In All Honesty....

[Enigma869]

I fully disagree here. You must be forgetting your history here.

The history is that Neal formed Journey back in 1973 and the band toiled away in complete obscurity, until 1977. As far as I know, the only thing that happened with Journey in 1977 is a guy by the name of Steve Perry was brought into the band. His voice is what finally put the band Journey on the map. Neal's guitar was there 4 years before Perry got there, and Journey remained irrelevant for all 4 years!

Neal Schon was asked by both Santana and Clapton to play with them. The guy was a success before he even knew Perrys name.

Neal was and is an IMMENSE musician! Anytime I hear a band playing a Journey cover, two things always jump out...Perry's vocals are sorely missing, and Neal's guitar is sorely missing. I'm not a musician, and honestly don't know much about the guitar. Having said that, it is VERY noticeable to my ears when it's not Neal jamming on a Journey track!

Just because he went balls out and did it on his own does not mean that he needed Perry. Its really the other way around if ya think about it.

Um, no it isn't! There isn't much to "think" about here, as the facts are pretty well known! As I've already pointed out, Journey existed FOUR years before Perry was brought into the band! That is a fact! It is also a fact that Journey had ZERO success before Perry was brought into the band! If you know the history of Journey, then you know damn well that Journey and Neal DESPERATELY needed Perry's voice, and later, Cain's song writing brilliance!

Neal is the only one in the band that had some real success before AND after the classic Journey line up.

I disagree completely with this assertion, on all levels! As a disclaimer, let me repeat that I think Neal is a BRILLIANT musician. Having said that, Schon has had ZERO success with Journey, since Perry departed the band! For the record, I am not referring to concerts that sell out, based on the Journey name. Journey is a strong touring act because of the wide recognition of their catalog of music, that was built on Perry's soaring vocals! As I've said before, if Neal was out touring, and calling it "The Neal Schon Experience", he wouldn't sell out a high school cafeteria!

Case in Point-
Before Journey, Santana. Freaking Santana!!!!! At 15.

I don't know enough about Santana or how long Neal was even performing with Santana (I don't think it was very long) to comment on what role the 15 year old Schon had in the success of Carlos Santana. That said, Schon was obviously recognized as a brilliant musician to even be offered these gigs when he was "a baby", as he referred to himself, then.

After Journey, circa 86.... Voice, was nominated for a Grammy.

Grammy awards are about as significant being inducted into the Rock and Roll HOF! They mean absolutely NOTHING, and validate NOTHING! All you need to know about the Grammies is that Journey never won a single one of them, in spite of their brilliant catalog of music!

Bad English had a couple number 1's... not in that order but compared to Street Talk and FTLOSM, it kinda puts things in perspective.

This is simply FALSE! Bad English had ONE number 1 hit, not "a couple"! Their only number one hit was the SUPER cheeseball "When I See You Smile", and knowing Neal's history, I'm sure he isn't laying claim to that suckass song! It's sort of like "Open Arms" for Journey. I'm not sure Neal even picked up the guitar on WISYS! I think giving Neal credit for that is a bit of a stretch, at best! As for top 40 hits...Bad English had 3 top 40 hits (most people have probably only heard the one that hit number 1). Perry had 5 top 40 hits, as a solo artist, and I would argue that "Oh Sherrie" (even though it only hit number 3) was every bit as well known and popular as "WISYS" was. The difference is that Perry's voice put "Oh Sherrie" on the radio, while Neal's guitar wasn't even heard on "WISYS"! The bottom line is that Perry and Schon together were ALWAYS better than they were, when not together! I just think it's absurd to suggest that Perry had no success without Schon, because the facts certainly don't support the claim!


John from Boston

[Monker]

Herbie Herbert...nobody in the band comes close.

[Enigma869]

By far it's Neal Schon. Journey's sound lays sorely on the fingers of Schon

This is officially one of the most dopey things I've ever read on this site! Journey's sound lays on the fingers of Schon??? What the hell are you smoking? Do me a favor...Go put in the 1981 Houston DVD, and listen to Perry sing "Mother/Father", and then come back here and tell me it's all Schon! For you to suggest that Perry just happened to be in the right place at the right time is even more moronic! Dude...check your Journey history! It was Perry's IMMENSE vocal talents that even got Journey played on the radio, not Neal's "axe" work!

Neal's guitar work is just as equally god like to the music as is Perry's voice of the vocals.

This, we agree on!

Plus, Neal has been on EVERY EXISTING JOURNEY RECORD from day one. The guys a rock god.

Being on every existing Journey record doesn't really mean much, considering it was Neal's band and Neal who put the band together! Of course he's on every album they've ever done! While Schon may well be a "rock god", as you put it...It doesn't change the fact that until Neal got a voice that his guitar could harmonize with, the average music fan never heard of the guy! While you very well may appreciate the guitar (as do I), the reality is that the vast majority of music fans aren't purchasing music and attending concerts to listen to guitar riffs!


John from Boston

[YoungJRNY]

This is officially one of the most dopey things I've ever read on this site! Journey's sound lays on the fingers of Schon??? What the hell are you smoking? Do me a favor...Go put in the 1981 Houston DVD, and listen to Perry sing "Mother/Father", and then come back here and tell me it's all Schon! For you to suggest that Perry just happened to be in the right place at the right time is even more moronic! Dude...check your Journey history! It was Perry's IMMENSE vocal talents that even got Journey played on the radio, not Neal's "axe" work!

This is really a mute point to be honest with you. It's a really hard argument to judge ones beliefs on this subject alone. Remember now, it's Neal's guitar and the music behind Perry or whoever sings lead, that the lead vocalist sings to, and that goes for anybody who has ever sung a song in there lifetime. Of course Perry put the band on the map and made it what it was and is today, but Neal has just as many solo's on his guitar on every Journey song, than Steve Perry or any other of the lead singers in recent years This point goes hand in hand. They both need each other so to speak. Perry can take off and run a show with his singing alone, and Schon can take a show and blow it up with guitar solos. You put the two together, and BAM, you have greatness.

Being on every existing Journey record doesn't really mean much, considering it was Neal's band and Neal who put the band together! Of course he's on every album they've ever done! While Schon may well be a "rock god", as you put it...It doesn't change the fact that until Neal got a voice that his guitar could harmonize with, the average music fan never heard of the guy! While you very well may appreciate the guitar (as do I), the reality is that the vast majority of music fans aren't purchasing music and attending concerts to listen to guitar riffs!

Very true indeed. No one goes to the concerts to hear a guitar rift for sure. But, little does everyone know, it's subconsciously embedded in your brain. Remember that time you went to that one show, and you were focusing in and trying to sing louder and hear yourself sing with the singer on stage? I bet you were giving the air guitar with it. To really appreciate ones vocals, you must hear the lead guitar in your brain. You might not know it, but it damn is a big part on why you can co exist with the lead singer. Same goes for every other instrument that a band member plays. Nice argument to have, but...one does compliment the other a LITTLE bit more than what people might think. That's just my .2 cents anyway.

[YoungJRNY]

Whoa, for some reason the post of the quotes worked backwards. That's odd. I checked to edit a couple times but everything would seem right. hmmm..weird.

[7 Wishes]

Neal, by a hair breadth over Steve.

BTW there is only ONE Steve.

[7 Wishes]

By far it's Neal Schon. Journey's sound lays sorely on the fingers of Schon.

Holy crap! That sounds painful! Is this part of a prostate exam, or a H&P?

[scarygirl]

I voted Perry. The voice is the most important voice as has obviously been proven over the last 3 years. Without Perry, Journey never makes it. Without Perry, Neal might not ever really "make it."

Neal is amazing to be sure, but it's clear he has struggled since Perry left.

The Loons in Loon City swoon at that statement, and say "thank you."

[Vladan]

Plain and simple question. Look just have a glance at the poll, see what the masses say.

Steve Perry, without a doubt. Simply because at the the height of of career, comparing Perry to his other Peer Vocalists, Perry shines above the rest - you would be hard pressed to find any of those singers to disagree with that.

Neal Schon is amazing, I love his work. But at the height of his career, he simply did not shine above the rest of his peers and stood out.

[StoneCold]

On a poll for hardest working Journeyman. Neal should take that one down.

Pure talent I say Perry but Smith is up there too.

[annie89509]

I bow to JohnfromBoston's internet skills. He knows how to crypt posters individual statements and present his arguments point by point, whereas I only know how to highlight the whole post.

John already refuted this assertion very adequately, but I just wanted to add my own take on the assertion that Neal solo was more successful than SP solo. This statement is simply laughable. How many people, other than those on this and other J forums, have bought or even heard of any of Neal's solo work? OhSherrie, Foolish Heart, and You Better Wait are still being played on Classic Rock/Easy Listening radio stations all over America. ST went double Platinum; FTLOSM Gold. I don't know for sure, but I would venture to guess that all Neal records combined has not sold 100K, let alone 500K.

[jrnyman28]

I bow to JohnfromBoston's internet skills. He knows how to crypt posters individual statements and present his arguments point by point, whereas I only know how to highlight the whole post.

He is good at that isn't he?

but I just wanted to add my own take on the assertion that Neal solo was more successful than SP solo. This statement is simply laughable.

I actually agree. Maybe if you add TOTAL number of albums sold Neal MIGHT have sold more...if you count Schon/Hammer and HSAS as solo work. Maybe if you don't call it solo work and only call it work outside Journey. Then you can add Hardline and Bad English. Then Neal definately would be more successful.

OhSherrie, Foolish Heart, and You Better Wait are still being played on Classic Rock/Easy Listening radio stations all over America.

WHAT? I have not heard YBW on the radio SINCE 1994....

ST went double Platinum; FTLOSM Gold. I don't know for sure, but I would venture to guess that all Neal records combined has not sold 100K, let alone 500K.

Well, since I mentioned this abouve, I would have to disagree here. Late Nite I am sure did at least GOLD. Voice may have done well because of the Grammy nom. The first Schon/Hammer album should have done fair as well. (Of course we are back to whether that is included since it is not technically Neal Schon solo...)

[jrnyman28]

BTW, Street Talk was certified double platinum in 1990.

[Red13JoePa]

I voted Perry. The voice is the most important voice as has obviously been proven over the last 3 years. Without Perry, Journey never makes it. Without Perry, Neal might not ever really "make it."

Neal is amazing to be sure, but it's clear he has struggled since Perry left.

The Loons in Loon City swoon at that statement, and say "thank you."

Yea, well don't swoon.
He's so full of shit on this one his eyes are brown.
See, problem is he KNOWS the truth, has BROADCAST the truth here for years but in the past year something has,, er "changed."

[annie89509]

And you are very good at it too, J28. On this board, you and TNC are the original masters of the crypt debaters. In fact, if memory serves, when you and JfromB were both at BT, you were the one that taught John. I recall an exchange when he asked you how to do it. I may need the same tip, lol.

Getting back on topic, yes, I was referring to strictly "solo" albums, not counting the many Neal collaborations with other artists and in other bands. You have to hand it to Neal, he sure accomplished a lot of material.

And, oh, I have heard YBW on radio here in Reno. Can't really speak for anywhere else.

[annie89509]

I voted Perry. The voice is the most important voice as has obviously been proven over the last 3 years. Without Perry, Journey never makes it. Without Perry, Neal might not ever really "make it."

Neal is amazing to be sure, but it's clear he has struggled since Perry left.

The Loons in Loon City swoon at that statement, and say "thank you."

Yea, well don't swoon.
He's so full of shit on this one his eyes are brown.
See, problem is he KNOWS the truth, has BROADCAST the truth here for years but in the past year something has,, er "changed."

Brown is not his original color?
RedJoe speaks the truth. Many moons ago, Deano declared "war on the loons" time and time again.
Maybe, he's "seen the light"? Or, how about: "if you can't beat them, join them"?

[Matthew]

I voted Perry. The voice is the most important voice as has obviously been proven over the last 3 years. Without Perry, Journey never makes it. Without Perry, Neal might not ever really "make it."

Neal is amazing to be sure, but it's clear he has struggled since Perry left.

The Loons in Loon City swoon at that statement, and say "thank you."

Yea, well don't swoon.
He's so full of shit on this one his eyes are brown.
See, problem is he KNOWS the truth, has BROADCAST the truth here for years but in the past year something has,, er "changed."

Red - yes, Deano has changed his line on this many times but I do think he's broadcasting the truth in that post. I'd say though that he's always struck me as a fan of Schon primarily - so I would have expected him to vote for Schon whilst acknowledging how lukewarm his career has been without Perry.

[FinnFreak]

Steve Perry - the vocals are a focal point in Journey's material.

[Matthew]

Neal Schon is amazing, I love his work. But at the height of his career, he simply did not shine above the rest of his peers and stood out.

Do you really think that, Vladan? For me Schon was one of the most distinctive guitarists of them all in the 70s and 80s. In recent years he's lost some of the individuality in his playing but the guy is still breath-takingly good and to this day shines more brightly than any other guitarist in his generation. Other truly distinctive players like - say - Schenker or Van Halen aren't nearly as good as they used to be twenty years ago. While Schon is still on top of his game.

As for the poll...for me it's an even split between Perry and Schon.

[Jenna]

I think that the talent of Cain and Schon was given life ---with the talent of SP's voice-