Pre-Herbie Interview

[stevew2]

Herbie saw Journey with Steve A, and said he he made them songs his own {close to it ,Ill be corrected Im sure} I agreed. He was a pimp but,with out him, Journey wouldnt have done shit. Since they let him go, they havent done that well either

[Cate]

Herbie took some dough (allegedly) and Perry took 12 years (1986-1998) from the band. Which is worse?

dude...do you know what ethics are?
stealing is stealing. That was Herbie's choice. No need to deflect the issue with Steve Perry smoke and mirrors.

Stealing 12 years of a band's artistic life is priceless. Not to mention ripping the 75 million dollars away from them because you never planned on touring. What did Herbie Hamburglar steal...a few fucking Happy Meals?

You don't know the extent of the damage HH caused. The Corporation was dissolved because of HH. He was also about to 'Breakground" on his big project {again funded by the band without their knowledge} when Steve was told by an employee in the office.
HH did do some great things and he will be the first to tell you again and again.He also gives Himself credit for everything great everyone else has ever done !

Steve Perry was the goose that layed the golden egg for HH..

[r@y]

A few thoughts here. Let me preface this by saying none of these band members are saints. And as for as the allusions to drug use among some members, I think it is pretty safe to say that all the members at one time or another have partaken of an illegal substance or two, or three, or ........

-------------
Perry and Herbie began butting heads shortly after Perry joined the band. I think that much has been established. This directly leads to HH dismissal for TBF, IMO.

Cain may not have been "whole-heartedly" behind the decisicion to fire HH during TBF, but then again it has been established the HH and the Frig's relationship was not the best. In fact HH seems to have quite the disdain for Friga.

As for HH comments about Schon not being the sharpest knife in the drawer (being stupid), I think he refers to Schon's business and carreer decisions. Schon always seems to follow what he assumes is going to bring him the most money. And after HH had proved himself to Neal early on, Neal still chose to go in directions opposite of HH. Example 1 -going along with having Perry as producer of ROR and going along with the dismissal of two long time band mates. Not sure if Neal had a whole lot of control over the situation, but again just went along with the "money making" machine (did not take a stand). This after Perry had already expressed reservations about returning to the Journey. Example 2- cans the early Journey reunion lineup featuring Chalfant and Rolie in favor of TBF with Perry (after Perry dissappearing act no1). Made some money off the record, disappearing act no.2, no tour, and that was it. Not the right business move in my opinion or Herbie's. So is Neal "stupid"? It is not hard to see why HH would characterize him that way IMO.

As for the Perry's "I'm toast. I need to take a break" comments during the ROR tour, that is understandable. They work hard for a long, long time. What is not understandable or acceptable, was a lack of communication or timetable for a return, if there was to be any return at all. And how convenient that Mr P decided to return shortly after he caught word of the Chalfant/Rolie reunion in the works.

Do I have proof/quotes to back up everything that I have stated here. For some yes, but, not for everything. What I do have is a timeline of events and a bit of business and life wisdom to draw upon. These are my opinions based on what I have observed from the outside.

Good post...HOWEVER, Neal didn't go "along" with Perry, and against Herbie, because he wanted to...he did so because he had to. Perry parlayed being the band's "voice" and most recognizable member into a Trillion dollars of prick capital after the Frontiers tour. He basically used the aforementioned power to start hiring, firing, and taking any sort of creative control he wanted. Had he chosen to do a fucking "Big Band" album it couldn't have been vetoed. Notice this, too...Frontiers was the height of the band's popularity. They sold (I'm almost certain) their most WORLDWIDE albums and made the most money off of that tour. Right after that, under Perry's control moreso than Herbie Hamburger's, the band took a header like George Michael into a bag of dicks. ROR, while a decent album, was a huge step down from their prior heights. After that, the "new" guy in control stayed shelved until he decided to tour with some other, half-assed artists. He then decided to come back to Journey, record an album, fire Herbie, and retire to full-time cat petting...leaving the band completely FUCKED after they waited 12 years for him (1986-1998). And again, they had to bring Perry back in 1996 and he knew it. Fans would have burned down venues if that "other" lineup would have toured while Perry belly-ached how he "wished he were still part of the band." He had them cornered. The results were going to be in his favor either way. Dude is smart. So was Hitler.

Guys, I might be wrong here but didn't Sony had some part to play as well in the reunion..? Something along the lines of " ...we'll push for more marketing for your FTLOSM album, IF you agree to reunite with Journey and make an album.." ?


I must've read it somewhere...


Ray

I don't think he came back willingly...
I remember reading something bout how Sony wouldn't promote FTLOSM unless Perry agreed to do a Journey album with ONLY the Escape lineup.

Did I dream that???

It's gotta be!

Nice one, Rick...but no, I didn't read brywool's response. So that means I was right, I did read it somewhere...LOL..!


Ray

[Rick]

Nice one, Rick...but no, I didn't read brywool's response. So that means I was right, I did read it somewhere...LOL..!


Ray

I know you didn't, but two people saying nearly the same thing makes me think it must be true.

[Memorex]

Nice one, Rick...but no, I didn't read brywool's response. So that means I was right, I did read it somewhere...LOL..!


Ray

I know you didn't, but two people saying nearly the same thing makes me think it must be true.

Make that three.

[Big J]

This is a great start to the pre-interview debates. People are arguing civilly. JoePa is ahead on points, though.

No, RedJoanne is not ahead on points. Mike has thoroughly dissected this and has some valid points. I love Joanne, but dude is mostly cheering for a certain side and not looking at this from a central view.

Tell me this interview isn't going to either tear this Board apart, cause about 569 new headaches, or ruin the board altogether.

You better get some new moderators Andrew or create a special forum called Herbie Interview.

God help us.

Nah, it'll be fine, at least until you switch sides again.

[Moon Beam]

r@y your Av is Schweet Sir.

[Matthew]

25 years ago?

It continued in 1998 when HE refused to work...

Or couldn't. None of us know the truth about this.

refused to 1et the band work without him (1987 de javu)

No, he refused to tour. He couldn't stop the band from continuing without him, unfortunately...which hardly needs saying given the sorry tale of the last ten years.

and then 1awyered up and got himse1f a SWEET no show job that wou1d make most mafia underbosses envious for 10 more years.

Amusing way of putting it Red - but not exactly accurate. I mean it was hardly money for nothing given that they were touring on the back of his songwriting and reputation. He put the sweat in two decades earlier.

That's c1assy?

Retiring more or less at the top is very classy. It just is.

[Matthew]

Journey waited for Steve Perry for TWELVE YEARS!!! And they were willing to wait for his surgery (if indeed there was one) but after almost a year and a half he hadn't even decided if he was going to have said surgery. After TWELVE years of waiting I think they saw the shell game being played and decided to move on.

What's got into you recently Saint John? You used to talk sense - but now every time I log on here you're on banging on about what a turd Perry is. For fuck's sake...the guy retired TEN YEARS AGO. And I'm glad you've had a blameless life but guess what...Perry hasn't....and nor has the rest of the world. It really isn't a big deal.

As for this old chestnut about Perry 'victimizing' Schon and Cain. Look...Journey's sales were in freefall in the late 80s....and the musical climate was radically changing....so who's to say Journey would have made it through those ten years even if Perry was at the top of his game. Isn't it just possible that Perry walked away at just the right time?

Also Schon and Cain made the CHOICE to not revive Journey for those ten years and they had a fair amount of success with Bad English. So they didn't suffer that much. We're hardly talking about Darfur here are we?

Red - who has always been eccentric and contrary on the issue of Perry - says that you're suddenly 'enlightened' about Perry. The thing is....you never struck me as a cheeerleader type in the first place so God knows what your motive is Saint John.

My theory is that you're pissed off because - finally - it seems inevitable that Perry isn't coming back. You predicted a comeback over and over again...and now in 2008 you've surrendered to the reality that it's over.

That January birthday message was the final straw...no mention of any plans to record or tour...just a few dewy-eyed anecdotes about playing with his snowman is a kid.

Am I wrong?

[Deb]

Journey waited for Steve Perry for TWELVE YEARS!!! And they were willing to wait for his surgery (if indeed there was one) but after almost a year and a half he hadn't even decided if he was going to have said surgery. After TWELVE years of waiting I think they saw the shell game being played and decided to move on.

What's got into you recently Saint John? You used to talk sense - but now every time I log on here you're on banging on about what a turd Perry is. For fuck's sake...the guy retired TEN YEARS AGO. And I'm glad you've had a blameless life but guess what...Perry hasn't....and nor has the rest of the world. It really isn't a big deal.

As for this old chestnut about Perry 'victimizing' Schon and Cain. Look...Journey's sales were in freefall in the late 80s....and the musical climate was radically changing....so who's to say Journey would have made it through those ten years even if Perry was at the top of his game. Isn't it just possible that Perry walked away at just the right time?

Also Schon and Cain made the CHOICE to not revive Journey for those ten years and they had a fair amount of success with Bad English. So they didn't suffer that much. We're hardly talking about Darfur here are we?

Red - who has always been eccentric and contrary on the issue of Perry - says that you're suddenly 'enlightened' about Perry. The thing is....you never struck me as a cheeerleader type in the first place so God knows what your motive is Saint John.

My theory is that you're pissed off because - finally - it seems inevitable that Perry isn't coming back. You predicted a comeback over and over again...and now in 2008 you've surrendered to the reality that it's over.

That January birthday message was the final straw...no mention of any plans to record or tour...just a few dewy-eyed anecdotes about playing with his snowman is a kid.

Am I wrong?

I think that's exactly it, so go easy on him Matty. He's taking it pretty hard and just lashing out.

[SteveForever]

You are right!

[Red13JoePa]

God, Stevie F.
Was your penetrating insight there worth the bandwith of quoting Matto?

Matt, you and I wi11 continue to agree to disagree on the issue of '87-'95 as it pertains to Journey and perry and the mutua1 understanding or 1ack thereof of their continuance together.

That said, a1ways a p1easure reading your posts b/c they're thought out and written we11.
Easy on the eyes and mind.

[Moon Beam]

JoePa I must ask.....
Do I bother you with my screwy sentences as much as your
lacking "l" "1" key does me?

[SteveForever]

I fixed it....thanks for the subtle hint.

[Rick]

I fixed it....thanks for the subtle hint.

You rebooted your computer didn't you? THAT'S what it was. You're good.