MR

Before the age of AC3, Dolby, {{Surround}}, THX, 5.1, 8.1, etc., etc., we had stereos (or Hi-Fi's as my dad called them... ) And before we all got our very own audio system, most of us probably relied on whatever our parents had. In my case, it was a Magnavox console stereo system with a turntable, AM/FM tuner, 8-Track player and 2 speakers, all built in to one big unit that actually constituted a piece of furniture. And surprisingly, it would crank out the tunes fairly loudly!


When I was 14 or 15 my folks bought me my first stereo "system". It was an all-in-one type of thing with 2 shitty little speakers - Soundesign I think... And it sufficed until I moved out on my own for the first time. That's when I decided it was time to take my appreciation for audio to a higher level and bought my first decent system:

Harmon Kardon amp
Harmon Kardon tuner
Teac dual cassette
Sansui 12 ch. graphic eq.
Denon turntable
Cerwin Vega 15" loudspeakers (Big behemoth boxes which I still have and still use on a daily basis. I've refinished them several times and upgraded the old paper coned drivers and tweeters with poly/rubber. )
Infinity RS-8 speakers

I was so proud of that system!! It was sooooooooooo sweet and sooooooooooooo loud! And sooooooooooooooooooo expensive!!

So, the question is, what did you start out with? Did you go straight from your Mickey Mouse clock radio to your own super system or did you have to settle for your parents' system until you got your own gear?

My 1st radio:




1st record player:




After that it was a Technics receiver.. the Pioneer, then Marantz... lots of speaker combos.. BSR turntables..


These days... I listen through AKGK702 headphones, running through a Focusrite DSP24



One of these days I'm gonna get that Pioneer SX-1250 I've always wanted..

slucero wrote:My 1st radio:




1st record player:




After that it was a Technics receiver.. the Pioneer, then Marantz... lots of speaker combos.. BSR turntables..


These days... I listen through AKGK702 headphones, running through a Focusrite DSP24



One of these days I'm gonna get that Pioneer SX-1250 I've always wanted..

Fact is that kind of vintage gear can cost a bundle now if they're in great shape.
Last year I did a bunch of network/cabling work for a guy who collects vintage and very high quality newer audio equipment. He's pretty well off and his house (which is HUGE) is like a museum. He has/had over 200 components displayed throughout the house with one room devoted to just his Marantz stuff. The job took over a month to complete and as we got to know each other the conversation obviously was heavy on audio gear et al. Near the completion of the job, he took all the info he had gleaned from me about my personal prefs and tastes and put together a very nice home theater pkg. for me which he gave me as a bonus! I was stunned! Among the stuff was a Pioneer Elite VSX-(can't remember the exact model) multi-zone, A/V receiver which is just incredible! It retailed for $2200.00! It's about 7 or 8 years old but looks brand new.
In contrast, I have a Kenwood receiver/amp that was the very first model to incorporate Dolby Surround and actually has 5 different theater modes!
I bought it brand new back in 88 or 89 IIRC with my first pair of Bose spks. 501's. And those babies rocked!

This was a bday present in 1980.

Liam wrote:This was a bday present in 1980.

Sweet!!! I wasn't aware Fisher had dabbled in the turntable market. It probably had a kick-butt diamond stylus and a..... wait.... Fisher-Price...... my bad. I thought we were talking about well, you know....

And I was the only 1 year old I , or ANYONE else, knew that was playing stuff like Styx and Journey on it. Fuck the "Wheels On The Bus". lol

Liam wrote::lol:

And I was the only 1 year old I , or ANYONE else, knew that was playing stuff like Styx and Journey on it. Fuck the "Wheels On The Bus". lol

♫The wheels on the bus can kiss my ass, kiss my ass...♫

EXACTLY!!!

JRNYMAN wrote:

slucero wrote:

One of these days I'm gonna get that Pioneer SX-1250 I've always wanted..

Fact is that kind of vintage gear can cost a bundle now if they're in great shape.
Last year I did a bunch of network/cabling work for a guy who collects vintage and very high quality newer audio equipment. He's pretty well off and his house (which is HUGE) is like a museum. He has/had over 200 components displayed throughout the house with one room devoted to just his Marantz stuff. The job took over a month to complete and as we got to know each other the conversation obviously was heavy on audio gear et al. Near the completion of the job, he took all the info he had gleaned from me about my personal prefs and tastes and put together a very nice home theater pkg. for me which he gave me as a bonus! I was stunned! Among the stuff was a Pioneer Elite VSX-(can't remember the exact model) multi-zone, A/V receiver which is just incredible! It retailed for $2200.00! It's about 7 or 8 years old but looks brand new.
In contrast, I have a Kenwood receiver/amp that was the very first model to incorporate Dolby Surround and actually has 5 different theater modes!
I bought it brand new back in 88 or 89 IIRC with my first pair of Bose spks. 501's. And those babies rocked!

yup... mopst of the SX-1250 are about $1000 rebuilt... still not bad.. considering they were $800 new in the late 70's...

slucero wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote:

slucero wrote:

One of these days I'm gonna get that Pioneer SX-1250 I've always wanted..

Fact is that kind of vintage gear can cost a bundle now if they're in great shape.
Last year I did a bunch of network/cabling work for a guy who collects vintage and very high quality newer audio equipment. He's pretty well off and his house (which is HUGE) is like a museum. He has/had over 200 components displayed throughout the house with one room devoted to just his Marantz stuff. The job took over a month to complete and as we got to know each other the conversation obviously was heavy on audio gear et al. Near the completion of the job, he took all the info he had gleaned from me about my personal prefs and tastes and put together a very nice home theater pkg. for me which he gave me as a bonus! I was stunned! Among the stuff was a Pioneer Elite VSX-(can't remember the exact model) multi-zone, A/V receiver which is just incredible! It retailed for $2200.00! It's about 7 or 8 years old but looks brand new.
In contrast, I have a Kenwood receiver/amp that was the very first model to incorporate Dolby Surround and actually has 5 different theater modes!
I bought it brand new back in 88 or 89 IIRC with my first pair of Bose spks. 501's. And those babies rocked!

yup... mopst of the SX-1250 are about $1000 rebuilt... still not bad.. considering they were $800 new in the late 70's...

Ever check out http://www.audiokarma.org/ ? If "the priests of the temples of Syrinx" referred to a bunch of audiophiles who collectively possessed the complete knowledge of vintage audio equipment and selected that site as their place to dwell, then audiokarma.org would be them/that place! Those guys take that stuff SERIOUSLY and then some. I've gotten the most obscure info I've needed from time to time that I could not find anywhere else. There's always lots of interesting stuff for sale too.

JRNYMAN wrote:

slucero wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote:

slucero wrote:

One of these days I'm gonna get that Pioneer SX-1250 I've always wanted..

Fact is that kind of vintage gear can cost a bundle now if they're in great shape.
Last year I did a bunch of network/cabling work for a guy who collects vintage and very high quality newer audio equipment. He's pretty well off and his house (which is HUGE) is like a museum. He has/had over 200 components displayed throughout the house with one room devoted to just his Marantz stuff. The job took over a month to complete and as we got to know each other the conversation obviously was heavy on audio gear et al. Near the completion of the job, he took all the info he had gleaned from me about my personal prefs and tastes and put together a very nice home theater pkg. for me which he gave me as a bonus! I was stunned! Among the stuff was a Pioneer Elite VSX-(can't remember the exact model) multi-zone, A/V receiver which is just incredible! It retailed for $2200.00! It's about 7 or 8 years old but looks brand new.
In contrast, I have a Kenwood receiver/amp that was the very first model to incorporate Dolby Surround and actually has 5 different theater modes!
I bought it brand new back in 88 or 89 IIRC with my first pair of Bose spks. 501's. And those babies rocked!

yup... mopst of the SX-1250 are about $1000 rebuilt... still not bad.. considering they were $800 new in the late 70's...

Ever check out http://www.audiokarma.org/ ? If "the priests of the temples of Syrinx" referred to a bunch of audiophiles who collectively possessed the complete knowledge of vintage audio equipment and selected that site as their place to dwell, then audiokarma.org would be them/that place! Those guys take that stuff SERIOUSLY and then some. I've gotten the most obscure info I've needed from time to time that I could not find anywhere else. There's always lots of interesting stuff for sale too.

kool site!

I got one like this from my parents so I could listen to my Infinity album. Mine was puke green though.




My first real HI-FI system consisted of the following items l bought in Japan in the mid 80s, whether at the Base Audio/video store or down in Akihabara Electric Town. Everything got changed out a few years later to Denon digital amps, Coral Speakers, Akai CD player, etc. but now it's all gone. I could have ran a small village with all the power that stuff took.

Don wrote:IMy first real HI-FI system consisted of the following items l bought in Japan in the mid 80s, whether at the Base Audio/video store or down in Akihabara Electric Town. Everything got changed out a few years later to Denon digital amps, Coral Speakers, Akai CD player, etc. but now it's all gone. I could have ran a small village with all the power that stuff took.

I think that's the same turntable I had!
CD's hadn't come out yet when I bought my first system. I bought my first CD player in 1986 at the base exchange and it still cost $325.00!! It was a Pioneer 5 disc carousel - can't begin to remember the model. I was the first one in my social circle to get one and it was such an incredible difference in sound quality! My first 2 CD's were Raised on Radio and Boston Third Sage. The first time I heard "Cantcha say you believe in me" the way it starts out of nowhere, acapella, I literally got goose bumps! It was soooooooo crisp and clear. Same thing with "Why can't This Night..."

Edit: Mis-stated the year I got my CD player as 1985. It was 1986.

JRNYMAN wrote:

Don wrote:IMy first real HI-FI system consisted of the following items l bought in Japan in the mid 80s, whether at the Base Audio/video store or down in Akihabara Electric Town. Everything got changed out a few years later to Denon digital amps, Coral Speakers, Akai CD player, etc. but now it's all gone. I could have ran a small village with all the power that stuff took.

I think that's the same turntable I had!
CD's hadn't come out yet when I bought my first system. I bought my first CD player in 1985 at the base exchange and it still cost $325.00!! It was a Pioneer 5 disc carousel - can't begin to remember the model. I was the first one in my social circle to get one and it was such an incredible difference in sound quality! My first 2 CD's were Raised on Radio and Boston Third Sage. The first time I heard "Cantcha say you believe in me" the way it starts out of nowhere, acapella, I literally got goose bumps! It was soooooooo crisp and clear. Same thing with "Why can't This Night..."

My first CD player (for about a week) was the Pioneer six-pack but I hated the cartridge that you put the discs in so I took it back to the Exchange and got the Kyocera from Aikihabara. I did keep the pack-in CDs that came with the Pioneer though; Heart (Heart) Chicago 17, and Conquistador (Maynard Ferguson).

Man you guys are old

You disrespectful young punk....I should hit you with my cane for that.

Everett wrote:Man you guys are old

If I didn't already have a full plate of things to do tonight with changing the batteries in my hearing aids, soaking my dentures, getting my ear hair trimmed and watching Matlock and Murder She Wrote (God, I just love that Angela Lansbury!), I'd hop on my Rascal and scoot right over there and whip your young ass for calling us "old"! {{Walks away from computer mumbling, "God damn kids today...}}

Don wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote:

Don wrote:IMy first real HI-FI system consisted of the following items l bought in Japan in the mid 80s, whether at the Base Audio/video store or down in Akihabara Electric Town. Everything got changed out a few years later to Denon digital amps, Coral Speakers, Akai CD player, etc. but now it's all gone. I could have ran a small village with all the power that stuff took.

I think that's the same turntable I had!
CD's hadn't come out yet when I bought my first system. I bought my first CD player in 1985 at the base exchange and it still cost $325.00!! It was a Pioneer 5 disc carousel - can't begin to remember the model. I was the first one in my social circle to get one and it was such an incredible difference in sound quality! My first 2 CD's were Raised on Radio and Boston Third Sage. The first time I heard "Cantcha say you believe in me" the way it starts out of nowhere, acapella, I literally got goose bumps! It was soooooooo crisp and clear. Same thing with "Why can't This Night..."

My first CD player (for about a week) was the Pioneer six-pack but I hated the cartridge that you put the discs in so I took it back to the Exchange and got the Kyocera from Aikihabara. I did keep the pack-in CDs that came with the Pioneer though; Heart (Heart) Chicago 17, and Conquistador (Maynard Ferguson).

If memory serves, didn't Pioneer and Sony both have problems with the cartridges in their original players? I seem to remember something about them being problematic in some way.

JRNYMAN wrote:

Everett wrote:Man you guys are old

If I didn't already have a full plate of things to do tonight with changing the batteries in my hearing aids, soaking my dentures, getting my ear hair trimmed and watching Matlock and Murder She Wrote (God, I just love that Angela Lansbury!), I'd hop on my Rascal and scoot right over there and whip your young ass for calling us "old"! {{Walks away from computer mumbling, "God damn kids today...}}

Something very similar to this:

whoa... the forum just got all wierd looking... wtf...

Here is my first "turntable". Trouble was it was expensive to operate. I could only play an LP on it once and then had to buy a new one if I wanted to hear it again.

Boomchild wrote:

index.jpg

Here is my first "turntable". Trouble was it was expensive to operate. I could only play an LP on it once and then had to buy a new one if I wanted to hear it again.

I'm guessing the needle wasn't a diamond stylus...?

JRNYMAN wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

index.jpg

Here is my first "turntable". Trouble was it was expensive to operate. I could only play an LP on it once and then had to buy a new one if I wanted to hear it again.

I'm guessing the needle wasn't a diamond stylus...?

Hell no! it was a needle and I mean needle. After playing an LP I would collect the shavings left on the LP and sell em back to the local record factory.

Late into this thread, but I don't have anything worth reading anyway.

I had one of those turntables in a box things when I was a kid, but I wound up taking it apart to see how it worked. I didn't really get into music until I was in my teens. I do remember my dad having one of those old console stereo systems, where, when you opened the lid, the turn table raised up. That thing would absolutely rattle the walls. I remember him playing old Chicago and Blood, Sweat and Tears music. I just didn't get into music until my cousin and I would go out drinking beer and he would either have Van Halen or Led Zeppelin playing. Initially I was turned off by it because I had such a Christian upbringing, but it didn't take long before it started clicking with me.

I'm mostly stuck with what I have now. Hand-me-downs fixed by my bro who used to fix electronics. My current equipment is but a crummy Optimus Amp, and a pair of Sears stereo speakers (which are rated for a number of amps that's higher than the Optimus Amp can handle. So should I ever upgrade, I won't need a new set of speakers.) I'd be afraid to upgrade, only because I've heard some of my favorite albums on an all-out awesome stereo system, and I sadly discovered the audio productions of said albums were utter muddy garbage.

Jonny B wrote:I'm mostly stuck with what I have now. Hand-me-downs fixed by my bro who used to fix electronics. My current equipment is but a crummy Optimus Amp, and a pair of Sears stereo speakers (which are rated for a number of amps that's higher than the Optimus Amp can handle. So should I ever upgrade, I won't need a new set of speakers.) I'd be afraid to upgrade, only because I've heard some of my favorite albums on an all-out awesome stereo system, and I sadly discovered the audio productions of said albums were utter muddy garbage.

Ahhh, but have you heard the "remastered" versions of said albums through a decent system? That makes all the difference in the world!

One of my buddies is the manager of the custom install division of a high-end audio/video company which caters to the wants and needs of serious audiophiles. He has several mix cd's/dvd's which he uses to demo the abilities of various systems. He'll play snippets of various songs on a client's current system then play the exact group on their new system after it's installed and configured and the differences are staggering! And all because of the abilities of the decoders and logic processors.
One track in particular will always stand out in my mind because, even after warning me ahead of time, I still blew the woofers on a pair of speakers! On a lower-end system that doesn't have the decoder and processor it's no problem whatsoever because it's as if the info encoded in the song doesn't exist. But through a system that does.... He told me "before you play this song, be sure to level out your bass and treble or even reduce them to below flat and adjust accordingly AFTER you hear how things sound."
Yeah, right! Give me a break! I've got a kick-ass system and have never had to back the sound or any of the audio settings down. MISTAKE! I use a 12 ch. graphic eq and have my audio configured with lots of low-end which, with the help of my subs, deliver a nice broad-spectrum sound. The spacialization present was detected and delivered via my amp to my speakers which couldn't handle the ridiculously low Hz and within 30 seconds or so, both cones detached themselves from the drivers!
The song is Bali Run by FourPlay. Great jazz tune!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slprjz11Ds0

I had an Emerson radio to start. Later, I had an Emerson tape recorder to play cassettes. When I was a teenager I had a Sound Design Sterep, dual cassette and turn table. My first album/cassette was Cyndi Lauper, She's So Unsusual. My first DVD was BON JOVI, Keep the Faith.

JRNYMAN wrote:

Jonny B wrote:I'm mostly stuck with what I have now. Hand-me-downs fixed by my bro who used to fix electronics. My current equipment is but a crummy Optimus Amp, and a pair of Sears stereo speakers (which are rated for a number of amps that's higher than the Optimus Amp can handle. So should I ever upgrade, I won't need a new set of speakers.) I'd be afraid to upgrade, only because I've heard some of my favorite albums on an all-out awesome stereo system, and I sadly discovered the audio productions of said albums were utter muddy garbage.

Ahhh, but have you heard the "remastered" versions of said albums through a decent system? That makes all the difference in the world!

One of my buddies is the manager of the custom install division of a high-end audio/video company which caters to the wants and needs of serious audiophiles. He has several mix cd's/dvd's which he uses to demo the abilities of various systems. He'll play snippets of various songs on a client's current system then play the exact group on their new system after it's installed and configured and the differences are staggering! And all because of the abilities of the decoders and logic processors.
One track in particular will always stand out in my mind because, even after warning me ahead of time, I still blew the woofers on a pair of speakers! On a lower-end system that doesn't have the decoder and processor it's no problem whatsoever because it's as if the info encoded in the song doesn't exist. But through a system that does.... He told me "before you play this song, be sure to level out your bass and treble or even reduce them to below flat and adjust accordingly AFTER you hear how things sound."
Yeah, right! Give me a break! I've got a kick-ass system and have never had to back the sound or any of the audio settings down. MISTAKE! I use a 12 ch. graphic eq and have my audio configured with lots of low-end which, with the help of my subs, deliver a nice broad-spectrum sound. The spacialization present was detected and delivered via my amp to my speakers which couldn't handle the ridiculously low Hz and within 30 seconds or so, both cones detached themselves from the drivers!
The song is Bali Run by FourPlay. Great jazz tune!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slprjz11Ds0

For the most part, I stick to rock and metal. But a lot of the modern bands seem to have this love affair with audio compression that gives a muddy sound, doesn't seem to matter if it's because they're on a limited budget or if they do so purposely. I have a friend who has the best equipment you can get for an audio system. Everything is commercial grade Sony/Mackie brands, $1K+ kind of stuff that you'd probably find more commonly in a studio than on a home stereo system. He has 3 vintage 70's/80's amps driving the highs, mids, and lows respectively. How loud can it go? How crisp is it? How broad the spectrum? In his words, a Josh Groban concert was the only system that outperformed his stereo. Yeah, it's that good.

I got him hooked on some of the female rock albums that I listen to (he goes mostly for audio production and not how good the music is,) and it surprised me when I heard them on his system how some albums were spectacular while others weren't so great.

The following below is a sampling of albums I introduced him to and how he graded the audio.

These albums got the poorest grade:
Delain "April Rain" (This was my Album of the Year in 2009, so I was very disappointed the widespread audio clipping throughout the album.)
All Lacuna Coil post-Comalies (mud mud mud.)
Elysion "Silent Scream" (same deal, but at least they have the excuse of being a newcomer.)
Within Temptation "The Silent Force" (Very spotty, some good produced-tunes, but you could tell they didn't have the budget to make it better.)
We Are the Fallen (more mud.)
All the After Forever stuff (ditto.)

These albums got a mid-grade for their production:
Everything done up by Nightwish (They have the biggest budget of all the groups I listen to but there was a little bit of audio compression present in every album. Plus, the vocals sometimes got lost in the mix, especially on the live albums and the most recent 'Imaginaerum' album.)
Within Temptation "The Heart of Everything" (You can tell that they made some money on their previous effort, because the audio production is much improved.)
Sirenia "The 13th Floor" (Nothing fancy production-wise, but the mix is very even and the lows go fairly low.)
Everything done by Evanescence (Audio compression is the issue. Not muddy but enough for it to be noticeable.)

These albums the highest praise for their production:
Within Temptation "The Unforgiving" and "An Acoustic Night at the Theatre." (Two of the VERY few albums he gave a perfect 10 out of 10 on his stereo. The lows go VERY low on the acoustic album...and 'The Unforgiving' could give some of the best-produced analog-recorded 80's vinyls a run for their money. His words.)
Lacuna Coil "Comalies"
Sirenia "The Enigma of Life" (Surprised me because he hates grunts, but the title track is surprisingly clean for a group on a limited budget.)
Delain "Lucidity" ('The Gathering' sounds fantastic.)
Amanda Marshall "S/T" (Not a fan of her music, but "Beautiful Goodbye" was one of those very few where you could give an 11 out of 10 for audio production. Her voice is fantastic on a big stereo.)

....

While we're on the topic of stereos....A lot of groups have released limited edition vinyls in the past few years for those audio-buffs, but on a limited budget, I never botherer to see if the audio production was different for a vinyl copy than, say, some of the cds that ended up in the 'mud' category. Or do they just do a carbon copy onto vinyl with no audio differences. Most of the groups who do a vinyl edition don't say either way. I had a theory that maybe audio production is so advanced now that most cds can't handle the production, thus producing the 'muddy' sound. Might be worth checking into.

It's actually the mixes...

In theory, anything at 0db (or over) is essentially distorting (clipping).

When mixing, an engineer will mix to around -5db to -3db, to leave some room for the mastering engineer to do his job...

The loudness wars come from the mastering engineers being forced to compress the audio to 0db. But this is where it gets interesting..

In the analog domain, 0db is the literal "wall".. you can't exceed that.. you simply get distortion.. however

In the digital domain.. software based limiting allows for the literal infinitesimal "rolling off" of clipping.. so "in theory", audio can be mastered as close to (or beyond) 0db, with no audible distortion.

Hence.. the loudness wars. And ear fatigue.

Because vinyl is a physical medium... when a vinyl master platter is cut (to make records), if the audio used has been mastered in the "loudness war" manner... it will be difficult to impossible to cut the vinyl platter.. the cutter will simply be unable to translate the digitally mastered, 0db rolled off material. Vinyl needs a few dB's of margin.