MR

I was talking a friend yesterday at a cookout about how disappointed I've become at most band's efforts as they've gotten older. And that got me to thinking about bands maturing, and like someone had pointed out in another thread that bands aren't 'hungry' late in their careers. I don't like it when bands mature. If listening to Jovi's last 3 or 4 releases, and Dokken's middle efforts is maturing..then color me juvenile...cause I'm not interested. Then that got me to thinking that bands should just record a whole bunch of material in the beginning to 'bottle' that classic signature sound...to take advantage of the hunger, and the lead singer's voice....and then slowly release the extra stuff over the years...I realize most bands end up releasing a cd, or two of unreleased/demo tracks.....but that stuff is usually low quality/demo quality. And you can tell why these songs never made it on an album.

It would have been great for Jovi to record 20+ songs during the Slippery when Wet sessions, or Winger doing the same for PULL....then taking the leftovers and releasing another album.....whereas they got to capture the same tone/magic on more than 10 songs....

Bon Jovi has been very disappointing for several albums now. Many older bands' newer releases are disappointing. I don't care if it's a miss if they really tried, b/c I can usually find a few tracks I love, but if they're phoning it in just to put something out, than don't bother, for me. I will stick to the older material. Madonna was accused of that for Hard Candy, that she just pushed it out to get rid of her label obligation. But I came to love it after a bunch of spins.

Kinda freaky, but was just discussing something similar to this with someone a couple weeks ago. More on the vocal end though. We are going to catch a Nazareth show here in July and I was wondering how the lead singer is going to sound nowadays. With those raspy voices it can usually go one of two ways with age, I find. Some can go more chipmunkish like Jeff Keith (Tesla) now (love his earlier voice)........or a nice smoky soulful tone like Eric Martin or Steve Perry. LOL I just have this funny feeling the LS for Nazareth is going to have gone more the Jeff Keith route.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_809EZ6bIA

StocktontoMalone wrote:I was talking a friend yesterday at a cookout about how disappointed I've become at most band's efforts as they've gotten older. And that got me to thinking about bands maturing, and like someone had pointed out in another thread that bands aren't 'hungry' late in their careers. I don't like it when bands mature. If listening to Jovi's last 3 or 4 releases, and Dokken's middle efforts is maturing..then color me juvenile...cause I'm not interested. Then that got me to thinking that bands should just record a whole bunch of material in the beginning to 'bottle' that classic signature sound...to take advantage of the hunger, and the lead singer's voice....and then slowly release the extra stuff over the years...I realize most bands end up releasing a cd, or two of unreleased/demo tracks.....but that stuff is usually low quality/demo quality. And you can tell why these songs never made it on an album.

It would have been great for Jovi to record 20+ songs during the Slippery when Wet sessions, or Winger doing the same for PULL....then taking the leftovers and releasing another album.....whereas they got to capture the same tone/magic on more than 10 songs....

Kind of like Alias? (other than they only had the 2 albums, but Never Say Never was worth the wait for me and definitely not low/demo quality)

StocktontoMalone wrote:I was talking a friend yesterday at a cookout about how disappointed I've become at most band's efforts as they've gotten older. And that got me to thinking about bands maturing, and like someone had pointed out in another thread that bands aren't 'hungry' late in their careers. I don't like it when bands mature. If listening to Jovi's last 3 or 4 releases, and Dokken's middle efforts is maturing..then color me juvenile...cause I'm not interested. Then that got me to thinking that bands should just record a whole bunch of material in the beginning to 'bottle' that classic signature sound...to take advantage of the hunger, and the lead singer's voice....and then slowly release the extra stuff over the years...I realize most bands end up releasing a cd, or two of unreleased/demo tracks.....but that stuff is usually low quality/demo quality. And you can tell why these songs never made it on an album.

It would have been great for Jovi to record 20+ songs during the Slippery when Wet sessions, or Winger doing the same for PULL....then taking the leftovers and releasing another album.....whereas they got to capture the same tone/magic on more than 10 songs....

same old thing. Do you want an album of 10 great songs, or an album with 20 songs comprised of 10 great ones and 10 leftovers. If they had the "magic", it would be released at the time. Why keep great stuff hidden for 20 years just to make less money on it in a watered-down musical climate compared to if you released it at the time where it had a chance of selling??

Triple S wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:I was talking a friend yesterday at a cookout about how disappointed I've become at most band's efforts as they've gotten older. And that got me to thinking about bands maturing, and like someone had pointed out in another thread that bands aren't 'hungry' late in their careers. I don't like it when bands mature. If listening to Jovi's last 3 or 4 releases, and Dokken's middle efforts is maturing..then color me juvenile...cause I'm not interested. Then that got me to thinking that bands should just record a whole bunch of material in the beginning to 'bottle' that classic signature sound...to take advantage of the hunger, and the lead singer's voice....and then slowly release the extra stuff over the years...I realize most bands end up releasing a cd, or two of unreleased/demo tracks.....but that stuff is usually low quality/demo quality. And you can tell why these songs never made it on an album.

It would have been great for Jovi to record 20+ songs during the Slippery when Wet sessions, or Winger doing the same for PULL....then taking the leftovers and releasing another album.....whereas they got to capture the same tone/magic on more than 10 songs....

Kind of like Alias? (other than they only had the 2 albums, but Never Say Never was worth the wait for me and definitely not low/demo quality)

that would be akin to the Steve Perry Against the Wall album, where the label chose not to release it. Personally, I tend to side with the label on both cases, as neither album has what you would call a "hit single", and wouldn't sell for anything. The Alias album needed a few more songs written and some pulled...and the Perry one needed to start over again. IMO, both Dreamer's Road and FTLOSM were superior efforts.

kgdjpubs wrote:

Triple S wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:I was talking a friend yesterday at a cookout about how disappointed I've become at most band's efforts as they've gotten older. And that got me to thinking about bands maturing, and like someone had pointed out in another thread that bands aren't 'hungry' late in their careers. I don't like it when bands mature. If listening to Jovi's last 3 or 4 releases, and Dokken's middle efforts is maturing..then color me juvenile...cause I'm not interested. Then that got me to thinking that bands should just record a whole bunch of material in the beginning to 'bottle' that classic signature sound...to take advantage of the hunger, and the lead singer's voice....and then slowly release the extra stuff over the years...I realize most bands end up releasing a cd, or two of unreleased/demo tracks.....but that stuff is usually low quality/demo quality. And you can tell why these songs never made it on an album.

It would have been great for Jovi to record 20+ songs during the Slippery when Wet sessions, or Winger doing the same for PULL....then taking the leftovers and releasing another album.....whereas they got to capture the same tone/magic on more than 10 songs....

Kind of like Alias? (other than they only had the 2 albums, but Never Say Never was worth the wait for me and definitely not low/demo quality)

that would be akin to the Steve Perry Against the Wall album, where the label chose not to release it. Personally, I tend to side with the label on both cases, as neither album has what you would call a "hit single", and wouldn't sell for anything. The Alias album needed a few more songs written and some pulled...and the Perry one needed to start over again. IMO, both Dreamer's Road and FTLOSM were superior efforts.

Ok. A few things....First. I'm talking about voice quality, not whether a group, or artist decides to release a shit album...for all intents and purposes, SP #2 sucks ass.

Let's take D2's Cockroach as an example....album recorded in '92...as far as I know Poley is either kicked out or quits...the album is never released. D2 hires Paul Laine and divides most of that album up between the next 3 albums with Paul on vocals. Then, in 2000, the album is released as a 2 disc package with both singer's versions included. Now, you COULD debate whether the original album would have been a success, due to Nirvana & co. And also, cause I'm not quite sure about this, whether the songs were re-recorded...and thus not in the band's heydey....but coming of the success of Screw it!, I'm sure it would have been huge.....to me, a band must capitalize at their height...

StocktontoMalone wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:

Triple S wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:I was talking a friend yesterday at a cookout about how disappointed I've become at most band's efforts as they've gotten older. And that got me to thinking about bands maturing, and like someone had pointed out in another thread that bands aren't 'hungry' late in their careers. I don't like it when bands mature. If listening to Jovi's last 3 or 4 releases, and Dokken's middle efforts is maturing..then color me juvenile...cause I'm not interested. Then that got me to thinking that bands should just record a whole bunch of material in the beginning to 'bottle' that classic signature sound...to take advantage of the hunger, and the lead singer's voice....and then slowly release the extra stuff over the years...I realize most bands end up releasing a cd, or two of unreleased/demo tracks.....but that stuff is usually low quality/demo quality. And you can tell why these songs never made it on an album.

It would have been great for Jovi to record 20+ songs during the Slippery when Wet sessions, or Winger doing the same for PULL....then taking the leftovers and releasing another album.....whereas they got to capture the same tone/magic on more than 10 songs....

Kind of like Alias? (other than they only had the 2 albums, but Never Say Never was worth the wait for me and definitely not low/demo quality)

that would be akin to the Steve Perry Against the Wall album, where the label chose not to release it. Personally, I tend to side with the label on both cases, as neither album has what you would call a "hit single", and wouldn't sell for anything. The Alias album needed a few more songs written and some pulled...and the Perry one needed to start over again. IMO, both Dreamer's Road and FTLOSM were superior efforts.

Ok. A few things....First. I'm talking about voice quality, not whether a group, or artist decides to release a shit album...for all intents and purposes, SP #2 sucks ass.

Let's take D2's Cockroach as an example....album recorded in '92...as far as I know Poley is either kicked out or quits...the album is never released. D2 hires Paul Laine and divides most of that album up between the next 3 albums with Paul on vocals. Then, in 2000, the album is released as a 2 disc package with both singer's versions included. Now, you COULD debate whether the original album would have been a success, due to Nirvana & co. And also, cause I'm not quite sure about this, whether the songs were re-recorded...and thus not in the band's heydey....but coming of the success of Screw it!, I'm sure it would have been huge.....to me, a band must capitalize at their height...

for what it's worth, I was simply responding to the direct Alias reference....not the "taking the leftovers and releasing another album" bolded part that you wrote.

The Alias record WAS finished and ready to go....and it was not released at the time. Same for Cockroach, and others. I'd say this fate hit quite a few cds as Nirvana took hold, and melodic rock was out of fashion very quickly. The labels just decided to sit on the albums. Some songs would get released at some point on other records, but we are talking about shelving a completed album. This is a very different situation to taking leftover songs that either a) weren't good enough or b) didn't fit the style of the album, and releasing them as an album, such as was done for the Giant III release. The melodic rock scene is very favorable to this second scenario.