MR

This crazy fucker is probably reason number one why many don't think every whack job in America should be running around with a firearm. Not the guy to have out in front of this debate! What a fucking wing nut!

http://www.upworthy.com/angry-gun-advoc ... w-ever?g=2

Yeah, great job by Piers Morgan and CNN because the ONLY reason they had Alex Jones on this show was to associate him with real gun owners and conservatives. Alex Jones is NOT a conservative and, furthermore, isn't an honest person at all. He's the guy all the nutty conspiracy theorists flock to for their daily drink of kool aid.

Enigma869 wrote:This crazy fucker is probably reason number one why many don't think every whack job in America should be running around with a firearm. Not the guy to have out in front of this debate! What a fucking wing nut!

http://www.upworthy.com/angry-gun-advoc ... w-ever?g=2

The dude is always nutty, but I also think most of his points (in this interview anyway) are pretty valid. He just comes across crazy.

I think what's going on is that Americans have a right in the constitution, and just like anything else rights take responsibility. The vast - by far and away - majority of gun owners are responsible. So who is Pierce to tell us we are wrong? I mean, who made him king? And who is Gawker to call law abiding citizens assholes just because they own a gun? I know lots of people that own guns, and some of them are assholes, but not because they own a gun.

I think movies and whatever have portrayed gun owners as criminals, hicks, bad dudes, whatever. Most of them are just normal people that you would never know owned guns.

The anti-gun movement has decided on a plan of shame. They want to make it seem like you are out of step if you own a gun. Well, did you see that gun permit map in that one county in NY? I'd say many normal, average citizens have firearms.

And I'll say again - they ought to fix the crime problem first before they try and take away people's protection.

Some perspective on the CT shooting... on the day those 20 kids were murdered by that mentally deranged lunatic, 55 Million kids went to school.


In a country of 330 Million, there are 100 million gun owners in the USA, and over 300 million guns..

There is not going to be a gun debate.. because there's no way the government is going to be able to confiscate that many weapons.

slucero wrote:There is not going to be a gun debate.. because there's no way the government is going to be able to confiscate that many weapons.

I'm afraid that they'll certainly try. However, they'll create a civil war in the process if they do.

The government is NOT going to try to take away ALL guns. That is a ridiculous argument that gun activists make that has never been brought to the table.

jaxmanjoe wrote:The government is NOT going to try to take away ALL guns. That is a ridiculous argument that gun activists make that has never been brought to the table.

Australia certainly saw a large chunk of theirs arbitrarily outlawed and de facto confiscated.

Archetype wrote:

jaxmanjoe wrote:The government is NOT going to try to take away ALL guns. That is a ridiculous argument that gun activists make that has never been brought to the table.

Australia certainly saw a large chunk of theirs arbitrarily outlawed and de facto confiscated.

There aren't anywhere near as many people in Oz as there are here. Shit, there way more people in California.

jaxmanjoe wrote:The government is NOT going to try to take away ALL guns. That is a ridiculous argument that gun activists make that has never been brought to the table.

That said, I can point you to many comments that have been made where our current leaders, the ones making the rules, have said they believe there should be no guns. How many of those folks will it take before it happens? So I don't think it is silly to be concerned about this.

What is step 1 of confiscation? National registry. And I bet you within the next couple weeks when the president proposes his plan, a national registry will will be near the top of the list.

What's wrong with a national registry, you ask? Well let's see. Gawker just published the list of all gun owner's names in New York and proudly called them assholes. The Journal just published the names AND ADDRESSES of permit holders in two New Jersey counties, as if there was some reason for it. Our current Attorney General, Eric Holder, has said that gun owners should be shamed and that the American people should be BRAINWASHED (his word) into believing that gun ownership is as bad or worse than being a smoker (insinuating that smokers are horrible people too).

So why the hell would anyone want to sign up on a list that their own government views as made up of shameful, disgusting, horrible people that live in the shadows of life?

You can't have it both ways. You can't wrongfully blame big tragedies on guns, say gun owners should be ashamed, etc. and then expect people to want to sign up on your stupid (and quite meaningless) list.

I remind you, none of this - ZERO - would have prevented any of these tragedies. That's the sad part. Focusing on that kid's mental health would have.

All that said, I think gun owners should be trained. Background checks should be performed for criminal and mental issues. I could care less bout magazine size, so ban all the big ones for all I care. Other than that, stop making these lists public because it is nobody's business who owns what and stop making lists in the first place. It's useless. It helps no one.

jaxmanjoe wrote:The government is NOT going to try to take away ALL guns. That is a ridiculous argument that gun activists make that has never been brought to the table.

You're correct. Secret Service agents who protect the president (as well as his children) will have them. I agree 100% to keeping them out of the hands of convicted felons. As well as anyone associated with a domestic or hate crime. Also, anyone not mentally fit (and by that, I mean mentally ill or retarded). Other than that... any law abiding citizen SHOULD own a weapon. Not just to hunt and protect themselves, but to protect those around them.

Having the government involved in making decisions as to who can or cannot own weapons is preposterous and dangerous! They can't even run social security, the post office, or anything else they get involved with.

Son Eric is substitute teaching in Denver public schools. One of the classes was covering gun control legislation today. A girl in the class was a survivor from the Aurora theater shooting. Eric said she was much more interested in talking about access to mental health care than gun control.

• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.
  
• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
  
• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
  
• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
  
• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
  
• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
  
• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
  
• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
  
• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
  
• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
  
• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
  
• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
  
• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
  
• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
  
• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
  
• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
  
• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
  
• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
  
• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
  
• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
  
• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
  
• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
  
• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
  
• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
  
• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
  
• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")
  
• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
  (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)
  
• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.
  
• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
  
• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
  
• Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
  
• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
  
• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."
  
• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
  
• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
  
• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
  Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
  
• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
  New York high school.
  
• Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....
  
• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az
  
• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado
  
• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or
  
• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
  
  
  Roberts is the only one that apparently wasn't on drugs of some kind.
  

How's about we just take kids off psychotropic drugs for a start?

Aw, come on you guys...can't you at least agree that if you need a license to drive, you should at least be required to have a license to own a firearm?

The media won't show people running out onto the field during sporting events so others won't be encouraged to be copycats and do the same thing. However, when someone shoots up a school they get their picture plastered all over the news for months. That is a bigger problem than LEGAL gun ownership.

Jeremey wrote:Aw, come on you guys...can't you at least agree that if you need a license to drive, you should at least be required to have a license to own a firearm?

I don't think one person here or anywhere else suggests that you should not be licensed to own a gun. I guess there are loophole laws and i have no problem with those being closed. I think everyone should have a background check as well. No one is arguing that, I think.

A national list of who owns what? That's just silly. And it again - it doesn't solve a single one of these crimes. Not one.

My opinion on the gun debate is that I feel there should be some more strict laws for obtaining a weapon, but I don't feel the laws should be over the top. Let's be honest if a person loses it and decides "today is the day I'm going to take out a large group of people and possibly even myself" chances are that person is going to find a way to do it whether that person has a gun or not. The incident in Conn. is a sad situation, but it unfortunetly happens. I mean just in the last decade alone we've seen death by charcoal grill (Tom Scholz), a former WWE wrestler lose it and kill his family and hang himself, and Junior Seau's deal. Death happens and when the person who is in control loses control death will happen by gun or however the person feels like.

Another thing I've noticed with the gun debate is that some people are putting some of the blame on the violence in video game and movies. That is complete and total bullshit. It isn't the video games or the movies fault for these people flipping out and losing it. I am a video game fan. I play Call of Duty and Halo. The amount of children that play those games is incredible. That is not the fault of the video game companies that is the fault of the parents/guardians who buy their child or allow their children to play those violent video games. The parents should see that their child is play COD and that the video game box has a rating of "M" on it and they shouldn't be allowing their children to play the game because the "M" rating is for people over the age of 18. The parents of the child should also be telling their children and putting this important thing through the childs mind that "What you see in video games and movies are not real. If you try this in real life you will hurt someone and possibly kill someone or yourself."

Memorex wrote:

Jeremey wrote:Aw, come on you guys...can't you at least agree that if you need a license to drive, you should at least be required to have a license to own a firearm?

I don't think one person here or anywhere else suggests that you should not be licensed to own a gun. I guess there are loophole laws and i have no problem with those being closed. I think everyone should have a background check as well. No one is arguing that, I think.

A national list of who owns what? That's just silly. And it again - it doesn't solve a single one of these crimes. Not one.

I agree with you on the registry - that's crazy...I guess what I meant is that shouldn't you have to take a qualifying course like you do to get a drivers license etc. Like you said in your post...trained...so I do agree with you on all of your earlier points. Except that I don't think the US will ever try to confiscate guns. Our governmental system, in its present state, would have to completely be in shambles...the will of the American people have proven time and again that we will never allow our government to get to that state. As much as radicals on both the left and the right want to exploit the fears of such a thing, all in all I think our governmental system is solid.

Jeremey wrote:

Memorex wrote:

Jeremey wrote:Aw, come on you guys...can't you at least agree that if you need a license to drive, you should at least be required to have a license to own a firearm?

I don't think one person here or anywhere else suggests that you should not be licensed to own a gun. I guess there are loophole laws and i have no problem with those being closed. I think everyone should have a background check as well. No one is arguing that, I think.

A national list of who owns what? That's just silly. And it again - it doesn't solve a single one of these crimes. Not one.

I agree with you on the registry - that's crazy...I guess what I meant is that shouldn't you have to take a qualifying course like you do to get a drivers license etc. Like you said in your post...trained...so I do agree with you on all of your earlier points. Except that I don't think the US will ever try to confiscate guns. Our governmental system, in its present state, would have to completely be in shambles...the will of the American people have proven time and again that we will never allow our government to get to that state. As much as radicals on both the left and the right want to exploit the fears of such a thing, all in all I think our governmental system is solid.

Yea. I do see a need for training. But look at the mom in Conn. She went to the range all the time and I guess was well versed, and yet she gave her kids access to the gun.

The only time my older kids have access to a gun and ammo at the same time (or ever) is when I load it at the range. If they hate me, I suppose they could shoot me there. But they won't get much farther than that.

slucero wrote:

• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.
  
• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
  
• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
  
  ...
  

How's about we just take kids off psychotropic drugs for a start?

That is a staggering list!

I've considered getting a firearm. Lots of break ins in my usually sedate suburban neighborhood recently. The reason I haven't is because so far I am too lazy to go get trained. Not only would I need training but so would my wife and educating my child to not go near it (she's smart already and listens extremely well so not worried there).

I do feel for home protection one revolver is enough kept in a safe in my bedroom with a quick push button code for fast but not instant access. That makes sense to me for self defense. If an intruder gets in and I can't take the 20 seconds to get it out of the safe I'm done for anyway.

I don't like the idea though of fiddling with a cumbersome gun lock if I ever needed it.

AR wrote:I've considered getting a firearm. Lots of break ins in my usually sedate suburban neighborhood recently. The reason I haven't is because so far I am too lazy to go get trained. Not only would I need training but so would my wife and educating my child to not go near it (she's smart already and listens extremely well so not worried there).

I do feel for home protection one revolver is enough kept in a safe in my bedroom with a quick push button code for fast but not instant access. That makes sense to me for self defense. If an intruder gets in and I can't take the 20 seconds to get it out of the safe I'm done for anyway.

I don't like the idea though of fiddling with a cumbersome gun lock if I ever needed it.

Growing up my dad had a .44 and a .38 in the nightstand drawer, and 2 shotguns in the closet. I knew never to fuck with them. I wasn't ever trained around them. I knew they could kill though (my dad was an ex-Ohio HWP). That being said, I brought my 3 and 5 year old to my parent's place in the mountains and got a little freaked out after they'd been running around the place for a few days and my dad casually mentioned "don't let them run around in the bedroom, my gun is in the nightstand."

Handguns are a valuable home defense tool...rifles are sporting equipment...that being said, I know assault rifles are fun to shoot at the range or whatever, but I do NOT see a practical use in the hands of the general public. Again, I am one of the naive idiots who does not believe the government is going to turn the army and the police on the citizenry, necessitating us all to have assault rifles in case the government suddenly decides to become a dictatorship.

slucero wrote:

• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.
  
• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
  
• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
  
• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
  
• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
  
• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
  
• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
  
• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
  
• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
  
• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
  
• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
  
• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
  
• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
  
• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
  
• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
  
• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
  
• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
  
• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
  
• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
  
• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
  
• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
  
• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
  
• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
  
• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
  
• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
  
• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")
  
• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
  (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)
  
• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.
  
• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
  
• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
  
• Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
  
• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
  
• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."
  
• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
  
• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
  
• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
  Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
  
• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
  New York high school.
  
• Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....
  
• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az
  
• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado
  
• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or
  
• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
  
  
  Roberts is the only one that apparently wasn't on drugs of some kind.
  

How's about we just take kids off psychotropic drugs for a start?

You need to consider there is a big reason the Dr's and parents turned to these drugs in the first place. There was something psychologically wrong with them BEFORE the meds. These meds aren't a cure. It doesn't make them a cause either.

slucero wrote:[list]


[*]Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

[*]A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

[*]Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

[*]TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

[*]Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.


[*]Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

I can only see Ritalin making someone talk another person to death! [edit: oh wait, that's adderall, whoops! LOL]

And what about weed, man? Where's all the people high on the pot that ended up offing people??? Good thing THAT is still illegal!

Honestly though...If you gave a bunch of 11, 14, 17 year olds coke or weed or heroin or LSD, would that be a good thing? So why are doctors prescribing these mind altering drugs to children?? There's chemical processes taking place in their brains that we have no idea how these drugs interact with!

Truly insane people like Adam Lanza and Jared Loughner and James Holmes really needed mental health treatment...and there's a whole army of people out there in this country that can't get help. Family members won't press charges? We can't take them to jail - And we won't send them into mental health treatment without their consent! So everyone is fucked.

StevePerryHair wrote:You need to consider there is a big reason the Dr's and parents turned to these drugs in the first place. There was something psychologically wrong with them BEFORE the meds. These meds aren't a cure. It doesn't make them a cause either.

I agree the meds aren't the cure...

But if the meds cause the person to become violent, and act out that violence with a gun. Then YES there is a commonality... And this list has causality written all over it.

Simply denying gun ownership to and/or requiring a gun safe be purchased and utilized in residences, AND making sure those gun owners recognize the dangers of having guns near persons on those meds is a very logical start.

slucero wrote:

StevePerryHair wrote:You need to consider there is a big reason the Dr's and parents turned to these drugs in the first place. There was something psychologically wrong with them BEFORE the meds. These meds aren't a cure. It doesn't make them a cause either.

I agree the meds aren't the cure...

But if the meds cause the person to become violent, and act out that violence with a gun. Then YES there is a commonality... And this list has causality written all over that list.

Simply denying gun ownership to and/or requiring a gun safe be purchased and utilized in residences, AND making sure those gun owners recognize the dangers of having guns near persons on those meds is a very logical start.

...Or making gun owners carry costly insurance policies! We have to insure our homes and cars against loss...it makes sense to me!

Jeremey wrote:

slucero wrote:

StevePerryHair wrote:You need to consider there is a big reason the Dr's and parents turned to these drugs in the first place. There was something psychologically wrong with them BEFORE the meds. These meds aren't a cure. It doesn't make them a cause either.

I agree the meds aren't the cure...

But if the meds cause the person to become violent, and act out that violence with a gun. Then YES there is a commonality... And this list has causality written all over that list.

Simply denying gun ownership to and/or requiring a gun safe be purchased and utilized in residences, AND making sure those gun owners recognize the dangers of having guns near persons on those meds is a very logical start.

...Or making gun owners carry costly insurance policies! We have to insure our homes and cars against loss...it makes sense to me!

While that would be a huge windfall for the insurance companies.. it would also unfairly target 99.9% of responsible gun owners. Especially if the real cause of rise in school massacre violence with guns is found to be the rise in the use of psychotropic meds on the majority of the perpetrators.

It's s simple study... it just needs to be done by qualified researchers.

If the study finds:

1. easy or unrestricted access to firearms and
2. history of psychotropic medication

in the majority of these mass shootings..


Then the answers become much more obvious and more importantly - effective.

slucero wrote:

Jeremey wrote:

slucero wrote:

StevePerryHair wrote:You need to consider there is a big reason the Dr's and parents turned to these drugs in the first place. There was something psychologically wrong with them BEFORE the meds. These meds aren't a cure. It doesn't make them a cause either.

I agree the meds aren't the cure...

But if the meds cause the person to become violent, and act out that violence with a gun. Then YES there is a commonality... And this list has causality written all over that list.

Simply denying gun ownership to and/or requiring a gun safe be purchased and utilized in residences, AND making sure those gun owners recognize the dangers of having guns near persons on those meds is a very logical start.

...Or making gun owners carry costly insurance policies! We have to insure our homes and cars against loss...it makes sense to me!

While that would be a huge windfall for the insurance companies.. it would also unfairly target 99.9% of responsible gun owners. Especially if the real cause of rise in school massacre violence with guns is found to be the rise in the use of psychotropic meds on the majority of the perpetrators.

It's s simple study... it just needs to be done by qualified researchers.

Or maybe study why so many children are suffering from psychological disorders, that they are needing to turn to medications in the first place. It's not like they are taking perfectly behaved kids and drugging them. There was a problem that got them to that point in the first place. Why? What is happening to these kids brains? There is SO much more that needs studied BESIDES medications. That's my point. Not the gun control stuff.

slucero wrote:

StevePerryHair wrote:You need to consider there is a big reason the Dr's and parents turned to these drugs in the first place. There was something psychologically wrong with them BEFORE the meds. These meds aren't a cure. It doesn't make them a cause either.

I agree the meds aren't the cure...

But if the meds cause the person to become violent, and act out that violence with a gun. Then YES there is a commonality... And this list has causality written all over it.

Simply denying gun ownership to and/or requiring a gun safe be purchased and utilized in residences, AND making sure those gun owners recognize the dangers of having guns near persons on those meds is a very logical start.

I kind of agree with the insurance policy thing. But, there are low income owners who do responsibly own guns who would denied their 2nd Amendment rights. We are all being taxed and feed enough. In theory though it you would think it would be a good idea. However a lot of these freaks who shoot up schools come from well to do families.

Really society is broken. I see no hope.

StevePerryHair wrote:

slucero wrote:

Jeremey wrote:

slucero wrote:

StevePerryHair wrote:You need to consider there is a big reason the Dr's and parents turned to these drugs in the first place. There was something psychologically wrong with them BEFORE the meds. These meds aren't a cure. It doesn't make them a cause either.

I agree the meds aren't the cure...

But if the meds cause the person to become violent, and act out that violence with a gun. Then YES there is a commonality... And this list has causality written all over that list.

Simply denying gun ownership to and/or requiring a gun safe be purchased and utilized in residences, AND making sure those gun owners recognize the dangers of having guns near persons on those meds is a very logical start.

...Or making gun owners carry costly insurance policies! We have to insure our homes and cars against loss...it makes sense to me!

While that would be a huge windfall for the insurance companies.. it would also unfairly target 99.9% of responsible gun owners. Especially if the real cause of rise in school massacre violence with guns is found to be the rise in the use of psychotropic meds on the majority of the perpetrators.

It's s simple study... it just needs to be done by qualified researchers.

Or maybe study why so many children are suffering from psychological disorders, that they are needing to turn to medications in the first place. It's not like they are taking perfectly behaved kids and drugging them. There was a problem that got them to that point in the first place. Why? What is happening to these kids brains? There is SO much more that needs studied BESIDES medications. That's my point. Not the gun control stuff.

Not disagreeing with you... but were talking about "gun control".... not kid control...