Better Album ROR or TBF?

[tj]

I think it's hard to compare the two. It's a case of apples and oranges. I like Trial By Fire more because of it's maturity in sound. Yes, I wished it had some harder rockin' tunes on it, but it was the right type of album to make for a more mature Journey. I think it is an album that sets them apart from just being a rock band. The songs are well written with great melodies yet an updated sound which would've scored huge points for them had Journey been able to have toured behind it and had promoted more.

That's not to say I didn't like ROR. There are some songs on that album I really like....Be Good To Yourself, Suzanne, Girl Can't Help It....but I think the album would've been stronger if Ross and Steve Smith were on that record.

How would Ross and Steve Smith made it a stronger album? Familiarity with the playing styles of the others in the group?

[ArnelRox]

Both of those albums are low on my list of Journey albums. "Trial By Fire" is probably better, start to finish, since it's weaker songs are not as bad as those on "Raised on Radio". However, the stronger songs are better on ROR than on TBF, so I would give it the slight advantage.

Good points there Dave. I would have to agree w/u.

[ArnelRox]

Neither album is worth hocking a loogie over, compared to the previous albums.

They're better than Evolution....

Wow. Not to me. Not in a month of Sundays. I LOVE ALL the songs on Evolution passionately. I'd take that album ANY day over ROR or TBF.

[ArnelRox]

Neither album is worth hocking a loogie over, compared to the previous albums.

They're better than Evolution....

Go get professional help...now!!

It's his love of Friga that causes this. I've been trying to convince him to get help for about 15 pages of another thread.

[sindee67]

I'm partial to the FAB 5 as I like to call them...I'm going to go with TBF!!!

[ddregs]

Both of those albums are low on my list of Journey albums. "Trial By Fire" is probably better, start to finish, since it's weaker songs are not as bad as those on "Raised on Radio". However, the stronger songs are better on ROR than on TBF, so I would give it the slight advantage.

100% Agreed. I would consider the different moment as well: ROR was coming out from the best or most succesfull Journey time, while TBF was the reunion after disbanding in 1986 and everything was laid out mostly for touring, something that never happened. So , in my book TBF is even better than what it could have been...

[bluejeangirl76]

Neither album is worth hocking a loogie over, compared to the previous albums.

They're better than Evolution....

Blasphemy.

Awhile back this would have been an easy answer for me but I've begun to muster up a new appreciation for TBF that I didn't have originally. It now holds a higher spot for me than Frontiers, I think, but I'm not yet ready to say it's better than ROR.

[Matthew]

That's not to say I didn't like ROR. There are some songs on that album I really like....Be Good To Yourself, Suzanne, Girl Can't Help It....but I think the album would've been stronger if Ross and Steve Smith were on that record.

Except Steve Smith was the guy playing drums on three of the songs you didn't like...

[Ms_M]

Granted, TBF was 15 years later. Even so, I think that much time could have produced some better songs.

See,my opinion is that too much time apart killed whatever was there in the 80s.They've been separated for too long.
Even if TBF was in fact a reunion,I guess there were too many things they didn't sort out between them and that affected the songwriting.
They were still fabulous musicians after the 15 year gap,but the camaraderie was gone for the most part.
That's why TBF is an artistical masterpiece,but lacks that personal magic touch their heyday albums had.TBF sounds much "colder" than any other Journey album.

This band's success was based on the chemistry/friendship between its members.Also,as long as they really believed in what they were doing they have perfectly worked together and the material they released between 1978 - 1983 is the proof.
Soon as their personal issues became stronger than their common goals,the feel of the music had to suffer.

For me,both ROR and TBF are exceptions to the rule.Both albums were born in special circumstances and are musically controversial.
I love them both for different reasons,can't really decide which one's the "best".

Laura ~ I love what you said - it said perfectly what my sleep-deprived brain could not come up with.

[Rockindeano]

Trial by Fire is better than ROR, and Evolution.

[strangegrey]

Gee, surprise surprise, more H2H crap..

[Red13JoePa]

And had Steve Perry been on Arrival I think it would have been a huge success.

You'd NEVER have the best songs on Arrival if perry had been in the band.

There'd be NO HP, no WGW....

Save for WWMA, which is VERY evocative of perry-era Journey Arrival's a more "Journey" effort than TBF.
The common critique here of ROR is that "It's a perry solo record." I couldn't disagree more with that, in fact I think it applies WAY more to TBF.

ROR was still emblematic of a functioning Journey band, albeit at the end. TBF sounds exactly like what it was. An island. A 1-off reunion of the players that used be in Journey. ROR is a Journey album.

[*Laura]

ROR was still emblematic of a functioning Journey band, albeit at the end.ROR is a Journey album.

Not really.
ROR is an album produced by Steve Perry under the name Journey.It was his vision. (guess that's why I like it so much )
It's a Journey album only by name,but in essence it's a half-Journey CD,just as the band was functioning only with half its members - if we consider Herbie his as the 6th wheel of the machinery .

[heardonthestreet]

Regardless of the events surrounding the making of these two albums, they are a product of their time and two of Journey's greatest and equal in value, for different reasons, imo.

[Greg]

I think it's hard to compare the two. It's a case of apples and oranges. I like Trial By Fire more because of it's maturity in sound. Yes, I wished it had some harder rockin' tunes on it, but it was the right type of album to make for a more mature Journey. I think it is an album that sets them apart from just being a rock band. The songs are well written with great melodies yet an updated sound which would've scored huge points for them had Journey been able to have toured behind it and had promoted more.

That's not to say I didn't like ROR. There are some songs on that album I really like....Be Good To Yourself, Suzanne, Girl Can't Help It....but I think the album would've been stronger if Ross and Steve Smith were on that record.

How would Ross and Steve Smith made it a stronger album? Familiarity with the playing styles of the others in the group?

If I remember correctly, the band recorded ROR using a drum machine. I can't honestly remember where I read this, but this is what apparently happened. No matter how good drum machines are, nothing takes the place of having a real drummer keeping the beat of the song. It was part of the new direction that Steve Perry wanted to go to on the album. I'll have to find the interview though.

[Lora]

Trial by Fire is better than ROR, and Evolution.

I absolutely agree. There are no Perry-era albums that I dislike, but I play Evolution the least of all my CDs. TBF & ROR are always on heavy rotation with me, with TBF far and away at the top of the list. Great songwriting (for the most part), musicianship, vocals and melodies. I think this album would have taken them far if they were able to tour.

[Just Mindy]

I wouldn't say that one is better over the other...they're just different. Depepding on my mood, I'll pick one over the other. Sometimes I can't take the more upbeat songs on ROR so I'll go for TBF. I'll admit lately I prefer TBF.

[tj]

I think it's hard to compare the two. It's a case of apples and oranges. I like Trial By Fire more because of it's maturity in sound. Yes, I wished it had some harder rockin' tunes on it, but it was the right type of album to make for a more mature Journey. I think it is an album that sets them apart from just being a rock band. The songs are well written with great melodies yet an updated sound which would've scored huge points for them had Journey been able to have toured behind it and had promoted more.

That's not to say I didn't like ROR. There are some songs on that album I really like....Be Good To Yourself, Suzanne, Girl Can't Help It....but I think the album would've been stronger if Ross and Steve Smith were on that record.

How would Ross and Steve Smith made it a stronger album? Familiarity with the playing styles of the others in the group?

If I remember correctly, the band recorded ROR using a drum machine. I can't honestly remember where I read this, but this is what apparently happened. No matter how good drum machines are, nothing takes the place of having a real drummer keeping the beat of the song. It was part of the new direction that Steve Perry wanted to go to on the album. I'll have to find the interview though.

I vaguely recall reading something about a drum machine during the recording of ROR. I can't recall the details, though.


vag4e3y reca33

[Greg]

I think it's hard to compare the two. It's a case of apples and oranges. I like Trial By Fire more because of it's maturity in sound. Yes, I wished it had some harder rockin' tunes on it, but it was the right type of album to make for a more mature Journey. I think it is an album that sets them apart from just being a rock band. The songs are well written with great melodies yet an updated sound which would've scored huge points for them had Journey been able to have toured behind it and had promoted more.

That's not to say I didn't like ROR. There are some songs on that album I really like....Be Good To Yourself, Suzanne, Girl Can't Help It....but I think the album would've been stronger if Ross and Steve Smith were on that record.

How would Ross and Steve Smith made it a stronger album? Familiarity with the playing styles of the others in the group?

If I remember correctly, the band recorded ROR using a drum machine. I can't honestly remember where I read this, but this is what apparently happened. No matter how good drum machines are, nothing takes the place of having a real drummer keeping the beat of the song. It was part of the new direction that Steve Perry wanted to go to on the album. I'll have to find the interview though.

I vaguely recall reading something about a drum machine during the recording of ROR. I can't recall the details, though.


vag4e3y reca33

I've tried finding it on the internet and can't find it. I do know that Smitty played on track 1, 10, and 11.

[Red13JoePa]

I vaguely recall reading something about a drum machine during the recording of ROR. I can't recall the details, though.


vag4e3y reca33

It was that perry (as was his prerogative since he was producer) wanted a more mechanical, drum machine SOUNDING drummer, Smitty did not roll that way and so Londin played on at least 10 of 11 tracks.

My question is why the change from Londin to Baird for the tour?

For the record I dig the drums on ROR.

[Matthew]

I vaguely recall reading something about a drum machine during the recording of ROR. I can't recall the details, though.


vag4e3y reca33

It was that perry (as was his prerogative since he was producer) wanted a more mechanical, drum machine SOUNDING drummer, Smitty did not roll that way and so Londin played on at least 10 of 11 tracks.

My question is why the change from Londin to Baird for the tour?

For the record I dig the drums on ROR.

Didn't Smith play on Positive Touch, Eyes of a Woman and WCTNGF?

[Red13JoePa]

Might've. I thought he only played on 1 song but it could have been more, no more than 3 though.


And the BEST drum parts are Londin's (I like the hard-hitting).

[Greg]

From what I read recently, Smitty played on three tracks from ROR. 1,10,and 11. Well, of course that is what Wikipedia said so I dont' know how accurate that is.

[Spike]

On the original liner notes for ROR, Smith is credited with Positive Touch, Eyes Of A Woman and Why Can't This Night ....

[Red13JoePa]

On the original liner notes for ROR, Smith is credited with Positive Touch.

My apologies to Smitty, then (and I believe this is right btw), b/c PT is awesome.

[ArnelRox]

My question is why the change from Londin to Baird for the tour?

Somewhere along the line someone told me Londin didnt like to go on the road & was stricty studio. I'm not sure if that's true. I also believe someone said he was already in poor health back then.

[PROPERRY]

Well I can't chosse between the two, both ROR and TBF are excellent cds! I enjoy both of them for the different styles of music, and for the WAY Perry sings on both cds.

[NealIsGod]

Well I can't chosse between the two, both ROR and TBF are excellent cds! I enjoy both of them for the different styles of music, and for the WAY Perry sings on both cds.

Great post!

[Red13JoePa]

Ya know, I ALWAYS forget Linus is a perry fan above ALL until I read the posts.

Then I'm somehow reminded.

[Rick]

Ya know, I ALWAYS forget Linus is a perry fan above ALL until I read the posts.

Then I'm somehow reminded.

LOL, she is devoted. You know his shit does stink don't you PP?