Moderator: Andrew
The_Noble_Cause wrote:verslibre wrote:Aquaman is done. Wonder Woman 2 and Shazam! go into production in 2018. Same film universe.
The current state of the DC cinematic universe is still very much in doubt. Aquaman director, James Wan, has been openly distancing himself from creative choices in Justice League. Wonder Woman 2, like Suicide Squad 2, was inevitable because it made $$$. DC Films has completely restructured following Justice League. Matt Reeves seemingly wants nothing to do with Affleck. Originally proposed films like Cyborg, JL2, and MOS 2 will never see the light of day. The entire focus has shifted from a connected universe ala Marvel to standalone films. This has been documented all over.
S2M wrote:CBMs will be tumbleweed junction in 5 years.
verslibre wrote:S2M wrote:CBMs will be tumbleweed junction in 5 years.
As in 2022? Don't bet money on that. You'll lose.
S2M wrote:verslibre wrote:S2M wrote:CBMs will be tumbleweed junction in 5 years.
As in 2022? Don't bet money on that. You'll lose.
Golan/Globus ain't walking through that door! And if you get THAT reference WITHOUT looking it up I'll be impressed.![]()
verslibre wrote:Yes, the movies that make money get sequels.
verslibre wrote:Those movies outgrossed stuff like Doctor Strange and Ant-Man, but they'll still get sequels.
verslibre wrote:Not doing Wonder Woman 2 would be a very bad move.
verslibre wrote:Wan has not "distanced himself" from Justice League. He even tweeted that he liked it.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:verslibre wrote:Those movies outgrossed stuff like Doctor Strange and Ant-Man, but they'll still get sequels.
Those DC films also cost ALOT more. Strange and Antman came after the Marvel universe had been concretely built. Marvel could afford to take some risks.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Not looking to argue. You are simply uninformed.
Regarding the laugh-inducing air bubbles in Justice League, Wan tweeted "Fret not, no air bubbles for dialogue in my underwater world."
The_Noble_Cause wrote:He also said Aquaman is "going to look very different, it will feel very different — aesthetically, tonally, story-wise — it’s my own take. It’s a much more a traditional action-adventure quest movie."
verslibre wrote:Actually, Wonder Woman ($149 million) cost less than Doctor Strange ($165 million),
verslibre wrote: and the latter barely finished with more than Man of Steel (which looks a lot better), even with the combo of Benedict and the Marvel brand.
verslibre wrote:Ant-Man was a much cheaper movie, but they cooked the numbers on it because that project dragged on for years before Edgar Wright finally said he'd had enough.
verslibre wrote::lol: Same here. / That just means they figured out a way to make the dialogue sound better in an underwater environment. That's not a wholesale condemnation of the convo between Aquaman and Mera, which sounded fine, and which I believe we'll get a reprise of. Of course, "air bubbles" is a direct reference to the comics...
verslibre wrote:You're definitely overthinking it. His rhetoric doesn't isn't a dismissal of JL. He's effectively saying "this is something new, different — don't expect what my predecessors have done." Wan is a successful director in his own right. He doesn't need to emulate the styles of others.
verslibre wrote:I look forward to the Marvel movies which will yield comparable imagery and choreography.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:verslibre wrote:Actually, Wonder Woman ($149 million) cost less than Doctor Strange ($165 million),
Wonder Woman surpassed industry expectations. When I talk about DC burning money, I am referring to BvS and JL.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:That's really an indictment of DC and MOS - not Strange. Superman is the most well-known superhero. Outside of comic-reading circles, Dr. Strange is fairly obscure.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:verslibre wrote:Ant-Man was a much cheaper movie, but they cooked the numbers on it because that project dragged on for years before Edgar Wright finally said he'd had enough.
D-list heroes like Ant-Man should not even be muttered in the same breath as Batman and Superman. DC had a license to print money and really blew it.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:verslibre wrote::lol: Same here. / That just means they figured out a way to make the dialogue sound better in an underwater environment. That's not a wholesale condemnation of the convo between Aquaman and Mera, which sounded fine, and which I believe we'll get a reprise of. Of course, "air bubbles" is a direct reference to the comics...
If there was nothing to be embarrassed about, Wan wouldn't have felt the need to respond.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:verslibre wrote:You're definitely overthinking it. His rhetoric doesn't isn't a dismissal of JL. He's effectively saying "this is something new, different — don't expect what my predecessors have done." Wan is a successful director in his own right. He doesn't need to emulate the styles of others.
That's one interpretation. I fully expect Wan and Momoa to further distance themselves from JL in the months ahead. Watch this space.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:verslibre wrote:I look forward to the Marvel movies which will yield comparable imagery and choreography.
Snyder has left the building, dude.
S2M wrote:The_Noble_Cause wrote:verslibre wrote:
Nope, Wonder Woman 2 is filming in '18. Already written, cast and crew are set up. There were rumors of a movie with Shazam/Superman/Black Adam, but with the Black Adam movie off the slate, that's probably not happening, either. Yet. Shazam! starts filming in February, too.
The existence of Wonder Woman 2 doesn't prevent her being teamed up with Superman in the future. If the DC cinematic universe even goes forward (a BIG *if*) I imagine most of the films will involve her predominantly. DC added Batman into the mix because a solo Superman film did not connect with audiences. It would be a huge gamble for them to try that again.
The problem with ANY story is that plot doesn't matter as much as folks think. Yes, plot helps drive the story...in the background, and yes a hokey plot can ruin a movie, and to an equal extent: Casting. But interesting characters, DIALOGUE, and intelligent INTERACTIONS between those interesting characters are what determines a bad movie from a good movie, and a good movie from a great movie.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Suicide Squad and WW made bank. But that's not a universe. Justice League was supposed to be the central linchpin of the extended DC universe. It misfired. There's nothing holding the universe together right now except Wonder Woman. And maybe Suicide Squad, which was a mess.
That's really an indictment of DC and MOS - not Strange. Superman is the most well-known superhero. Outside of comic-reading circles, Dr. Strange is fairly obscure.
If they do anything, they will do another team up movie. Maybe Cavill's Supes with Wonder Woman. They won't bet the farm on another MOS solo movie. Losing proposition.
YoungJRNYfan wrote:The_Noble_Cause wrote:Suicide Squad and WW made bank. But that's not a universe. Justice League was supposed to be the central linchpin of the extended DC universe. It misfired. There's nothing holding the universe together right now except Wonder Woman. And maybe Suicide Squad, which was a mess.
Justice League misfired but just like how BvS misfired, the concept of the DCEU was to work in reverse of the Marvel model. The intention was always going to set up a shared universe in team-up films and work their way out from there to introduce the standalone films. Though BvS didn't meet expectations, Wonder Woman's role in that film was meant to set-up her solo feature. It worked. Aquaman is finished and was the next movie slated after JL. The same method is in place. Justice League was meant to spawn a new direction and get audience ready for solo adventures. That's what the DC Films universe is going to be held together by. Solo films. Superman returned in JL and there's high demand for a Superman film right now. He's 1/3 of the Trinity. With Wonder Woman 2 slated and Batman ushering out its current actor, the iron is hot to have Henry and Gal regroup and lead this thing into the next saga.That's really an indictment of DC and MOS - not Strange. Superman is the most well-known superhero. Outside of comic-reading circles, Dr. Strange is fairly obscure.
Superman may be the most well-known, but there's been so many iterations that being the most well-known doesn't necessarily equal out to all things positive with the character's exposure in pop culture. Superman is still in a state of flux of what he should be to a mass audience while characters like Doctor Strange benefit from the Marvel Cinematic Brand. Doctor Strange may be obscure, but the MCU isn't. Being attached to that technical aspect helps those obscure matters.If they do anything, they will do another team up movie. Maybe Cavill's Supes with Wonder Woman. They won't bet the farm on another MOS solo movie. Losing proposition.
I bet they do. Soft-booting this DC Films Universe already happened with JL. Time and time again the rebranding of the DC films moniker was about rebuilding characters that inspired hope, optimism, heroism, fun and adventure. There's no other heavyweight in the DC library that represents those definitions more than Superman. They have a chance to wrong the right by re-visiting the character that should of been a beacon to begin with. It would be a poetic start-over by going back to the one who started things to reinvent the DCEU wheel. Wonder Woman is a warrior. Batman is dark. Superman is the light. Focus on that. If they play the cards right in their rebrand, there's no better winning proposition than to have Superman carry that "hope" and "optimism" torch. They can pick that ball back up and run with it.
I'm also not ruling out Superman appearing in Wonder Woman 2. Patty Jenkins is a massive Superman fan and would want nothing more than to play with his universe. Amy Adams mentioned in an interview how she "can't wait to work with Patty." I bet at the very least, Amy appears in Wonder Woman 2. Maybe doing a piece from the Daily Planet on this Amazonian Warrior who also has ties to seeing her beloved pass away in front of her. Lois and Diana have a lot in common and Patty can make one helluva scene evolve around two of the most powerful (and influential) women in the DC Universe in their own ways.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Yes, solo movies for Aquaman, Cyborg, and Flash were always planned, but the extended inter-connected DC universe was also supposed to be ongoing. That is now being minimized. It's clear they don't know what the hell they're doing.
As for MOS 2, I feel like we have been debating this now for almost a decade. If the studio believed in the Cavill brand, they would not have shoehorned Batman into the follow-up in the first place. Nobody is going to pony up the cash to finance MOS 2.
YoungJRNYfan wrote:Man of Steel was self contained.
YoungJRNYfan wrote:So was Wonder Woman and Aquaman/Reeves Batman films will be too and they will connect to the DCEU, as will Shazam.
YoungJRNYfan wrote: Hearing what Matthew Vaughn is saying, it's no coincidence WB is turning to a guy that single handily turned a struggling X-Men franchise upside down and onto its head. The DCEU is going to get X-versed. It's getting softbooted while keeping the elements that worked.
YoungJRNYfan wrote:It's really not been that long. The intention after MoS was always going to be setting up the shared universe.
YoungJRNYfan wrote:It won't take much for the powers that be to gain instant confidence in a Superman movie if a big name director ala Matthew Vaughn or J.A Bayona (who expressed interest in MoS2) signs on. Those are huge boosters and it's known Vaughn has had talks about Superman that are still ongoing at this moment. Superman doesn't need a big budget. Keep it Wonder Woman levels. A good, character driven and adventurous Superman story can be had without an overflated budget, no doubt.
RedWingFan wrote:Abitaman wrote:I know Star Wars is really a Disney Marvel movie, but has anyone seen it? I saw it last night it was pretty good. Won't give any details because of spoilers, but one of the better. I've seen a lot of complaints online about what happened in the movie, but there's still another movie to go to explain things. So I think people are getting upset for nothing. The one drawback for me a lot of the humor seemed forced
It was entertaining. Time flew by while watching it. Didn't care with where they went with characters and how they are changing what the force is and what it can do.
The Leia scene and the BB8 scene taking out the guards were stupid
The_Noble_Cause wrote:I wouldn't lump Reeves's Batman film with these other films. The original plans for The Batman was to have him face off against Deathstroke, who was to be set-up in JL. The Deathstroke scenes in JL were left on the cutting room floor. Reeves's decided to start fresh on Batman and discard Affleck's script. There is no master plan here. It changes day by day. Reeves is being given carte blanche to do as he sees fit.
YoungJRNYfan wrote:X-Men wasn't really struggling. At the time, X3 was the highest grossing film in the franchise. Admittedly, it was shitty. Vaughn's First Class (which I love) actually made less.
verslibre wrote:The Deathstroke script was the one Ben was going to direct. Ben no longer wanted to direct. Matt obviously has other ideas, as directors like Edgar Wright, Gareth Edwards and Rian Johnson often do.
verslibre wrote:There was a five-year gap, and First Class (a great movie) performed well below expectations. As did X-Men: Apocalypse.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:verslibre wrote:The Deathstroke script was the one Ben was going to direct. Ben no longer wanted to direct. Matt obviously has other ideas, as directors like Edgar Wright, Gareth Edwards and Rian Johnson often do.
I know all this already. My point is...if the plan was for the movies to be "self-contained", as Young claims, why did The Batman script so heavily involve Deathstroke? Batman was obviously going to build off Deathstroke's appearance in JL (before it cut to ribbons).
The_Noble_Cause wrote:verslibre wrote:There was a five-year gap, and First Class (a great movie) performed well below expectations. As did X-Men: Apocalypse.
So what?
verslibre wrote:First Class is good shit. Future Past was anticlimactic. Fassbender is a way better Magneto than Gandalf.
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