enough Dirty Dozen - let's hear the LEGACY

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Time to review JOURNEY's legacy. Every artist has their signature works. JOURNEY's no different. I've compiled what I think are their legacy tunes and then grouped them chronologically.

I think the legacy tunes MUST remain in concert rotation. Rotation is the key word. Personally, I don't want to hear all of them. I want to be surprised. I also want to be left wanting more.

WITS
Lights/Stay Awhile
LTS
AWYWI

DSB
Open Arms
SW
Faithfully

IBAWY
BGTY
WYLAW

Higher Place
All The Way
WAFTE
FITH
PIYH

To rotate randomly select 2 songs from each group for a total of 8. That leaves plenty of room to promote new material around 8 legacy highlights.

So let's say with the new album they want to play 3-5 songs from it. Including the legacy tunes this would equal an 11-13 song setlist. I think this is "just right" for most of their venues. Should they want to have extended sets then simply add fan favorites such as Stone In Love, Mother, Father, La Raza Del Sol, etc.

[Saint John]

Putting 5 songs from the Augeri-era totally destroyed 2 things:
1) Your argument
2) Your credibility

I DO understand what you're saying, though. It does have SOME merit. DSB, Faithfully AND Separate Ways will ALWAYS be played at EVERY show, though. I don't see that ever changing.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Putting 5 songs from the Augeri-era totally destroyed 2 things:
1) Your argument
2) Your credibility

There are 12 songs from the Perry era which I would argue are the ones in heavy rotation on the radio then and now.

The 5 Augeri era songs are arguably the fan favorites. I think with the Perry era you have to look at the radio legacy and with the Augeri era you need to consider the fan legacy.

It seems to me that's entirely reasonable.

[Mark H]

Putting 5 songs from the Augeri-era totally destroyed 2 things:
1) Your argument
2) Your credibility

I DO understand what you're saying, though. It does have SOME merit. DSB, Faithfully AND Separate Ways will ALWAYS be played at EVERY show, though. I don't see that ever changing.

Thats fine by me, although IMO they could lose some pre-Escape material (I would be happy to lose Lights and LTS for good) in return for 3 or 4 of the newer tracks, Place in your heart, Loved by you, Signs of life and All the Way, would do it for me. Maybe with some more obscure older stuff such as Winds of March and Of a Lifetime

Anyway, with a rumoured 2 1/2 hour set for Europe I'm sure we'll get some surprises.

[Saint John]

Putting 5 songs from the Augeri-era totally destroyed 2 things:
1) Your argument
2) Your credibility

There are 11 songs from the Perry era which I would argue are the ones in heavy rotation on the radio then and now.

The 5 Augeri era songs are arguably the fan favorites. I think with the Perry era you have to look at the radio legacy and with the Augeri era you need to consider the fan legacy.

It seems to me that's entirely reasonable.

Dude, there is NO Augeri era radio OR fan legacy. Higher Place would be the closest, and it's recognized by MAYBE 25% of the crowd. Hardly a staple. I think you'll see Augeri-era music systematically eliminated over the next tour. It serves NO purpose. It wasn't part of radio rotation and it certainly wasn't a part of a gold or platinum selling album. Besides, the OVERWHELMING majority of concert goers don't want to hear any Augeri-era music. Most would rather have "Feeling That Way/Anytime" "Message Of Love" "IBAWY" or any other of a multitude of Perry-era songs be re-inserted. Besides, they'll probably play the "Dirty Dozen" and 3 or 4 new songs. Augeri-era music will be left out....just like when history writes Journey's leagcy as it pertains to music.

[JeremyP]

Time to review JOURNEY's legacy. Every artist has their signature works. JOURNEY's no different. I've compiled what I think are their legacy tunes and then grouped them chronologically.

I think the legacy tunes MUST remain in concert rotation. Rotation is the key word. Personally, I don't want to hear all of them. I want to be surprised. I also want to be left wanting more.

WITS
Lights/Stay Awhile
LTS
AWYWI

DSB
Open Arms
SW
Faithfully

IBAWY
BGTY
WYLAW

Higher Place
All The Way
WAFTE
FITH
PIYH

To rotate randomly select 2 songs from each group for a total of 8. That leaves plenty of room to promote new material around 8 legacy highlights.

So let's say with the new album they want to play 3-5 songs from it. Including the legacy tunes this would equal an 11-13 song setlist. I think this is "just right" for most of their venues. Should they want to have extended sets then simply add fan favorites such as Stone In Love, Mother, Father, La Raza Del Sol, etc.

That's a great idea. I think that would be really cool.

[whocares]

goin' with st. john with this one, NO Augeri songs deserve to be played as there weren't any REAL hits, like the singer before had.

LTS won' go, because that gets the guys and gals ready for later that night, if ya catch my drift. The women and men can both get into this one. I could go without DSB or WCN. I'd love to hear stuff like Happy to give or more TBF stuff, and of course NEW Journey featuring Jeff songs.

[ohsherrie]

St John has it right. To the majority of the audience at the shows the Augeri era stuff is going to be heard as new material rather than legacy. Whatever new material they put into a show needs to be NEW material that can help them move forward.

[JeremyP]

Except for "When You Love A Woman", most of the TBF stuff would be thought of as "new stuff" by most of the audience.

[ohsherrie]

Except for "When You Love A Woman", most of the TBF stuff would be thought of as "new stuff" by most of the audience.

You're right, but more of the audience would recogize it than the Augeri era stuff because a lot more people bought the CD.

[knox]

Augeri Era should be like a fog at sea - fade away into oblivion. No radio play, no album sales, nothing memorable at all. Higher Place is a good song, but that's about it. ALL THE WAY? That song is almost as bad as Butterfly. All the cheese, just a bit more musical substance. That is not a compliment, by the way.

I, too, could do without Lights. I would love to see Good Morning Girl replace Lights as the prelude to Stay Awhile.

I want to hear Jeff sing Too Late!

[conversationpc]

Augeri Era should be like a fog at sea - fade away into oblivion. No radio play, no album sales, nothing memorable at all. Higher Place is a good song, but that's about it. ALL THE WAY? That song is almost as bad as Butterfly. All the cheese, just a bit more musical substance. That is not a compliment, by the way.

There are several Augeri-era songs that I like just as well as the Perry-era...

• Remember Me
• Higher Place
• Livin' to Do (my favorite Augeri-era track)
• World Gone Wild
• To Be Alive Again
• Walking Away From the Edge
• Faith in the Heartland

[squirt1]

I didn't like any of the songs during those 8 yrs. Remember Me maybe. It is like there writing sailed off somewhere. Who said Oblivion? I wrote that as a suggestion for the title of their next album awhile back,which never materialized. Maybe Jeff can add some new sound and direction.

[Rick]

Augeri Era should be like a fog at sea - fade away into oblivion. No radio play, no album sales, nothing memorable at all. Higher Place is a good song, but that's about it. ALL THE WAY? That song is almost as bad as Butterfly. All the cheese, just a bit more musical substance. That is not a compliment, by the way.

There are several Augeri-era songs that I like just as well as the Perry-era...

• Remember Me
• Higher Place
• Livin' to Do (my favorite Augeri-era track)
• World Gone Wild
• To Be Alive Again
• Walking Away From the Edge
• Faith in the Heartland

Yessir, I think Higher Place is really good, Faith in the Heartland as well. Livin' to Do reminds me of the Eagles. Great song.

[WalrusOct9]

I think doing one or two Augeri songs during a show would be a nice gesture...he was in the band for 8 years and sang for 6 of them. "Higher Place," "Faith In The Heartland," "Never Too Late," or "To Be Alive Again" would stand up against all the earlier stuff in a live set. I liked both albums, and while they may not be as memorable as the classic LP's, it was still better than no new Journey music at all. It's annoying when bands release new material and then completely ignore it in their live sets.

[cdjssfan]

Hopefully with the sets over here in the UK being 2 and a half hours long I would expect them to play 2-4 songs from the Augeri era as I think that Arrival and Generations didn't do too badly over here.
When FITH was played at the Playhouse in Edinburgh last year it got a great reception and I would expect it to be played along with Higher Place and possibly one of Deen's 2 tracks from Generations.

I wouldn't rule out us hearing a new track either (though I doubt it) Schon, Cain and Soto won't have just sat on their arses after shows/between shows doing nothing; I would think they've probably got a few tracks written.

The "Dirty Dozen" will no doubt make up half the set over here, but I'd expect a few surprises too.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

I think doing one or two Augeri songs during a show would be a nice gesture...he was in the band for 8 years and sang for 6 of them. "Higher Place," "Faith In The Heartland," "Never Too Late," or "To Be Alive Again" would stand up against all the earlier stuff in a live set. I liked both albums, and while they may not be as memorable as the classic LP's, it was still better than no new Journey music at all. It's annoying when bands release new material and then completely ignore it in their live sets.

I haven't read all of the responses yet but I had to stop here because you GET IT.

The suggestion is exactly what you said: 1-2 out of the total listed. People are havnig strokes at the though of THAT...?

Holy Crap, people! Take some PILLS! Are you being objective or are you letting your SA angst come shining through?

The SA songs I listed are LEGACY whether you like it or not. If you spend any time at all on JOURNEY forums you'll know it's accurate. For example, the fans flat out LOVE WAFTE. I could've argued Butterfly as there is a large group that admire that song (myself included) however it doesn't have mass fan appeal.

Again, the SA years need to be considered with a different criteria. The legacy tunes from the SP era are based off radio popularity. The SA era tunes can HAVE to be based off fan favorites. As pointed out they were neither radio hits nor were they played with any regularity in concert. That leaves us with fan opinion.

I think we have to consider the whole legacy. Even the "holy trinity" of the first 3 releases which I have NOT excluded here. I didn't add any of the songs from these albums into the rotation as they're perhaps disjointed from the whole of the catalog and are probably best played when the whim or the occassion presents itself. I would think these are the legacy tunes from those works:

Of A Lifetime
Kohoutek

I'm Gonna Leave You
LITF

Nickel & Dime

These could be used to give JSS a break as 2 are instrumental and for the other 3 Jon Cain or Neal can sing lead.

The idea here is to recognize the LEGACY and MOVE ON. As it has been JOURNEY has spent the last 9 years wallowing in WHAT WAS.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

LTS won' go, because that gets the guys and gals ready for later that night, if ya catch my drift.

That's interesting because the lyrics tell a story about lying and cheating lovers!

So you're saying that LTS gets everyone primed to go cheat on their partners...?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Augeri Era should be like a fog at sea - fade away into oblivion. No radio play, no album sales, nothing memorable at all. Higher Place is a good song, but that's about it. ALL THE WAY? That song is almost as bad as Butterfly. All the cheese, just a bit more musical substance. That is not a compliment, by the way.

There are several Augeri-era songs that I like just as well as the Perry-era...

• Remember Me
• Higher Place
• Livin' to Do (my favorite Augeri-era track)
• World Gone Wild
• To Be Alive Again
• Walking Away From the Edge
• Faith in the Heartland

LTD is my favorite as well. I place it in my "PARAGON" collection as it says "JOURNEY" in every way.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Augeri Era should be like a fog at sea - fade away into oblivion. No radio play, no album sales, nothing memorable at all. Higher Place is a good song, but that's about it. ALL THE WAY? That song is almost as bad as Butterfly. All the cheese, just a bit more musical substance. That is not a compliment, by the way.

There are several Augeri-era songs that I like just as well as the Perry-era...

• Remember Me
• Higher Place
• Livin' to Do (my favorite Augeri-era track)
• World Gone Wild
• To Be Alive Again
• Walking Away From the Edge
• Faith in the Heartland

Yessir, I think Higher Place is really good, Faith in the Heartland as well. Livin' to Do reminds me of the Eagles. Great song.

Now that you mention that I kind of hear the Eagles in there, too!

[AR]

As much as I like some of the music with Augeri (particularly tracks on "Arrival") I can't see any of it being played live at this point. MAYBE 1 song at the most and that would probably be Faith in the Heartland or something else off Generations.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to hear Signs of Life, Higher Place, To Be Alive Again, etc. However, as someone mentioned previously, those songs would be perceived as "new" by a majority of the audience. The band would be better served playing more off of a future album with Jeff.

[zino]

I think the dirty dozen is Journey..thats what the average fan wants too hear. The people on this board only make up a small % of the crowd. The general public sees or hears that Journey is coming in concert and what songs would they think of, Faithfully, Open Arms, DSB, LTS, Seperate Ways, Lights, WITS. Some people will remember WYLAW which I think should be played alot more. The hardcore fans like us want more, so too get more we need longer sets.

Some of the songs in the dirty dozen can be left out for the average fan Escape, ATL (which are two of my faves), liked the addition of IBAWY. If Journey was too stray too far away from the dirty dozen they would not be playing to a big part of the crowd. They will need a longer set with the dozen plus some new stuff, too get the casual fan to buy the new CD.

One or two Augeri era tunes would be good FITH or HP..something a casual fan might of heard before at another show. Would like to hear maybe another ROR tune.

Just my 2 ccents worth

[whocares]

LTS won' go, because that gets the guys and gals ready for later that night, if ya catch my drift.

That's interesting because the lyrics tell a story about lying and cheating lovers!

So you're saying that LTS gets everyone primed to go cheat on their partners...?

Where in my post did I say that it primed people for cheating? Have you ever paid attention to other people in the audience nd how they get into the beat/music, the sexiness of the song? Do you even know what the song does to some women?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

LTS won' go, because that gets the guys and gals ready for later that night, if ya catch my drift.

That's interesting because the lyrics tell a story about lying and cheating lovers!

So you're saying that LTS gets everyone primed to go cheat on their partners...?

Where in my post did I say that it primed people for cheating? Have you ever paid attention to other people in the audience nd how they get into the beat/music, the sexiness of the song? Do you even know what the song does to some women?

I'm suggesting that you have no idea what the song is about. The fact that it does somehow "get the guys and girls ready" indicates that many are clueless. The whole Na, Na, Na thing is perhaps a rockers variation on the playground theme of sticking out one's tongue NOT for kissing but to mock your cheating partner who got a taste of theor own medicine from their cheating partner!

Good grief.

With a nic like "whocares" I can't imagine why you do one way or the other.

[ohsherrie]

Where in my post did I say that it primed people for cheating? Have you ever paid attention to other people in the audience nd how they get into the beat/music, the sexiness of the song? Do you even know what the song does to some women?

I know exactly what you're saying Whocares. It's the sexy, sultry sound and feeling of the song and has nothing to do with the meaning of the lyrics.

[AR]

The only thing LTS makes me feel is a desire to run to get a beer or go to the bathroom. Just not a favorite of mine.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Where in my post did I say that it primed people for cheating? Have you ever paid attention to other people in the audience nd how they get into the beat/music, the sexiness of the song? Do you even know what the song does to some women?

I know exactly what you're saying Whocares. It's the sexy, sultry sound and feeling of the song and has nothing to do with the meaning of the lyrics.

There's absolutely NOTHING sexy about that song. It's all about ANGST.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

The only thing LTS makes me feel is a desire to run to get a beer or go to the bathroom. Just not a favorite of mine.

It's the only pure audience participation song they have. It's a good encore or closer.

[AR]

The only thing LTS makes me feel is a desire to run to get a beer or go to the bathroom. Just not a favorite of mine.

It's the only pure audience participation song they have. It's a good encore or closer.

I grant you that on the audience participation thing, it does work from that perspective. Really I can't even pinpoint what it is about that song that just I don't like, but I just never have dug it.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

The only thing LTS makes me feel is a desire to run to get a beer or go to the bathroom. Just not a favorite of mine.

It's the only pure audience participation song they have. It's a good encore or closer.

I grant you that on the audience participation thing, it does work from that perspective. Really I can't even pinpoint what it is about that song that just I don't like, but I just never have dug it.

It's funny because as a kid I was a HUGE Sam Cooke fan and I remember getting hooked on JOURNEY with WITS because I thought SP had Sam Cooke qualities - and then some. When I heard LTS I was hooked further despite the fact that I really didn't like the song! I just dug SP's Cooke inflections.

Before JSS became JOURNEY's singer he was answering questions on BT and noted to me that the lyrics and vocal inflections of "You make me weep..." were perhaps "lifted" from one of Sam Cooke's songs - can you name the title? I felt STUPID because I never made the connection between the two songs but I suspect that somewhere subconsciously I did and maybe that's why I dug the song. To this day I don't find any redeeming qualities about it other than SP's Cooke-isms.