OT: $700 million dollar bailout defeated in the House.

[RossValoryRocks]

As I already explained, I simply don't believe that.
And IF the GOP betrayed America's economic security for some tit-for-tat bullshit they don't belong in office.
More likely they needed political cover for a decision that redounds negatively on both current heads of their party - Bush and McCain.
To explain the bill's failings is to indirectly criticize Bush, and we simply can't have that now can we?

I wasn't directing you to personally address the bill.
I was discussing every GOPer that has been troted out on the news today.

They are bucking the party line as espoused by the President, sounds like they just don't like the bill and just wanted a scape goat.

Politics...it sucks...they should ALL be voted out of office.

Wipe the slate clean...you just have to wonder how long it would take for new people to be corrupted?

[RossValoryRocks]

Sometimes truth hurts a lot.

This crisis is the result of 8 years of bad decisions.

More than that...and by both sides.

[The_Noble_Cause]

They are bucking the party line as espoused by the President, sounds like they just don't like the bill and just wanted a scape goat.

Phew.
Yes, that's what I have been attempting to say.
Sure, they can allocate blame to Pelosi, but it'd be nice to have that countered with some actual policy objections with the bill.

[Rhiannon]

Sometimes truth hurts a lot.

This crisis is the result of 8 years of bad decisions.

Not just politics... no one acknowledging the fact that a lot of people who couldn't afford these homes to begin with should've never bought them... as well as the companies who jacked them over...? Tear it down to simplistics... people bought shit they couldn't pay for. Companies tanked because they told those people it was ok. The government wants to bail those companies out? I say tough titties. Let 'em fall. Shit's going down either way.

[RossValoryRocks]

They are bucking the party line as espoused by the President, sounds like they just don't like the bill and just wanted a scape goat.

Phew.
Yes, that's what I have been attempting to say.
Sure, they can allocate blame to Pelosi, but it'd be nice to have that countered with some actual policy objections with the bill.

See you are wonderful will verbose diatribe...but sometimes you just need to dumb it down!

Now...my objections to this bill are simple...

Congress can accomplish the same thing, with much much much much less money, and structure them as low interest loans so the tax payers get our money back. So why spend $700 BILLION? And they aren't helping the little guy here.

They could do another round of stimulus checks to the little guy, make low interest loans to the firms that need them, and ONLY to the firms that need them, get payment guarantees from those firms, and spend WAY WAY WAY less than $700 Billion

The market is in panic mode, but it is not as bad as the President, Obama, McCain and the others would have us believe.

[RossValoryRocks]

Sometimes truth hurts a lot.

This crisis is the result of 8 years of bad decisions.

Not just politics... no one acknowledging the fact that a lot of people who couldn't afford these homes to begin with should've never bought them... as well as the companies who jacked them over...? Tear it down to simplistics... people bought shit they couldn't pay for. Companies tanked because they told those people it was ok. The government wants to bail those companies out? I say tough titties. Let 'em fall. Shit's going down either way.

Good points...people making $50,000/year buying $400,000 houses??? OR worse...no income verfication and so the bank was told by their OWN underwriters the people were making more.

I don't think we should bail any of them out.

FORCE the mortgage companies to restructure the loans to these people and get the people MANDATORY classes on money management.

[treetopovskaya]

yup yup.

pisses me way off. grr.

people should know what they can & can't afford. common sense.

Sometimes truth hurts a lot.

This crisis is the result of 8 years of bad decisions.

Not just politics... no one acknowledging the fact that a lot of people who couldn't afford these homes to begin with should've never bought them... as well as the companies who jacked them over...? Tear it down to simplistics... people bought shit they couldn't pay for. Companies tanked because they told those people it was ok. The government wants to bail those companies out? I say tough titties. Let 'em fall. Shit's going down either way.

[Lula]

sure teach money management, but also regulate so the lenders don't finance homes with those ridiculous loans like they've done as of late. i know a lot of you will cite the bill that allowed lower income folks to get into homes, but this is much more than that. the lenders hold some of the responsibility here. the low income help did not do this.

[RossValoryRocks]

sure teach money management, but also regulate so the lenders don't finance homes with those ridiculous loans like they've done as of late. i know a lot of you will cite the bill that allowed lower income folks to get into homes, but this is much more than that. the lenders hold some of the responsibility here. the low income help did not do this.

I said earlier today the WHOLE SYSTEM failed...the lenders...the people who wanted the "big" house to impress...and the government that let it happen.

It isn't a partisan problem, it's a problem of the politicians using OUR TAX MONEY to solicit votes by giving things away to people. BOTH sides do it and ALL are to blame. I am so disgusted with politicians these days I cannot articulate it very well.

[Rhiannon]

sure teach money management, but also regulate so the lenders don't finance homes with those ridiculous loans like they've done as of late. i know a lot of you will cite the bill that allowed lower income folks to get into homes, but this is much more than that. the lenders hold some of the responsibility here. the low income help did not do this.

No, that's part of what I meant, Lu... the companies jacking over the consumer with glittery words and pretty much a turn-key offer. It should be illegal. The auto industry does it, too.

[Lula]

you're articulating just fine stu i'm disgusted as well. i don't want to see people lose their homes, but i don't want to see handouts either. heck, i could've would've should've bought a house too

[RossValoryRocks]

you're articulating just fine stu i'm disgusted as well. i don't want to see people lose their homes, but i don't want to see handouts either. heck, i could've would've should've bought a house too

Wait a bit...when it hits the bottom...then buy!

[Lula]

you're articulating just fine stu i'm disgusted as well. i don't want to see people lose their homes, but i don't want to see handouts either. heck, i could've would've should've bought a house too

Wait a bit...when it hits the bottom...then buy!

there won't be any credit to be had!!

[RossValoryRocks]

you're articulating just fine stu i'm disgusted as well. i don't want to see people lose their homes, but i don't want to see handouts either. heck, i could've would've should've bought a house too

Wait a bit...when it hits the bottom...then buy!

there won't be any credit to be had!!

Sure there will...the big stink is the election...if this was a non-election year this would be just a blip.

[Lula]

i spoke with a realtor/friend and he said to wait at least another year, so we shall see.... i need about three to save, hope i don't miss the boat

[iceberg]

Sometimes truth hurts a lot.

This crisis is the result of 8 years of bad decisions.

Not just politics... no one acknowledging the fact that a lot of people who couldn't afford these homes to begin with should've never bought them... as well as the companies who jacked them over...? Tear it down to simplistics... people bought shit they couldn't pay for. Companies tanked because they told those people it was ok. The government wants to bail those companies out? I say tough titties. Let 'em fall. Shit's going down either way.

normally i would agree, but i do believe it was the government also telling the lenders they damn well better lend to those who couldn't normally afford it or they'd cry racism or whatever key-fear word was in play at the time. everyone figured the gov would bail 'em out i suppose.

and now they're about to.

the "fat cats" or "the politicians" and whatever else that draws ire and anger from people i just don't care about now. i wish politicians would for once in their god forsaken lives put politics down and pick up some common sense. that payote chic that killed the bill and so many like her sound as fake as the last pair i saw at the club this weekend so why should i ever believe in someone who constantly talks like they're on the lifetime channel or having a hallmark moment?

in the end no; we shouldn't pass this onto the tax payer, but it's gonna happen. either by taxes to pay it off or by losses we take because of the fallout.

in the end we as a society and our goverment as a leader has to stop giving away a better life and make people earn it.

[Rhiannon]

in the end we as a society and our goverment as a leader has to stop giving away a better life and make people earn it.

Amen times 1,000.

[iceberg]

in the end we as a society and our goverment as a leader has to stop giving away a better life and make people earn it.

Amen times 1,000.

that's a lot of times.

[squirt1]

Bobby in Tenn- Even Bill Clinton said his own party would not handle this in 1992 when he was on one of the morning news shows last week, yet he appointed the 2 stupids that headed Fannie Mae & Freddie. They are big Obama friends and contributors and I believe left with 20 Mil each which should be confiscated The FBI is looking into who needs to be charged.Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank pushed to give anything that moved loans w/o downpayments and income verification to give everyone a chance. This is a backdoor buying votes and YOU will feel the effects. Mark my words this is not over . My the way see Nancy Pelosi's hyserical speech the started the day. Need a loan? Does your employer get weekly loans to pay payroll and pay it back when he is paid . Need a house loan, personal loan? The bill should have passed as this has never happened before. I say pass the bill, take the assets of the banks and sell them off as with the savings and loan crisis 2-30 yrs ago. The gov't made a profit.

[journel]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown;_ylt=AitsdRRi53lJlHBiQQQVNF9v24cA

Good...maybe they can craft a piece of legislation that won't screw the people over while handing Wall Street everything!

yes!

[classicstyxfan]

Sometimes truth hurts a lot.

This crisis is the result of 8 years of bad decisions.

While your statement has a lot of truth to it, I think this crisis is a result of a generations worth of bad decisions by both parties and a sizable percentage of the public as well.

[scarygirl]

sure teach money management, but also regulate so the lenders don't finance homes with those ridiculous loans like they've done as of late. i know a lot of you will cite the bill that allowed lower income folks to get into homes, but this is much more than that. the lenders hold some of the responsibility here. the low income help did not do this.

I said earlier today the WHOLE SYSTEM failed...the lenders...the people who wanted the "big" house to impress...and the government that let it happen.

It isn't a partisan problem, it's a problem of the politicians using OUR TAX MONEY to solicit votes by giving things away to people. BOTH sides do it and ALL are to blame. I am so disgusted with politicians these days I cannot articulate it very well.

As much as I hate this bail out and I am against it I do worry aboout people's 401 ks. My mother's is through a company owned by AIG. I know that any money lost will supposedly be mad back, but she's in her 50s. How long do you think she has to make up that deficit? Hopefully she didn't lose anything yesterday.

[scarygirl]

i spoke with a realtor/friend and he said to wait at least another year, so we shall see.... i need about three to save, hope i don't miss the boat

Your friend is right. We haven't even begun to see the bottom that's why I signed my apartment lease for another year. I figure if I save really hard all next year and prices continue to tank I'll have my pick of houses in my price range.

[strangegrey]

sure teach money management, but also regulate so the lenders don't finance homes with those ridiculous loans like they've done as of late. i know a lot of you will cite the bill that allowed lower income folks to get into homes, but this is much more than that. the lenders hold some of the responsibility here. the low income help did not do this.

No, that's part of what I meant, Lu... the companies jacking over the consumer with glittery words and pretty much a turn-key offer. It should be illegal. The auto industry does it, too.

It *was* illegal. 20% used to be an industry "bright line" for a down payment on a house. That 'requirement' was reduced and in some cases, completely evaporated. Such an effort was pressed for by democrats in the 90s and supported by then president Bill Clinton so that they can realize their socialist efforts in making everyone home-owners....never mind the fact that some people are so fiscally irresponsible (or just flat out fucking poor) that they have no business owning a home in the housing market of the late 90s. Equally irresponsible efforts were made by the above parties with respect to securing loan covenants that provided some reasonable assurance of preventing default.

However, blame is not squarely on the shoulders of the above mentioned democrats (even though some of the self-professed archtects of this so-balled bailout are so deep in culpability here that they have ZERO business being involved in the bailout process...douchebags like Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Joe Biden were integrally involved in setting up subprime ARM customers to fail)...There are republicans that are very much to blame for this mess as well. History's worst US president continued Clinton's bad ideology and allowed this crap to continue. Senator John McCain had his grubby fingers in the cookie jar as well. Many Republicans fed off of this bullshit...and a great deal of them were 'retired' back in 06.

I do not believe for *one* second in the claims that Hayseed Bush or John McCain tried to 'warn' people of this crissis as far back as 2003. That's laughable, given the fact that their pockets were getting lined by it as far back as 2001. I'm sorry...I'm sick and fucking tired of each side trying to claim they 'warned' people. Bullshit...complete and utter bullshit.

McCain is just as fucking full of it as that c^nt-faced excuse for a slug, Pelosi. So's Dodd....don't get me started on Frank. That fucking fat idiot needs to go on a diet and stop spitting out his lunch all over the reporters looking to hear him state House Republican's that voted No to a flawed bill that wasnt going to help a single fucking person but those in congress....and cover it with a bit fat fucking chocolate "they hurt america" topping. Sorry....anyone with half a brain knows that Barney Frank's only true knowledge in this matter is how much the coming economic downturn will affect his canoli and whiskey budget.


The true fact of that matter is that ALL elected officials save for a small few, have their best interests in mind. They've gotten away with it because they are completely out of touch with why and who elected them into their position. 9/10 of all law passed contains at least one or two provissions designed to benefit the politicians crafting said legislation or to further an ideology contrary to the needs/stated goals of this country. It's a complete and utter disgrace. Our government if filled with completely selfish douchebags that have NEVER had our best interests at heart...and engage in political games to advance their bullshit.

No one is free from guilt here. Pelosi, McCain, Obama, Bush, Frank, Cheney, Dodd, etc....they're all to blame. Every fucking one of them...and no one can stand from any soapbox and claim differently...because it could take less than a few hours of casual research to indict each and every fucking one of them. Some of them, less than 5 minutes...like those listed above that are either president, nominees or people listed in the constitution as potential successors if POTUS and/or the VP die in office.



I am a single pube hair from starting a website that outlines every incumbant elected official in every fucking district in the US...and unless running uncontested, a full blog page dedicated to drumming the fucking douchebag out of office.


It's time this country returned to the original principles of elected officials back when this country was first formed. Those days, an elected official took a break from his/her career to serve a term and return home. There was no such thing as a career politician back then. You did your time and returned to your true calling. If we can't have term limits on elected officials....we need to defacto imopse them as voters.

[conversationpc]

The true fact of that matter is that ALL elected officials save for a small few, have their best interests in mind. They've gotten away with it because they are completely out of touch with why and who elected them into their position. 9/10 of all law passed contains at least one or two provissions designed to benefit the politicians crafting said legislation or to further an ideology contrary to the needs/stated goals of this country. It's a complete and utter disgrace. Our government if filled with completely selfish douchebags that have NEVER had our best interests at heart...and engage in political games to advance their bullshit.

No one is free from guilt here. Pelosi, McCain, Obama, Bush, Frank, Cheney, Dodd, etc....they're all to blame. Every fucking one of them...and no one can stand from any soapbox and claim differently...because it could take less than a few hours of casual research to indict each and every fucking one of them. Some of them, less than 5 minutes...like those listed above that are either president, nominees or people listed in the constitution as potential successors if POTUS and/or the VP die in office.

I agree completely. Also, did you see that douche John Kerry on O'Reilly last night putting the entire blame squarely on Bush and Republicans. When O'Reilly countered that with evidence of Democrat wrongdoing, he poo-poo'd that and went on blaming only Republicans. Unbelievable where our economy is now and the duplicity of almost all politicians in the federal government and Kerry has the gall to say it's only the Republican's fault.

[Melissa]

Sometimes truth hurts a lot.

This crisis is the result of 8 years of bad decisions.

Not just politics... no one acknowledging the fact that a lot of people who couldn't afford these homes to begin with should've never bought them... as well as the companies who jacked them over...? Tear it down to simplistics... people bought shit they couldn't pay for. Companies tanked because they told those people it was ok. The government wants to bail those companies out? I say tough titties. Let 'em fall. Shit's going down either way.

Good points...people making $50,000/year buying $400,000 houses??? OR worse...no income verfication and so the bank was told by their OWN underwriters the people were making more.

I don't think we should bail any of them out.

FORCE the mortgage companies to restructure the loans to these people and get the people MANDATORY classes on money management.

Agreed, agreed, agreed.

[conversationpc]

How dumb must the House Republicans be to blame Pelosi's speech? It was dumb of Pelosi, also, to use an urgent occasion like this to make a partisan statement but, in the end, the voters will probably be more likely to hold it against the moron Republicans who complained about it. Idiots.

[whirlwind]

Sometimes truth hurts a lot.

This crisis is the result of 8 years of bad decisions.

Not just politics... no one acknowledging the fact that a lot of people who couldn't afford these homes to begin with should've never bought them... as well as the companies who jacked them over...? Tear it down to simplistics... people bought shit they couldn't pay for. Companies tanked because they told those people it was ok. The government wants to bail those companies out? I say tough titties. Let 'em fall. Shit's going down either way.

Good points...people making $50,000/year buying $400,000 houses??? OR worse...no income verfication and so the bank was told by their OWN underwriters the people were making more.

I don't think we should bail any of them out.

FORCE the mortgage companies to restructure the loans to these people and get the people MANDATORY classes on money management.

Agreed, agreed, agreed.

These statements make the most sense of all. Add to this the investors taking risks with the market and reaping the rewards while on a high. When the lows come along, tough shit.

[iceberg]

How dumb must the House Republicans be to blame Pelosi's speech? It was dumb of Pelosi, also, to use an urgent occasion like this to make a partisan statement but, in the end, the voters will probably be more likely to hold it against the moron Republicans who complained about it. Idiots.

if you're against the bailout peyotepelosi is your new hero.

GO GIRL!

people want to find the root of this problem and to me the root of this problem is people have allowed themselves to become dependant on government vs. themselves. when tragedy strikes we need our superhero to come save us. when we take a hit someone has to cover it. smart people were told by a pandering government to loan people money no one in their right mind would loan if it were their own. but hey, the government will save the day and it was the government who initially forced the smart people to do stupid things out of a fear of retribution. and hey, why fight if if they guarantee it.

so how did *we* let our government get this much control? should it? to the point where it's there for every bandaid vs. people just getting hurt and getting over it?

we never should have let our government do this but i don't think we ever really *saw* the cost. i mean really. can anyone honestly tell me they have an idea of what 700 billion dollars is? we've let it absorb so much we just got used to things being thta way and the government there to bail us out of every fall.

i'm all for falling when i need to and getting up when i can. on my own. i believe the government should be there to help those trying to help themselves and gone shortly from those who feel entitled to anything at all because they're alive.

it's gonna hurt, i know. but i say let the dominos keep falling and let the economy take care of itself and end subprime lending now. i'm sorry you don't make more than $20k a year and no, welfare no longer counts. you can't buy this $200k house. unemployment? oh we used to count that but it was stupid so we quit doing it. doesn't count.

just make the lending companies responsible for their own loans and i promise you while they'll be harder to get they'll be qualified loans. sometimes the government tries to fix things that are a natural part of life that don't need fixing.

kill subprime lending.

[bluejeangirl76]

What Frank just said ^ times 10.