far from over . I want every good idea politicians have ,to try to buy votes, to backfire. Heads will roll in November ! IRS to enforce ,this is scary, as they can attach bank accounts to enforce. If you earn 15-20 thousand ,you too will pay whether you can afford it or not. How much will it cost a month? Wait till the Ins Co's raise rates to compensate.

[JH'sTXfan]

All we needed was covering the 37 million w/o ins and making the Ins Co's cover pre-existing conditions. We needed tort reform to get lawyers out of the cost of medicine. Lets see how many states sue. They are dealing with the Medicaid fiasco, Medicare runs out in 2017, and now businesses will not participate by lay offs/non expansions. This is far from over . I want every good idea politicians have ,to try to buy votes, to backfire. Heads will roll in November ! IRS to enforce ,this is scary, as they can attach bank accounts to enforce. If you earn 15-20 thousand ,you too will pay whether you can afford it or not. How much will it cost a month? Wait till the Ins Co's raise rates to compensate.

Think it will be automatically deducted from our paychecks, like FICA and FIT?

[Angel]

This just makes me sad.

[fredinator]

" Posted by wolfman445
51-55 year old member
262 experience groups and 80 stories
My wife worked at several major health insurers as a claim approval nurse...she refuses to do it further.....because their entire plan to make a profit is to take in premiums from people, pay as few claims as possible, and keep at least 30% of the money. To facilitate this the companies drop sick people, refuse dying people care and make up crazy reasons to deny care to the rest....her supervisor wore a t-shirt saying "born to deny".

Now she is the chief of a State program which serves the indigent...and sees the total cost of care for everyone. Every sick person is treated but the poor get their care at ER rates which are astronomical....and end up really sick in some cases and burdening the States for years.

The collection of idiots, morons, civil war re-enactors, medicare recipients and the millionaires who are telling them what to yell, are defending a system that is so bad that many people like my wife refuse to participate. Adding a federal insurance pool would drive down the costs for everyones plan, for simple economic reasons.

Our medical science is good....our medical care driven by our for profit insurance plans is atrocious.....if you don't believe what some polititians say, I understand, but at least believe what the people who actually operate the current system say....if you wish to pay in a dollar and get 65 cents back, go to Vegas , at least you will have some fun.....don't do it with the current health insurance system. If everyone were covered by an insurance plan State programs would actually cost little or nothing, hospitals could stop charging 65 dollars for an asprin and the kid with a cold who is in the ER ahead of you could go to a health clinic instead.

So protesters please go back to whatever takes up halfwit's time and let the rest of us have more health insurance for less money."

Better healthcare for all is better for our country. If it means our government has to do it, then so be it.

[pinkfloyd1973]

I'm already paying up the ass for insurance from my job and getting it again from the high taxes I have to pay in Crook (Cook) County IL



Robin :?

[stevew2]

Also

you keep forgetting that I lived in Sweden and paid a 33% tax. So I know exactly how it works. I would GLADLY pay 33% of my income right now and have FREE healthcare and schooling for my children. Yea , even college.

At least you got good porn with all them fuckin hot blond chicks there, and fuckin good hot chocolate you dicker

[stevew2]

" Posted by wolfman445
51-55 year old member
262 experience groups and 80 stories
My wife worked at several major health insurers as a claim approval nurse...she refuses to do it further.....because their entire plan to make a profit is to take in premiums from people, pay as few claims as possible, and keep at least 30% of the money. To facilitate this the companies drop sick people, refuse dying people care and make up crazy reasons to deny care to the rest....her supervisor wore a t-shirt saying "born to deny".

Now she is the chief of a State program which serves the indigent...and sees the total cost of care for everyone. Every sick person is treated but the poor get their care at ER rates which are astronomical....and end up really sick in some cases and burdening the States for years.

The collection of idiots, morons, civil war re-enactors, medicare recipients and the millionaires who are telling them what to yell, are defending a system that is so bad that many people like my wife refuse to participate. Adding a federal insurance pool would drive down the costs for everyones plan, for simple economic reasons.

Our medical science is good....our medical care driven by our for profit insurance plans is atrocious.....if you don't believe what some polititians say, I understand, but at least believe what the people who actually operate the current system say....if you wish to pay in a dollar and get 65 cents back, go to Vegas , at least you will have some fun.....don't do it with the current health insurance system. If everyone were covered by an insurance plan State programs would actually cost little or nothing, hospitals could stop charging 65 dollars for an asprin and the kid with a cold who is in the ER ahead of you could go to a health clinic instead.

So protesters please go back to whatever takes up halfwit's time and let the rest of us have more health insurance for less money."

Better healthcare for all is better for our country. If it means our government has to do it, then so be it.

any picts of you wife?

[annpea]

I

have seen the success of "healthcare for everyone " plan and think we are on the right tracks.

Bullshit...we are FUCKED...and if you KNEW A GOD DAMNED THING ABOUT ECONOMICS you would understand what this is going to do to our country.

Enjoy your free healthcare in 2014....and in 2018 when this country falls apart completely I hope you are still cheering...but you won't be.

Smoke and mirrors...and stagnant GDP because of astronomical tax rates...I could explain the taxation thing to you...but I am just too tired to do so right now.

Don't get all worked up. You may need another Xray after this . Did you have a better plan ?! Could you come up with any way to fix what has been broken for decades.

Just give it a chance and you will be surprised how this will put and end to the way the insurance companies & hospitals scam people ,,,,

No it won't...because the politicians cannot and WILL NOT be able to deliver on the promises made in the bill...I read the whole damn thing...2700 pages of complete and utter bullshit. You REALLY think that the politicans are going to cut medicare and medicade by $400 million dollars??? It would be POLITICAL suicide for them to do so...so where do they get the money?? Raise taxes...on ALL of us...which kills GDP....which means no growth...which is BAD.

The FACT is that they could raise taxes to 90% and STILL only get 20% of GDP...but if they did GDP would dive into the gutter, which means less money for the government...which means they need to borrow...however since we have so much debt no one will lend to us...except at HUGE interest rates...because our credit rating is going into the shitter...Moody's says we will probably lose our AAA status.

You and Deano can crow all you want about the little "victory", Phyrric though it is...but you are being short sighted...VERY short sighted...as people usually are when they are getting something for FREE without having put the effort into earning it.

I do have a plan as a matter of fact, and it differs from this monstrosity AND from what the republicans want to do...and I will explain in detail tomorrow.

And our healthcare system isn't broken, or it wasn't broken...it will be soon though.

I, work in the healthcare field and yes it is very much broken... It would scare you silly if you only knew half the truth... stop talking and start looking just a little deeper beyond what you've been conditioned to believe.

[annpea]

" Posted by wolfman445
51-55 year old member
262 experience groups and 80 stories
My wife worked at several major health insurers as a claim approval nurse...she refuses to do it further.....because their entire plan to make a profit is to take in premiums from people, pay as few claims as possible, and keep at least 30% of the money. To facilitate this the companies drop sick people, refuse dying people care and make up crazy reasons to deny care to the rest....her supervisor wore a t-shirt saying "born to deny".
Now she is the chief of a State program which serves the indigent...and sees the total cost of care for everyone. Every sick person is treated but the poor get their care at ER rates which are astronomical....and end up really sick in some cases and burdening the States for years.

The collection of idiots, morons, civil war re-enactors, medicare recipients and the millionaires who are telling them what to yell, are defending a system that is so bad that many people like my wife refuse to participate. Adding a federal insurance pool would drive down the costs for everyones plan, for simple economic reasons.

Our medical science is good....our medical care driven by our for profit insurance plans is atrocious.....if you don't believe what some polititians say, I understand, but at least believe what the people who actually operate the current system say....if you wish to pay in a dollar and get 65 cents back, go to Vegas , at least you will have some fun.....don't do it with the current health insurance system. If everyone were covered by an insurance plan State programs would actually cost little or nothing, hospitals could stop charging 65 dollars for an asprin and the kid with a cold who is in the ER ahead of you could go to a health clinic instead.

So protesters please go back to whatever takes up halfwit's time and let the rest of us have more health insurance for less money."

Better healthcare for all is better for our country. If it means our government has to do it, then so be it.

+10000. The nail has been hit directly on the head, enuf said.

[slucero]

All this will do is kill any possibility of job creation in this country, as employers put off hiring and consider firing, all in an effort to figure out how to stay under the thresh holds and not incur additional costs.... ultimately this will cost people jobs.

38 States are already working up legislation to fight this bill. South Carolina's Attoney General is filing suit. Idaho's governor has already signed a bill into law requiring his attorney general to sue Congress if it passes health care legislation that forces residents to buy insurance.

Caterpillar Inc. said the health-care overhaul legislation would increase the company's health-care costs by more than $100 million in the first year alone. Guess how they'll deal with it... layoffs...

Yup ... this is a good idea...



The sections described below are taken from HR 3590 as agreed to by the Senate and from the reconciliation bill as displayed by the Rules Committee.

1. You are young and don’t want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the “privilege.” (Section 1501)

2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You’ll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That’s because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person’s health status. (Section 2701).

3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711).

4. Think you’d like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn’t cover preventive care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that’s what the customer wants. (Section 2712).

5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn’t allow your employers’ slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough. (Section 2714).

6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

You’re a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services.
You’re a woman who can’t have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services.
You’re a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section 1302).

7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a “Bronze plan,” which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d) (1) (A))

8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you’d like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough. (Section 1302 (c) (2) (A).

9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).

10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it? Sorry, can’t do that. (Section 9005 (i)).

11. If you are a physician and you don’t want the government looking over your shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use, provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be just for informational purposes. It’s not like the government will ever use it to intervene in your practice and patients’ care. Of course not. (Section 3003 (i))

12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an owner and have a “Medicare provider agreement” by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010 in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn’t have those by then, you are out of luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A))

13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you can’t (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a country where, over the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) (C)).

14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well, if that increase is deemed “unreasonable” by the Secretary of Health and Human Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003)

15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3 billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion, jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in 2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)).

16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or $200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).

The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405).

17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7 billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8 billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).)

18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014).

19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015).

That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section 1402).

20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9017).

[Babyblue]

This just makes me sad.

I am not sad i am so pissed off about this crap.

[gr8dane]

Also

you keep forgetting that I lived in Sweden and paid a 33% tax. So I know exactly how it works. I would GLADLY pay 33% of my income right now and have FREE healthcare and schooling for my children. Yea , even college.

Is it Sweden or Denmark that is supposed to be the happiest country? Of course, one person said, in reply to the article, that it might have been b/c her fellow countrymen were probably drunk when they answered the questionnaire or interview, whatever it was.

Denmark. Actually,it's most content.