Here's One For The Perry Fans

[Andrew]

Show me one.
I defy you.

No, don't.

Please - let's put it all aside and move on. We don't have to go down this route.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Show me one.
I defy you.

No, don't.

Please - let's put it all aside and move on. We don't have to go down this route.

Save your breath, 'Drew.
She wouldn't have been able to anyways.

[ohsherrie]

However, the irrational attacks on Perry.

Show me one.
I defy you.

Drop it TNC, I'm not going to play this hateful game with you. If we can't talk like rational adults we just won't talk at all. I tried ignoring you for a while until I could see your hostility bringing the whole board down, now I'm asking you to please stop.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Drop it TNC, I'm not going to play this hateful game with you.

What game?
You made a claim, and now I am simply asking you to back it up.
Why is it everytime you are asked to corroborate on one of your many claims, you deflect and say you are being unfairly bullied?

If we can't talk like rational adults we just won't talk at all.

How is asking for a modicum of corroboration in any ways "non-rational"?

I tried ignoring you for a while until I could see your hostility bringing the whole board down, now I'm asking you to please stop.

More of the same "oh woe is me" pity ploys.
That is such a red herring.
If you think u can come here and merrily proliferate garbage unchecked, you are sorely mistaken.

[Andrew]

NC,
OhSherrie has been a voice of reason amongst Perry die hards and I think has helped with her contribution to the board.

I see you have issues, but please...move along.

[The_Noble_Cause]

NC,
OhSherrie has been a voice of reason amongst Perry die hards and I think has helped with her contribution to the board.

Whoopdy Doo.
That may be so, but it doesn't mean she gets a pass to innundate this board with baseless accusatory hot trash.

[Rockindeano]

You think there is going to be a major altercation and I am going to sit on the sidelines? No way.

I like Sherrie..I like TNC. My view.

Sherrie, I told you in a PM, you need to fight the fight, if you are to engage. I know you are smart enough, but you are running here a little bit. You need to take some time, get your story and argument ready, and turn the guns on him. I am saying this as a fan of the board. TNC, is pretty good at this, and the reason why IMO, is that facts are on his side most of time. If you are going to join the Perry camp, you need to realize that you will do so knowing you don't have as many bullets in your arsenal.


You want an example of how NOT to argue? Look at Opening Act last night. He took me on, and embarrassed himself more than usual. He kept coming, even when he was beat to a bloody pulp...DO NOT do that. If you realize you are wrong, admit, and live to fight another day. If you believe you are correct, formulate a plan, and fight on. Andrew is so tolerant as long as it is factual and semi-civil. You can't ask any more of that from a moderator.

Ok, carry on..Let's see some sparks fly.

[jrnyman28]

If you realize you are wrong, admit, and live to fight another day.

Problem is that this is not all about "right" and "wrong". There is a lot of emotion that cannot be argued logically. Besides, NO ONE admits to be wrong on this forum...

Andrew is so tolerant as long as it is factual and semi-civil.

Oh, he doesn't seem to mind some of it being completely "un-civil" either.

You can't ask any more of that from a moderator.

Ok, carry on..Let's see some sparks fly.

Andrew's the greatest because he let's us go (most of the time)! But I am not sure you are gonna see 'sparks fly' either.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Besides, NO ONE admits to be wrong on this forum...

Bullshit. I apologised to PF just the other day for wrongly naming her as the belligerent PMer who was flooding Andrew's mailbox.

[jrnyman28]

Besides, NO ONE admits to be wrong on this forum...

Bullshit. I apologised to PF just the other day for wrongly naming her as the belligerent PMer who was flooding Andrew's mailbox.

But that had nothing to do with Journey/Perry/the topics at hand. I should have been clearer in my post, sorry.

[Eric]

gedgers@globe.com
To applaud or discuss

Posters like ohsherrie have really been great the last few weeks because they are re-energized by Perry being out and about. I hope they realize that is how we Journey fans feel every new album and tour.

Perry is always gracious in interviews. He is polished and has a magic to him. However, the author was not gracious and took unecessary shots at Journey. I think the reason Schon and Cain don't come off the same as they are not as polished...BUT...I do not see them bashing Perry. Schon has certainly argued with Perry fans, and that gets blown out of proportion.

[jrnyman28]

Eric,
I agree!

[Red13JoePa]

I'm interested in how despite the temporary truce and good will that was the WOF last winter, that Perry and Journey seem to back to the cold war behavior. That thing must have produced very mixed emotions. I just cannot fathom, though, that he expected Schon and Cain not to replace him when he was getting ready to mothball the band a second time. Fool Neal once, shame on Perry. Fool him TWICE and woulda been shame on Neal for being a dope.

Neal, Jonathan, Ross, Steve and Deen Thank you for going on and giving us new tunes.

[ohsherrie]

You think there is going to be a major altercation and I am going to sit on the sidelines? No way.

I like Sherrie..I like TNC. My view.

Sherrie, I told you in a PM, you need to fight the fight, if you are to engage. I know you are smart enough, but you are running here a little bit. You need to take some time, get your story and argument ready, and turn the guns on him. I am saying this as a fan of the board. TNC, is pretty good at this, and the reason why IMO, is that facts are on his side most of time. If you are going to join the Perry camp, you need to realize that you will do so knowing you don't have as many bullets in your arsenal.



Ok, carry on..Let's see some sparks fly.

No sparks here Dean, and let me explain why. It's not a matter of facts or proof of anything. There is nothing to prove or disprove. This started because TNC thought Steve made a mistake by singing at the rally and I disagreed. It was strictly a matter of opinon that degenerated into an attempt to degrade my integrity and credibility. It has nothing to do with any FACTS. I can and will argue facts with almost anyone over almost anything, when facts are applicable, but only until it becomes an insult slinging personal attack. When I get pushed into stooping that low I only diminish my own integrity and always regret it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It was strictly a matter of opinon that degenerated into an attempt to degrade my integrity and credibility.

More of the same "oh woe is me" stuff.
Go cry me a river you big dumb baby.
Don't allot blame on me that YOU can't defend your own untenable arguments.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I can and will argue facts with almost anyone over almost anything, when facts are applicable, but only until it becomes an insult slinging personal attack.

Total cop out.
You haven't debated facts even once.
You'll specifically call me out in my own thread saying...

OK, it's a new day and now I'm up for the argument.

Accordingly, I'll refute everything you say and then you'll cravenly head for the hills saying...

TNC, I'm just not up for arguing for the sake of the argument.

You can't debate, you have no facts and your over zealousness to always fall back on the victim card demonstrates this loud and clear.

[Abitaman]

Hey NC, who is that a picture of.................?-ERIC

[The_Noble_Cause]

Hey NC, who is that a picture of.................?-ERIC

Herbie Herbert aka The Infamous Sy Klopps.

[Abitaman]

OK. Had no idea who it was-ERIC

[Rockindeano]

OK. Had no idea who it was-ERIC

That is the "other" god, Eric. Not the real one, but the music, moneymaking sumbitch king. He can get anything done.

[Abitaman]

OK. Had no idea who it was-ERIC

That is the "other" god, Eric. Not the real one, but the music, moneymaking sumbitch king. He can get anything done.

Then Neal and the gang need to offer something to him, make peace or what ever, and get Herbie back!-ERIC

[Rockindeano]

He is Neals manager for SoulSirkUS.

Yes they DO need him back, and EVERYONE knows it. Goddammit, if HH was in place, we would be hearing the 3rd single from Generations on radio today! But, nooooooooooo, we are stuck with a pea-brained statue, masquerading as a manger.

Screw you Irving.

[Abitaman]

Irving is a good manager.............for the Eagles-ERIC

[fred_journeyman]

That was nice to read in many ways.

I'm bothered though when Steve says, regarding Neal that even "...though they're on the outs..." You know, they DON'T have to be on the outs at all. I know I'll get slammed for this (but who cares?), but Steve often seems unable or unwilling to move TOWARD people. Steve walked away years ago and pretty much became "unavailable" to the guys he was in a band with. For a while, no one could reach him at all, except through his manager/publicist.

At the Walk of Fame ceremony, I saw a picture of Neal with his arm around Perry's shoulder. It wasn't reciprocated by Perry and that could be because maybe Perry isn't the touchy/feely kind. It could also be because Perry has closed the door tightly too.

When Jon and Neal make any kind of comment about Perry, it is easily construed as negative by a certain segment of the Journey/Perry fandom. Maybe they SHOULD keep their mouths closed, but maybe there is a great deal of pain and anger that Perry was able to walk away from the whole Journey project like he did, without so much as a "Guys, I'll talk to you in a few months after I've had a chance to regroup." It was simply the invisible Steve who opted to not be connected and he really didn't give a damn what anyone else in the band thought or how it affected them or their livelihood.

When they wanted to pick up and move Journey forward, they asked Perry to join them. He said "no." He was not interested. He also apparently wanted them to do nothing with Journey either. Why shouldn't they want to go on with Journey? I'm glad they did and I wish Perry had decided to go on with them. They gave him the first right of refusal and he took it.

Why Neal and Steve are on the outs is known only between those two, but can they not realize just exactly how short life truly is? I'm willing to bet that even IF Neal wanted to talk with Steve and try to straighten things out, Steve would have none of it. I base this on his past behavior over situations that occured in the band.

I truly hope that one day, before these guys are old and gray and sitting in rocking chairs, that they come to grips with the differences in their relationship.

Fred

[Rockindeano]

Well said. However, forget rocking chairs for a moment.

What if something drastic were to happen; a car accident, a disease, a natural disaster that took one of these guys away. How would the other side feel? Would they go to a funeral? Just what level of spite is involved.

I noticed Perry wasn't at Neal's wedding..Yeah, big deal, a wedding, but if there was an ice breaker, that would be it.


I truly believe Neal HAS made the offer, the extension of the olive branch. I also believe Perry wanted to somehow prove his importanve in the band by seeing them decline without his precense. Well, they kind of did, but not due to him; they declined along with the genre and the entire music industry. So now Perry sees they are successful again, and that pisses him off. In order for him to come back, a) he would have to sing, which he can't now....b) he would have to swallow a lot of shame, guilt and pride. Could he do it?

[The_Noble_Cause]

That was nice to read in many ways.

I'm bothered though when Steve says, regarding Neal that even "...though they're on the outs..." You know, they DON'T have to be on the outs at all. I know I'll get slammed for this (but who cares?), but Steve often seems unable or unwilling to move TOWARD people. Steve walked away years ago and pretty much became "unavailable" to the guys he was in a band with. For a while, no one could reach him at all, except through his manager/publicist.

At the Walk of Fame ceremony, I saw a picture of Neal with his arm around Perry's shoulder. It wasn't reciprocated by Perry and that could be because maybe Perry isn't the touchy/feely kind. It could also be because Perry has closed the door tightly too.

When Jon and Neal make any kind of comment about Perry, it is easily construed as negative by a certain segment of the Journey/Perry fandom. Maybe they SHOULD keep their mouths closed, but maybe there is a great deal of pain and anger that Perry was able to walk away from the whole Journey project like he did, without so much as a "Guys, I'll talk to you in a few months after I've had a chance to regroup." It was simply the invisible Steve who opted to not be connected and he really didn't give a damn what anyone else in the band thought or how it affected them or their livelihood.

When they wanted to pick up and move Journey forward, they asked Perry to join them. He said "no." He was not interested. He also apparently wanted them to do nothing with Journey either. Why shouldn't they want to go on with Journey? I'm glad they did and I wish Perry had decided to go on with them. They gave him the first right of refusal and he took it.

Why Neal and Steve are on the outs is known only between those two, but can they not realize just exactly how short life truly is? I'm willing to bet that even IF Neal wanted to talk with Steve and try to straighten things out, Steve would have none of it. I base this on his past behavior over situations that occured in the band.

I truly hope that one day, before these guys are old and gray and sitting in rocking chairs, that they come to grips with the differences in their relationship.

Fred

WOW! Another great post by Fred. This guy needs to post more. He's good.

[ohsherrie]

What if something drastic were to happen; a car accident, a disease, a natural disaster that took one of these guys away. How would the other side feel? Would they go to a funeral? Just what level of spite is involved.

I've wondered about that. In the event of a presonal tragedy would the history outweigh the acrimony?

So now Perry sees they are successful again, and that pisses him off.

What makes you think he sees them as successful? I'm not being catty, I'm just saying that what they're doing may not be what he thinks of as successful.

In order for him to come back, a) he would have to sing, which he can't now....b) he would have to swallow a lot of shame, guilt and pride. Could he do it?

What makes you think he would want to come back? He talks nostalgically about his days with the band, but that doesn't mean he would want to live it again. Maybe he couldn't sing two or three shows a week, or sing the old stuff the same way he did 20 yrs ago, but that doesn't mean he can't sing. I don't know how much guilt or shame he feels, or if he has any more reason to than a lot of us do over things we may have done in our pasts. Pride, yeah, I think he has a lot of that.

[jrnyman28]

So now Perry sees they are successful again, and that pisses him off.

What makes you think he sees them as successful? I'm not being catty, I'm just saying that what they're doing may not be what he thinks of as successful.

Well, if he doesn't see Journey as being successful right now, then it is no wonder Perry does not attempt a "comeback". It took Journey 8 years of hard work to get to this level of success. I honestly think Perry would "get there" quicker than Journey, but it would still take work. And I do NOT believe he would gain any MORE success than Journey. If Perry thinks like this, then there is no realistic way he can entertain the idea of returning.

What makes you think he would want to come back?

He has a history of saying he thinks about it. As recently as the White Sox stuff, he has said that he might start writing and recording again.

Maybe he couldn't sing two or three shows a week, or sing the old stuff the same way he did 20 yrs ago, but that doesn't mean he can't sing.

True. But his performance at the rally says he can't sing at the moment. I am sure he could get into shape to do something though. Just not to the same standards he set for himself in the past.

Pride, yeah, I think he has a lot of that.

No denying that.

[ohsherrie]

Well, if he doesn't see Journey as being successful right now, then it is no wonder Perry does not attempt a "comeback". It took Journey 8 years of hard work to get to this level of success. I honestly think Perry would "get there" quicker than Journey, but it would still take work. And I do NOT believe he would gain any MORE success than Journey. If Perry thinks like this, then there is no realistic way he can entertain the idea of returning.

I don't pretend to know what he's thinking Dave, I was just throwing a possibility into the discussion. He's said he doesn't like the rigors of the traveling involved in touring, so I wonder if he would think touring on the old material without having much luck with new stuff as necessarily being successful. If the band is happy with that, then that's success to them and that's fine. I just wonder if that's what Steve would want.

He has a history of saying he thinks about it. As recently as the White Sox stuff, he has said that he might start writing and recording again.

I took what Dean said as meaning coming back to Journey. I don't think he wants to do that. I would truly love to have him record something again, but not with Journey. I don't think that would really make any of them happy.

True. But his performance at the rally says he can't sing at the moment. I am sure he could get into shape to do something though. Just not to the same standards he set for himself in the past.

I don't think it's fair at all to judge his abilities by his performance at the rally. That was in no way a planned and rehearsed performance, it was just him having fun with a bunch of guys. I don't think very many vocalists that weren't in shape for performing could have done much better. I wouldn't have expected him to sing it in the key it was originally done in even if it had been rehearsed and performed with a band. The range and key aren't that important to me though. I'm sure his standards now would be set around what he knows he can do well now, and he would do it beautifully.

Pride, yeah, I think he has a lot of that.

No denying that.

Well, don't they all.

[jrnyman28]

I don't think it's fair at all to judge his abilities by his performance at the rally.

I don't think "judging" is the right word. But it is also not based solely on his performance. He was also quoted as saying it would take him a few months to get back into some sort of shape.[/quote]

I don't think very many vocalists that weren't in shape for performing could have done much better.

That was my point. Right now he cannot sing very well...because he is not in singing shape. He sounded bad. I know it was 'spur of the moment' (more or less) and I know there are many circumstances involved with why he sounded bad. I do not fault him for it.

I wouldn't have expected him to sing it in the key it was originally done in even if it had been rehearsed and performed with a band.

That's good, because we know he cannot sing like that anymore. (Yes, we do. We have heard the FTLOSM Tour and TBF)

The range and key aren't that important to me though. I'm sure his standards now would be set around what he knows he can do well now, and he would do it beautifully.

I agree. He knows his limitations and he would adjust to them. He did for FTLOSM and TBF. The man adjusts very well and I am sure he would do well.