Europe "Secret Society"

[marco17]

Yeah, Europe was definitely underrated. Unfortunately, they fell victim to being associated solely with TFC and nothing else, not to mention, being forced to go more pop with Out of This World.

Rip... Did you pick up the "Live From The Dark" DVD? The grainy production sucked, but the concert is great.

Here's my take on all the albums since I have been a diehard Europe fan forever...

1.Europe-okay debut, a couple decent songs
2.Wings of Tomorrow-Harder rock vibe, strong follow up
3. Final Countdown-The Good/Bad/Ugly, has some rockers, but took the Journey approach, and became soft.. go figure produced by Kevin Elson... put them on the map, but for the most part made them a one hit wonder....Norum leaves the band, doesn't the like the direction they are going musically.
4. Out of This World-Maybe the best album overall, over-produced, and very pop-rock sounding. Nothing as big as TFC single wise, and very poor management decisions touring the US caused them to quickly fall off the radar. Some really good songs, very little filler.
5. Prisoners in Paradise-My favorite or 2nd favorite album.. much harder/edgier then OOTW, record company didn't promote because of the time of release...enter Nirvana/Pearl Jam, more of an LA-style rock record. They did a lot of demos known as LeBaron Boys which was basically the album. Record company didn't hear any "hits" made them write more songs. Many of the LeBaron Boys songs are incredible, but never made the final cut... should've been a 2 CD set and a classic. Of note, Norum hates most of the songs on this, so they only play Girl From Lebanon and Yesterday's News live...only ones he seems to like, or is willing to play.
6.1982-92, greatest hits... plus a couple B-side songs, Yesterdays News and Sweet Love Child
7. Start From the Dark-Darker, edgier, Norum back in the band as sole guitarist... some good tunes, some not so good. Was a quickly done, limited production album...done that way intentionally. Journey's Kevin Elson produced it
8. Secret Society-Maybe my favorite. Rocking songs, no real filler tracks, Andrew even gave it a good review and he's not a big Europe fan, better production.

[iLex]

Rip... Did you pick up the "Live From The Dark" DVD? The grainy production sucked, but the concert is great.

"Live from the dark" is awesome! Video quality sucks indeed but I've converted the DVD to mp3... playing it on my iPod and in my car all the time.
Here's of my favorites...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J_HAKyyr38
I saw them 2 years ago at a Belgian festival... Soul SirkUS played there too!

[StevePerryHair]

Rip... Did you pick up the "Live From The Dark" DVD? The grainy production sucked, but the concert is great.

"Live from the dark" is awesome! Video quality sucks indeed but I've converted the DVD to mp3... playing it on my iPod and in my car all the time.
Here's of my favorites...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J_HAKyyr38
I saw them 2 years ago at a Belgian festival... Soul SirkUS played there too!

Yep!! That is definitely one of the best parts of that DVD. LOVE the guitar solo leading up to this too. John Norum is awesome

[Behshad]

Rip... Did you pick up the "Live From The Dark" DVD? The grainy production sucked, but the concert is great.

"Live from the dark" is awesome! Video quality sucks indeed but I've converted the DVD to mp3... playing it on my iPod and in my car all the time.
Here's of my favorites...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J_HAKyyr38
I saw them 2 years ago at a Belgian festival... Soul SirkUS played there too!

Yep!! That is definitely one of the best parts of that DVD. LOVE the guitar solo leading up to this too. John Norum is awesome

Really!?

[StevePerryHair]

Rip... Did you pick up the "Live From The Dark" DVD? The grainy production sucked, but the concert is great.

"Live from the dark" is awesome! Video quality sucks indeed but I've converted the DVD to mp3... playing it on my iPod and in my car all the time.
Here's of my favorites...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J_HAKyyr38
I saw them 2 years ago at a Belgian festival... Soul SirkUS played there too!

Yep!! That is definitely one of the best parts of that DVD. LOVE the guitar solo leading up to this too. John Norum is awesome

Really!?

Yep!! You should watch it sometime

[Behshad]

Rip... Did you pick up the "Live From The Dark" DVD? The grainy production sucked, but the concert is great.

"Live from the dark" is awesome! Video quality sucks indeed but I've converted the DVD to mp3... playing it on my iPod and in my car all the time.
Here's of my favorites...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J_HAKyyr38
I saw them 2 years ago at a Belgian festival... Soul SirkUS played there too!

Yep!! That is definitely one of the best parts of that DVD. LOVE the guitar solo leading up to this too. John Norum is awesome

Really!?

Yep!! You should watch it sometime

I dont have a DVD player,,, is it out on VHS!?
(With that video quality it seems like it is VHS! )

[StevePerryHair]

Are there any other Europe dvd's worth owning besides Live from the Dark??

[Behshad]

Are there any other Europe dvd's worth owning besides Start from the Dark??

The Final Countdown 20th anniversary tour

[StevePerryHair]

Are there any other Europe dvd's worth owning besides Start from the Dark??

The Final Countdown 20th anniversary tour

Thanks! I'll check that one out

[Rip Rokken]

I bought my brother a jaw bone bluetooth headset..best on the market.. $119 black.. check it out.. www.jawbone.com

Is it really good? I've been asking people about their experiences w/Bluetooth headsets, because I've had 3 (2 Moto's and 1 Samsung), and they all suck! My friends say the same about theirs, no matter what the brand. All noisy at times, people on the other line complain about the sound quality, and they seem to lose their partnership often. I get halfway decent use out of my best one about 1/3 of the times I use it. If there really is a better one out there like this, I might try it.

[conversationpc]

I bought my brother a jaw bone bluetooth headset..best on the market.. $119 black.. check it out.. www.jawbone.com

Is it really good? I've been asking people about their experiences w/Bluetooth headsets, because I've had 3 (2 Moto's and 1 Samsung), and they all suck! My friends say the same about theirs, no matter what the brand. All noisy at times, people on the other line complain about the sound quality, and they seem to lose their partnership often. I get halfway decent use out of my best one about 1/3 of the times I use it. If there really is a better one out there like this, I might try it.

Is it just me or does anyone else hate people walking around with those things on. It looks like they are talking to themselves and, even worse than with just talking into a regular cell phone, they talk WAY too loud and interrupt just about everything within a half mile radius with their inane conversation.

[Rip Rokken]

Rip... Did you pick up the "Live From The Dark" DVD? The grainy production sucked, but the concert is great.

"Live from the dark" is awesome! Video quality sucks indeed but I've converted the DVD to mp3... playing it on my iPod and in my car all the time.
Here's of my favorites...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J_HAKyyr38
I saw them 2 years ago at a Belgian festival... Soul SirkUS played there too!

Hey, Marco and iLex -- No, I don't have it, but that clip ROCKS! Also Marco, I just discovered today that "Forever Traveling" is INDEED a tribute to Steve Perry and Neal Schon! Aside from the "Wheel In The Sky" reference, there is also one to the "City by the Bay", plus a lot more...

I searched back and found another thread about it, and wanting to give credit where it was due rather than creating another thread, I just resurrected it. Check it out here:

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=22668

[Behshad]

I bought my brother a jaw bone bluetooth headset..best on the market.. $119 black.. check it out.. www.jawbone.com

Is it really good? I've been asking people about their experiences w/Bluetooth headsets, because I've had 3 (2 Moto's and 1 Samsung), and they all suck! My friends say the same about theirs, no matter what the brand. All noisy at times, people on the other line complain about the sound quality, and they seem to lose their partnership often. I get halfway decent use out of my best one about 1/3 of the times I use it. If there really is a better one out there like this, I might try it.

Is it just me or does anyone else hate people walking around with those things on. It looks like they are talking to themselves and, even worse than with just talking into a regular cell phone, they talk WAY too loud and interrupt just about everything within a half mile radius with their inane conversation.

I agree Dave..... I understand if people use it in a car,,, but walkin around like that,,,, annoying,,,, and why do people talk SO loud like you said,,, and forget that there are other people around not interested in their conversation!

[conversationpc]

I agree Dave..... I understand if people use it in a car,,, but walkin around like that,,,, annoying,,,, and why do people talk SO loud like you said,,, and forget that there are other people around not interested in their conversation!

It's probably kinda like trying to talk while wearing headphones. Makes it harder to hear so the idiot just talks louder.

[Rip Rokken]

Is it just me or does anyone else hate people walking around with those things on. It looks like they are talking to themselves and, even worse than with just talking into a regular cell phone, they talk WAY too loud and interrupt just about everything within a half mile radius with their inane conversation.

It's completely obnoxious.... I only use mine as a hands-free while driving, or when I need to work with my hands while talking to someone (like tech support). I definitely don't walk around looking like Locutus of Borg.

By the way, I just ordered the 3-disc set of "Live From The Dark". I love watching these things when I'm on my elliptical machine, because they put me in a groove and they make the time fly by. Can't wait to see it!

[Rip Rokken]

It's probably kinda like trying to talk while wearing headphones. Makes it harder to hear so the idiot just talks louder.

No, I think some people are just that obnoxious. They are the same ones who talk loudly on their cell phones. You know the question I have is, today, people still gripe about these jerks, but I wonder if the day will come when that is the norm, and no longer considered out of place. You know -- just so many offenders that it becomes acceptable. What is and is not considered good manners unfortunately does change over time with new generations.

[Rick]

It's probably kinda like trying to talk while wearing headphones. Makes it harder to hear so the idiot just talks louder.

No, I think some people are just that obnoxious. They are the same ones who talk loudly on their cell phones. You know the question I have is, today, people still gripe about these jerks, but I wonder if the day will come when that is the norm, and no longer considered out of place. You know -- just so many offenders that it becomes acceptable. What is and is not considered good manners unfortunately does change over time with new generations.

I think the technology will get better so that people won't have trouble hearing, and won't have to shout. I sure hope so anyway. I have a bluetooth earpiece, and it works great. I primarily use it while driving or working. When I'm working, I'm in an empty airplane, so I'm not bothering anyone.

[Rhiannon]

I think the technology will get better so that people won't have trouble hearing, and won't have to shout. I sure hope so anyway. I have a bluetooth earpiece, and it works great. I primarily use it while driving or working. When I'm working, I'm in an empty airplane, so I'm not bothering anyone.

I had one, loved it for a few weeks. I was on the road constantly and it was a nice thing to have. But then, one day, driving... its in my ear, not touching my phone, nor the piece and it starts saying "Please say a command *BEEP*". Over and over again. I couldn't get it to stop. Turning the phone off and back on didn't help. "Please say a command *BEEP*". "Please say a command *BEEP*". Instead of just turning it off and laying it down, like a normal person, I became severely enraged, ripped it off my ear and threw it out the window into the mercy of tractor-trailer tires rolling along I-40W in Tennessee.

I'll never have another either.

[Natalie]

I think this thread has officially been hijacked!

My cell phone pet peeve-when patients come in to the hospital and I try to ask them questions and they are on the phone. I stand patiently by the bed waiting for them to say "I have to go, the nurse is here." But, most of the time, they don't, they just continue with their conversation....I give them a few minutes then I just interrupt them and say "I'll be back when you are done with your conversation" and I leave the room, on my return, a few minutes later, if they are still on the phone I hand them the nurse call light and say "when you are done, press this button so I can come in and evaluate you."

[Rip Rokken]

I had one, loved it for a few weeks. I was on the road constantly and it was a nice thing to have. But then, one day, driving... its in my ear, not touching my phone, nor the piece and it starts saying "Please say a command *BEEP*". Over and over again. I couldn't get it to stop. Turning the phone off and back on didn't help. "Please say a command *BEEP*". "Please say a command *BEEP*". Instead of just turning it off and laying it down, like a normal person, I became severely enraged, ripped it off my ear and threw it out the window into the mercy of tractor-trailer tires rolling along I-40W in Tennessee.

I can think of a few commands I would have shouted to it on the way out the window...

Main problems I have with all of mine are:

1) Rarely enough volume to hear the other person well when I'm in the car.

2) Hard to keep in place on my ear -- the Motorolas with the ear hooks don't work very well for me, so I got a Samsung earbud thinking the volume would be better -- it wasn't, and had a constant hiss when on.

3) Not always easy to turn on -- sometimes it takes holding the button down more than once, like trying to start a lawnmower for the first time in Spring.

4) Occasionally lose their association and I have to scan for them and re-enter the code.

5) Occasionally my Moto Razr would say it couldn't detect the Bluetooth controller, and I'd have to reboot it. I currently use an iPaq and am trying a BlackJack -- doubt I will have that same issue, because both my Razr's were CRAP.

In a nutsack, I spend more time screwing the the Bluetooth headsets than I should, and definitely enough to negate the benefits of having a "hands free" experience.

[Journey69]

It's probably kinda like trying to talk while wearing headphones. Makes it harder to hear so the idiot just talks louder.

No, I think some people are just that obnoxious. They are the same ones who talk loudly on their cell phones. You know the question I have is, today, people still gripe about these jerks, but I wonder if the day will come when that is the norm, and no longer considered out of place. You know -- just so many offenders that it becomes acceptable. What is and is not considered good manners unfortunately does change over time with new generations.

Its the only one with a noise shield.. Go to the website and check out the demo.. www.jawbone.com Honestly it works that good.. The people on the other end cannot hear all the outside noise..its awesome..I have one,I bought my brother one,he totally loves it..I told a guy at work who drives truck to get it,he loves it..You can find the silver ones online for about $79.. You will thank me if you get one!

[Journey69]

I had one, loved it for a few weeks. I was on the road constantly and it was a nice thing to have. But then, one day, driving... its in my ear, not touching my phone, nor the piece and it starts saying "Please say a command *BEEP*". Over and over again. I couldn't get it to stop. Turning the phone off and back on didn't help. "Please say a command *BEEP*". "Please say a command *BEEP*". Instead of just turning it off and laying it down, like a normal person, I became severely enraged, ripped it off my ear and threw it out the window into the mercy of tractor-trailer tires rolling along I-40W in Tennessee.

I can think of a few commands I would have shouted to it on the way out the window...

Main problems I have with all of mine are:

1) Rarely enough volume to hear the other person well when I'm in the car.

2) Hard to keep in place on my ear -- the Motorolas with the ear hooks don't work very well for me, so I got a Samsung earbud thinking the volume would be better -- it wasn't, and had a constant hiss when on.

3) Not always easy to turn on -- sometimes it takes holding the button down more than once, like trying to start a lawnmower for the first time in Spring.

4) Occasionally lose their association and I have to scan for them and re-enter the code.

5) Occasionally my Moto Razr would say it couldn't detect the Bluetooth controller, and I'd have to reboot it. I currently use an iPaq and am trying a BlackJack -- doubt I will have that same issue, because both my Razr's were CRAP.

In a nutsack, I spend more time screwing the the Bluetooth headsets than I should, and definitely enough to negate the benefits of having a "hands free" experience.

Also,you control the volume with your ph..its not on the ear piece..I have an iphone and it works awesome!

[Behshad]

Yeah, Europe was definitely underrated. Unfortunately, they fell victim to being associated solely with TFC and nothing else, not to mention, being forced to go more pop with Out of This World.

Rip... Did you pick up the "Live From The Dark" DVD? The grainy production sucked, but the concert is great.

Here's my take on all the albums since I have been a diehard Europe fan forever...

1.Europe-okay debut, a couple decent songs
2.Wings of Tomorrow-Harder rock vibe, strong follow up
3. Final Countdown-The Good/Bad/Ugly, has some rockers, but took the Journey approach, and became soft.. go figure produced by Kevin Elson... put them on the map, but for the most part made them a one hit wonder....Norum leaves the band, doesn't the like the direction they are going musically.
4. Out of This World-Maybe the best album overall, over-produced, and very pop-rock sounding. Nothing as big as TFC single wise, and very poor management decisions touring the US caused them to quickly fall off the radar. Some really good songs, very little filler.
5. Prisoners in Paradise-My favorite or 2nd favorite album.. much harder/edgier then OOTW, record company didn't promote because of the time of release...enter Nirvana/Pearl Jam, more of an LA-style rock record. They did a lot of demos known as LeBaron Boys which was basically the album. Record company didn't hear any "hits" made them write more songs. Many of the LeBaron Boys songs are incredible, but never made the final cut... should've been a 2 CD set and a classic. Of note, Norum hates most of the songs on this, so they only play Girl From Lebanon and Yesterday's News live...only ones he seems to like, or is willing to play.
6.1982-92, greatest hits... plus a couple B-side songs, Yesterdays News and Sweet Love Child
7. Start From the Dark-Darker, edgier, Norum back in the band as sole guitarist... some good tunes, some not so good. Was a quickly done, limited production album...done that way intentionally. Journey's Kevin Elson produced it
8. Secret Society-Maybe my favorite. Rocking songs, no real filler tracks, Andrew even gave it a good review and he's not a big Europe fan, better production.

I understand its all your opinion , but I really think that their 1st album is a hidden underrated gem.
Its one of the strongest debut albums Ive ever heard. The music is much harder than average Europe. Songs like "Memories" , "Paradize Bay" , "Children of this time" and "Seven doors hotel" are great classic tunes amongst Europe diehard fans.

Who told you Andrew isnt a Europe fan? Last I knew, he said he loves Europe....

[Journey69]

Yeah, Europe was definitely underrated. Unfortunately, they fell victim to being associated solely with TFC and nothing else, not to mention, being forced to go more pop with Out of This World.

Rip... Did you pick up the "Live From The Dark" DVD? The grainy production sucked, but the concert is great.

Here's my take on all the albums since I have been a diehard Europe fan forever...

1.Europe-okay debut, a couple decent songs
2.Wings of Tomorrow-Harder rock vibe, strong follow up
3. Final Countdown-The Good/Bad/Ugly, has some rockers, but took the Journey approach, and became soft.. go figure produced by Kevin Elson... put them on the map, but for the most part made them a one hit wonder....Norum leaves the band, doesn't the like the direction they are going musically.
4. Out of This World-Maybe the best album overall, over-produced, and very pop-rock sounding. Nothing as big as TFC single wise, and very poor management decisions touring the US caused them to quickly fall off the radar. Some really good songs, very little filler.
5. Prisoners in Paradise-My favorite or 2nd favorite album.. much harder/edgier then OOTW, record company didn't promote because of the time of release...enter Nirvana/Pearl Jam, more of an LA-style rock record. They did a lot of demos known as LeBaron Boys which was basically the album. Record company didn't hear any "hits" made them write more songs. Many of the LeBaron Boys songs are incredible, but never made the final cut... should've been a 2 CD set and a classic. Of note, Norum hates most of the songs on this, so they only play Girl From Lebanon and Yesterday's News live...only ones he seems to like, or is willing to play.
6.1982-92, greatest hits... plus a couple B-side songs, Yesterdays News and Sweet Love Child
7. Start From the Dark-Darker, edgier, Norum back in the band as sole guitarist... some good tunes, some not so good. Was a quickly done, limited production album...done that way intentionally. Journey's Kevin Elson produced it
8. Secret Society-Maybe my favorite. Rocking songs, no real filler tracks, Andrew even gave it a good review and he's not a big Europe fan, better production.

I understand its all your opinion , but I really think that their 1st album is a hidden underrated gem.
Its one of the strongest debut albums Ive ever heard. The music is much harder than average Europe. Songs like "Memories" , "Paradize Bay" , "Children of this time" and "Seven doors hotel" are great classic tunes amongst Europe diehard fans.

Who told you Andrew isnt a Europe fan? Last I knew, he said he loves Europe....

What's the 1st album called?

[Behshad]

Yeah, Europe was definitely underrated. Unfortunately, they fell victim to being associated solely with TFC and nothing else, not to mention, being forced to go more pop with Out of This World.

Rip... Did you pick up the "Live From The Dark" DVD? The grainy production sucked, but the concert is great.

Here's my take on all the albums since I have been a diehard Europe fan forever...

1.Europe-okay debut, a couple decent songs
2.Wings of Tomorrow-Harder rock vibe, strong follow up
3. Final Countdown-The Good/Bad/Ugly, has some rockers, but took the Journey approach, and became soft.. go figure produced by Kevin Elson... put them on the map, but for the most part made them a one hit wonder....Norum leaves the band, doesn't the like the direction they are going musically.
4. Out of This World-Maybe the best album overall, over-produced, and very pop-rock sounding. Nothing as big as TFC single wise, and very poor management decisions touring the US caused them to quickly fall off the radar. Some really good songs, very little filler.
5. Prisoners in Paradise-My favorite or 2nd favorite album.. much harder/edgier then OOTW, record company didn't promote because of the time of release...enter Nirvana/Pearl Jam, more of an LA-style rock record. They did a lot of demos known as LeBaron Boys which was basically the album. Record company didn't hear any "hits" made them write more songs. Many of the LeBaron Boys songs are incredible, but never made the final cut... should've been a 2 CD set and a classic. Of note, Norum hates most of the songs on this, so they only play Girl From Lebanon and Yesterday's News live...only ones he seems to like, or is willing to play.
6.1982-92, greatest hits... plus a couple B-side songs, Yesterdays News and Sweet Love Child
7. Start From the Dark-Darker, edgier, Norum back in the band as sole guitarist... some good tunes, some not so good. Was a quickly done, limited production album...done that way intentionally. Journey's Kevin Elson produced it
8. Secret Society-Maybe my favorite. Rocking songs, no real filler tracks, Andrew even gave it a good review and he's not a big Europe fan, better production.

I understand its all your opinion , but I really think that their 1st album is a hidden underrated gem.
Its one of the strongest debut albums Ive ever heard. The music is much harder than average Europe. Songs like "Memories" , "Paradize Bay" , "Children of this time" and "Seven doors hotel" are great classic tunes amongst Europe diehard fans.

Who told you Andrew isnt a Europe fan? Last I knew, he said he loves Europe....

What's the 1st album called?

Its just a self titled album.

[Rip Rokken]

3. Final Countdown-The Good/Bad/Ugly, has some rockers, but took the Journey approach, and became soft.. go figure produced by Kevin Elson... put them on the map, but for the most part made them a one hit wonder....Norum leaves the band, doesn't the like the direction they are going musically.
4. Out of This World-Maybe the best album overall, over-produced, and very pop-rock sounding. Nothing as big as TFC single wise, and very poor management decisions touring the US caused them to quickly fall off the radar. Some really good songs, very little filler.

Ya know, I've never heard the whole of either of those albums (just mainly the singles), but one thing I always noticed was the straight-up use of ASIA's "Only Time Will Tell" keyboard sound and style -- really identical. That was the first thing I thought when I first heard the single, "TFC", and also in "Superstitious". Now "Superstitious" really tripped me up on Europe when I first heard it, because the verses seemed like a rip-off of the Stevie Wonder track "Superstition". Was this an intentional writing decision? Just those few words, "I'm not superstitious" are sung in pretty much the same melody as the Wonder track ("Very superstitious"). I just hated it when it first came out.

Both those albums may have excellent songs, but I think the pop direction and production really killed them at the time, and it's a shame the labels did this to so many good bands. My early impressions were fleeting and not lasting. I remember back then thinking Joey Tempest was nothing a Bon Jovi-haired pretty boy with a childish pouty quality to his voice (like the way he sings, "No..." in "Superstitious" (1:35 into the song -- http://youtube.com/watch?v=sOetaP5fIIQ& )

But man, looking back with what I know now, you can tell how the labels' direction ran them into the ground. Still, those were great songs... they just gave me a bad early impression of what Europe was made of. Who'da thunk they'd become one of my favorite bands in just the past few years?!? Man, those guys rock, and I flat out love Joey Tempest's voice now. Great, very distinct tone.

[StevePerryHair]

3. Final Countdown-The Good/Bad/Ugly, has some rockers, but took the Journey approach, and became soft.. go figure produced by Kevin Elson... put them on the map, but for the most part made them a one hit wonder....Norum leaves the band, doesn't the like the direction they are going musically.
4. Out of This World-Maybe the best album overall, over-produced, and very pop-rock sounding. Nothing as big as TFC single wise, and very poor management decisions touring the US caused them to quickly fall off the radar. Some really good songs, very little filler.

Ya know, I've never heard the whole of either of those albums (just mainly the singles), but one thing I always noticed was the straight-up use of ASIA's "Only Time Will Tell" keyboard sound and style -- really identical. That was the first thing I thought when I first heard the single, "TFC", and also in "Superstitious". Now "Superstitious" really tripped me up on Europe when I first heard it, because the verses seemed like a rip-off of the Stevie Wonder track "Superstition". Was this an intentional writing decision? Just those few words, "I'm not superstitious" are sung in pretty much the same melody as the Wonder track ("Very superstitious"). I just hated it when it first came out.

Both those albums may have excellent songs, but I think the pop direction and production really killed them at the time, and it's a shame the labels did this to so many good bands. My early impressions were fleeting and not lasting. I remember back then thinking Joey Tempest was nothing a Bon Jovi-haired pretty boy with a childish pouty quality to his voice (like the way he sings, "No..." in "Superstitious" (1:35 into the song -- http://youtube.com/watch?v=sOetaP5fIIQ& )

But man, looking back with what I know now, you can tell how the labels' direction ran them into the ground. Still, those were great songs... they just gave me a bad early impression of what Europe was made of. Who'da thunk they'd become one of my favorite bands in just the past few years?!? Man, those guys rock, and I flat out love Joey Tempest's voice now. Great, very distinct tone.

He's done some solo work too. Not as heavy as the Europe music though.

[marco17]

I understand its all your opinion , but I really think that their 1st album is a hidden underrated gem.
Its one of the strongest debut albums Ive ever heard. The music is much harder than average Europe. Songs like "Memories" , "Paradize Bay" , "Children of this time" and "Seven doors hotel" are great classic tunes amongst Europe diehard fans.

Who told you Andrew isnt a Europe fan? Last I knew, he said he loves Europe.... [/quote]

No man, you're right, it's not a bad album, and you noted my favs off the record. It just isn't one my favorites. Might be wrong about Andrew's opinion about Europe, I just remember one time cooresponding with him or seeing something where he mentioned he liked them, but wasn't a huge fan. Maybe my memory is deceiving me.

[marco17]

But man, looking back with what I know now, you can tell how the labels' direction ran them into the ground. Still, those were great songs... they just gave me a bad early impression of what Europe was made of. Who'da thunk they'd become one of my favorite bands in just the past few years?!? Man, those guys rock, and I flat out love Joey Tempest's voice now. Great, very distinct tone.[/quote]

[color=blue]Yeah, I think that is what really killed them in the long run and they got labeled because of their appearance and the pop-rock songs. 90% of people have no idea that they really weren't that type of band. And, they have been smart over the years.. Joey still has a great voice, but they know with age he can't sign quite as high, so they wised up and have dropped the key down on some of the older songs so it doesn't blow Joey's voice out. And, I know some argue that it will dramatically change the sound, but I saw them 3 times when they were on the East Coast for the SFTD club tour and it sure didn't detract from the songs or their sound. Something maybe our boys in Journey should have thought about so they didn't blow out Augeri's voice, but that's another discussion for another day. But, at least on the MR boards, I am in the minority, I always liked Augeri.