MR

This is the short spot that aired during the Super Bowl. Not bad for a half minute, and has a nice quick shot of the Red Skull, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sff8gNloRRs

I was extremely disappointed in this anti-climatic trailer. I expected to be wowed, and it just didn't happen. I'll reserve judement until we see more of it, but I didn't care for the first impression. Now the new Thor trailer... THAT looked awesome.

I like this quote from James Cameron...

"I feel there are too many superhero movies right now," Cameron reasoned. "I think Hollywood's in a bit of a rut. They've done the good ones and they're starting to get down to the second and third tier of superheroes — the guys that would not be asked to speak at the annual superhero dinner."

wanna bet that The Avengers movie will be a HUMONGOUS blockbuster when it comes out in 2012??? Possibly shatter James Cameron's box office records....

ScarabGator wrote:wanna bet that The Avengers movie will be a HUMONGOUS blockbuster when it comes out in 2012??? Possibly shatter James Cameron's box office records....

James Cameron movies break records because he includes sappy love interests in his stories...so he gets that female demographic. Action gets the guys, love gets the women...doesn't make it a good movie. IMHO, his movies actually stink. But that's just me. And I'm a whining contrarian....

S2M wrote:

ScarabGator wrote:wanna bet that The Avengers movie will be a HUMONGOUS blockbuster when it comes out in 2012??? Possibly shatter James Cameron's box office records....

James Cameron movies break records because he includes sappy love interests in his stories...so he gets that female demographic. Action gets the guys, love gets the women...doesn't make it a good movie. IMHO, his movies actually stink. But that's just me. And I'm a whining contrarian....

I see nothing wrong with that...maybe you should try reaching out to your feminine side a little more Maybe then you'd enjoy it more!

StevePerryHair wrote:

S2M wrote:

ScarabGator wrote:wanna bet that The Avengers movie will be a HUMONGOUS blockbuster when it comes out in 2012??? Possibly shatter James Cameron's box office records....

James Cameron movies break records because he includes sappy love interests in his stories...so he gets that female demographic. Action gets the guys, love gets the women...doesn't make it a good movie. IMHO, his movies actually stink. But that's just me. And I'm a whining contrarian....

I see nothing wrong with that...maybe you should try reaching out to your feminine side a little more Maybe then you'd enjoy it more!

Just concern yourself with procuring that yellow snot rag for next season....don't worry about what *I* do...

conversationpc wrote:I like this quote from James Cameron...

"I feel there are too many superhero movies right now," Cameron reasoned. "I think Hollywood's in a bit of a rut. They've done the good ones and they're starting to get down to the second and third tier of superheroes — the guys that would not be asked to speak at the annual superhero dinner."

This, from the guy who wrote an utter piece of shit called Avatar that raked in the money because people thought they were getting something new with a 3-D action movie set on another world. Never mind the patchwork script with plot devices and characters recycled from about thirty other movies (and no real effort made to conceal said aspects).

There sure are a lot of dopes out there.

verslibre wrote:

conversationpc wrote:I like this quote from James Cameron...

"I feel there are too many superhero movies right now," Cameron reasoned. "I think Hollywood's in a bit of a rut. They've done the good ones and they're starting to get down to the second and third tier of superheroes — the guys that would not be asked to speak at the annual superhero dinner."

This, from the guy who wrote an utter piece of shit called Avatar that raked in the money because people thought they were getting something new with a 3-D action movie set on another world. Never mind the patchwork script with plot devices and characters recycled from about thirty other movies (and no real effort made to conceal said aspects).

There sure are a lot of dopes out there.

Agreed. But long way to go before he reaches J.K Rowling status. I can't name one story she hasn't lifted something from....

Maybe, but at least she doesn't recycle her own shit.

I'm not into HP (books or movies), but from what I can see I'll give her that.

verslibre wrote:This, from the guy who wrote an utter piece of shit called Avatar that raked in the money because people thought they were getting something new with a 3-D action movie set on another world. Never mind the patchwork script with plot devices and characters recycled from about thirty other movies (and no real effort made to conceal said aspects).

There sure are a lot of dopes out there.

Interesting, and I wonder if that's why I never finished Avatar. I got it on DVD the day it came out, started watching it a few times, then just didn't get pulled in enough to get past maybe 30 minutes. I keep thinking I should give it another shot, but just keep not doing it.

James Cameron is one of the most egotistical, jackassity directors out there, btw. The past few blockbusters he's had, he starts shooting off his mouth to the point I regret wasting the change to see it.

Rip Rokken wrote:James Cameron is one of the most egotistical, jackassity directors out there, btw. The past few blockbusters he's had, he starts shooting off his mouth to the point I regret wasting the change to see it.

I loved how his pompous ass got owned at the Academy when his ex took the Oscar for Best Director for The Hurt Locker.

He's a dick for saying they're dipping down into the "second" and "third" tiers of superheroes. What a load. Green Lantern is one of DC's most well-known characters. Likewise Thor and Captain America for Marvel. Where are the films of which he speaks? I don't see any movies being optioned for The Creeper or She-Hulk. JamCam can go blow a leprous mule.

Can't wait for THOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hugo Weaving as the RED SKULL!

conversationpc wrote:I like this quote from James Cameron...

"I feel there are too many superhero movies right now," Cameron reasoned. "I think Hollywood's in a bit of a rut. They've done the good ones and they're starting to get down to the second and third tier of superheroes — the guys that would not be asked to speak at the annual superhero dinner."

Bingo. I've been saying this for a while.

S2M wrote:

ScarabGator wrote:wanna bet that The Avengers movie will be a HUMONGOUS blockbuster when it comes out in 2012??? Possibly shatter James Cameron's box office records....

James Cameron movies break records because he includes sappy love interests in his stories...so he gets that female demographic. Action gets the guys, love gets the women...doesn't make it a good movie. IMHO, his movies actually stink. But that's just me. And I'm a whining contrarian....

Subtle may not be his forte, but I think Cameron is one of the best storyteller's and directors out there. He is very good at getting the best out of his actors, knowing where to put a camera, and knowing what you need to tell a story effectively. I'd love to see him try his hand at directing a script he didn't write, but from a director's viewpoint, you can't deny the talent.

verslibre wrote:

Rip Rokken wrote:James Cameron is one of the most egotistical, jackassity directors out there, btw. The past few blockbusters he's had, he starts shooting off his mouth to the point I regret wasting the change to see it.

I loved how his pompous ass got owned at the Academy when his ex took the Oscar for Best Director for The Hurt Locker.

He's a dick for saying they're dipping down into the "second" and "third" tiers of superheroes. What a load. Green Lantern is one of DC's most well-known characters. Likewise Thor and Captain America for Marvel. Where are the films of which he speaks? I don't see any movies being optioned for The Creeper or She-Hulk. JamCam can go blow a leprous mule.

Outside of comic book fans that pay absolutely no attention at all to anything not seen on the screen (which is the majority of your audience to make a blockbuster film), he's right. You have your "A List" which is your Batman, Spiderman, Superman. Then, it drops down to 2nd tier. Those are the ones who have had the most success over the years, either via tv shows and/or movies. The Green Lantern and Thor aren't even close to that popularity level. Doesn't mean you can't make a very good film with them, but the name recognition isn't even in the same ballpark to those that don't follow comic books.


As far as the Oscars go, I can't say I disagree with the Hurt Locker getting best director. Avatar's main achievement was a technological breakthrough, not a directorial breakthrough. THL probably deserved it, even though I didn't particularly care for the film.

kgdjpubs wrote:Cameron is [...] very good at getting the best out of his actors, knowing where to put a camera, and knowing what you need to tell a story effectively.

What happened with Avatar, then? For all the accolades, the film blew it in all three areas, IMO. The story was ridiculous.

verslibre wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:Cameron is [...] very good at getting the best out of his actors, knowing where to put a camera, and knowing what you need to tell a story effectively.

What happened with Avatar, then? For all the accolades, the film blew it in all three areas, IMO. The story was ridiculous.

the key word is from a director's standpoint. He has a very good eye for where to put a camera so that you are oriented in the scenes (a big complaint for many directors/editors), and his transitions between scenes/locations are some of the best out there. Given the script, I don't think you were going to get any award-winning performances from the cast, but nothing really stands out as poor casting either. I think Cameron got a better performance from Sam Worthington compared to the Terminator 4 director.

Cameron's an average to above-average writer, and rarely original...but originality doesn't really affect how well something works. There is hardly anything anything original being done these days anyways. Avatar is simply what you see. It's maybe the biggest breakthrough in special effects since the dinosaurs of the original Jurassic Park, and an ok script that has been done several times before, elevated slightly by one of the better directors out there. Even with the same visual effects team, I'd hate to think what Avatar would have turned out with some of the other directors in Hollywood behind the camera.

kgdjpubs wrote:Outside of comic book fans that pay absolutely no attention at all to anything not seen on the screen (which is the majority of your audience to make a blockbuster film), he's right. You have your "A List" which is your Batman, Spiderman, Superman. Then, it drops down to 2nd tier. Those are the ones who have had the most success over the years, either via tv shows and/or movies.

Correction: those are the heroes Hollywood wants to keep rebooting/retconning because the idiots don't want to take any chances. Same reason so many Hollywood remakes of foreign movies happen, i.e. they have to dumb them down for the masses of asses with one-liners and McG/Michael Bay-type directing — borrrrrriiiing. Nobody wants to see another fucking Superman movie, believe me. But now that Christopher Nolan wants to re-tool Supes, they're chomping at the bit considering how his Bat-films are the best hero movies ever.

And while I'm personally sick of mutants and X-shit, the X-Men characters are considered first tier characters, too. They've been immensely popular in the comics for four decades, and the original team goes back to the '60s, right along with Spider-Man and Iron Man.

There are a lot of great characters. Hollywood needs to quit reaching for the "dumb-down" lever is all. James Cameron is the most overrated schmuck director ever.

kgdjpubs wrote:

verslibre wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:Cameron is [...] very good at getting the best out of his actors, knowing where to put a camera, and knowing what you need to tell a story effectively.

What happened with Avatar, then? For all the accolades, the film blew it in all three areas, IMO. The story was ridiculous.

the key word is from a director's standpoint. He has a very good eye for where to put a camera so that you are oriented in the scenes (a big complaint for many directors/editors), and his transitions between scenes/locations are some of the best out there. Given the script, I don't think you were going to get any award-winning performances from the cast, but nothing really stands out as poor casting either. I think Cameron got a better performance from Sam Worthington compared to the Terminator 4 director.

And like I said...what happened? Some of the shots in Avatar were so "stock" I kept waiting to be wowed out of my seat. As far as the cast, while everybody's solid, they were quite under-utilized. The only guy who gave a legitimately memorable performance was Thomas Lang. Michelle Rodriguez totally phoned it in, and I like her a lot. It's like Luca$ and his cast – Natalie Portman is great, and Ewan McGregor has cut his teeth in various roles, but both (especially Ewan) seemed to phone in their performances in the Star Bores prequels. Sam Jackson? Fergeddit. I think Luca$ is a "one-take pony" and for Avatar, James was, too. He only gave a shit about the FX.

Even with the same visual effects team, I'd hate to think what Avatar would have turned out with some of the other directors in Hollywood behind the camera.

I'm sure a guy like Guillermo Del Toro would've improved that pile, but I'd hate to see him waste his time.

verslibre wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:Outside of comic book fans that pay absolutely no attention at all to anything not seen on the screen (which is the majority of your audience to make a blockbuster film), he's right. You have your "A List" which is your Batman, Spiderman, Superman. Then, it drops down to 2nd tier. Those are the ones who have had the most success over the years, either via tv shows and/or movies.

Correction: those are the heroes Hollywood wants to keep rebooting/retconning because the idiots don't want to take any chances. Same reason so many Hollywood remakes of foreign movies happen, i.e. they have to dumb them down for the masses of asses with one-liners and McG/Michael Bay-type directing — borrrrrriiiing. Nobody wants to see another fucking Superman movie, believe me. But now that Christopher Nolan wants to re-tool Supes, they're chomping at the bit considering how his Bat-films are the best hero movies ever.

...probably because Christopher Nolan is well above average on Hollywood directors. He and his brother are a pretty darn decent writing team that have done a good job on several films--and Inception is one of the few truly original films that has come out of Hollywood in several years. Giving credit where credit is due, there have been precious few superhero films with good scripts and directors. As long as they keep trying to produce superhero films on the cheap end and not attract any of the real writing and directing talent out there, you will still end up with some very forgettable films that do absolutely nothing for the genre's longetivity.

Michael Bay isn't all that bad, but he rarely has a decent script to work with. Give a lot of credit to Sean Connery for still being able to pull off the Bond-by-any-other-name character, but The Rock was a pretty decent film.

verslibre wrote:And while I'm personally sick of mutants and X-shit, the X-Men characters are considered first tier characters, too. They've been immensely popular in the comics for four decades, and the original team goes back to the '60s, right along with Spider-Man and Iron Man.

X-Men is close, mainly due to the first two films--which, unlike many, were at least competently done.

verslibre wrote:There are a lot of great characters. Hollywood needs to quit reaching for the "dumb-down" lever is all.

That's a Hollywood problem that extends well beyond the superhero genre. The fact that Inception was a hit despite the very convoluted plot is proof enough that a smart script can succeed critically and commercially. I've come to believe that the filmmaking industry is like every other job market out there---some are totally clueless, a lot are simply average, and there are a few that are just really good at what they do. Nolan is in the last category.

Yep, with Memento being his best....

and I've come to the conclusion that hollywood is going to make every Philip K. Dick story into a film. They've already done Minority Report, Total Recall, Next, Adjustment Bureau, Blade Runner, Imposter, Paycheck...etc. And they've already slated Total Recall for reboot in 2012 with Colin Farrell playing Doug Quaid/Hauser....

verslibre wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:

verslibre wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:Cameron is [...] very good at getting the best out of his actors, knowing where to put a camera, and knowing what you need to tell a story effectively.

What happened with Avatar, then? For all the accolades, the film blew it in all three areas, IMO. The story was ridiculous.

the key word is from a director's standpoint. He has a very good eye for where to put a camera so that you are oriented in the scenes (a big complaint for many directors/editors), and his transitions between scenes/locations are some of the best out there. Given the script, I don't think you were going to get any award-winning performances from the cast, but nothing really stands out as poor casting either. I think Cameron got a better performance from Sam Worthington compared to the Terminator 4 director.

And like I said...what happened? Some of the shots in Avatar were so "stock" I kept waiting to be wowed out of my seat. As far as the cast, while everybody's solid, they were quite under-utilized. The only guy who gave a legitimately memorable performance was Thomas Lang. Michelle Rodriguez totally phoned it in, and I like her a lot.

I think part of the issue is that the script for Avatar is probably his 2nd weakest script overall--True Lies being #1. The first flying scene was close to perfectly done, and the rest was simply solid within the boundaries of the script. There was an serious emphasis in effects over script though, although not to the point of....

verslibre wrote:It's like Luca$ and his cast – Natalie Portman is great, and Ewan McGregor has cut his teeth in various roles, but both (especially Ewan) seemed to phone in their performaces in the Star Bores prequels. Sam Jackson? Fergeddit. I think Luca$ is a "one-take pony" and for Avatar, James was, too. He only gave a shit about the FX.

Oh, totally agree here. George Lucas had some good ideas, but is simply pedestrian as a director and writer. Great special effects, but the story and directing were nothing at all to write home about. I still can't figure out why he didn't let someone else direct the films. Might have been able to at least salvage the stories.

You may be onto something about Cameron and FX versus story, but I still think Cameron has more talent than a lot of Hollywood directors. I just wish he had the passion that he did in the late 80s/early 90s, but I guess he has enough money not to worry about it.

verslibre wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:Even with the same visual effects team, I'd hate to think what Avatar would have turned out with some of the other directors in Hollywood behind the camera.

I'm sure a guy like Guillermo Del Toro would've improved that pile, but I'd hate to see him waste his time.

Considering what Del Toro did to Blade 2, I'm sure he would do well on most movies. Just wish he had gotten a chance to direct Blade 1--which was a very blase directing job indeed. Even though it didn't happen and eventually worked out for the better, signing him onto the Lord of the Rings prequel was a smart move.

On the other hand, think of Brett Ratner or Zack Snyder doing Avatar......yikes!

kgdjpubs wrote:

verslibre wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:Even with the same visual effects team, I'd hate to think what Avatar would have turned out with some of the other directors in Hollywood behind the camera.

I'm sure a guy like Guillermo Del Toro would've improved that pile, but I'd hate to see him waste his time.

Considering what Del Toro did to Blade 2, I'm sure he would do well on most movies. Just wish he had gotten a chance to direct Blade 1--which was a very blase directing job indeed. Even though it didn't happen and eventually worked out for the better, signing him onto the Lord of the Rings prequel was a smart move.

On the other hand, think of Brett Ratner or Zack Snyder doing Avatar......yikes!

Those guys get a lot of shit, but I like the first two Rush Hour movies and Zack's Dawn Of The Dead remake. And Bryan Singer is nothing special. The first X-Men movie sucked. It seriously sucked. If Hugh Jackman and Famke Janssen and Ian "riding my Gandalf popularity's coattails" McKellan weren't in it, the movie would've been an out-and-out (no pun intended) flop.

Btw, Blade 2's script was horrible, and Del Toro was not able to save it. The first movie is much better, regardless of directorship.

S2M wrote:Yep, with Memento being his best....

and I've come to the conclusion that hollywood is going to make every Philip K. Dick story into a film. They've already done Minority Report, Total Recall, Next, Adjustment Bureau, Blade Runner, Imposter, Paycheck...etc. And they've already slated Total Recall for reboot in 2012 with Colin Farrell playing Doug Quaid/Hauser....

Yep. Poor PKD. If he had any idea...

That said, I'd love to see a few of Harlan Ellison's works adapted, but Hollyweird's afraid of him. His buddy J. Michael Straczynski did just option a script for Repent, Harlequin! Said The TickTockMan.

S2M wrote:Yep, with Memento being his best....

I never got Memento, and found it very cold and clinical. Done well, but it leaves me cold. For the first big film he did, it's still impressive.

S2M wrote:and I've come to the conclusion that hollywood is going to make every Philip K. Dick story into a film. They've already done Minority Report, Total Recall, Next, Adjustment Bureau, Blade Runner, Imposter, Paycheck...etc.

probably, but at least he has had some original ideas.

Minority Report....done well, although I find it a bit cold and emotionless when it should be the exact opposite.
Total Recall...pretty much Paul Verhoeven to the extreme. Thoroughly impossible, but somehow it works.
Next...heard a lot of people hate it, but I at least thought it was fun to watch. Could have gone a lot further with the material, but not bad.
Adjustment Bureau....falls apart a bit at the end, but well done, and Terence Stamp is a wonderful actor. The previews don't even come close to capturing the tone/plot of the movie. It's certainly not what they portray it to be.
Blade Runner....never got it. Don't know what else to say
Imposter....never saw it. Any good?
Paycheck.....loads of talent, but not even John Woo could save it. Missing the element of suspense. The tone is just off.

S2M wrote:And they've already slated Total Recall for reboot in 2012 with Colin Farrell playing Doug Quaid/Hauser....

Who's directing? Colin Farrell is talented enough to pull the role off if they do a slightly less "loopy" telling of the story. Question is if the script and directing are up to par. Would be a different film than the original, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Len Wiseman is directing the Total Recall reboot....he directed 2 of the Underworlds, and Live Free or Die Hard...

verslibre wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:

verslibre wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:Even with the same visual effects team, I'd hate to think what Avatar would have turned out with some of the other directors in Hollywood behind the camera.

I'm sure a guy like Guillermo Del Toro would've improved that pile, but I'd hate to see him waste his time.

Considering what Del Toro did to Blade 2, I'm sure he would do well on most movies. Just wish he had gotten a chance to direct Blade 1--which was a very blase directing job indeed. Even though it didn't happen and eventually worked out for the better, signing him onto the Lord of the Rings prequel was a smart move.

On the other hand, think of Brett Ratner or Zack Snyder doing Avatar......yikes!

Those guys get a lot of shit, but I like the first two Rush Hour movies

Ratner is in his element in the lightweight action/comedy film. I still think Shanghai Noon was better than any of the Rush Hour films, but they were watchable because of the Chris Tucker/Jackie Chan chemistry. I don't think you'll ever get a great film from Ratner however, but he has learned how to play the system.

verslibre wrote:and Zack's Dawn Of The Dead remake.

Haven't seen that, but both 300 and Watchmen were thoroughly indulgent movies that came across as a kid in a candy shop without anyone telling where to stop. He has a good eye for visuals, but couldn't find one ounce of emotion in either movie.

verslibre wrote:And Bryan Singer is nothing special. The first X-Men movie sucked. It seriously sucked. If Hugh Jackman and Famke Janssen and Ian "riding my Gandalf popularity's coattails" McKellan weren't in it, the movie would've been an out-and-out (no pun intended) flop.

Been a while since I've seen either, although I remember #2 being the better of the films. I think you're probably right that the cast made the film more than the screenplay.

Singer seems to do pretty good at getting good performances out of his actors. Barring the Superman disaster, most of his films seem to be fairly solid. Usual Suspects was great, XMen survived on the cast, and Valkyrie was solid if not spectacular--but with one of the best casts in recent history. Would have loved to have seen a Spielberg or maybe a Scorsese take on Valkyrie.

verslibre wrote:Btw, Blade 2's script was horrible, and Del Toro was not able to save it. The first movie is much better, regardless of directorship.

I remember liking #2 better, but it's been a long time since I've seen either film. Del Toro's talent as a director was very apparent however.

S2M wrote:Len Wiseman is directing the Total Recall reboot....he directed 2 of the Underworlds, and Live Free or Die Hard...

hmmm..... Could go either way. Could be much worse. Film will look good, but the question is if the script will hold up. Wonder if there is a role for Kate Beckinsale in a leather suit in the film???