JC (Friga) Saint or Sinner - take no prisoners?

[Monker]

Oh here we go...the elusive insider information technique....an old favourite with Deano and Susie too...

?????? Me???????

What was your last quote to me, "according to credible sources..." LOL. It seems to me that the 'sources' that people rely on are not very reliable.

[Zan]

#1, Mathew is right.

#2, NOBODY officially replace Ross Valory and Steve Smith during ROR.

3. Monker & NiG need to report to the Styx forum pronto. You are missed

You may now return to your regularly scheduled bashing, swearing, and character assassinating.

[Monker]

1) Matthew's more of a drama queen than me

I have to agree w/u AGAIN. I am seriously questioning how light his loafers really are

Anyone who lists ROR as their favorite Journey album is either:

A) a woman

B) a man who wants to be a woman (except for 13 - I don't know what his problem is).

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder which case applies to Steve Perry?

[Monker]

Many people keep talking about how Cain now wants to protect the Journey legacy, his remaking of "Faithfully" proves that he is not concerned. Why would you take one of your best songs and destroy it? That's what he did in my opinion with the remake, it is terrible.

EXCELLENT point.

But I'll bet Perry approved it.

Why? He had absolutely NO hand in writing the song. It's Cain's to do with as he will.

[Rick]

1) Matthew's more of a drama queen than me

I have to agree w/u AGAIN. I am seriously questioning how light his loafers really are

Anyone who lists ROR as their favorite Journey album is either:

A) a woman

B) a man who wants to be a woman (except for 13 - I don't know what his problem is).

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder which case applies to Steve Perry?

Are you saying that's his favorite?

[Monker]

. I guess I'm just trying to give credit where it's due.

I'll give JSS credit for breathing new life into Journey's nostalgia shows for eight months. Absolutely. But the other achievements - such as the New Direction, the Comeback, the Relevant In The Industry Again scenarios - didn't actually happen Fyre, did they? I guess we can credit JSS for having had potential...but the rest is just wishful thinking.

He wasn't given the chance for any of this to happen/develop. Step 1 was a resounding success and then he had his legs chopped off. I guess all the resentment comes from the fact the band were all over JSS as were fans and the media, then zero. And all without explination thus far.

Step 1 came on a tour that had sold out dates even before JSS came on board. It's not an easy thing to decipher how much of the success of the DL tour should be credited to JSS...or how much should be credited to OPENING for DL, how much should be credited to the Augeri years, and how much is just overblown hype.

The only fact that you can point to is that JSS came on to finish the tour...and to his credit - he did that. But, anything beyond that is speculation - at best.

The rest of the above, I never believed would happen anyway. A new direct? A comeback? Relevant int he industry? LOL...don't make me laugh. I don't care who is singing - none of the above would have happened.

[Andrew]

Step 1 came on a tour that had sold out dates even before JSS came on board. It's not an easy thing to decipher how much of the success of the DL tour should be credited to JSS...or how much should be credited to OPENING for DL, how much should be credited to the Augeri years, and how much is just overblown hype.

The only fact that you can point to is that JSS came on to finish the tour...and to his credit - he did that. But, anything beyond that is speculation - at best.

The rest of the above, I never believed would happen anyway. A new direct? A comeback? Relevant int he industry? LOL...don't make me laugh. I don't care who is singing - none of the above would have happened.

1) The vast majority of press reviews focussed on Journey's performances and energy. Th eband could have fallen on their ass big time...but JSS saved them from that and the band said as much to me in person.

2) Speculation? er, no...why on earth would a band and management fly me to the States to do a major feature on the "new" line-up....for a band only intended to use him as a stop gap measure.
I was there, you were not, so don't argue this point at all with me.

3) There was EVERY possibility of making waves again. Hit singles and being relevent in the pop market? No...but every chance of a selling album, airplay and bigger tours...YES.

Case in point - a big record label in Europe approached the band after seeing the JSS ronted UK shows. They wanted the band on board, they were impressed by the new energy and felt there was something there to promote.
They even met with management. Huge fans of JSS. How do I know this - the LABEL told me so.

The undeniable fact was that Journey with JSS had a chance to do something new while still paying tribute to the legacy. That chance slipped away with the dismissal of Jeff.

[Saint John]

Step 1 came on a tour that had sold out dates even before JSS came on board. It's not an easy thing to decipher how much of the success of the DL tour should be credited to JSS...or how much should be credited to OPENING for DL, how much should be credited to the Augeri years, and how much is just overblown hype.

The only fact that you can point to is that JSS came on to finish the tour...and to his credit - he did that. But, anything beyond that is speculation - at best.

The rest of the above, I never believed would happen anyway. A new direct? A comeback? Relevant int he industry? LOL...don't make me laugh. I don't care who is singing - none of the above would have happened.

1) The vast majority of press reviews focussed on Journey's performances and energy. Th eband could have fallen on their ass big time...but JSS saved them from that and the band said as much to me in person.

2) Speculation? er, no...why on earth would a band and management fly me to the States to do a major feature on the "new" line-up....for a band only intended to use him as a stop gap measure.
I was there, you were not, so don't argue this point at all with me.

3) There was EVERY possibility of making waves again. Hit singles and being relevent in the pop market? No...but every chance of a selling album, airplay and bigger tours...YES.

Case in point - a big record label in Europe approached the band after seeing the JSS ronted UK shows. They wanted the band on board, they were impressed by the new energy and felt there was something there to promote.
They even met with management. Huge fans of JSS. How do I know this - the LABEL told me so.

The undeniable fact was that Journey with JSS had a chance to do something new while still paying tribute to the legacy. That chance slipped away with the dismissal of Jeff.

WTF is "a big record label in Europe?" Touring to crowds that reek from "BO" is NOT something I'd want to do. Just what Schon needs, a European wife with hairy armpits.

[Monker]

1) The vast majority of press reviews focussed on Journey's performances and energy. Th eband could have fallen on their ass big time...but JSS saved them from that and the band said as much to me in person.

[/quote]

I find it ironic how fans, not specificaly you Andrew, focus on reviews as proof of something when the reviews favor the band, and ignore them when they do not. The simple truth is you don't know what affect that had - if it had any affect at all - on how well the tour sold. IMO, it had no affect at all - since the band was selling out venues BEFORE JSS JOINED THE TOUR. What sold tickets were the names Journey and Def Leppard...not reviews, not JSS, not Augeri, not Neal Schon...just the band names and the fact that they were on the same ticket.

2) Speculation? er, no...why on earth would a band and management fly me to the States to do a major feature on the "new" line-up....for a band only intended to use him as a stop gap measure.
I was there, you were not, so don't argue this point at all with me.

Yes, it IS speculation on how much credit JSS, or any other one factor, had in the success of the tour. Your talk of Journey catering to you does not even address that point.

I also never said the band 'intended to use him as a stop gap measure'. I simply never believed it would go as far as most others did - and I happened to be right.

3) There was EVERY possibility of making waves again. Hit singles and being relevent in the pop market? No...but every chance of a selling album, airplay and bigger tours...YES.

There was about as much possibility of that as there was of Perry being hired to replace Augeri. Not NEAR enough people care enough about Journey any longer for any of the above to happen. That's MY opinion. It was my opinion even before JSS took over.

Case in point - a big record label in Europe approached the band after seeing the JSS ronted UK shows. They wanted the band on board, they were impressed by the new energy and felt there was something there to promote.
They even met with management. Huge fans of JSS. How do I know this - the LABEL told me so.

A record label in Europe equates to what they had with Sony with Arrival and before? I don't think so. Obviously, it did not impress the band very much either.

The undeniable fact was that Journey with JSS had a chance to do something new while still paying tribute to the legacy. That chance slipped away with the dismissal of Jeff.

From what you just said above, it can be argued that they already did the above with Generations....a label in Europe, and doing it on their own in the US. Sorry, but that is not very impressive to me...and is VERY far away from most of the hype that surrounded things a few months ago.

[Ms_M]

Step 1 came on a tour that had sold out dates even before JSS came on board. It's not an easy thing to decipher how much of the success of the DL tour should be credited to JSS...or how much should be credited to OPENING for DL, how much should be credited to the Augeri years, and how much is just overblown hype.

The only fact that you can point to is that JSS came on to finish the tour...and to his credit - he did that. But, anything beyond that is speculation - at best.

The rest of the above, I never believed would happen anyway. A new direct? A comeback? Relevant int he industry? LOL...don't make me laugh. I don't care who is singing - none of the above would have happened.

1) The vast majority of press reviews focussed on Journey's performances and energy. Th eband could have fallen on their ass big time...but JSS saved them from that and the band said as much to me in person.

2) Speculation? er, no...why on earth would a band and management fly me to the States to do a major feature on the "new" line-up....for a band only intended to use him as a stop gap measure.
I was there, you were not, so don't argue this point at all with me.

3) There was EVERY possibility of making waves again. Hit singles and being relevent in the pop market? No...but every chance of a selling album, airplay and bigger tours...YES.

Case in point - a big record label in Europe approached the band after seeing the JSS ronted UK shows. They wanted the band on board, they were impressed by the new energy and felt there was something there to promote.
They even met with management. Huge fans of JSS. How do I know this - the LABEL told me so.

The undeniable fact was that Journey with JSS had a chance to do something new while still paying tribute to the legacy. That chance slipped away with the dismissal of Jeff.

WTF is "a big record label in Europe?" Touring to crowds that reek from "BO" is NOT something I'd want to do. Just what Schon needs, a European wife with hairy armpits.

Wouldn't that complete his set? J/K

I really appreciate your thoughts on this Andrew. You hit on the one question I have had all along - why make the "big" announcement that JSS was the new singer and then dump him, uncermoniously? I would not have understood it, but would have found it a bit more honorable if they'd thanked him for his work on the tour and go on down the road. The whole thing is just weird.

[Andrew]

Blah Blah Blah

The European label is in fact a worldwide label and the deal was for a worldwide release. The A&R office just happened to be based in the UK and they love JSS and wanted to push the band. A much bigger deal than Frontiers and Generations.

[Món]

All of the above is seen through the eyes of DIE HARD FANS.

Do you actually think about the rest of us? We are the vast majority, really. Maybe we're not avid collectors of all things Journey. Maybe we didn't like certain things about the band's direction. Maybe we didn't even buy a t shirt or a baseball cap the last time we saw them live.

To me (and this is OPINION, not fact, of course), a JSS-fronted Journey CD would've gone to the same place Soul Sirkus did: NOWHERE.

The reason? Journey is a nostalgia act, pure and simple. Soul Sirkus wasn't exactly a nostalgia act, but it was masterminded by Schon, so...

Contemporary radio doesn't give a fuck about new material from this kind of acts. Guitar-solo rock is VERY dead. That pisses me off, but what the hell....

Yes, there are several old rockers out there who can still pull a crowd. The Stones, for example. Or McCartney. But they're not in the same ball park. That's painfully obvious.

To the vast majority of the fans of the band, Journey died with Perry. It's sad, but it's probably VERY accurate.

They won't sell millions of records, or fill 20,000 seaters by themselves again. Ever. Not even with Perry.

That's how forgiving time can be.

Don't get me wrong. I would've LOVED to hear some new material with Jeff, but by the time AOR music is important again (sales-wise) the band members will be too fucking old to care for a REAL reunion.

It's over, Johnny.

(turns radio on and starts vomiting incontrollably to some Simple Plan tune)

[Andrew]

The reason? Journey is a nostalgia act, pure and simple. Soul Sirkus wasn't exactly a nostalgia act, but it was masterminded by Schon, so...

True, but they don't HAVE to be.

[Món]

The reason? Journey is a nostalgia act, pure and simple. Soul Sirkus wasn't exactly a nostalgia act, but it was masterminded by Schon, so...

True, but they don't HAVE to be.

If you're talking about Journey, I don't think that's their choice anymore.

Now, Soul Sirkus could be another story, but they have to get rid of Schon in order to accomplish something.

That's how big Journey's shadow is.

[squirt1]

Journey is a nostalgia act because Perry is not writing with Schon/Cain anymore. If they had the talent alone, they would have had better songs and maybe sold a few million albums. Neal is all rock noise and Cain is all syrup and Perry balanced all of it until he aged. Jeff would have added some writing, but one thing is for sure he reminded us of how it use to be with Perry by taking control of the stage. That probably startled Neal & Jon and they relived the Perry in the spotlight years and so Jeff is out of here.

[Crazie Scarab]

The reason? Journey is a nostalgia act, pure and simple. Soul Sirkus wasn't exactly a nostalgia act, but it was masterminded by Schon, so...

True, but they don't HAVE to be.

True. However, it seems they choose to be. Unless, of course, they are going to REALLY suprise us all next year, eh?

[harko]

[quote="squirt1"]Journey is a nostalgia act because Perry is not writing with Schon/Cain anymore. If they had the talent alone, they would have had better songs and maybe sold a few million albums. Neal is all rock noise and Cain is all syrup and Perry balanced all of it until he aged. Jeff would have added some writing, but one thing is for sure he reminded us of how it use to be with Perry by taking control of the stage. That probably startled Neal & Jon and they relived the Perry in the spotlight years and so Jeff is out of here.[/quote]


Do you really think it's that simple (and shallow)?

[mistiejourney]

Journey is a nostalgia act because Perry is not writing with Schon/Cain anymore. If they had the talent alone, they would have had better songs and maybe sold a few million albums. Neal is all rock noise and Cain is all syrup and Perry balanced all of it until he aged. Jeff would have added some writing, but one thing is for sure he reminded us of how it use to be with Perry by taking control of the stage. That probably startled Neal & Jon and they relived the Perry in the spotlight years and so Jeff is out of here.

When I heard the first notes out of JSS' mouth last summer, I could not take my eyes off of him - he was THAT strong of a presence onstage. With SA, I saw the whole band - never did that when SP was with them because I was watching him. I remember thinking how different JSS was from SA on stage and if that would be an issue because now there was an in-your-face frontman again.

BTW: I loved SA AND JSS. Their styles were just different. SA was a blended latte and JSS was a solid shot of espresso straight up! Both are good but one really gets you revved....

[Crazie Scarab]

Journey is a nostalgia act because Perry is not writing with Schon/Cain anymore. If they had the talent alone, they would have had better songs and maybe sold a few million albums. Neal is all rock noise and Cain is all syrup and Perry balanced all of it until he aged. Jeff would have added some writing, but one thing is for sure he reminded us of how it use to be with Perry by taking control of the stage. That probably startled Neal & Jon and they relived the Perry in the spotlight years and so Jeff is out of here.

When I heard the first notes out of JSS' mouth last summer, I could not take my eyes off of him - he was THAT strong of a presence onstage. With SA, I saw the whole band - never did that when SP was with them because I was watching him. I remember thinking how different JSS was from SA on stage and if that would be an issue because now there was an in-your-face frontman again.

BTW: I loved SA AND JSS. Their styles were just different. SA was a blended latte and JSS was a solid shot of espresso straight up! Both are good but one really gets you revved....

SA may have been a blended latte at first. However, he became a flat, warm Pepsi sitting under the pool table for a couple days after some time..

[mistiejourney]

Journey is a nostalgia act because Perry is not writing with Schon/Cain anymore. If they had the talent alone, they would have had better songs and maybe sold a few million albums. Neal is all rock noise and Cain is all syrup and Perry balanced all of it until he aged. Jeff would have added some writing, but one thing is for sure he reminded us of how it use to be with Perry by taking control of the stage. That probably startled Neal & Jon and they relived the Perry in the spotlight years and so Jeff is out of here.

When I heard the first notes out of JSS' mouth last summer, I could not take my eyes off of him - he was THAT strong of a presence onstage. With SA, I saw the whole band - never did that when SP was with them because I was watching him. I remember thinking how different JSS was from SA on stage and if that would be an issue because now there was an in-your-face frontman again.

BTW: I loved SA AND JSS. Their styles were just different. SA was a blended latte and JSS was a solid shot of espresso straight up! Both are good but one really gets you revved....

SA may have been a blended latte at first. However, he became a flat, warm Pepsi sitting under the pool table for a couple days after some time..

I not only got a visual on that description, but as a Diet Pepsi addict I also was treated to a "taste" visual, too! Thanks sooooo much for that!

[Matthew]

. I guess I'm just trying to give credit where it's due.

I'll give JSS credit for breathing new life into Journey's nostalgia shows for eight months. Absolutely. But the other achievements - such as the New Direction, the Comeback, the Relevant In The Industry Again scenarios - didn't actually happen Fyre, did they? I guess we can credit JSS for having had potential...but the rest is just wishful thinking.

He wasn't given the chance for any of this to happen/develop. Step 1 was a resounding success and then he had his legs chopped off. I guess all the resentment comes from the fact the band were all over JSS as were fans and the media, then zero. And all without explination thus far.

Andrew - I wasn't criticizing JSS for not achieving those things because - as you say - he wasn't given the opportunity to achieve them. Also - I can totally understand the frustration about JSS' departure and about the lack of explanation too. I feel that frustration myself having got excited about Journey again after seeing them in March.

All I'm taking issue with is the trashing of Cain's personality and career that's going on at the moment. We don't even know for sure that it was Cain who was primarily responsible for this situation. In fact, from what little has emerged from the Journey/JSS camps it seems that Schon was the guy who had the problem. And Schon was certainly the guy who owes JSS an explanation - far more than Cain does.

And...I have to say...if anyone here was able to wholeheartedly support Journey and Jonathan Cain after Perry was fired they have no business acting all holier-than-thou about this situation.

[ddregs]

Matthew, I support your basic thought: the complete trashing of Cain. Since this is Journey, the masterminds behind the name are supposed to be more than only Cain, so even Schon / Valory / Castronovo should get the same amount of trash Cain is receiving.
The reason is well shared by (almost) everyone here: they got rid of the best singer they had and could have had for years ahead.
Now the band is a complete joke. I wonder if time will heal the pain and , more personally, if I will ever want to hear anything from this band.
Only time will tell.

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]

[NealIsGod]

3. Monker & NiG need to report to the Styx forum pronto. You are missed

I am missed in the Styx forum? Did froy tell you to post that, Zan?

[Monker]

The reason? Journey is a nostalgia act, pure and simple. Soul Sirkus wasn't exactly a nostalgia act, but it was masterminded by Schon, so...

True, but they don't HAVE to be.

If you're talking about Journey, I don't think that's their choice anymore.

Now, Soul Sirkus could be another story, but they have to get rid of Schon in order to accomplish something.

That's how big Journey's shadow is.

EXACTLY. I don't care what label they are on, or who is singing. The people out there do NOT want 'new' Journey music. They want to hear the old stuff...and don't care about anything new. That's where they are. It isn't Journey's choice any longer.

I also don't believe it 'died with Perry'. It died when they parted with Sony...and did hardly anything new on their own. We got 'hush puppies' from Journey. That may be fine for people on forums like this...but it doesn't get the attention of the masses and keep new Journey music on people's minds.

Soul Sirkus was also dead from the start...because they had NO household names in it. Add Sammy Hagar, and you have a huge band...remove him and you have a struggling band that have a few online fans because of Journey.

[ArnelRox]

[Red13JoePa]

Well we all have Andrew as a source and a lot of us have Deano as a source. What other ones?

In regards to what I said in this thread about credible/reliable sources, those are my only sources. It seems some missed those sources talking about this major label record deal. I didn't.

Mmmm... I thinkl I am with St John on this one.

Journey bashers ridiculed the band for "only" being able to get Generations out on Sanctuary, an American label.


But now a "major label" shows interest in the band, and it's a Eurolabel? And I'm not bashing that, but a European label also released Generations in Europe.

It's the same thing with a different lineup (actually LESS if no American labels were weighing in yet, though I am sure they eventually would have), but one scenario was criticized and one is being propped up as like, Schon and Cain aborted a 6-record mega deal with Atlantic or Virgin or something.

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]