OT: Official Patriots vs. Colts Thread...

[Red13JoePa]

Da Bears get UVA's Thomas Jones going and they are going to be a handful.

And they proved yesterday that early lack of success does not deter them from trying to establish that run.


What the hell the choice do they have given the situation under center I guess?

[Saint John]

Da Bears get UVA's Thomas Jones going and they are going to be a handful.

And they proved yesterday that early lack of success does not deter them from trying to establish that run.


What the hell the choice do they have given the situation under center I guess?

Great analysis. I feel they'll have to run the ball 40 times again and have close to 175-200 yards to win the game. Turnovers, as usual though, will be paramount. The Bears have to win THAT battle by 2 or more. Or just have zero turnovers again.

[NealIsGod]

Wow, Parcells just retired. What do you Cowboys fans think of that?

[Saint John]

Wow, Parcells just retired. What do you Cowboys fans think of that?

He retired long ago. Came back with about a quarter of the fire and intensity that made him a great coach. I'll bet he told Jerry Jones if T.O. came back he was out. Jones probably countered with "Bye."

[NealIsGod]

Wow, Parcells just retired. What do you Cowboys fans think of that?

He retired long ago. Came back with about a quarter of the fire and intensity that made him a great coach. I'll bet he told Jerry Jones if T.O. came back he was out. Jones probably countered with "Bye."

No, I don't think Bill would back down from any player. That last game was a hard way to go out. I didn't see this coming.

[Enigma869]

Wow, Parcells just retired.

Again???? Let's see...He retired from the Giants, Patriots, Jets, and now the Cowboys!!!! Bill Parcells has turned himself into a laughing stock!!!!


John from Boston

[Saint John]

Wow, Parcells just retired. What do you Cowboys fans think of that?

He retired long ago. Came back with about a quarter of the fire and intensity that made him a great coach. I'll bet he told Jerry Jones if T.O. came back he was out. Jones probably countered with "Bye."

No, I don't think Bill would back down from any player. That last game was a hard way to go out. I didn't see this coming.

IF what I said DID happen, he backed away from a situation not a player. I agree that he would never back down from a player, but at this point in his life he probably wants to JUST coach....not babysit and be a part of a circus.

[NealIsGod]

Wow, Parcells just retired. What do you Cowboys fans think of that?

He retired long ago. Came back with about a quarter of the fire and intensity that made him a great coach. I'll bet he told Jerry Jones if T.O. came back he was out. Jones probably countered with "Bye."

No, I don't think Bill would back down from any player. That last game was a hard way to go out. I didn't see this coming.

IF what I said DID happen, he backed away from a situation not a player. I agree that he would never back down from a player, but at this point in his life he probably wants to JUST coach....not babysit and be a part of a circus.

OK, I getcha now.

[conversationpc]

Maybe Parcells finally figured out that the owner is as much of a problem in Dallas as some of the players are. Don't blame him a bit.

As for the Super Bowl...Go Colts!!!

I think it's pretty cool that it's an all midwest game. This'll be the Colts 3rd Super Bowl and the second for the Bears.

[NealIsGod]

Maybe Parcells finally figured out that the owner is as much of a problem in Dallas as some of the players are. Don't blame him a bit.

As for the Super Bowl...Go Colts!!!

I think it's pretty cool that it's an all midwest game. This'll be the Colts 3rd Super Bowl and the second for the Bears.

It's the Indianapolis Colts' FIRST Super Bowl. They have only been around since 1984.

[chickpea]

We're longtime Peyton fans here so it will be nice to see him have his moment in the sun.

[conversationpc]

Maybe Parcells finally figured out that the owner is as much of a problem in Dallas as some of the players are. Don't blame him a bit.

As for the Super Bowl...Go Colts!!!

I think it's pretty cool that it's an all midwest game. This'll be the Colts 3rd Super Bowl and the second for the Bears.

It's the Indianapolis Colts' FIRST Super Bowl. They have only been around since 1984.

I know that but it's the 3rd for the entire franchise, whether or not you Baltimore folks want to admit.

Besides that, I agree with you guys that the Colts should never have left Baltimore in the first place. The Irsays are bunch of idiots.

[Red13JoePa]

Da Bears get UVA's Thomas Jones going and they are going to be a handful.

And they proved yesterday that early lack of success does not deter them from trying to establish that run.


What the hell the choice do they have given the situation under center I guess?

Great analysis. I feel they'll have to run the ball 40 times again and have close to 175-200 yards to win the game. Turnovers, as usual though, will be paramount. The Bears have to win THAT battle by 2 or more. Or just have zero turnovers again.

I heard Da Coach on radio recently talking about teams' propensity to abandon the run too quick. His theory was if it doesn't work right away, stick with it and later on the attrition will pay off. Of course, you gotta find a way to get a few first downs and keep the game close in the meantime if it's not working right off the bat but the best part was he said if a team wants to "put 8-in-the-box", I'm putting 9 in my box and STILL going to run the ball at them.
Imagaine that.

[Enigma869]

I know Payton Manning deserves a ring, but so does Brian Urlacher.

What? Please explain to me, how anyone, in any sport deserves a ring. Rings are won, not given away. You don't win a ring, then you don't deserve a ring.

Yeah, but it's a shame certain players never had the teams around them to accomplish that. Like Marino, Kelly, Moon...

Hmmmmmm....This is VERY flawed reasoning, NIG!!!!! Marino and Kelly BOTH had teams around them to win it all...They simply couldn't win the game, when they had to! I can tell you as someone who saw all FOUR Buffalo Super Bowls and Marino's entire career that ALL of those teams had more talent than the Patriots...it's not even close!!! No team goes to the Super Bowl four times, out of dumb luck!!!! If you're good enough to get there, you're good enough to win!!!! Football is the ULTIMATE team game, and the Patriots proved this, each year they won the Super Bowl! No team with the likes of Antwoin Smith as their running back, and David Givens and Deion Branch as their receivers should be winning Super Bowls!

John from Boston

[NealIsGod]

I know Payton Manning deserves a ring, but so does Brian Urlacher.

What? Please explain to me, how anyone, in any sport deserves a ring. Rings are won, not given away. You don't win a ring, then you don't deserve a ring.

Yeah, but it's a shame certain players never had the teams around them to accomplish that. Like Marino, Kelly, Moon...

Hmmmmmm....This is VERY flawed reasoning, NIG!!!!! Marino and Kelly BOTH had teams around them to win it all...They simply couldn't win the game, when they had to! I can tell you as someone who saw all FOUR Buffalo Super Bowls and Marino's entire career that ALL of those teams had more talent than the Patriots...it's not even close!!! No team goes to the Super Bowl four times, out of dumb luck!!!! If you're good enough to get there, you're good enough to win!!!! Football is the ULTIMATE team game, and the Patriots proved this, each year they won the Super Bowl! No team with the likes of Antwoin Smith as their running back, and David Givens and Deion Branch as their receivers should be winning Super Bowls!

John from Boston

I bolded the part of your rebuttal that proves my point.

[lights1961]

Manning was just stellar in the 2nd half! But I bet if there were 2 minutes left instead of 1.20 or whatever it was---Brady might have pulled off one amazing drive!! an instant classic!!! like the Broncos-Browns, Cowboys-49ers, Steelers-Radiers, Packers Cowboys.

Rick

[Enigma869]

I bolded the part of your rebuttal that proves my point.

Sorry NIG...That doesn't prove your point, in my opinion. Your comment about those guys never having the team around them was about talent, and comment was that those teams were FAR more talented (by a long shot!)than any of the three Patriots teams that won it all!!!! The only point I was making is that the reason Kelly and Marino didn't win wasn't a deficit of talent...it was simply those guys not getting the job done!!!

John from Boston

[NealIsGod]

I bolded the part of your rebuttal that proves my point.

Sorry NIG...That doesn't prove your point, in my opinion. Your comment about those guys never having the team around them was about talent, and comment was that those teams were FAR more talented (by a long shot!)than any of the three Patriots teams that won it all!!!! The only point I was making is that the reason Kelly and Marino didn't win wasn't a deficit of talent...it was simply those guys not getting the job done!!!

John from Boston

Sure it does. Those QBs were on teams that didn't have what it takes to win a SB, whether it be talent, chemistry, etc. I never used the world "talent". You did.

[jrnychick]

I know Payton Manning deserves a ring, but so does Brian Urlacher.

What? Please explain to me, how anyone, in any sport deserves a ring. Rings are won, not given away. You don't win a ring, then you don't deserve a ring.

I have heard many people say that Manning is such a great quarterback that he "deserves" to win a superbowl. I think that Urlacher is just as great a talent at his position, and is just as valuable to his team, so he "deserves" it as much as Manning. I just know that we're going to hear all kinds of sentimental BS about Manning finally having his shot at that ring, and Urlacher will be overlooked. I don't mean to imply that the ring should be handed to anyone.

[conversationpc]

I bolded the part of your rebuttal that proves my point.

Sorry NIG...That doesn't prove your point, in my opinion. Your comment about those guys never having the team around them was about talent, and comment was that those teams were FAR more talented (by a long shot!)than any of the three Patriots teams that won it all!!!! The only point I was making is that the reason Kelly and Marino didn't win wasn't a deficit of talent...it was simply those guys not getting the job done!!!

John from Boston

Sure it does. Those QBs were on teams that didn't have what it takes to win a SB, whether it be talent, chemistry, etc. I never used the world "talent". You did.

I've never been a Bills fan but I think their winning the AFC Championship four years running is almost as much of an accomplishment as actually winning a Super Bowl.

[frfksakes]

Peyton Rules!!!!

that was a great football game. not the prettiest, but down in the mud, slugging it out great.

[NealIsGod]

I've never been a Bills fan but I think their winning the AFC Championship four years running is almost as much of an accomplishment as actually winning a Super Bowl.

Probably even moreso. I can rattle off plenty of SB winners that I think are much lesser teams than those Bills squads.

[Enigma869]

I've never been a Bills fan but I think their winning the AFC Championship four years running is almost as much of an accomplishment as actually winning a Super Bowl.

Almost doesn't count!!!!! I'm someone who thinks LOSING 4 straight super bowls is about as pathetic as pathetic gets!!!!!


John from Boston

[Red13JoePa]

I bolded the part of your rebuttal that proves my point.

Sorry NIG...That doesn't prove your point, in my opinion. Your comment about those guys never having the team around them was about talent, and comment was that those teams were FAR more talented (by a long shot!)than any of the three Patriots teams that won it all!!!! The only point I was making is that the reason Kelly and Marino didn't win wasn't a deficit of talent...it was simply those guys not getting the job done!!!

John from Boston

Sure it does. Those QBs were on teams that didn't have what it takes to win a SB, whether it be talent, chemistry, etc. I never used the world "talent". You did.

Agreed, while Antowain Smith might not have been a great back, a great back does not necessarilly a good running game make. The Pats had the latter when they had Antowain where as Danny Franchise never had a good enough running game...what DID he have, The Marcks Brothers? Not enough. in '84 they did have The Killer Bs Defense that failed to stop the 49ers...

[Enigma869]

Agreed, while Antowain Smith might not have been a great back, a great back does not necessarilly a good running game make. The Pats had the latter when they had Antowain where as Danny Franchise never had a good enough running game...what DID he have, The Marcks Brothers? Not enough. in '84 they did have The Killer Bs Defense that failed to stop the 49ers...

You can argue this seven ways 'til Tuesday. The Dolphins never even tried to run the ball. The NFL is replete with teams who have won Super Bowls, without much of a running game. I can assure you that the 49'ers, even when they had Roger Craig were ALWAYS a pass first team, and only ran, as an afterthought! This notion that you can't win in the NFL, without a running game is a fallacy that's been proven wrong, time and time again! It's always best to be a "balanced" team, but, history has shown us that teams can win both running and passing!

In spite of Joseph Addai's reasonable season at running back, the Colts are not and never will be a "running team"...and this includes when Edgerrin James was there!!!! The fact of the matter is that James usually had almost as many receiving yards as he had rushing yards. Smart teams and smart coaches exploit their strengths, which is why as long as Manning is the QB of the Colts, running will be an afterthought!


John from Boston

[Red13JoePa]

Agreed, while Antowain Smith might not have been a great back, a great back does not necessarilly a good running game make. The Pats had the latter when they had Antowain where as Danny Franchise never had a good enough running game...what DID he have, The Marcks Brothers? Not enough. in '84 they did have The Killer Bs Defense that failed to stop the 49ers...

You can argue this seven ways 'til Tuesday. The Dolphins never even tried to run the ball. The NFL is replete with teams who have won Super Bowls, without much of a running game.

OK, like who won rings w/out much of a running game?

[conversationpc]

In spite of Joseph Addai's reasonable season at running back, the Colts are not and never will be a "running team"...and this includes when Edgerrin James was there!!!! The fact of the matter is that James usually had almost as many receiving yards as he had rushing yards. Smart teams and smart coaches exploit their strengths, which is why as long as Manning is the QB of the Colts, running will be an afterthought!

Edgerrin James has NEVER had anywhere near the amount of receiving yards as he has rushing...

+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1999 ind | 16 | 369 1553 4.2 13 | 62 586 9.5 4 |
| 2000 ind | 16 | 387 1709 4.4 13 | 63 594 9.4 5 |
| 2001 ind | 6 | 151 662 4.4 3 | 24 193 8.0 0 |
| 2002 ind | 14 | 277 989 3.6 2 | 61 354 5.8 1 |
| 2003 ind | 13 | 310 1259 4.1 11 | 51 292 5.7 0 |
| 2004 ind | 16 | 334 1548 4.6 9 | 51 483 9.5 0 |
| 2005 ind | 15 | 360 1506 4.2 13 | 44 337 7.7 1 |
| 2006 ari | 16 | 337 1159 3.4 6 | 38 217 5.7 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 112 | 2525 10385 4.1 70 | 394 3056 7.8 11 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

The Colts were near the middle of the pack as far as rushing offense this year but they've proven in the playoffs that their running game can pick up the slack when Peyton isn't playing so well.

[Saint John]

I've never been a Bills fan but I think their winning the AFC Championship four years running is almost as much of an accomplishment as actually winning a Super Bowl.

Almost doesn't count!!!!! I'm someone who thinks LOSING 4 straight super bowls is about as pathetic as pathetic gets!!!!!


John from Boston

Beats being the rest of the AFC those 4 years. It was just a case of the NFC being superior during those 4 years. No different than a conference, be it the AFC or NFC, winning 4 Super Bowls in a row. Just happened that the Bills had sustained talent for a lengthy stretch....something that IS impressive. And hey, they WERE in a position to win one of those games....Norwood missed a kick. NOTHING to do with Kelly. He put his team in a GREAT position to win a Super Bowl. It was simply out of his hands at that point.

[Enigma869]

Agreed, while Antowain Smith might not have been a great back, a great back does not necessarilly a good running game make. The Pats had the latter when they had Antowain where as Danny Franchise never had a good enough running game...what DID he have, The Marcks Brothers? Not enough. in '84 they did have The Killer Bs Defense that failed to stop the 49ers...

You can argue this seven ways 'til Tuesday. The Dolphins never even tried to run the ball. The NFL is replete with teams who have won Super Bowls, without much of a running game.

OK, like who won rings w/out much of a running game?

Well, for starters, the 1970's Baltimore Colts team had a running back by the name of Norm Bulaich, who led the team in rushing during the season, with a whopping 426 yards rushing! The 1971 Dallas Cowboys were led by Duane Thomas and 793 yards rushing. The 1980 Oakland Raiders were led by Mark VanEeghen with 800 yards and a whopping 5 touchdowns. The 1981 49ers were led by the immortal Ricky Patton who had 540 yards and 4 touchdowns. The 1982 Washington Redskins were led by John Riggins who had 550 yards and 3 touchdowns! The 1987 Washington Redskins were led by George Rogers who had 600 yards. The 1990 New York Giants were led by Ottis Anderson who had 700 yards rushing. The 1994 San Francisco 49ers were led by Ricky Watters who had 800 yards. The 1996 Green Bay Packers were led by Edgar Bennett who had 800 yards and a whopping 2 touchdowns! The 2002 Tampa Bay Buccanneers were led by the immortal Michael Pittman with 700 yards and a whole ONE touchdown! The 2003 New England Patriots were led by that stiff Antowain Smith, who had 600 yards and three touchdowns! That enough for you?

That's at least 13 teams that I could come up with who had anything but a dominant running game, and did not win Super Bowls because of their running games!!!!!! I grew up playing football and understand the game reasonably well. Because of that, I would never suggest that having a running game is a bad thing. I just don't want people saying teams who can't run can't win, because it simply IS NOT true!!!!!! If you have a dominant QB or dominant defense, having a running game is far from a neccessity!

John from Boston

[NealIsGod]

The 1982 Skins only played 9 games (strike year) and finished with the 10th best rushing offense. That is more telling than just picking one RB and acting like he was the entire rushing offense. The Skins actually ended up with 1140 yards in 9 games. Not bad.

Another example is the 1971 Cowboys. You cite Duane Thomas and his 793 yards rushing, but the team ended with 2,249 yards rushing that year. That's a hell of a year.