Fan says he talked to Neal and the band seems very happy.

by **EightyRock** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:46 am

NMT says: " I didn't intend to shortchange him as far as his writing contribution but it has remained the Journey sound without him on board.

Opinions, that's what it's all about! :lol:

by **EightyRock** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:09 am

FTJ says; " Oh, so now CAIN is the one who created Journey and if he leaves, the name should go with him? "

No, I didn't say CAIN created Journey, in any way, shape, or form. Let me rephrase. Journey, IN MY OPINION, was a name given to a band that had limited notariety outside of a certain group of fans, until the addition of Perry and Cain. Perry, Schon and Rolie had more success than the Journey PRIOR. When Cain joined and Schon, Perry and Cain became the writing team, the name Journey took on a life and meaning all its own. It became a household name, which is what Neal still wants to do on his own, even while still using the Journey name. If it didn't happen for him as an individual within the group, during its most successful and promoted era, why would he bother keeping the name if two of the three songwriters/performers are gone? Unless....he just wants to continue collecting a paycheck and playing stuff he wrote with Cain & Perry? Doesn't make sense to me, unless it is ONLY about money. I think it will continue to pigeon-hole him, not allow him the freedom to expand. Look at the response he gets just getting a singer who doesn't sound "Perry-esque" or "Journey-esque". You'd think he would want something fresh at this point in his life/career, but maybe not.

by **NealIsGod** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:17 am

Listen, are you the same person you were when you were first named? No, you grew and evolved.

When a company is named, do they have to change it when each employee leaves? Of course not.

When the Lions had Barry Sanders, he became the face of the franchise. Same with Payton in Chicago. Did those teams change their names when those players left? Of course not.

Why isn't a band afforded the same opportunity to change and evolve? Just because each of us has their favorite lineup doesn't mean the band should change their name as soon as one of those members is no longer in the band. Just be happy that Journey still exists in its current form, and enjoy the music. That's what it's all about, isn't it?

Stepping down from soapbox...

by **Rockindeano** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:34 am

The Band is bigger than any one member.

Sort of like, "The name on the front of your jersey is a helluva lot more important than the one on the back."

by **NealIsGod** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:35 am

Rockn'deano wrote:The Band is bigger than any one member.

Sort of like, "The name on the front of your jersey is a helluva lot more important than the one on the back."

Fuck, yeah. You got that right. :twisted:

by **fred_journeyman** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:43 am

EightyRock wrote:FTJ says; " Oh, so now CAIN is the one who created Journey and if he leaves, the name should go with him? "

No, I didn't say CAIN created Journey, in any way, shape, or form. Let me rephrase. Journey, IN MY OPINION, was a name given to a band that had limited notariety outside of a certain group of fans, until the addition of Perry and Cain. Perry, Schon and Rolie had more success than the Journey PRIOR. When Cain joined and Schon, Perry and Cain became the writing team, the name Journey took on a life and meaning all its own. It became a household name, which is what Neal still wants to do on his own, even while still using the Journey name. If it didn't happen for him as an individual within the group, during its most successful and promoted era, why would he bother keeping the name if two of the three songwriters/performers are gone? Unless....he just wants to continue collecting a paycheck and playing stuff he wrote with Cain & Perry? Doesn't make sense to me, unless it is ONLY about money. I think it will continue to pigeon-hole him, not allow him the freedom to expand. Look at the response he gets just getting a singer who doesn't sound "Perry-esque" or "Journey-esque". You'd think he would want something fresh at this point in his life/career, but maybe not.

Look, when people STATE something, there is also the IMPLIED meaning in what's being stated. In your ABOVE statement, while you deny that you STATED that Cain created Journey, it becomes moot because of the WAY you explain what you mean - that when CAIN joined Journey...it became a household name. You're splitting hairs.

By your reasoning, Chicago should no longer be called Chicago and they've had how many personnel changes? Some would argue that Cetera brought them greater fame and notoriety in later years and yet he left, but Chicago remains namely because the original founding members (at least two of them) are still there.

One could just as easily argue that without Journey, Cain would have been nothing, which is the same fate that Perry would have suffered, since he had tried and tried and tried again to get into the music biz, but the biz wasn't having him...until he hooked up with Journey.

As far as it being only about the money, I'd have to say that's why virtually ANY group or artist does what they do, unless they're content to play in a small venue in the Village. It's always about money, which is why Perry will never return to Journey, since he doesn't need anymore.

As long as Neal is in Journey, it should remain Journey since he was one of the founding members.

by **johnroxx** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:51 am

fred_journeyman wrote: By your reasoning, Chicago should no longer be called Chicago and they've had how many personnel changes? Some would argue that Cetera brought them greater fame and notoriety in later years and yet he left, but Chicago remains namely because the original founding members (at least two of them) are still there.

Four, actually...the entire horn section, and keyboardist/singer Robert Lamm.

But who's counting, eh?

;^)

by **EightyRock** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:28 am

"As long as Neal is in Journey, it should remain Journey since he was one of the founding members."

I would totally agree with him keeping the name Journey for himself, even if he was the ONLY member, IF he were the sole owner of the Journey name, just like owning his own business. He is not sole owner, therefore he shouldn't be entitled to treat Journey as if it were solely his, when what was accomplished was done by (mostly) 3 individuals, not just himself.
Look at the mess he just got the name Journey into recently. Or do you think he didn't know what Augeri was doing? :shock:

And I totally agree that Journey is bigger than any one person, Neal included. Only diehard fans could even tell you his name. What if Neal left and Cain decided to hire a new kick-yer-ass-around-the-block guitar player? Would that be OK? Hell no, and NOT because Neal was in Journey first or he is a great player, but because Cain shouldn't use the Journey name as if it ONLY belonged to him. That's all. No mystery or hidden meanings. We can disagree.

by **Citygirl** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:30 am

Journey is a joke.

If Jon leaves it's not gonna be Journey. It'll be Soul Sirkus with the Journey name. It's already going that way now that JSS is there.

And you think this wasn't planned all along?

by **fred_journeyman** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:32 am

johnroxx wrote:
fred_journeyman wrote: By your reasoning, Chicago should no longer be called Chicago and they've had how many personnel changes? Some would argue that Cetera brought them greater fame and notoriety in later years and yet he left, but Chicago remains namely because the original founding members (at least two of them) are still there.

Four, actually...the entire horn section, and keyboardist/singer Robert Lamm.

But who's counting, eh?

;^)

I remember seeing them (I think it was some TV special or video) when one of the horn players wasn't even playing his horn; he was playing keyboards!

by **fred_journeyman** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:38 am

EightyRock wrote:I would totally agree with him keeping the name Journey for himself, even if he was the ONLY member, IF he were the sole owner of the Journey name, just like owning his own business. He is not sole owner, therefore he shouldn't be entitled to treat Journey as if it were solely his, when what was accomplished was done by (mostly) 3 individuals, not just himself.

And Journey would not be the first band that wound up in court over who gets to use the name either. But the reality is that Rolie left. Perry left (or was left, you choose) and Neil is the only original member of the band left. Since he is still IN the band, it's very likely that the courts would award HIM the full use of the name Journey.

Look at the mess he just got the name Journey into recently. Or do you think he didn't know what Augeri was doing?

But THAT has nothing to do with what I'm saying about who Journey is made up of and who would has rights to the name. Certainly Perry can't start a "Journey" band.

And I totally agree that Journey is bigger than any one person, Neal included. Only diehard fans could even tell you his name.

That, still in my opinion, has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

What if Neal left and Cain decided to hire a new kick-yer-ass-around-the-block guitar player? Would that be OK? Hell no, and NOT because Neal was in Journey first or he is a great player, but because Cain shouldn't use the Journey name as if it ONLY belonged to him.

But since Journey is a corporation, it's not as simple and as slick as you think it is. Who are the officers in the corporation? If Schon left, I think Journey would effectively stop. If Schon gave his legal permission for the band to continue on, that would be another thing.

That's all. No mystery or hidden meanings. We can disagree.

That we can.

by **4_Fox_Sake** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:40 am

Rockn'deano wrote:
Lula wrote:What makes you say Jon has lost his inspiration to write, Monker?

He has, trust me. Dude is shot, in the ass. seeya friga.

Get the fuck outta here.

Now I know who you remind me of....Andrew Dice Clay. Dude was rude and crude but funny as hell.
:lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Dice_Clay

by **fred_journeyman** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:41 am

Les wrote:And you think this wasn't planned all along?

In my opinion, you give too much credit to Schon. I doubt that this was "planned." I think Schon just wants Journey to continue. Bands change personnel. Their sound changes over the years.

Chicago has already been mentioned. They still play, yet have had numerous personnel changes and sound changes over the years.

Metallica - the same deal - for both categories. Judas Priest? Same thing. Styx? We know about them. Three Dog Night? Same deal. Bands change and evolve. Some fans like it; some don't.

by **Red13JoePa** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:16 am

NealIsGod wrote:
EightyRock wrote:What spin do you think Cain will put on his exit? The family? Don't you think he was embarrassed when everybody found out about tape-gate? Any musician of their stature and worth a damn would have crawled in a hole and pulled the hole in with him after that. Not Neal...he just acts like it didn't happen, or at least he has rid himself of the problem.(Augeri) I don't think he should have called it Journey when Perry left, but he did. I don't think he should call it Journey if Cain leaves, but he will. He has no common sense. One hell of a guitar player and overall musician, but a real tool.

Tool? The man is a workaholic. Nothing slows him down. He doesn't let one man hold the band hostage. Perry's the tool, dude. Neal is the glue that holds Journey together.

Agreed, bro. With one caveat that Cain's his partner. Those 2 are the rocks right now and if what Deano and Monker say about JC's status is true then we have problems. I don't know if I doubt it or just want to doubt it but something tells me we're going on w/ the current members ncluding Cain and either JSS or SA for next album. If nothing else, cyncially speaking, this is a monster touring band and lots of coin's on the table to be had year after year.

by **Eric** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:31 am

Aw Deano...I was all fired up and then you had to quote Herbie and now I'm all in tears

by **JrnySuxBalls** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:35 am

Les wrote:If Jon leaves it's not gonna be Journey. It'll be Soul Sirkus with the Journey name. It's already going that way now that JSS is there.

Cool!

by **Marabelle** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:44 am

Les wrote:

If Jon leaves it's not gonna be Journey. It'll be Soul Sirkus with the Journey name. It's already going that way now that JSS is there.

Oh My Gawd...Tall Stories with Steve Augeri! Didn't he do the same thing? That's what is coming to mind when you said that! But I doubt it; I think it'll still be Journey it just seems to hard to give that up for all the old timers who love those songs from 20 years ago. But JSS seems to be able do an admirable job to placate those who want to still cling to the past and those who clearly want to move into the future.

by **Tracker** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:50 pm

Les wrote:
If Jon leaves it's not gonna be Journey. It'll be Soul Sirkus with the Journey name. It's already going that way now that JSS is there.

And you think this wasn't planned all along?

My thoughts exactly.

by **Tracker** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:11 pm

NealIsGod wrote:
Tracker wrote:Sounds like Neal wants the Soul Sirkus sound but use the Journey name...Jon's musical style is different...the stone not only cracked - it's been split wide open. And Neal is more stupid than I thought. But then again...I never cared for Neal anyway - dumbass.

You can't be a Journey fan and not care for Neal. He IS Journey. Dumbass.

Never cared for Santana or Journey before Steve Perry. After Perry came on board and changed the sound of Journey - that's when I started listening to Journey. All Neal does is play guitar. Anyhoo - if that makes me a dumbass - I'll wear the title proudly. :lol:

by **bionic** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:46 am

Rockn'deano wrote:
cetera wrote:
Rockn'deano wrote:
Lula wrote:What makes you say Jon has lost his inspiration to write, Monker?

He has, trust me. Dude is shot, in the ass. seeya friga.

Get the fuck outta here.

Deano, do you reckon Cain is gonna leave? I've just got a feeling he is.....

Yes, I do think he is leaving.

He has looked like he didn't want to be on stage at Manchester and i have heard over in the states as well, he should go write with Perry again that would be something,then bring back Rolie in to Journey now,Greg is a far better singer than Cain

by **bionic** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:49 am

EightyRock wrote:What spin do you think Cain will put on his exit? The family? Don't you think he was embarrassed when everybody found out about tape-gate? Any musician of their stature and worth a damn would have crawled in a hole and pulled the hole in with him after that. Not Neal...he just acts like it didn't happen, or at least he has rid himself of the problem.(Augeri) I don't think he should have called it Journey when Perry left, but he did. I don't think he should call it Journey if Cain leaves, but he will. He has no common sense. One hell of a guitar player and overall musician, but a real tool.

Spot on i agree

Neal 'Has to Pay the Bills' as he said in behind the music i think Cain must be embarrassed they all should be :cry:

by **Citygirl** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:51 am

I'll say it again. Journey is turning into a joke.

by **A Fire Inside** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:59 am

Les wrote:I'll say it again. Journey is turning into a joke.

When were they NOT, at least in the eyes of the media? This is why I question the "legacy" BS people throw around... Journey was never highly respected.

by *Laura » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:15 am

A Fire Inside wrote:
Les wrote:I'll say it again. Journey is turning into a joke.

When were they NOT, at least in the eyes of the media? This is why I question the "legacy" BS people throw around... Journey was never highly respected.

AFI,you must be joking,right? You question Journey's legacy because of a few bitter journalists and a few bad reviews throughout the years?
Can you name those journalists?...Right.They are some faceless/nameless reporters/reviewers.No one remembers them.But Journey did something they will never be able to accomplish:timeless music.

Like they say...Millions of fans can't be wrong.

by **Jeremey** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:13 am

Guys, listen up: Journey is a brand. It's not any one person. It's not any personality, contribution, or lack thereof. Journey is a brand name. It evokes a specific sound, a specific type of music. If one person in Journey kept the name Journey and started releasing country western music, it would be the same as Coke releasing a malt liquor beverage. Don't crack the brand, I think is what someone meant at one point.

by **Red13JoePa** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:57 am

mmmmmmm but not all people in this band are equal. It would be ridiculous w/out Cain and even more so w/out Schon.

by **EightyRock** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:29 am

Jeremey wrote:Guys, listen up: Journey is a brand. It's not any one person. It's not any personality, contribution, or lack thereof. Journey is a brand name. It evokes a specific sound, a specific type of music. If one person in Journey kept the name Journey and started releasing country western music, it would be the same as Coke releasing a malt liquor beverage. Don't crack the brand, I think is what someone meant at one point.

That someone was probably me. If I would have posted don't crack the brand, stone or whatever, I would have been labeled like some Perry fanatic, so I took a roundabout route to my point. I'm glad you got what I was trying to convey, if it was my post on which you commented.

by **Jeremey** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:36 pm

EightyRock wrote:
Jeremey wrote:Guys, listen up: Journey is a brand. It's not any one person. It's not any personality, contribution, or lack thereof. Journey is a brand name. It evokes a specific sound, a specific type of music. If one person in Journey kept the name Journey and started releasing country western music, it would be the same as Coke releasing a malt liquor beverage. Don't crack the brand, I think is what someone meant at one point.

That someone was probably me. If I would have posted don't crack the brand, stone or whatever, I would have been labeled like some Perry fanatic, so I took a roundabout route to my point. I'm glad you got what I was trying to convey, if it was my post on which you commented.

Hey man - I actually was referring to Perry's original comment in Behind The Music. I think you got what Perry was trying to convey, maybe in hindsight folks that were critical of that statement can appreciate it a bit more by taking Perry's personality out of the equation and just trying to understand what he was saying about the b[r]and...

by **larryfromnextdoor** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:39 pm

jeremey ,, any more recent audio/video that u can put up???

Jeremey wrote:
EightyRock wrote:
Jeremey wrote:Guys, listen up: Journey is a brand. It's not any one person. It's not any personality, contribution, or lack thereof. Journey is a brand name. It evokes a specific sound, a specific type of music. If one person in Journey kept the name Journey and started releasing country western music, it would be the same as Coke releasing a malt liquor beverage. Don't crack the brand, I think is what someone meant at one point.

That someone was probably me. If I would have posted don't crack the brand, stone or whatever, I would have been labeled like some Perry fanatic, so I took a roundabout route to my point. I'm glad you got what I was trying to convey, if it was my post on which you commented.

Hey man - I actually was referring to Perry's original comment in Behind The Music. I think you got what Perry was trying to convey, maybe in hindsight folks that were critical of that statement can appreciate it a bit more by taking Perry's personality out of the equation and just trying to understand what he was saying about the b[r]and...

by **Jeremey** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:48 pm

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:jeremey ,, any more recent audio/video that u can put up???

Hey man, nothing recent - Our corporate show in Orlando was filmed for the video screens behind the show, and I talked to the production manager about getting a copy of that but it may be several weeks before I get anything! Here's some pics from the show (last Tuesday's) here:

FRONTIERS at mro world 2006

MR

Fan says he talked to Neal and the band seems very happy.

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