MR

How can rational human beings believe this stuff??



FBI launches raids on Christian militia group which is 'preparing for battle against an Anti-Christ'

By Wil Longbottom


FBI agents arrested at least three suspected members of a Christian militia group during raids across three states over the weekend.

The raids took place in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio and were targeted at the Hutaree group which claims to be preparing for a battle against 'an Anti-Christ'.

A law enforcement official said the people arrested, believed to include the leader of the militia, face gun charges.
militia arrests


Scott Wilson, an FBI spokesman, said two people were arrested on Saturday in two Ohio towns.

A third arrest was made in north east Illinois yesterday following a raid in north west Indiana.

It is unclear what prompted the raids, but Michael Lackomar, a spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia (SMVM), said one of his team leaders received a phone call from members of Hutaree.
militia arrests


He said the caller claimed their home in Michigan was being raided by officers from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

Mr Lackomar said: 'They said they were under attack by the ATF and wanted a place to hide. My team leader said, "no thanks".'

He added that the SMVM was not affiliated with Hutaree, but some of its members had attended training sessions with his group that focus on survival and shooting practice.

On its website, Hutaree quotes several Bible passages and states: 'We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ.

'Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment.'

Neighbours said officers swooped on a rural property near Adrian - around 70 miles south west of Detroit - on Saturday.

George Ponce, 18, who works at a pizzeria next door to a house raided in Hammond, Indiana, said he saw a swarm of officers swoop on the property.

He said: 'I heard a yell, "get back inside!" and saw a squad member pointing a rifle at us.

'They told us the bomb squad was going in, sweeping the house for bombs.'

Another raid took place at a trailer park in Sandusky, Ohio.
militia arrests

Group: Three suspected militia members are due to appear in court today to face gun charges

Neighbour Michael Morin said he saw officers carrying rifles run past his window on Saturday night.

He said: 'They took over the block like it was the Army. I thought we were being invaded.'

Terry Mills, manager of the trailer park, said authorities blocked off the street for an hour.

He added: 'Needless to say this has everyone talking. We have a lot of retirees here who don't want all this commotion.'

The people arrested are due to appear in court this morning.

I think they got the wrong people b is still on the loose

brywool wrote:How can rational human beings believe this stuff??

Most Christians believe in the Biblical prophesies that the Antichrist will arise in the last days. The part that's really dumb, though, is if they believe in it, why do they think they will be able to fight him? The Bible says that he will be defeated by Jesus, not by any human.

conversationpc wrote:

brywool wrote:How can rational human beings believe this stuff??

Most Christians believe in the Biblical prophesies that the Antichrist will arise in the last days. The part that's really dumb, though, is if they believe in it, why do they think they will be able to fight him? The Bible says that he will be defeated by Jesus, not by any human.

Absolutely!!! And he won't be hangin' around a nice place like Michigan and the Midwest ...
he'll go for the sinners in Cali first~to strengthen his army!!

Michigan Girl wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

brywool wrote:How can rational human beings believe this stuff??

Most Christians believe in the Biblical prophesies that the Antichrist will arise in the last days. The part that's really dumb, though, is if they believe in it, why do they think they will be able to fight him? The Bible says that he will be defeated by Jesus, not by any human.

Absolutely!!! And he won't be hangin' around a nice place like Michigan and the Midwest ...
he'll go for the sinners in Cali first~to strengthen his army!!

That is debatable The only thing nice about michigan is robocop

it boggles my mind that in the 21st Century, Adults can actually think of this stuff.
Ugh, no wonder the world is in the shape it's in.

I AM waiting for the Easter Bunny though. That little bugger crapped all over my floor last year. Thought it was Cocoa Puffs but they tasted funny.

brywool wrote:it boggles my mind that in the 21st Century, Adults can actually think of this stuff.
Ugh, no wonder the world is in the shape it's in.

I AM waiting for the Easter Bunny though. That little bugger crapped all over my floor last year. Thought it was Cocoa Puffs but they tasted funny.

lol ...ewww!!! :wink:

Michigan Girl wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

brywool wrote:How can rational human beings believe this stuff??

Most Christians believe in the Biblical prophesies that the Antichrist will arise in the last days. The part that's really dumb, though, is if they believe in it, why do they think they will be able to fight him? The Bible says that he will be defeated by Jesus, not by any human.

Absolutely!!! And he won't be hangin' around a nice place like Michigan and the Midwest ...
he'll go for the sinners in Cali first~to strengthen his army!!

yea where all the nuts fruits are

Hammond, Indiana is about 5 minutes from me. Lots of weird fuckers there.

Saint John wrote:Hammond, Indiana is about 5 minutes from me. Lots of weird fuckers there.

Like Tito?

We've had a couple false alarms. I twice thought we had elected the anti Christ to the President's office. When he comes he will come in a high position of power, so as to have dominion over all of us little people.

steveo777 wrote:We've had a couple false alarms. I twice thought we had elected the anti Christ to the President's office. WHEN HE CUMS he will come in a high position of power, so as to have dominion over all of us little people.

I thought you were talkin about Clinton at first fat ass

stevew2 wrote:

steveo777 wrote:We've had a couple false alarms. I twice thought we had elected the anti Christ to the President's office. WHEN HE CUMS he will come in a high position of power, so as to have dominion over all of us little people.

I thought you were talkin about Clinton at first fat ass

Oh, a man who believed his sword was mighty.....and it was. Thanks to Bill, I learned that a BJ was not really sex.

steveo777 wrote:

stevew2 wrote:

steveo777 wrote:We've had a couple false alarms. I twice thought we had elected the anti Christ to the President's office. WHEN HE CUMS he will come in a high position of power, so as to have dominion over all of us little people.

I thought you were talkin about Clinton at first fat ass

Oh, a man who believed his sword was mighty.....and it was. Thanks to Bill, I learned that a BJ was not really sex.

No its is a discount warehouse

brywool wrote:it boggles my mind that in the 21st Century, Adults can actually think of this stuff.
Ugh, no wonder the world is in the shape it's in.

It boggles my mind when people DON'T believe in God.

conversationpc wrote:

brywool wrote:it boggles my mind that in the 21st Century, Adults can actually think of this stuff.
Ugh, no wonder the world is in the shape it's in.

It boggles my mind when people DON'T believe in God.

Amen, brother! How can one look at all the beautiful creation and the miracle that is another human and not believe?

As the moral fiber of the world continues to sink to new lows denial of God is one way of not having to feel accountable to anyone. I strongly dislike religious discussions and recognize that organized religion does spawn some real nut cases, as well.

conversationpc wrote:

brywool wrote:it boggles my mind that in the 21st Century, Adults can actually think of this stuff.
Ugh, no wonder the world is in the shape it's in.

It boggles my mind when people DON'T believe in God.

Agreed

ProgRocker53 wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

brywool wrote:it boggles my mind that in the 21st Century, Adults can actually think of this stuff.
Ugh, no wonder the world is in the shape it's in.

It boggles my mind when people DON'T believe in God.

Agreed

I'll second that with an Amen.

conversationpc wrote:

brywool wrote:it boggles my mind that in the 21st Century, Adults can actually think of this stuff.
Ugh, no wonder the world is in the shape it's in.

It boggles my mind when people DON'T believe in God.

I agree.

steveo777 wrote:Amen, brother! How can one look at all the beautiful creation and the miracle that is another human and not believe?

As the moral fiber of the world continues to sink to new lows denial of God is one way of not having to feel accountable to anyone. I strongly dislike religious discussions and recognize that organized religion does spawn some real nut cases, as well.

Yet for me, and all the atheists I know, it's the total opposite. We don't believe in some higher power controlling or influencing our lives, so we have to be 100% accountable for ourselves, our actions and the consequences of what we do. It's up to me to live in my community productively, and if I screw up, it is entirely up to me to make amends; I don't have the out of believing that if I simply feel sorry, God will forgive me. (Yes, I know that the docterine of forgiveness actually says to be forgiven, one has to feel contrition and admit to the wrong, make amends for the wrong and resolve not to repeat the wrong, but I know far too many people who ignore the last two parts.) If I jurt someone, or do something wrong, I have to make amends because it's the only way I can forgive me. And I don't have the excuse of 'but the Bible says...' or 'but God wants...' to justify being an intolerant jerk to other people.

Not saying all believers are jerks - far from it; some of the best people I know are firm believers. And I'm not saying all atheists are morally superior - again, far from it; I've known several atheists who are total buttheads. The point is, jerks come in all denominations, as do the irresponsible; you're a jerk because you don't give a shit about other people if it interfers with what you want, not because you do or don't believe in God.

I'm tired of being told that not believing in God is just an excuse to get out of being accountable to society. Shallow, selfish people will use any excuse they can to get out of having to feel accountable to anyone; it's got bugger all to do with faith, or a lack of it.

Arianddu wrote:Yet for me, and all the atheists I know, it's the total opposite. We don't believe in some higher power controlling or influencing our lives, so we have to be 100% accountable for ourselves, our actions and the consequences of what we do.

And yet it's because of my belief in God and that I will be held ultimately accountable for my actions that I as a Christian do the same.

Not saying all believers are jerks - far from it; some of the best people I know are firm believers. And I'm not saying all atheists are morally superior - again, far from it; I've known several atheists who are total buttheads. The point is, jerks come in all denominations, as do the irresponsible; you're a jerk because you don't give a shit about other people if it interfers with what you want, not because you do or don't believe in God.

Well said.

I'm tired of being told that not believing in God is just an excuse to get out of being accountable to society.

There are certainly some atheists who feel/act that way but, you're right. I don't think it's valid for the majority.

Religion Is based on morality, morality is not based on religion....

I'm agnostic, but live a very moral life.....

Please don't confuse the two.

Religion, to me, is a coping mechanism for some personal shortcoming, or character flaw.

StocktontoMalone wrote:Religion, to me, is a coping mechanism for some personal shortcoming, or character flaw.

It is...It's call "sin". Everyone does it.

Regardless, many religious folk probably feel the same about atheism.

StocktontoMalone wrote:Religion Is based on morality, morality is not based on religion....

I'm agnostic, but live a very moral life.....

Please don't confuse the two.

Religion, to me, is a coping mechanism for some personal shortcoming, or character flaw.

Religion is based on faith.

In cases like this it is faith in 'somebody' rather then God.

That is a huge problem, IMO, in religion of today...the pastor, or preacher, is the one who the people have faith in. The Bible and God are then that one person's interpretation and THAT is what people have faith in. Instead, they should have faith in the God they let reside inside their heart, and the words that THEY read in the Bible, in the context it was meant to be in. But, whatever, I don't think that happens enough nowadays.

Monker wrote:That is a huge problem, IMO, in religion of today...the pastor, or preacher, is the one who the people have faith in. The Bible and God are then that one person's interpretation and THAT is what people have faith in. Instead, they should have faith in the God they let reside inside their heart, and the words that THEY read in the Bible, in the context it was meant to be in. But, whatever, I don't think that happens enough nowadays.

Well said and agreed.

Wow!

I got two words for ya:

The Crusades

StocktontoMalone wrote:I got two words for ya:

The Crusades

I love how people bring up this stuff...As if it's a reason for anyone to believe or not to believe. Makes no difference whatsoever to my faith. If it's wrong, it's wrong, regardless of the tool that power-hungry people used to achieve their goal.

StocktontoMalone wrote:I got two words for ya:

The Crusades

The Crusades should have been limited to just Muslims and they should have all been killed. This world would be a lot better without them today. Just like Islam now. Kill every one of them.

conversationpc wrote:

Monker wrote:That is a huge problem, IMO, in religion of today...the pastor, or preacher, is the one who the people have faith in. The Bible and God are then that one person's interpretation and THAT is what people have faith in. Instead, they should have faith in the God they let reside inside their heart, and the words that THEY read in the Bible, in the context it was meant to be in. But, whatever, I don't think that happens enough nowadays.

Well said and agreed.

Wow!

I agree also. Organized religion has always been a problem throughout history. Today, I think megachurches are doing more to harm Bibilcal teaching than anything else. They are the Wal-Mart Supercenters of Christianity, one-stop shops designed to attract people based on material offerings like killer AV systems and built-in Starbucks. The teaching doesn't seem to be too heavy on personal accountability, and often gets flavored with motivational style material -- can't scare away the wealthy donors who pay for the multi-million $ structures, and megachurches usually crop up in the wealthier neighborhoods. I've met many megachurch pastors outside of the pulpit, and like them or not, most came off to me as really driven, type-A personalities -- kinda like politicians. I think the same motivations drive both types. Great careers, both of them. BTW, I don't believe the Bible mentions anything about ministry becoming a paid career. That's just human tradition that's been mixed in over time.

Rip Rokken wrote:I agree also. Organized religion has always been a problem throughout history. Today, I think megachurches are doing more to harm Bibilcal teaching than anything else. They are the Wal-Mart Supercenters of Christianity, one-stop shops designed to attract people based on material offerings like killer AV systems and built-in Starbucks. The teaching doesn't seem to be too heavy on personal accountability, and often gets flavored with motivational style material -- can't scare away the wealthy donors who pay for the multi-million $ structures, and megachurches usually crop up in the wealthier neighborhoods. I've met many megachurch pastors outside of the pulpit, and like them or not, most came off to me as really driven, type-A personalities -- kinda like politicians. I think the same motivations drive both types. Great careers, both of them. BTW, I don't believe the Bible mentions anything about ministry becoming a paid career. That's just human tradition that's been mixed in over time.

Joel Osteen comes to mind...Just be positive and everything will be OK. Unfortunately, Jesus kind of gets shoved out the back door.