We've Lost Our Way

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Postby brywool » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:06 pm

Saint John wrote:
The ONLY thing Deen has on Smitty is his ability to sing great background vocals. Smitty is better with one hand, and I'm NOT being facetious, than Deen is with two. There is NO comparison between these two guys when it comes to drumming. None at all.



YUP.

Smith, Sucherman are AMAZING drummers. Deen doesn't hold a candle to Todd and Deen's a great drummer.
I like Deen, but I don't think he's nearly as versatile as these two.
Stuart Copeland somebody else mentioned. I haven't seen him on this tour, but the Synchonicity tour... God, he was SO FREAKING unbelievable. HE was what I remembered the most about that show. Damn!

I remember seeing Bad English in Seattle. I didn't think Deen was as good and I've never liked the sound of his kit especially when compared to Smith's. I've always disliked his snare sound. Still, he's a great drummer in great company. I just don't think he's as advanced as Smith.

Not to ruffle feathers. It's personal taste, but I have ALWAYS held Smith's drumming in the highest regard. That guy is/was a monster player.
Last edited by brywool on Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
NO. He's NOT Steve F'ing Perry. But he's Arnel F'ing Pineda and I'm okay with that.
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Postby GuessWho2 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:12 pm

Saint John wrote:The ONLY thing Deen has on Smitty is his ability to sing great background vocals. Smitty is better with one hand, and I'm NOT being facetious, than Deen is with two. There is NO comparison between these two guys when it comes to drumming. None at all.


And Deen would be the first to admit that. Smitty is one of Deen's idols!
Now explain this to me...what fucking stone? There is NO STONE LEFT!
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Postby Shadowsong » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:40 pm

Frick..."I'm just not feeling this Jeff guy"
Frack..."Well, why don't you pull the plug"

Ghhaassiiiggyyuuufffggssssshhhh

Gone in one big flush!

Nice work "Journey"

:roll:
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Postby FormerJrnyFan » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:43 pm

Shadowsong wrote:Frick..."I'm just not feeling this Jeff guy"
Frack..."Well, why don't you pull the plug"

Ghhaassiiiggyyuuufffggssssshhhh

Gone in one big flush!

Nice work "Journey"

:roll:
A fuckin' tragedy :(
... I will ALWAYS be a Sototarian
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Postby Loneman1 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:32 pm

brywool wrote:
Saint John wrote:
The ONLY thing Deen has on Smitty is his ability to sing great background vocals. Smitty is better with one hand, and I'm NOT being facetious, than Deen is with two. There is NO comparison between these two guys when it comes to drumming. None at all.



YUP.

Smith, Sucherman are AMAZING drummers. Deen doesn't hold a candle to Todd and Deen's a great drummer.
I like Deen, but I don't think he's nearly as versatile as these two.
Stuart Copeland somebody else mentioned. I haven't seen him on this tour, but the Synchonicity tour... God, he was SO FREAKING unbelievable. HE was what I remembered the most about that show. Damn!

I remember seeing Bad English in Seattle. I didn't think Deen was as good and I've never liked the sound of his kit especially when compared to Smith's. I've always disliked his snare sound. Still, he's a great drummer in great company. I just don't think he's as advanced as Smith.

Not to ruffle feathers. It's personal taste, but I have ALWAYS held Smith's drumming in the highest regard. That guy is/was a monster player.


Nothing against Deen at all, that dude can fucking flat out rock as well as pull off incredible technique, but Smith is basically the end-all-be-all for me. The dude is one of the primary reasons why I started drumming in the first place. I've read a few interviews with Deen and I know he feels the same way. I think I even read someplace that the first song he learned was AWYWI, and mine was LTS. Heh, we both had similar inspiration, so now if only I could find the way to get to his level and I'd be set!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Anyhow, I gotta say that its true that Steve Smith is in a league of his own.
Rock on,
Eric
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Postby jestor92 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:33 pm

Deen's drumming IMO is solid, but it isn't something that makes me do a double take. I'm not saying this strictly from the Journey point of view, I've heard his recordings with Ozzy, and with the Geezer Butler Band. The man can pound the skins, but he's not near the drummer that Steve Smith is. He is however, a damn good drummer and can help out the band tremendously with background vocals, so that is huge for a band and makes him an important piece of the pie musically.
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Postby Tarseea » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:42 pm

Deb1 wrote:
Sarah wrote:
donnaplease wrote:They should just admit their fuck-ups~I'm sure we would respect them a little more.

They don't owe an explanation to the public, especially if it's going to hurt their image... why would they do that? I know they're screwing themselves over as it is, and I'm not excusing it at all, but what would they honestly gain from admitting to their fuckups?


Respect! As Brian May so elequantly put it........they need to "own their own poo." They might even have gained 1 or 2% of the respect I lost for this band if they would actually have had the balls to sit down and talk it out with Jeff. :x


Deb I believe they have been neutered
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Postby Marc S » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:40 pm

Nothing against Deen at all, that dude can fucking flat out rock as well as pull off incredible technique, but Smith is basically the end-all-be-all for me. The dude is one of the primary reasons why I started drumming in the first place. I've read a few interviews with Deen and I know he feels the same way. I think I even read someplace that the first song he learned was AWYWI, and mine was LTS. Heh, we both had similar inspiration, so now if only I could find the way to get to his level and I'd be set!!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing Anyhow, I gotta say that its true that Steve Smith is in a league of his own.


Wrong and wrong. Smitty 'learnt' how to play over the years, extremely technically adept, indeed one of the best. Thats what he's felt the need to study all sorts of drumming. But as stated previously, he's not a natural, never has been.
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Postby MRMUSIC413 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:14 pm

RockinDeano wrote:
Neal, you should have fired this prick, picked up Greg and moved on.



Amen... 100X amen...

(BTW- Ask Rolie what he thinks of Perry and Cain as people... you'll get a pretty straight answer from him.
Nice guy and he doesn't pull any punches. He was smart to get out when he did.)
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Making modern music
Can still be open-hearted
Not so coldly charted
Its really just a question
Of your honesty..."
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Postby Loneman1 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:21 pm

I have to disagree. Steve may have a different feel for the drums, but it does come naturally, perhaps organically even. I haven't ever heard him once force any note that doesn't "feel" like it should be there. I own his first commercially available record that he played on (Jean-Luc Ponty - Enigmatic Ocean - 1977), and even from that alone he showed much promise as a kid. He's never been one to just HIT as hard as the vast majority of drummers out there, but the guy plays ghost notes and other subtle, yet meaningful things all over the place and has a style all his own. THAT, IMO, makes him my favorite. Someone earlier said its all about the style preference, which is true. You might disagree, but I know I love what he plays, and how he plays it.
Rock on,
Eric
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Postby Jeremey fan forever » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:36 pm

I'm interested in many of the Steve and Deen comments here. I think Smith is better than Deen at creating innovative beats and really bringing something more special than just drums to the music. I think Deen plays Smith's stuff really well, and its amazing to see Deen live, because he is an animal, and works his ass off behind the kit--not to mention one hell of a singer. When he creates new music for Journey, it seems like he is pretty content just to beat on the drums the same as anyone, and not worry about being too creative. But he can play Smith's parts perfectly, I just wish he could create with the same inspiration.
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Re: We've Lost Our Way

Postby Little Lenny » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:51 pm

RockinDeano wrote:Folks are steamed, bent, pissed and enraged.

The point I want to make is this.

Jeff is upset for one reason in particular. He doesn't know why he was fired. It's now become a game of Law and Order or Cold Case, where we are trying to piece the puzzle together. Jeff is upset about this, make no mistake, as we do know he wasn't let go for his performance. They blew Def Leppard away nightly after his arrival. This is something that they (Neal and Friga) know. Obviously it is something they aren't proud of because they don't have the balls to even call Jeff and simply put this all to bed and tell him why. This leads me to believe that there is something rotten in the bowels of these two guys....Ross isn't exempt from this either...he is a motherfucker as well as he is a liar. Yeah Ross, I figured it all out. You threw me under the bus publicly, so I owe you one

Anyway, had they just said, "Jeff, we just don't think the sound is right or the voice doesn't fit" or whatever. There would still be some waves but not nearly as bad as what we have now.




Here is something posted on another thread on this forum, By another person, I copied it to this one, it may stop some of the speculation. :)

Marcel Jacob Blog: WTF: JSS, Journey and some other stuff


Ok This is an intermediate diary entry, between the European dates and going to Brazil in a few weeks time. It was prompted by events that occurred while I was on tour with another band I (and Jamie) am involved with – Last Autumns Dream. This entry is therefore divided in 2 parts, namely the trip to Japan, and the WTF!

WTF! A week ago I received the e-mail from Jeff with the message of his termination. It wasn't a total surprise, as I will explain. But it was still a massive WTF! moment.

Ok, I am back home, body and mind starting to synchronize yet again. I just can't hold back anymore…I know that Jeff has signed a confidentiality agreement - I totally expect him to sugarcoat everything he says to any media – but I have not. And everyone who knows me expects me to say it how it is, so get ready.

Jeff had told us early on in the tour, like the first day really, about how he was concerned about what was going on with Journey, that there was some unspecified dissatisfaction with him coming mainly from Neal Schon, and that he couldn't get an answer from anybody in the band or from management what it was about. We all told him not to worry, it was a weekend, they would tell him something soon. After the weekend there was a rumour on the internet about Jeff getting fired. Management responded to inquiries from Jeff about that, telling Jeff to cool it and don't do anything,

it was just Neal being Neal and that it would blow over. But I could see the agony was still there, the band themselves were still not returning any calls. The thing was, Jeff was doing this farewell tour with Talisman so he could lay this part of his past to rest, before moving on to further commit to his new job with Journey. This mean't being away in Europe, feeling isolated from what was going on back home, that alone should have prompted reasoning adults to respond to messages or questions … WTF! Great reward for Jeff's loyalty and commitment…

Well, I know Jeff expected to come home to have a sitdown with Neal and management to discuss and sort out whatever issues or misconceptions. Instead this happened: we'd done a highly emotional show at Sweden Rock, we were all feeling good about the reception…and backstage at the Aerosmith show Jeff meets the singer for another band that have the same management as Journey. This guy steps up and says to the effect "Hi Jeff, so sorry to hear the news about your departure from Journey"! Talk about a letdown!

Ok. Let me stop here in my narrative and tell you what I think of Azoff and friends, the so called Journey management. They tell other artists on their roster before they tell Jeff about the termination – confidentiality breach anyone ? Keeping band business under wraps ? When the rumours started they told Jeff it would blow over if he would cool it and not be so active on the internet etc. which in retrospect is of course lies and very manipulative. They allow their clients Schon & Cain (aka Frick&Frack, love the ridicule they get on for example melodicrock.com) to send out press statements that are just plain dumb. Noone with management is watching out for the trademark "Journey" it seems.

How is it that they accept their clients idea of choosing a cover band singer ( haven't heard the guy, he may be the shit for all I care) when they had Jeff come in and breathe new life into a band that was floundering ? And WTF, they terminate Jeff, send out a moronic press statement, delete Jeff's image from the website and his participation from the bio…and immediately put on top of their news section a 3 times as long as the termination press statement a NEW press statement where they brag about how they got a song on the Sopranos! They usually update the news on the website what, once a month or less ?

Everything Azoff & friends have done in this situation reeks…makes me wonder what the scene with the other Azoff artist was all about, they wanted him to be the axeman, or lay some foundation so Jeff wouldn't cause some sort of embarrassing scene when they had to place the call ? What makes me even more nauseous however are the malicious rumours that I've seen.

I wonder who is behind those, the common creeps out there, or somebody more "connnected"? I swear, Jeff hasn't said or done a single thing that doesn't rhyme with his intentions of loyalty and commitment to working with Neal, Jonathan, Dean, and Ross. He's the kind of guy that would have stepped down, worked it out so everybody came out smelling of roses – but he simply hasn't been given the chance. WTF! When Jeff told me about the situation I thought "very immature people" but I never expected F&F to really go through with it. WTF!

Jeff's been my brother for a long time. I hurt almost as bad as he does. I feel very strongly that he's been used and wrongfully dismissed, no warning, no second chance, for no proper reason given other than that Journey now wants to use a cover band singer. How sad, screwing Jeff for that…

Take care,
MJ
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