MR

He may never drum again. Sad day. For those of you that never heard Phil drumming in the 70's when Peter Gabriel was singing for Genesis you may not know that he is one of the best right up there with any of the greats dead or alive. His drumming during Genesis's more progressive era is untouchable. As a drummer of 27 years now I can tell you that Neal Peart ripped off Phil big time in many ways. You would have to be a drummer and a close listener to pick it up but any way. Here is the article. At least the guy has the balls to be honest that he is done... Cough... Cough.. Poor guy cant even hold a spoon from the damage. According to Phil the damage was caused by the way he sat at the drum kit all those years. Hunched over too far.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/musi ... 71b0d4%2C0

Here is phil rocking out some Jazz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xklB7dl ... re=related

I see your jazz rockin Phil and raise you a jazz rockin Smitty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQJ8sOnQ ... re=related


BTW, Phil Collins is the MAN. Best concert i ever saw of his was his seriously hits live show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmiYrjyv3c8

Liquid_Drummer wrote:He may never drum again. Sad day. For those of you that never heard Phil drumming in the 70's when Peter Gabriel was singing for Genesis you may not know that he is one of the best right up there with any of the greats dead or alive. His drumming during Genesis's more progressive era is untouchable. As a drummer of 27 years now I can tell you that Neal Peart ripped off Phil big time in many ways. You would have to be a drummer and a close listener to pick it up but any way. Here is the article. At least the guy has the balls to be honest that he is done... Cough... Cough.. Poor guy cant even hold a spoon from the damage. According to Phil the damage was caused by the way he sat at the drum kit all those years. Hunched over too far.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/musi ... 71b0d4%2C0

Here is phil rocking out some Jazz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xklB7dl ... re=related

I love Phil, and Neil. As for ripping Phil off? I'm not buying the uproar. Everybody borrows from everybody. Neil studied with Gruber - did he rip Freddy off too? "Oh my god, Collins is using the microphone - he must be ripping off Gabriel!"

An besides, you can't beat this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHkucr1jJpQ&feature=related

Perhaps borrow would have been a better way to put it. From my own drumming experience Neil and Phil have their own unique drumming voices if you will. Fact is though that Phil blows Neil's doors of in feel and technical ability. Neil used to be my favorite drummer when I was coming up but fell by the way side when he got with Freddy. I do not like what happened with his drumming after Freddy. He did not groove any better ! He just ended up playing less. His drum solo's rely on too much flash etc IMHO. Smitty can use a single high hat and stun a a crowd. Ive been in the same room when he did just that with Vital Information about 3-4 years ago. I was 10 feet from him.


Neil was awesome no doubt but overrated for his technical skills compared to many other drummers. Just my opinion. He was in the right band at the right time and ya gotta give him props for all the lyrics. Not many drummers can spell their own names much less write good books and lyrics for 40 years ! Hehe.

Liquid_Drummer wrote:Poor guy cant even hold a spoon from the damage. According to Phil the damage was caused by the way he sat at the drum kit all those years. Hunched over too far.

It's not from hunching over - it's from holding a hard wooden stick and beating on drums and hard metal cymbals for 30 years. This is why I don't play drums in a band anymore. I got tired of having numb hands and wrists after playing 45 songs a night on the drums.

Bummer....he's given the world some great music.

I'm not a drummer, have never drummed - so i may all wet. However, being a fan of Peart since 1979, I've learned a few things just being a fan. First, the job of a drummer is to keep time. Neil does that. Anything after that is musical preference. I'm not going to get into a stylistic debate, because I'd lose. What you are left with is preference. I prefered Neil up through '96s T4E. After that I think he regressed exponentially. Much like EVH did after he picked up the keyboards. Eddie NEVER progressed, and never grew. This isn't even debatable. Same with Neil's playing. Also, his drum solos are the same effin drum solos since 'A Show of Hands'...he just added the swing thing in the past 10 or so years I think - while also naming them differently for each tour: Der Trommler, O'Baterista....etc...I also believe Neil was ahead of his time. Arguably the best rock drummer of all time. He just never varied, or progressed. IMHO.

Here's a good one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGk13o5X ... re=related

Eric Clapton, Nathan East and Phil Collins on this one.

Liquid_Drummer wrote:As a drummer of 27 years now I can tell you that Neal Peart ripped off Phil big time in many ways. You would have to be a drummer and a close listener to pick it up but any way.

Oh, bullshit. Neil's main influences early on were Keith Moon and Carl Palmer. Later he noticed Stewart Copeland. Everybody picks up something from everybody. Drums and percussion are capable of only so many sounds and pitches unless you get into electronics. What's next, Bun E. Carlos ripped off Ringo Starr?

S2M wrote:I also believe Neil was ahead of his time. Arguably the best rock drummer of all time. He just never varied, or progressed. IMHO.

That is completely unschooled. How many drummers advance that far, then go back to basics to learn a new way to play? For time's sake I'm just pasting the relevant details from his WikiPedia article...

"Peart had long played just matched grip; however, he decided to shift to traditional as part of his style reinvention in the mid-1990s under the tutelage of jazz coach Freddie Gruber. Shortly after the filming of his first instructional DVD A Work in Progress, Peart went back to using primarily matched, though he does switch back to traditional when playing songs from Test for Echo and during moments when he feels traditional grip is more appropriate, such as the rudimentary snare drum section of his drum solo. He discusses the details of these switches in the DVD Anatomy of a Drum Solo."

then...

"In 1992, Peart was invited by Buddy Rich's daughter, Cathy Rich, to play at the Buddy Rich Memorial Scholarship Concert in New York City. Though initially intimidated by the request, Peart accepted the offer and performed for the first time with the Buddy Rich Big Band. Feeling that his performance left much to be desired, Peart decided to produce and play on two Buddy Rich tribute albums titled Burning for Buddy: A Tribute to the Music of Buddy Rich in 1994 and 1997 in order to regain his aplomb.

Peart wrote on his personal website that "And yet...I still had a nagging feeling that when I played in that style, I was just imitating it, not really feeling it properly. As the old Duke Ellington standard goes, 'It don’t mean a thing, if it ain’t got that swing', and I didn’t think I did."

In early 2007, Peart and Cathy Rich again began discussing yet another Buddy tribute concert. In response, Peart decided to once again augment his swing style with formal drum lessons, this time under the tutelage of another pupil of Freddie Gruber, Peter Erskine, himself an instructor of drummer Steve Gadd. On October 18, 2008, Peart once again performed at the Buddy Rich Memorial Concert at New York's Hammerstein Ballroom."

I don't think many musicians really rip others off, intentionally. People are influenced by things they hear that they like, and as such, adopt them into their style. It's the same with Steve Perry and Sam Cooke. There are so many Sam Cooke influences in Perry's vocalizations, but I wouldn't call it ripping off Cooke. It's someone taking what they hear, putting their own spin on it, and elaborating on it.

I think it should be considered a huge form of flattery for any musician to hear their style in someone else. How can you not take it as an enormous compliment?

This thread touches on so many drummers and musicians alike that I find utterly incredible. Thanks for posting this LD. Great stuff.

Rick wrote:I don't think many musicians really rip others off, intentionally. People are influenced by things they hear that they like, and as such, adopt them into their style. It's the same with Steve Perry and Sam Cooke. There are so many Sam Cooke influences in Perry's vocalizations, but I wouldn't call it ripping off Cooke. It's someone taking what they hear, putting their own spin on it, and elaborating on it.

I think it should be considered a huge form of flattery for any musician to hear their style in someone else. How can you not take it as an enormous compliment?

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

Liquid_Drummer wrote:He may never drum again. Sad day. For those of you that never heard Phil drumming in the 70's when Peter Gabriel was singing for Genesis you may not know that he is one of the best right up there with any of the greats dead or alive. His drumming during Genesis's more progressive era is untouchable. As a drummer of 27 years now I can tell you that Neal Peart ripped off Phil big time in many ways. You would have to be a drummer and a close listener to pick it up but any way. Here is the article. At least the guy has the balls to be honest that he is done... Cough... Cough.. Poor guy cant even hold a spoon from the damage. According to Phil the damage was caused by the way he sat at the drum kit all those years. Hunched over too far.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/musi ... 71b0d4%2C0

Here is phil rocking out some Jazz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xklB7dl ... re=related

very sad. Good songwriter, very distinctive singer, and--at least after his solo career took off--a very underrated drummer. Always put on a very good show, even though he for some reason refused to come within 10hrs of here on his later solo tours. Glad I got to see him live at least once.

Liquid_Drummer wrote: For those of you that never heard Phil drumming in the 70's when Peter Gabriel was singing for Genesis you may not know that he is one of the best right up there with any of the greats dead or alive. His drumming during Genesis's more progressive era is untouchable.

As a fan and drummer since I first picked up the sticks as a ten-year-old over four decades ago, and as a regularly-published music scribe here in SoCal from '86 through '06, I agree completely, LD.

Like many, I also include the first two post-Gabriel Genesis LPs in that "progressive" era of the band. Dollar for dollar, I think Phil's playing on those two stands up against the earlier stuff quite well. From the brutal, heavy simplicity of "Squonk" and the frenetic edginess of "Los Endos" (from A Trick of the Tail) to the driving, jazz-inflected urgency of "Wot Gorilla" and "Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers..." (from Wind and Wuthering), Phil's technical skills AND his ear for the "musical" side of percussion are both undeniable.

Heck, even "Down and Out" and "The Lady Lies" - two of the best tracks from their first post-Steve Hackett album, And Then There Were Three - could be considered part of the band's prog-rock canon.

I'm blessed to have seen Phil play live many, many times during my life, and I wish him well.

;^)

I know opinions will vary, but I don't consider the Gabriel-era progressive at all. Peter was doing his best Bowie. Genesis, to me, was art-rock. I consider Trick the first 'progressive' album, and my overall favorite.

S2M wrote:I know opinions will vary, but I don't consider the Gabriel-era progressive at all. Peter was doing his best Bowie. Genesis, to me, was art-rock. I consider Trick the first 'progressive' album, and my overall favorite.

As a life-long Genesis fan, Trick remains my favorite as well. It's hard to pick just one to call their "best," but if I was to be allowed only one to listen to from this point forward, it would have to be that one.

;^)

...And Then There Were Three is prog. The naysayers can eff themselves. I agree that with the next album, Duke, they went more mainstream. But ATTWT is the final chapter of Genesis's prog era.

Voyager wrote:

Liquid_Drummer wrote:Poor guy cant even hold a spoon from the damage. According to Phil the damage was caused by the way he sat at the drum kit all those years. Hunched over too far.

It's not from hunching over - it's from holding a hard wooden stick and beating on drums and hard metal cymbals for 30 years. This is why I don't play drums in a band anymore. I got tired of having numb hands and wrists after playing 45 songs a night on the drums.

Voyager, your avatar creeps me out dude. I'm never going to bumfunk Egypt, wherever the fuck that is!

johnroxx wrote:

S2M wrote:I know opinions will vary, but I don't consider the Gabriel-era progressive at all. Peter was doing his best Bowie. Genesis, to me, was art-rock. I consider Trick the first 'progressive' album, and my overall favorite.

As a life-long Genesis fan, Trick remains my favorite as well. It's hard to pick just one to call their "best," but if I was to be allowed only one to listen to from this point forward, it would have to be that one.

;^)

'Trick' is also my favorite Genesis album.

Sad to see a legend retire. Genesis & Phil Collins solo were the first groups I ever listened to, essentially my doorway to listening to music in general.

Wow, I read a while ago he was giving up drumming, but didn't know he'd reached the point of leaving music completely. Thought he was going to keep singing. Didn't know he had hearing problems too now like the article mentions. Sad to read how he feels he is seen among fans too. I think he's one of a kind, will be a great loss to music.

Wow, what a loss to the music world. One of my favorites by far! I wonder if there will ever be talent out there that can compare to the greats of the 70's, 80's and 90's..

No Surprize wrote:Voyager, your avatar creeps me out dude.

Good - that's the reaction I was hoping for.

No Surprize wrote:I'm never going to bumfunk Egypt, wherever the fuck that is!

It's right next to Bumfuck Egypt. Some of the residents didn't like having a curse word in their city's name, so they started a new city next to it.

Voyager wrote:

No Surprize wrote:Voyager, your avatar creeps me out dude.

Good - that's the reaction I was hoping for.

No Surprize wrote:I'm never going to bumfunk Egypt, wherever the fuck that is!

It's right next to Bumfuck Egypt. Some of the residents didn't like having a curse word in their city's name, so they started a new city next to it.

See what I mean. Had me so fucking creeped out that I spelled it's sister city instead! That fucking exorcist shit still sends a chill down my spine whenever I think of it!

Found this article on FB today interesting (I have him listed on my music "likes" so that's how it showed up)

http://www.philcollins.com/news/breakin ... ssage-phil

Melissa wrote:Found this article on FB today interesting (I have him listed on my music "likes" so that's how it showed up)

http://www.philcollins.com/news/breakin ... ssage-phil

Thanks for posting Melissa..

I would've liked to have seen him atleast once. Bummer.

Glad to hear he is in good spirits though.

ebake02 wrote:Here's a good one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGk13o5X ... re=related

Eric Clapton, Nathan East and Phil Collins on this one.

That was an amazing performance in every way. Killer vocals from Phil as well.

S2M wrote:I know opinions will vary, but I don't consider the Gabriel-era progressive at all. Peter was doing his best Bowie. Genesis, to me, was art-rock. I consider Trick the first 'progressive' album, and my overall favorite.

I love trick of the tail as well but for me Foxtrot owns all of them. Suppers Ready and watcher of the skies !! Man. Those two knock me out.

Liquid_Drummer wrote:

S2M wrote:I know opinions will vary, but I don't consider the Gabriel-era progressive at all. Peter was doing his best Bowie. Genesis, to me, was art-rock. I consider Trick the first 'progressive' album, and my overall favorite.

I love trick of the tail as well but for me Foxtrot owns all of them. Suppers Ready and watcher of the skies !! Man. Those two knock me out.

Meh....never liked Gabriel on vocals. Entangled, Squonk, Ripples, and Dance on a Volcano kick my ass everytime....

Updated statement from Phil . . .


A personal message from Phil Collins:

Greetings to all, I've decided to write this in response to the articles that surfaced last weekend regarding my retirement. Why they were printed at all is a mystery, as I haven't spoken to anybody in the press for a few months.

However, many of the articles printed over the last few months have en...ded up painting a picture of me that is more than a little distorted. Therefore, I would like to add my comments and try to explain again my reasons for calling it a day.


1/ I'm not stopping because of dodgy reviews or bad treatment in the press.

2/ I'm not stopping because I don't feel loved, I know I still have a very large fanbase that loves what I do. Thank you.

3/ I'm not stopping because I don't fit in, this was proved with "Going Back" reaching No 1 in the UK, and doing incredibly well worldwide.

4/ I'm not stopping so I can dive full time into my interest for the Alamo.

I am stopping so I can be a full time father to my two young sons on a daily basis.

Some of the things mentioned above have been said by me in various interviews, but said as asides with a smile on my face and in passing. They were not meant to be "headlines", they were small parts of a conversation. This clearly doesn't come over in print and I should know better.

However, the result is that I have ended up sounding like a tormented weirdo who thinks he was at the Alamo in another life, who feels very sorry for himself, and is retiring hurt because of the bad press over the years.

None of this is true.

Thanks for all your messages on the Forum regarding this stuff, it means a lot that you care. But there's no need for the straitjacket !


PC x