MR

I hesitate starting a thread about this - but I am curious about one aspect. The reason I hesitate is that i know some here often devolve these things into racist-type rants and I hate participating in those kinds of threads.

To be honest, I haven't really followed this case and I have no emotional attachment to it at all. At first glance, I feel like i know this 17 year old kid should not be dead and maybe it seems to be the fault of both parties. Zimmerman probably should not have been concerned about some kid walking by and the kid probably (potentially) started the physical fight. I have no idea really. The outcome honestly means nothing to me since i have no idea what happened.

What I am curious about is how people will react on verdict day, if there is one. It appears the trial is almost complete - maybe this week.

I've heard so many stories about threats of riots if there is an acquittal. So I have told all my kids that on verdict day, I want everyone home and we'll just hope all goes well. Reginald Denny is still fresh in my mind and being in the wrong place at the wrong time is too much of a chance, especially with the volume they are talking here.

In any case, I hope everyone stays calm. And I hope the families involved endure. And if there is rioting and looting, I got my eye on this nice 90" plasma.

There's an article (I don't have the link handy) that explains in detail why Zimmerman may very well avoid conviction due to lack of sufficient evidence.

I remember the LA riots well and while I'm glad I was an hour away at the time, SoCal certainly doesn't need more of that.

I have watched quite a bit of this. my take, Zimmerman was over zealous in his pursuit of Martin.
He was specifically told NOT to follow him which he ignored. Martin knew he was being followed by someone
and was probably frightened, even though it appears Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, Florida law states
you can still use lethal force if you feel your life is in danger. It is a fact Martin punched Zimmerman in the nose
and caused some wounds to the back of his head. The state should have pursued a manslaughter charge instead
of murder in the 2nd which requires a different level of proof. As to the public reaction, if this was in L.A. and
went Zimmerman's way (which I think it will) they could have problems but I dont think it will rise to the Rodney
King level of riots.

Someone sent me these links, which is why it was on my mind.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2356472/Police-Florida-town-Trayvon-Martin-killed-prepare-possible-riots-George-Zimmerman-acquitted.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/311937.html

http://www.infowars.com/threats-to-riot-loot-if-zimmerman-found-innocent-intensify/

My concern of course is tools like twitter and such make it easy to assemble quickly in the same place. In the LA riots, you had people wondering around until enough people got together. Now, it's flash mobs in no time.

Where I live, in the relatively peaceful upper-midwest, we have already seen things escalate quickly:

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2012/03/downtown_minneapolis_rocked_by_five_violent_flash_mobs_attacks_during_last_two_months.php

And of course many believe that some will use the case simply as a way to participate in looting.

I think it was a tragic death that could have been avoided. I don't think it was premeditated in any way. I do think both were at fault for its escalation. As for who did what I will let the courts decide. I don't know all the facts. I think it is sad for both families involved. One thing that does piss me off is people in the media who had Zimmerman as a cold blooded murder before any of the facts could be gathered together. I hate those shows like Nancy Grace that decide guilt or innocence before all the evidence is produced or all the facts are brought to light. I think it makes it hard for anyone to get a fair trial when the media and some celebrities, and senators jump on the band wagon without facts and claim a man innocent or guilty before the trial even ensues. Would we all be even aware of this one situation if it had not been so blown up by media attention?

Their going to throw the book at him regardless. Or may even pull that manuever where they let him go, then the riots follow, then they decide too many innocent people are being victimized from the rioters and throw him in the clink like they did during the Rodney King riots.

Zimmerman is not guilty of murder the way I see it and the facts that I have seen. Maybe he is guilty of manslaughter or negligent homicide.

The fault for the young man’s death does fall at his feet. He made the decisions he made and at every point he was wrong. He thought the person was up to no good and he escalated the situation until it became physical. Outside those two, no one knows who started the physical fight.

Zimmerman was told not to follow him and he ignored that advice. He was told not to intercede with him and he ignored that request. He was told not to carry a weapon while on duty for Neighborhood Watch and he did not follow that rule.

He was overzealous and if he did not have the firearm on him the worst case scenario was he could have caught a beating.

To me race does not play into this case.

I bet he is aquitted. Then Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will light the fire, because, to them, you know it will be about race.

Jessie Jackson and Al sharpton doesn't carry as much weight as you seem to think. Don''t let your own fears undermind you, win or lose, Zimmerman will have the rest of his life to relive his foolish decision, and that will be more punishment than any court of law could possibly pass out. It was all about getting this thing to the public eye, all the protests and calls for justice was for the world to see how the shooting of a teenager of color was being swept under the rug. This whole mess has surely opened some eyes to the profiling of young black men, however there are some who will never understand, and that is sad. I have read and heard many people slam the President for his statement to TM parents, " If I had a son he would look like Trayvon" it's not so hard to understand that quote,If he had a son his son would be brown skinned and dressed in the same pop culture clothing that TM was wearing, that's all it meant. I think this whole thing was mostly the fault of the Sanford police because had they done their job and not assumed that this young man was just another dead black thug to be thrown away like so much trash they would have done more to find out what truly happened, Now in order to keep the light off of their shoddy work they are attempting to undermine the state and help get GZ off so the heat won't be on them, OMG! even the ME did a piss poor job, because TM was just another dead black man and who gives a damn, in my opinion that's why he Couldn't remember " anything about the case" he didn't care either. I feel that TM friend RJ did a piss poor job of defending her friend, this young girl who claimed that TM was the only friend who had never made fun of the way she talked, dressed , looked and her weight. At the age of nineteen she behaved like a ten year old child ( not to slight a ten year old ) and in conclusion i think this whole thing is fucked up beyond repair. JMO

Been taping it and watching parts of it after hours... Even Martin's parents have stated lately, they don't think this is race related.
The ME screwed up royally.. He was even reading from his written script, which was not a part of discovery....Talk about a clown in a courtroom...

I've tried to avoid paying attention to this train wreck. I grow weary of those that raise holy hell about things of which they have little or no facts on which to base their outrage. It happens time and time again and each time they get a pass.

The media created this mess for self serving reasons. You can't tell me the youthful photos of the deceased were widely distributed instead of the pot smoking, thug photos, by accident.

If acquitted, there will be uprisings. Most will have no idea why, they are just doing it "because." Not because they know what really happened that evening.

The Sharptons and Jacksons of the world are like weathermen. If they keep saying things occurred because of racism long enough, eventually they will be right. Then, when they are completely wrong...ala Duke lacrosse team, etc....they don't even apologize for the up roar they created...with no facts to begin with.

Just wish everyone would ignore them.

hoagiepete wrote:The media created this mess for self serving reasons. You can't tell me the youthful photos of the deceased were widely distributed instead of the pot smoking, thug photos, by accident.

It's all about ratings first off. The difference between the youthful pix and the pot smoking thug shots is like the difference between innocent and guilty. They post the youthful pix to get everyone to think he was completely innocent of any wrongdoings.

The same media didn't post pix of the injuries Zimmerman sustained in the altercation. That's by accident too.

http://www.examiner.com/article/mob-bea ... ss-ignores

Mob beats man on his own front porch “for Trayvon”…press ignores



Mobile, AL – On Saturday night, Matthew Owens told a group of kids to stop playing in the middle of street, only to have them return with a group of adults who dished out a beating that landed him in the Intensive Care Unit, according to police.

Hate Crimes
Trayvon Martin

Police say that the group of 20 assailants used chairs, pipes and paint cans to waylay Owens on his own front porch.

The victim’s sister, Ashley Parker, told News 5: “It was the scariest thing I have ever witnessed.” She said the attackers used “brass buckles, paint cans and anything they could get their hands on.”

Parker added that as her brother lie on the ground bleeding, one of the assailants looked back and shouted: “Now that’s justice for Trayvon!”

Owens is still listed in critical condition at the University of South Alabama Medical Center.

Mobile police have yet to make any arrests in the case and are urging anyone with information on the case call Crime Stoppers at 251-208-7000, or text a tip to 274637 and include the keyword CRIME 411.

While this attack may be shocking in it’s brutality, it is only the latest in a string of alleged black-on-white hate crimes in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting on February 26, in Sanford, Florida.

-Last week, police in the Chicago suburb of Maywood arrested 18-year-old Alton L. Hayes III, after he and a juvenile accomplice allegedly attacked and robbed a man. Hayes has admitted to the crime and told police he committed the brutal assault because he was angry over the Trayvon Martin case, Cook County State’s Attorney’s office spokeswoman Tandra Simonton told the Sun-Times.

On April 17, Hayes and a 15-year-old Chicago boy grabbed the 19-year-old victim, pinning his arms to his sides. Hayes then threatened to hit the man with a tree branch and said, “empty your pockets, white boy,” said police.

After going through the man’s pockets they knocked him to the ground, punching the victim in the head “numerous times” before fleeing the scene, according to court documents.

Both Hayes and his co-defendant are black.

Hayes has been charged with attempted robbery, aggravated battery and a hate crime. He is currently being held in the Cook County Jail on $80,000 bond.

-On March 28, police in Seneca, South Carolina, announced the arrest of six suspects who they say beat a North Carolina man at an Applebee's earlier this month.

All of the alleged attackers are black and the victim is white. Police believe the attack was racially motivated and have referred the case to the FBI for possible prosecution under federal hate crimes statutes.

Teryn Robinson, 18, Tray Holland, 19, Justin Alexander, 20, Derick Williams, 22, Kino Jones, 25, and Montrez Jones, 22, have all been charged with assault and battery by a mob.

On March 17, officers arrived at the Applebee's at 696 By Pass 123 shortly before 1:00 a.m. Once on the scene, they discovered Terry Moore, 32, lying on the ground, according to the police report.

Moore told police that he went to use the restroom as the rest of his group walked outside to their cars.

Once outside, Moore says he was confronted by a large group of young black men who taunted and shouted racial slurs at him, such as “tree honky” and “cracker.”

One of the alleged assailants knocked Moore to the ground as he was quickly surrounded. The group began punching and kicking him.

One witness told police that one of the attackers used a stun gun on Moore.

Seneca Police Chief John Covington told the Independent Mail that none of those charged knew Moore According to Covington, none of the suspects knew Moore.

All of the suspects are currently being held in the Oconee County detention center.

I still remember cleary watching that white long haired truck driver getting a chunk of cement thrown through his face during the Rodney King riots. They classified that as some type of "payback" also. It's slowly going to turn this way with everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXcHEMiHr4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLJlVhKtNuI

The Sushi Hunter wrote:I still remember cleary watching that white long haired truck driver getting a chunk of cement thrown through his face during the Rodney King riots. They classified that as some type of "payback" also. It's slowly going to turn this way with everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXcHEMiHr4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLJlVhKtNuI

I hope not. That's my fear. I just hope everyone stays calm - like they are asking:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/08/Broward-county-sheriff-riots

The Sushi Hunter wrote:I still remember cleary watching that white long haired truck driver getting a chunk of cement thrown through his face during the Rodney King riots. They classified that as some type of "payback" also. It's slowly going to turn this way with everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXcHEMiHr4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLJlVhKtNuI

The comments of both videos are disturbing, but especially so for the first one you posted.

I been paying some attention to this and honestly feel there were mistakes made on both sides. Zimmerman's mistake was having a gun on his person. Since he is part of a "neighborhood watch" he simply is there to observe and report. I disagree that he ignored the 911 agents request to not pursue Martin. From what has been presented, Zimmernan was returning to his car after he was told not to pursue and that is when Martin confronted him. Martin 's mistake was not call 911 himself to report that he was being followed and felt threatened or went to someone's house and ask for help. Instead he calls a girlfriend to tell her about a "creepy cracker" following him. I also think it's hard to relate how one should react unless you are in the exact situation. All in all it's up to a jury to weigh the evidence presented and make a decision.

This case is only national news because the media wants to fan the flames of racism. They are the guilty ones when the riots start. It's reprehensible that it is anymore than a local story where the incident occurred.

Here is a reverse story that occurred in my hometown that I bet most of you never heard about:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-46578

Zach Sowers was a 28 year old resident of Baltimore, who was beaten into a coma in June of 2007 walking home from a bar. He had been married less than a year to his wife, Anna Sowers when this beating occurred. After remaining in a coma for 10 months, Zach passed away in March of 2008. He never regained consciousness.

Four African American males, Arthur Jeter, 18; Wilburt Martin, 19; Eric L. Price, 17; and Trayvon Ramos, 16 were arrested and convicted of the crime. BUT - Price, Jeter and Martin only received 8 years. Ramos received a life sentence with all but 40 years suspended. He will be eligible for parole in about 20 years. Also, even though Zach eventually died from his injuries sustained in the attack, these four boys can not be tried for murder - as part of the plea deal that was arranged.

Thinking this can't get any worse? Wrong.

In May, an article appeared in Exhibit A, an online publication about legal issues. The article was written by Melody Simmons. She had interviewed the spokeswoman for Baltimore prosecutors, Margaret Burns. After the article appeared, Anna and many of her supporters (myself included) expressed outrage over several remarks made by Ms. Burns. Anna has turned into a crusader and hero, and is dedicated to try and turn things around in Baltimore, with regards to violent crime. She is trying to have Zach's Law passed. This law would allow prosecutors to levy murder charges while a victim lies in a near-death state. Anna, along with Dr. Marek Mirski, the head of Neuro-Critical Care Unit (and Zach's treating physician) at Johns Hopkins Hospital have created the Zach Sowers Brain Trauma Research Fund.

Some examples of the damaging comments made by Ms. Burns:

"The truth of the matter is, Zach's injury was on one side of this face, and he looked like a sleeping baby when he arrived" at the hospital, Burns told Exhibit A. "The injuries were not consistent with this horrible pummeling-it appeared that when he fell down, he had collapsed after being hit. We know he was kicked, he fell and hit his head, he fell between two cars. He probably injured something in the fall or he had a pre-existing condition. There was no evidence of the vicious beating, no evidence of stomping."

Burns added: "We had not wanted to go against this poor woman. Everything she says to you is not 100 accurate. He is gone and the opportunity to have questions answered was ruined by not having an autopsy."

After the article appeared, Anna requested a public apology AND a public retraction from Ms. Burns. After several days, Ms. Burns sent Anna a half-hearted letter, which could hardly pass as an apology. The letter basically stated that she had been misrepresented in the article, and that her comments were taken out of context. Anna contacted Ms. Burns again to demand a public apology and retraction and was turned away, being told, "that Burns has no further comments on this issue beyond the letter."

Dr. Mirski went so far to write a letter to Ms. Burns, documenting Zach's injuries and pointing out that "his condition was highly critical and near death from severe head lacerations and intracranial trauma. He was not, and could not in the remotest sense as reported by the media to look as he were "sleeping like a baby". He was in a deep coma, unarousable to even the deepest of stimulation. His face and scalp were entirely disfigured and discolored with bruising, swelling and lacerations. His neck was in a collar, an orogastric tube was in place, and he had an endotracheal breathing tube down his mouth as he was assisted by a ventilator." His descriptions of Zach's condition upon arrival were pulled directly from Zach's medical chart.

The simple fact that people will commit heinous acts against an innocent person and then use the excuse "it was payback" is a clear example of what we are dealing with in society. Sad, but real.

Love the "anger over Trayvon" comments by everyone from Jamie Foxx to thugs on the street. Do they all know something that we don't?

Our media and so called civic leaders are all SICK.

Authorities in Florida and perhaps elsewhere are already talking about possible violence from the verdict in this case. They are trying to calm things down even before they start, with the "Keep it Calm for Tryvon" operation along with the “Raise Your Voice, Not Your Hands" video. The making and promotion of such videos just proves what type of people we are dealing with. Does it really take a fucking hood video to instruct these people on how to act in a somewhat civilized manner?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AN_siaEpQA

Prosecutors want manslaughter and aggravated assault to be included as lesser charges in the jury instructions. The defense objects and the judge says they will take up this matter on Thursday.

I imagine they do.

The defense beating up on a black dummy in the courtroom today didn't seem like something that they should have done. Text messages from Martin right before the incident were not allowed to be presented by the defense. I'd love to read those text messages, wonder what was said.

Boomchild wrote: Martin 's mistake was not call 911 himself to report that he was being followed and felt threatened or went to someone's house and ask for help. Instead he calls a girlfriend to tell her about a "creepy cracker" following him. I also think it's hard to relate how one should react unless you are in the exact situation. All in all it's up to a jury to weigh the evidence presented and make a decision.

He didn't call 911 because he was stoned.

I've seen enough. Not guilty.....of anything. And people should raise their kids differently if they don't want them meet the same fate as TM and others like him.

steveo777 wrote:I've seen enough. Not guilty.....of anything. And people should raise their kids differently if they don't want them meet the same fate as TM and others like him.

Wow. Seriously? I have to say that is pretty ridiculous

As I stated above, I firmly believe that Zimmerman is not guilty of murder even if you concede to the procecution. It is an overreach to calm the public.

I do think a lesser charge like manslaughter or negligent homicide are possible.

Having said that, what did this young man do to deserve to die? The only thing he has done is smoke weed at some point as a teenager. Almost everyone on this board deserves to die if that is the case.

Hollywood wrote:

steveo777 wrote:I've seen enough. Not guilty.....of anything. And people should raise their kids differently if they don't want them meet the same fate as TM and others like him.

Wow. Seriously? I have to say that is pretty ridiculous

As I stated above, I firmly believe that Zimmerman is not guilty of murder even if you concede to the procecution. It is an overreach to calm the public.

I do think a lesser charge like manslaughter or negligent homicide are possible.

Having said that, what did this young man do to deserve to die? The only thing he has done is smoke weed at some point as a teenager. Almost everyone on this board deserves to die if that is the case.

I didn't say he deserved to die, but his actions caused him to. He even told Zimmerman that he, GZ, was going to die. That would have put me in the self defense mode immediately and if I felt it was my life or his, I would have shot too. It's unfortunate, but GZ defended himself, as he could. That is what the jury will find too, I believe. The kid was on top, beating GZ's head on the pavement and punched him in the nose, not acting in a non aggressive manor.

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Authorities in Florida and perhaps elsewhere are already talking about possible violence from the verdict in this case. They are trying to calm things down even before they start, with the "Keep it Calm for Tryvon" operation along with the “Raise Your Voice, Not Your Hands" video. The making and promotion of such videos just proves what type of people we are dealing with. Does it really take a fucking hood video to instruct these people on how to act in a somewhat civilized manner?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AN_siaEpQA

You can try and "instruct" people that would react with violence but, in reality it is all those that do know how to deal with such situations. I don't see how this is really going to help if such a situation presents itself.

steveo777 wrote:

Hollywood wrote:

steveo777 wrote:I've seen enough. Not guilty.....of anything. And people should raise their kids differently if they don't want them meet the same fate as TM and others like him.

Wow. Seriously? I have to say that is pretty ridiculous

As I stated above, I firmly believe that Zimmerman is not guilty of murder even if you concede to the procecution. It is an overreach to calm the public.

I do think a lesser charge like manslaughter or negligent homicide are possible.

Having said that, what did this young man do to deserve to die? The only thing he has done is smoke weed at some point as a teenager. Almost everyone on this board deserves to die if that is the case.

I didn't say he deserved to die, but his actions caused him to. He even told Zimmerman that he, GZ, was going to die. That would have put me in the self defense mode immediately and if I felt it was my life or his, I would have shot too. It's unfortunate, but GZ defended himself, as he could. That is what the jury will find too, I believe. The kid was on top, beating GZ's head on the pavement and punched him in the nose, not acting in a non aggressive manor.

Only two people know what was said and one of them is dead. Many people have threatened to kill people during a fight. You indicated that Trayvon died because of how he was raised. How? What did he do that shows that he was poorly raised? The fact that he was beating up Zimmerman does not weigh into this discussion as far as Trayvon being a bad person. The same argument thus Zimmerman is making to prove his innocence is the same argument that Trayvon would make if he was arrested for beating up Zimmerman. He was scared and defending himself.