Revelation = Frontiers/Escape???

[Greg]

I've heard a lot of comparison from people about Revelation being the best album Journey has had out since Frontiers. Agree or disagree (and I disagree) this debate has been showing up lately. But, one thing I've noticed that these albums have in common, and this could be the reason for the comparison, is the fact that all three albums have 11 or fewer songs on them. And ignore the re-releases of Escape and Frontiers, I'm judging this on the original releases.

People are putting Revelation above Generations, and I certainly give you that one (save for Faith In The Heartland.) But, people are putting this album above Raised on Radio, Trial By Fire, and Arrival. I'd say you have a good debate in regards to Raised on Radio, since it was the least "Journey" sounding album out of the ones released during the 80's. But, people say how soft TBF was, and certainly you can debate Arrival. However, those two albums had a few too many songs on them. Yes, too many ballads (although Arrival was much "rockier" than TBF,) but too many songs in general. Let's face it, The great Journey albums with Cain, Perry, and Schon all had 11 or fewer songs on them. Revelation just has 11 songs, although I have a feeling a lot of people skip the instrumental and repeat the ten vocal songs.

In the end, I realize it still comes down to personal taste, but I believe when you, as an artist, limit your albums to 10 songs, you have to make sure those are the top ten songs from your writing sessions. 14 to 16 songs usually means you're trying to put everything on the album, and that can sometimes mess up the flow the album, if not destroy it all together. I believe Arrival is a tough album to go up against at any rate, but I think it could've stood up to many of the Perry fronted albums if it was limited to 10 songs. 15 songs is too many, and it had too many ballads on it for my tastes. So, in summary, I believe the track amount is a sub-conscious reason for deciding an album is great, good, or just ok.

[ProgRocker53]

Hey Greg, some VERY good points you've made on this post and alot of it has indeed highlighted why I rate Revelation as a top-5/6 Journey album.

It's short enough to leave me wanting more yet long enough to give a great "album" feeling. It has great flow and isn't bogged down by wedding ballads and mournful dreck the way TBF and Arrival were.

ROR, while not exactly the closest to my personal taste out of a lot of Journey albums, and shrouded in controversy, is one that I appreciate VERY much. It was something completely different, and the band seemed to explore a different sonic plane that they had not touched yet. I rate Revelation above ROR if for no other fact that I'm just not a big fan of that type of music (while I actually really enjoy the album when I'm in the right mood).

[Centaure]

Actually they didn't put everything on TBF and Arrival, there were a lot of songs written for thoses records.

For Arrival, Kevin Shirley actually pick all the ballads for the 1st version that eventually leaked onto the internet. Fans didn't want another album full of ballads (like TBF) so they put pressure on the band for more rockers ! They put World Gone Wild, Nothin' Come Close and To Be Alive Again on the 2nd version of Arrival. It was actually the good move to do since a lot of fans love that album.

Schon and Shirley had a fight about that. That is probably why he didn't want to work with him again. Obviously Shirley didn't make that mistake again for Revelation.

Personally, I don't care how long is the album. For me, more is the better.

[Greg]

Actually they didn't put everything on TBF and Arrival, there were a lot of songs written for thoses records.

For Arrival, Kevin Shirley actually pick all the ballads for the 1st version that eventually leaked onto the internet. Fans didn't want another album full of ballads (like TBF) so they put pressure on the band for more rockers ! They put World Gone Wild, Nothin' Come Close and To Be Alive Again on the 2nd version of Arrival. It was actually the good move to do since a lot of fans love that album.

Schon and Shirley had a fight about that. That is probably why he didn't want to work with him again. Obviously Shirley didn't make that mistake again for Revelation.

Personally, I don't care how long is the album. For me, more is the better.

I'm sure there were plenty of songs written for those albums that didn't make the cut. However, I believe if you are going to put 15 or more songs on one album, it had better be 15 songs that really stand out. Now, I LOVE Trial By Fire. Sure, I wish there could've been more rockers on the album, but I'd rather have well written songs that keep my attention on one album (even if they are mid tempos and ballads) rather than an album full of "filler" material. I'm wondering though, if Trial By Fire was a 10 song album, and the only ballads on the entire album were When You Love A Woman and say, the title track, how would have people responded to the album?

I think Journey was wise in putting out an album that had no more than ten vocal tracks. It allows less room for error, and I think you get a better quality album.

Side note, I'd love to hear the songs that were left off of Trial By Fire and Arrival.

[ProgRocker53]

Actually they didn't put everything on TBF and Arrival, there were a lot of songs written for thoses records.

For Arrival, Kevin Shirley actually pick all the ballads for the 1st version that eventually leaked onto the internet. Fans didn't want another album full of ballads (like TBF) so they put pressure on the band for more rockers ! They put World Gone Wild, Nothin' Come Close and To Be Alive Again on the 2nd version of Arrival. It was actually the good move to do since a lot of fans love that album.

Schon and Shirley had a fight about that. That is probably why he didn't want to work with him again. Obviously Shirley didn't make that mistake again for Revelation.

Personally, I don't care how long is the album. For me, more is the better.

I'm sure there were plenty of songs written for those albums that didn't make the cut. However, I believe if you are going to put 15 or more songs on one album, it had better be 15 songs that really stand out. Now, I LOVE Trial By Fire. Sure, I wish there could've been more rockers on the album, but I'd rather have well written songs that keep my attention on one album (even if they are mid tempos and ballads) rather than an album full of "filler" material. I'm wondering though, if Trial By Fire was a 10 song album, and the only ballads on the entire album were When You Love A Woman and say, the title track, how would have people responded to the album?

I think Journey was wise in putting out an album that had no more than ten vocal tracks. It allows less room for error, and I think you get a better quality album.

Side note, I'd love to hear the songs that were left off of Trial By Fire and Arrival.

If TBF had the following tracklist it would be a MUCH better album.

1. Message of Love
2. One More
3. When You Love A Woman
4. If He Should Break Your Heart
5. Forever in Blue
6. Still She Cries
7. Colors of the Spirit
8. Can't Tame the Lion
9. I Can See It In Your Eyes
10. Easy to Fall
11. Trial By Fire

4 rockers, 4 mid-tempo, 3 ballads.

[Centaure]

Good work ProgRocker53,

Yeah I know that if you see an album as a whole or a critic side, less is more. But because I am a die-hard Journey fan, all I want is more music from them !

[ProgRocker53]

Good work ProgRocker53,

Yeah I know that if you see an album as a whole or a critic side, less is more. But because I am a die-hard Journey fan, all I want is more music from them !

Great point, with wanting more music as a Journey fan.

However, an easy way to satisfy those of us Journey fans who crave endless waves of music, is to do what Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree does...

It seems like every four months there's a new Porcupine Tree album, EP, vinyl, live album, outtakes collection, or whatever released... the main albums are concise and well-stated while there's still plenty of good music on the other, smaller releases.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Actually they didn't put everything on TBF and Arrival, there were a lot of songs written for thoses records.

For Arrival, Kevin Shirley actually pick all the ballads for the 1st version that eventually leaked onto the internet. Fans didn't want another album full of ballads (like TBF) so they put pressure on the band for more rockers ! They put World Gone Wild, Nothin' Come Close and To Be Alive Again on the 2nd version of Arrival. It was actually the good move to do since a lot of fans love that album.

Schon and Shirley had a fight about that. That is probably why he didn't want to work with him again. Obviously Shirley didn't make that mistake again for Revelation.

Personally, I don't care how long is the album. For me, more is the better.

I'm sure there were plenty of songs written for those albums that didn't make the cut. However, I believe if you are going to put 15 or more songs on one album, it had better be 15 songs that really stand out. Now, I LOVE Trial By Fire. Sure, I wish there could've been more rockers on the album, but I'd rather have well written songs that keep my attention on one album (even if they are mid tempos and ballads) rather than an album full of "filler" material. I'm wondering though, if Trial By Fire was a 10 song album, and the only ballads on the entire album were When You Love A Woman and say, the title track, how would have people responded to the album?

I think Journey was wise in putting out an album that had no more than ten vocal tracks. It allows less room for error, and I think you get a better quality album.

Side note, I'd love to hear the songs that were left off of Trial By Fire and Arrival.

If TBF had the following tracklist it would be a MUCH better album.

1. Message of Love
2. One More
3. When You Love A Woman
4. If He Should Break Your Heart
5. Forever in Blue
6. Still She Cries
7. Colors of the Spirit
8. Can't Tame the Lion
9. I Can See It In Your Eyes
10. Easy to Fall
11. Trial By Fire

4 rockers, 4 mid-tempo, 3 ballads.

That would of been a great, great album.

I always skip Dont Be Down On Me Baby and Is It Just The Rain - awful stuff, just not needed.

I do LOVE TBF though.

[bru87tr]

Revelation = Raised On Radio, if anything.

[Greg]

Actually they didn't put everything on TBF and Arrival, there were a lot of songs written for thoses records.

For Arrival, Kevin Shirley actually pick all the ballads for the 1st version that eventually leaked onto the internet. Fans didn't want another album full of ballads (like TBF) so they put pressure on the band for more rockers ! They put World Gone Wild, Nothin' Come Close and To Be Alive Again on the 2nd version of Arrival. It was actually the good move to do since a lot of fans love that album.

Schon and Shirley had a fight about that. That is probably why he didn't want to work with him again. Obviously Shirley didn't make that mistake again for Revelation.

Personally, I don't care how long is the album. For me, more is the better.

I'm sure there were plenty of songs written for those albums that didn't make the cut. However, I believe if you are going to put 15 or more songs on one album, it had better be 15 songs that really stand out. Now, I LOVE Trial By Fire. Sure, I wish there could've been more rockers on the album, but I'd rather have well written songs that keep my attention on one album (even if they are mid tempos and ballads) rather than an album full of "filler" material. I'm wondering though, if Trial By Fire was a 10 song album, and the only ballads on the entire album were When You Love A Woman and say, the title track, how would have people responded to the album?

I think Journey was wise in putting out an album that had no more than ten vocal tracks. It allows less room for error, and I think you get a better quality album.

Side note, I'd love to hear the songs that were left off of Trial By Fire and Arrival.

If TBF had the following tracklist it would be a MUCH better album.

1. Message of Love
2. One More
3. When You Love A Woman
4. If He Should Break Your Heart
5. Forever in Blue
6. Still She Cries
7. Colors of the Spirit
8. Can't Tame the Lion
9. I Can See It In Your Eyes
10. Easy to Fall
11. Trial By Fire

4 rockers, 4 mid-tempo, 3 ballads.

You must've didn't like Castle's Burning. For the most part, I think your track listing would've made TBF a better album. I love Neal's guitars, but I skip Castle's Burning because the guitar part toward the end of the song is waaaaaaaayyyyy too repetitive!!! I love the song up to that point!

[ProgRocker53]

Actually they didn't put everything on TBF and Arrival, there were a lot of songs written for thoses records.

For Arrival, Kevin Shirley actually pick all the ballads for the 1st version that eventually leaked onto the internet. Fans didn't want another album full of ballads (like TBF) so they put pressure on the band for more rockers ! They put World Gone Wild, Nothin' Come Close and To Be Alive Again on the 2nd version of Arrival. It was actually the good move to do since a lot of fans love that album.

Schon and Shirley had a fight about that. That is probably why he didn't want to work with him again. Obviously Shirley didn't make that mistake again for Revelation.

Personally, I don't care how long is the album. For me, more is the better.

I'm sure there were plenty of songs written for those albums that didn't make the cut. However, I believe if you are going to put 15 or more songs on one album, it had better be 15 songs that really stand out. Now, I LOVE Trial By Fire. Sure, I wish there could've been more rockers on the album, but I'd rather have well written songs that keep my attention on one album (even if they are mid tempos and ballads) rather than an album full of "filler" material. I'm wondering though, if Trial By Fire was a 10 song album, and the only ballads on the entire album were When You Love A Woman and say, the title track, how would have people responded to the album?

I think Journey was wise in putting out an album that had no more than ten vocal tracks. It allows less room for error, and I think you get a better quality album.

Side note, I'd love to hear the songs that were left off of Trial By Fire and Arrival.

If TBF had the following tracklist it would be a MUCH better album.

1. Message of Love
2. One More
3. When You Love A Woman
4. If He Should Break Your Heart
5. Forever in Blue
6. Still She Cries
7. Colors of the Spirit
8. Can't Tame the Lion
9. I Can See It In Your Eyes
10. Easy to Fall
11. Trial By Fire

4 rockers, 4 mid-tempo, 3 ballads.

You must've didn't like Castle's Burning. For the most part, I think your track listing would've made TBF a better album. I love Neal's guitars, but I skip Castle's Burning because the guitar part toward the end of the song is waaaaaaaayyyyy too repetitive!!! I love the song up to that point!

I think I have a future in producing music. Hey! You! Record label exec! Need a new A&R guy? Give me a call...

I agree with you completely dude. Castles Burning was a tight-ass song until the end... the end drives me CRAZY. Plus, I think that track is mixed a little "hotter" than the others, for some reason it always makes my ears hurt even though the other tracks make my ears smile.

[Greg]

Actually they didn't put everything on TBF and Arrival, there were a lot of songs written for thoses records.

For Arrival, Kevin Shirley actually pick all the ballads for the 1st version that eventually leaked onto the internet. Fans didn't want another album full of ballads (like TBF) so they put pressure on the band for more rockers ! They put World Gone Wild, Nothin' Come Close and To Be Alive Again on the 2nd version of Arrival. It was actually the good move to do since a lot of fans love that album.

Schon and Shirley had a fight about that. That is probably why he didn't want to work with him again. Obviously Shirley didn't make that mistake again for Revelation.

Personally, I don't care how long is the album. For me, more is the better.

I'm sure there were plenty of songs written for those albums that didn't make the cut. However, I believe if you are going to put 15 or more songs on one album, it had better be 15 songs that really stand out. Now, I LOVE Trial By Fire. Sure, I wish there could've been more rockers on the album, but I'd rather have well written songs that keep my attention on one album (even if they are mid tempos and ballads) rather than an album full of "filler" material. I'm wondering though, if Trial By Fire was a 10 song album, and the only ballads on the entire album were When You Love A Woman and say, the title track, how would have people responded to the album?

I think Journey was wise in putting out an album that had no more than ten vocal tracks. It allows less room for error, and I think you get a better quality album.

Side note, I'd love to hear the songs that were left off of Trial By Fire and Arrival.

If TBF had the following tracklist it would be a MUCH better album.

1. Message of Love
2. One More
3. When You Love A Woman
4. If He Should Break Your Heart
5. Forever in Blue
6. Still She Cries
7. Colors of the Spirit
8. Can't Tame the Lion
9. I Can See It In Your Eyes
10. Easy to Fall
11. Trial By Fire

4 rockers, 4 mid-tempo, 3 ballads.

You must've didn't like Castle's Burning. For the most part, I think your track listing would've made TBF a better album. I love Neal's guitars, but I skip Castle's Burning because the guitar part toward the end of the song is waaaaaaaayyyyy too repetitive!!! I love the song up to that point!

I think I have a future in producing music. Hey! You! Record label exec! Need a new A&R guy? Give me a call...

I agree with you completely dude. Castles Burning was a tight-ass song until the end... the end drives me CRAZY. Plus, I think that track is mixed a little "hotter" than the others, for some reason it always makes my ears hurt even though the other tracks make my ears smile.

Yeah, I'm thinking Neal might have been pushing to get another rocker on the album, and this was the only one everybody could agree on. I know that there has to be some songs that didn't make it to the album and I would LOVE to get my hands on those songs!

[Rick]

Why yes, yes it does.

I would never say AP is as good as SP on SP's worst day. But I think Revelation has a great formula and is a very strong album. RoR was not a strong album and neither was TBF. They were good, but not as strong. I'm not much of a fan of the Augeri albums, as much as I like SA.

[Tomulator]

Actually they didn't put everything on TBF and Arrival, there were a lot of songs written for thoses records.

For Arrival, Kevin Shirley actually pick all the ballads for the 1st version that eventually leaked onto the internet. Fans didn't want another album full of ballads (like TBF) so they put pressure on the band for more rockers ! They put World Gone Wild, Nothin' Come Close and To Be Alive Again on the 2nd version of Arrival. It was actually the good move to do since a lot of fans love that album.

Schon and Shirley had a fight about that. That is probably why he didn't want to work with him again. Obviously Shirley didn't make that mistake again for Revelation.

Personally, I don't care how long is the album. For me, more is the better.

I'm sure there were plenty of songs written for those albums that didn't make the cut. However, I believe if you are going to put 15 or more songs on one album, it had better be 15 songs that really stand out. Now, I LOVE Trial By Fire. Sure, I wish there could've been more rockers on the album, but I'd rather have well written songs that keep my attention on one album (even if they are mid tempos and ballads) rather than an album full of "filler" material. I'm wondering though, if Trial By Fire was a 10 song album, and the only ballads on the entire album were When You Love A Woman and say, the title track, how would have people responded to the album?

I think Journey was wise in putting out an album that had no more than ten vocal tracks. It allows less room for error, and I think you get a better quality album.

Side note, I'd love to hear the songs that were left off of Trial By Fire and Arrival.

If TBF had the following tracklist it would be a MUCH better album.

1. Message of Love
2. One More
3. When You Love A Woman
4. If He Should Break Your Heart
5. Forever in Blue
6. Still She Cries
7. Colors of the Spirit
8. Can't Tame the Lion
9. I Can See It In Your Eyes
10. Easy to Fall
11. Trial By Fire

4 rockers, 4 mid-tempo, 3 ballads.

That would of been a great, great album.

I always skip Dont Be Down On Me Baby and Is It Just The Rain - awful stuff, just not needed.

I do LOVE TBF though.

Why does everyone HATE Don't Be Down On Me Baby?????

I think it's quite likely the STRONGEST vocal on the whole disc!

GREAT song.

[ProgRocker53]

Actually they didn't put everything on TBF and Arrival, there were a lot of songs written for thoses records.

For Arrival, Kevin Shirley actually pick all the ballads for the 1st version that eventually leaked onto the internet. Fans didn't want another album full of ballads (like TBF) so they put pressure on the band for more rockers ! They put World Gone Wild, Nothin' Come Close and To Be Alive Again on the 2nd version of Arrival. It was actually the good move to do since a lot of fans love that album.

Schon and Shirley had a fight about that. That is probably why he didn't want to work with him again. Obviously Shirley didn't make that mistake again for Revelation.

Personally, I don't care how long is the album. For me, more is the better.

I'm sure there were plenty of songs written for those albums that didn't make the cut. However, I believe if you are going to put 15 or more songs on one album, it had better be 15 songs that really stand out. Now, I LOVE Trial By Fire. Sure, I wish there could've been more rockers on the album, but I'd rather have well written songs that keep my attention on one album (even if they are mid tempos and ballads) rather than an album full of "filler" material. I'm wondering though, if Trial By Fire was a 10 song album, and the only ballads on the entire album were When You Love A Woman and say, the title track, how would have people responded to the album?

I think Journey was wise in putting out an album that had no more than ten vocal tracks. It allows less room for error, and I think you get a better quality album.

Side note, I'd love to hear the songs that were left off of Trial By Fire and Arrival.

If TBF had the following tracklist it would be a MUCH better album.

1. Message of Love
2. One More
3. When You Love A Woman
4. If He Should Break Your Heart
5. Forever in Blue
6. Still She Cries
7. Colors of the Spirit
8. Can't Tame the Lion
9. I Can See It In Your Eyes
10. Easy to Fall
11. Trial By Fire

4 rockers, 4 mid-tempo, 3 ballads.

That would of been a great, great album.

I always skip Dont Be Down On Me Baby and Is It Just The Rain - awful stuff, just not needed.

I do LOVE TBF though.

Why does everyone HATE Don't Be Down On Me Baby?????

I think it's quite likely the STRONGEST vocal on the whole disc!

GREAT song.

Being a strong vocal doesn't necessarily equate a strong song.

[tammy]

I don't think Revelation is the best since Frontiers because I LOVE ROR & TBF (not all the songs, 'tho). When I heard Arrival for the first time I thought it was rather good, but honestly, I have listened to it maybe 5 times...I just felt like it was "so wordy" and to this day I can't recall a single song, melody or lyric, except 'Loved by you' and 'Kiss me softly', both of which I really liked. "Generations" - I liked "A better life" the most, but it isn't worth it to drag out the CD to listen to one song. lol. Revelation has a good balance of songs and length...and, I do skip the instrumental at the end.

[Michigan Girl]

Why does everyone HATE Don't Be Down On Me Baby?????

I think it's quite likely the STRONGEST vocal on the whole disc!

GREAT song.

Being a strong vocal doesn't necessarily equate a strong song.

Hmmm....don't know what it is then, I really like it as well!!!

[Tomulator]

Why does everyone HATE Don't Be Down On Me Baby?????

I think it's quite likely the STRONGEST vocal on the whole disc!

GREAT song.

Being a strong vocal doesn't necessarily equate a strong song.

Hmmm....don't know what it is then, I really like it as well!!!

Repent everyone! The end is near!!

A "Michigan" fan actually AGREES with a "Buckeye" (me)!!

[Greg]

I like Don't Be Down On Me Baby as well.

[EightyRock]

[quote="tammy"]...and, I do skip the instrumental at the end.

That's the best song on the CD!

[sniper16]

i dont know if revelations is as good as frontiers, nothing is as good as escape, but this is the cd they should have made instead of TBF. only time will tell if this is something played every month or two like departure or escape,
i know alot of you like ROR and TBF but those were perry controled albums and not ture journey albums.
i like songs on both but rarely listen to either

[Greg]

i dont know if revelations is as good as frontiers, nothing is as good as escape, but this is the cd they should have made instead of TBF. only time will tell if this is something played every month or two like departure or escape,
i know alot of you like ROR and TBF but those were perry controled albums and not ture journey albums.
i like songs on both but rarely listen to either

Well, here's my theory on TBF. If Journey had done an album in the mid-90's that sounded like Revelation, or sounded like Frontiers, it wouldn't have gotten any attention. That was during the era were alternative rock and grunge rock were kings of the music biz, and melodic rock had no place on radio. Journey made a mature sounding album that, I believe, fit the musical climate and the place they were at in their careers at the time, without being complete sell outs. It was an album in sort of a new musical direction, but it also wasn't them trying to relive a decade that was long past.

[EightyRock]

People like to rip TBF because of the tempo, too many ballads. For anybody that hasn't heard why the CD was made that way, here ya go:

TBF's TEMPO WAS DETERMINED BY THE RECORD LABEL, NOT THE BAND. THEIR GREATEST SUCCESS WAS PERCEIVED TO BE BALLADS, SO THEY WERE MANDATED TO GO THAT ROUTE. IT WAS NOT THEIR CHOICE AND THEY DID NOT HAVE THE FINAL SAY.

Hard to understand, but that's it in a nutshell. I remember the band discussing it (including Perry) at one point after it's release, because it was getting that reaction from some people.

[Michigan Girl]

Why does everyone HATE Don't Be Down On Me Baby?????

I think it's quite likely the STRONGEST vocal on the whole disc!

GREAT song.

Being a strong vocal doesn't necessarily equate a strong song.

Hmmm....don't know what it is then, I really like it as well!!!

Repent everyone! The end is near!!

A "Michigan" fan actually AGREES with a "Buckeye" (me)!!

I am a Wolverine!!!
No worries....maybe it's just the "BIG 10" in me!!!!

[Greg]

No worries....maybe it's just the "BIG 10" in me!!!!

I'm speechless!

[Greg]

People like to rip TBF because of the tempo, too many ballads. For anybody that hasn't heard why the CD was made that way, here ya go:

TBF's TEMPO WAS DETERMINED BY THE RECORD LABEL, NOT THE BAND. THEIR GREATEST SUCCESS WAS PERCEIVED TO BE BALLADS, SO THEY WERE MANDATED TO GO THAT ROUTE. IT WAS NOT THEIR CHOICE AND THEY DID NOT HAVE THE FINAL SAY.

Hard to understand, but that's it in a nutshell. I remember the band discussing it (including Perry) at one point after it's release, because it was getting that reaction from some people.

.....and there ya go! I know a lot of fans blamed Perry for that. But, like I said early, this means that there were some songs written for the album that didn't make it (guarantee it) and I betcha there were several rockers as well! Would LOVE to get my hands on these songs!!! Maybe they used some of them for Arrival??

[Michigan Girl]

No worries....maybe it's just the "BIG 10" in me!!!!

I'm speechless!

ME TOO!!!!

[EightyRock]

Yeah, one song off Arrival had Perry credited. Can't remember which one. Signs of Life? All the Things?
There was some help from Jack Blades and some Nashville songwriters, too, I think. I remember Kalodner saying he sent Cain to Nashville to write with some people there.

My Arrival CD grew legs and took a nose dive into the trash can after Tapegate started.

[Toph]

Actually they didn't put everything on TBF and Arrival, there were a lot of songs written for thoses records.

For Arrival, Kevin Shirley actually pick all the ballads for the 1st version that eventually leaked onto the internet. Fans didn't want another album full of ballads (like TBF) so they put pressure on the band for more rockers ! They put World Gone Wild, Nothin' Come Close and To Be Alive Again on the 2nd version of Arrival. It was actually the good move to do since a lot of fans love that album.

Schon and Shirley had a fight about that. That is probably why he didn't want to work with him again. Obviously Shirley didn't make that mistake again for Revelation.

Personally, I don't care how long is the album. For me, more is the better.

I'm sure there were plenty of songs written for those albums that didn't make the cut. However, I believe if you are going to put 15 or more songs on one album, it had better be 15 songs that really stand out. Now, I LOVE Trial By Fire. Sure, I wish there could've been more rockers on the album, but I'd rather have well written songs that keep my attention on one album (even if they are mid tempos and ballads) rather than an album full of "filler" material. I'm wondering though, if Trial By Fire was a 10 song album, and the only ballads on the entire album were When You Love A Woman and say, the title track, how would have people responded to the album?

I think Journey was wise in putting out an album that had no more than ten vocal tracks. It allows less room for error, and I think you get a better quality album.

Side note, I'd love to hear the songs that were left off of Trial By Fire and Arrival.

If TBF had the following tracklist it would be a MUCH better album.

1. Message of Love
2. One More
3. When You Love A Woman
4. If He Should Break Your Heart
5. Forever in Blue
6. Still She Cries
7. Colors of the Spirit
8. Can't Tame the Lion
9. I Can See It In Your Eyes
10. Easy to Fall
11. Trial By Fire

4 rockers, 4 mid-tempo, 3 ballads.

That would of been a great, great album.

I always skip Dont Be Down On Me Baby and Is It Just The Rain - awful stuff, just not needed.

I do LOVE TBF though.

Why does everyone HATE Don't Be Down On Me Baby?????

I think it's quite likely the STRONGEST vocal on the whole disc!

GREAT song.

I think it is a terrible, terrible song. It so boring...I can't stand it!

[Tomulator]

Why does everyone HATE Don't Be Down On Me Baby?????

I think it's quite likely the STRONGEST vocal on the whole disc!

GREAT song.

Being a strong vocal doesn't necessarily equate a strong song.

Hmmm....don't know what it is then, I really like it as well!!!

Repent everyone! The end is near!!

A "Michigan" fan actually AGREES with a "Buckeye" (me)!!

I am a Wolverine!!!
No worries....maybe it's just the "BIG 10" in me!!!!

Nice...well played.