Sa & JSS Revelation Material

[YoungJRNY]

Well the proof is always in the pudding when it comes to the sophomore effort. Those who proclaimed Revelation as a true platinum release set the bar, now the next effort, which will be written exclusively for the new vocalist, needs to surpass that to be considered a success. Like I said before, if it does that with a conventional release (no 2nd fodder disc), you can color me impressed.

+1. We are going to find out the cold hard facts after Journeys next album, and see if they are for real as far as sales are concerned. Regardless, I don't care if they sell 3 copies.. that's just more for me to listen to Love my Journey.

[Deb]

Just curious to see how many of you think JSS or SA would have had as much success as Arnel if given the material off of Revelation.

Wouldn't even be close. SA was at the helm for 3 albums, with only one getting little attention. JSS's take would of sounded more like a wannabe Journey 80's tribute take, or Soul SikUS.

Arnel has the sob story, the character, the national pull, and hands down, the voice. People can relate to him knowing his story while performing on stage and he's the typical miracle success.. or "
Only in America" (Rocky V) story. Arnel is what Journey was looking for the last decade and them finding the right one and then some will pay dividends for their closing.

Are you kidding, JSS' take probably sounded the "least" like a wannabe Journey 80s tribute take?!

He doesn't have the voice in this hemisphere of what Journey sounds like. He's a wannabe, and would of been. People say that Arnel and Steve A are clones, but I see it as the Journey sound.. anything outside of that are wannabe's. That's how I feel with singer vs singer.

Ok, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, I feel the exact opposite. I have a lot more respect for bands like Van Halen, Foreigner, Queen, etc. who didn't hire vocal clones of their original singers......nobody can replace the original voices and they didn't even try to......IMO there's a lot more room for musical growth that way. Nothing against Arnel, I think he is an amazing singer and from all accounts a super nice guy. If it's not Perry, I don't want a Perry sounding vocal.......to me that's where tribute/wannabe comes in. Probably why all 3 of my faves sound quite different, only thing they share is an emmense amount of soul/r&b delivery. And that's how I feel with singer vs. singer.

I can live to agree to disagree. I'm not wrong nor right. Just saying how I feel. I know your history and how you feel about JSS (and I admire that) and I don't want you to think I'm walking on your toes over it.. just stating my opinion. ( It's kind of like a marry go-round with this topic anyway. )

Agreed. Just stating mine too. It's all good. That's why I love this place, lots of passionate music lovers.....whatever music/band/singer it may be.

[Don]

Well the proof is always in the pudding when it comes to the sophomore effort. Those who proclaimed Revelation as a true platinum release set the bar, now the next effort, which will be written exclusively for the new vocalist, needs to surpass that to be considered a success. Like I said before, if it does that with a conventional release (no 2nd fodder disc), you can color me impressed.

+1. We are going to find out the cold hard facts after Journeys next album, and see if they are for real as far as sales are concerned. Regardless, I don't care if they sell 3 copies.. that's just more for me to listen to Love my Journey.

Nothing wrong with that. If the music moves you, that's all that matters, that's why a lot of us live in the 80's still. That era of music makes us feel good, and the remastering of all those older releases confirms that there is a market still out there for it. A lot of artists are stuck with their new releases having to go up against their older remastered discs. The remasters are like momentary time machines and it's hard to compete against that.

[Rocker Chic]

Just curious to see how many of you think JSS or SA would have had as much success as Arnel if given the material off of Revelation.

If given the same promotion and press, yes.

[Arkansas]

Well the proof is always in the pudding when it comes to the sophomore effort. Those who proclaimed Revelation as a true platinum release set the bar, now the next effort, which will be written exclusively for the new vocalist, needs to surpass that to be considered a success. Like I said before, if it does that with a conventional release (no 2nd fodder disc), you can color me impressed.

IF there is a sophomore effort. Even though it's rumoured that AP has some 3-yr deal, it doesn't mean they'll do another record, or that he'll even be in the band that long. Don't be surprised if the lineup changes between now and 'whenever'.


later~

[stevew2]

Apart from a couple of places on Revelation, I thought the whole thing would've been tailor-made for Augeri's voice. Likewise, with Augeri's voice, I think they would have done almost as well with his voice as they did with Arnel. The band caught a bit of a bump with all the press surrounding the new singer and him being Filipino.

Had Journey cut the kind of deal they had with Wal Mart for Arrival, I certainly think that album would've outdone this one. The Revelation package sold more for the value than for the quality, IMO. It has a couple of good songs, whereas I think Arrival is a classic.

But Steve A wouldn't have been able to cut it live. He's GREAT in the studio, but live, the guy has problems. His live pitch is terrible. (I'm a huge SA fan, by the way) but live, he had a terrible time throughout most of his time with Journey.

listen to this man. Can u believe Steve actually sang this fucker!?!?!

[amaron]

You can't compare 2001 to 2005 to 2008, just the same as you can't compare sales of RoR to TBF or Arrival to anything pre-1990.

Music tastes and trends change so quickly now.

Journey needs a gimmick to sell albums now. Arnel's story was the perfect gimmick to get sales.

[Jana]

Just curious to see how many of you think JSS or SA would have had as much success as Arnel if given the material off of Revelation.

No, they wouldn't have had as much success. I agree with most of what YoungJrny has said on this thead. I think Steve Augeri shines on songs like Kiss Me Softly and JSS is a powerful singer but does not have the Journey classic sound. Both talented men, definitely. But Arnel has a powerful tenor voice, which I think is awesome on Revelation. Sure, they had the hype, YouTube, blah, blah blah. That played a part in the sales. But Arnel had the goods to back it up and then some. And I'm not dissing anyone's favorite , JSS or SA, b/c I respect that, but Arnel, for me, rocks that Journey sound the best. And no, he doesn't really sound exactly like Perry, just sings in the same range and upper register as Perry. And I think Arnel's great vocal performance on tour helped sell Revelation too. Not trying to change anybody's mind; just stating my answer to the question.

[Rick]

I'm not taking anything away from Arnel, as I think he did an amazing job on the album and even more so on the tour, but I would have loved to have seen an album with JSS. I don't think it would have been the same Revelation album we have now though.

I thought Soto was kicking ass and taking names on the 2006 tour, especially after he found his groove and got more comfortable singing the catalog.

[Don]

I'm not taking anything away from Arnel, as I think he did an amazing job on the album and even more so on the tour, but I would have loved to have seen an album with JSS. I don't think it would have been the same Revelation album we have now though.

I thought Soto was kicking ass and taking names on the 2006 tour, especially after he found his groove and got more comfortable singing the catalog.

If it was going to be only about the money, then I can see why they did it. When Genesis went to a different style of music with Ray Wilson on Vocals, they couldn't move albums at all in the states. Now if Journey wanted to reinvent themselves a little bit and take a chance, JSS was the way to go. But that wasn't the case apparently and we have what we have.

[Saint John]

I'll let my concert experiences be the guide for my post. I saw Augeri 20+ times and he was a guy that sang fairly well for the first few years (actually, 1999-2000 was exceptional) and then gradually became worse every year. They put him out to pasture far too late. Should have come around 2002 or 2003. Soto was what he was. Relative to the situation he was an immense "on the spot" performer. I saw them with him 3 times and he just didn't have the right sound for me. Like Augeri, he took what he did seriously and did an admirable job. Arnel seems to bring something extra that neither Augeri nor Soto did. I saw 8 shows this past summer and there was an electricity in the air that was simply not there for Augeri or Soto. I can't even remember the amount of times people commented on how exceptional he was. And honestly, in my prior 20+ shows with Augeri and Soto I never heard that once...ever. I literally heard it at every show this summer and the accolades were not coming just from Pinoys...it was everyone. The New York State Fair show remains one of the finest concerts I've ever seen. Arnel was ridiculously good that night. But to answer the question...no way Augeri or Soto could have equalled or surpassed Revelation's success. And my guess is that the next effort will be better and outsell the first.

[Red13JoePa]

With JSS on board I think they'd've gone a more Red13 direction, SOG, The Time, FITH (Know it's on both Gens and Rev but I find it to be Red13ey) maybe suff like Living To Do or World Gone Wild.

I think w/ Augeri the songs would've been much the same as the current record, some of them probably written by Schon/Cain w/ him in mind.

Either way is great by me, I'm not partial to the singers, though admitedly Pineda floored me on Revelation.

[YoungJRNY]

I'll let my concert experiences be the guide for my post. I saw Augeri 20+ times and he was a guy that sang fairly well for the first few years (actually, 1999-2000 was exceptional) and then gradually became worse every year. They put him out to pasture far too late. Should have come around 2002 or 2003. Soto was what he was. Relative to the situation he was an immense "on the spot" performer. I saw them with him 3 times and he just didn't have the right sound for me. Like Augeri, he took what he did seriously and did an admirable job. Arnel seems to bring something extra that neither Augeri nor Soto did. I saw 8 shows this past summer and there was an electricity in the air that was simply not there for Augeri or Soto. I can't even remember the amount of times people commented on how exceptional he was. And honestly, in my prior 20+ shows with Augeri and Soto I never heard that once...ever. I literally heard it at every show this summer and the accolades were not coming just from Pinoys...it was everyone. The New York State Fair show remains one of the finest concerts I've ever seen. Arnel was ridiculously good that night. But to answer the question...no way Augeri or Soto could have equalled or surpassed Revelation's success. And my guess is that the next effort will be better and outsell the first.

Dan's the SHIIIIT.

[Gideon]

I'm going to have to echo Saint John's sentiments, though I realize quite well that Jeff Scott Soto is extremely well regarded here. In my honest opinion, classic bands like Journey have certain sounds to them; it's not necessarily a formula, but it is a certain style of music. It's not just about the singer or the guitarist but the entire band generating output. I saw Jeff Scott Soto with Journey once in late August of '06. Was I impressed? Sure. Soto has a prolific charisma to him; the consummate frontman. He also has a powerful voice and, though he is nowhere near the likes of Pineda or Perry in range, when he did get in his baritone groove, he did very well. On songs like "I'll Be Alright Without You", he shines. But anything above that? I really was unimpressed. He's simply not fit enough to tackle early-80s or even "Why Can't This Night Go On Forever"-era Perry. At least from what I have heard, which (again) is relatively limited. If anyone has clips of Soto tackling high end notes, I'd really like to hear it, because I don't want to discuss or debate out of ignorance.

As far as Steve Augeri goes, I really like him. He's not as powerful as Perry, Soto, or Arnel, but I find his tone and application of what he's packing to be very enjoyable. I loved the Tall Stories material I have heard far more than either Soto's output or Perry's solo albums and he demonstrated some incredible pipes in the early '90s. I've listened to clips of the new album, and I'm almost as excited for it as I was for Revelations. That said, the man's pushing 50, and his stamina doesn't seem to be that impressive; then again, that could be because of Journey's rigorous touring schedule and the ridiculous vocal demands that their catalogue requires.

And, lastly, I think Arnel Pineda is phenomenal. When I saw him live, he hit the high notes in a way that Augeri and Soto never did, and he didn't sound contrived. He imbued the songs with his own energy, his delight to be fronting Journey. Contrary to some of the commentary made earlier this year, there is a great reservoir of passion to the man. And while his stage presence isn't as refined as any of his predecessors, he does remind me of early-80s Perry. He is keeping the crowd's attention, able to juggle both the notes as well as the tiring stagework. And, he's doing this at 40. Not even Perry did that.

The long and short of it is that I don't think the other two would have done as well. Could Perry's name have brought more success? I'm sure. But how much more? As another user posted previously, time goes on and the collective music taste of the masses change too. But keep in mind (and again, I mean no disrespect to the Great Man), but I don't want Perry back to front Journey if he can't sing like he used to. Journey is a rock band, and though a one-time event would be nice, I loathe the idea of "Journey: Unplugged," muting the rock flavor of Neal and the boys to compensate for Perry's withering vocal strength. Revelation was great, but I have several criticisms for it and I hope the next album is bereft of them; they need to turn Pineda down a little and crank up the backing vocals, for one. And we need a better rock to ballad ratio!

[stevew2]

I'll let my concert experiences be the guide for my post. I saw Augeri 20+ times and he was a guy that sang fairly well for the first few years (actually, 1999-2000 was exceptional) and then gradually became worse every year. They put him out to pasture far too late. Should have come around 2002 or 2003. Soto was what he was. Relative to the situation he was an immense "on the spot" performer. I saw them with him 3 times and he just didn't have the right sound for me. Like Augeri, he took what he did seriously and did an admirable job. Arnel seems to bring something extra that neither Augeri nor Soto did. I saw 8 shows this past summer and there was an electricity in the air that was simply not there for Augeri or Soto. I can't even remember the amount of times people commented on how exceptional he was. And honestly, in my prior 20+ shows with Augeri and Soto I never heard that once...ever. I literally heard it at every show this summer and the accolades were not coming just from Pinoys...it was everyone. The New York State Fair show remains one of the finest concerts I've ever seen. Arnel was ridiculously good that night. But to answer the question...no way Augeri or Soto could have equalled or surpassed Revelation's success. And my guess is that the next effort will be better and outsell the first.

i was inpressed also. They key is if he can keep it up, and the band doesnt whore him out and blow out his voice like they did with Steve A. Thet already cancelled that little "evening with journey " tour they do at the end of the big tour they do every year. So maybe there is hope. i did really wanted to take a piss on Frigas new piano during one of his solos. That would be great, Id do 10 days to have the glory fag

[Esc]

... And my guess is that the next effort will be better and outsell the first.

if i were journey, id quit guessin about the next album and get perry writing songs with them again.
let pineda sing and have perry coach him how to sing them.

that would get anyone to buy a CD.

[Don]

... And my guess is that the next effort will be better and outsell the first.

if i were journey, id quit guessin about the next album and get perry writing songs with them again.
let pineda sing and have perry coach him how to sing them.

that would get anyone to buy a CD.

Your A/V needs a little more work. Put Perry in the clouds looking down on AP and you may have something. One's thing's for sure, AP ain't no Benjie Paras and, having seen JSS up close, that little pinoy flier would be going down quicker than a US Airline Flight sucking Geese into its intakes.

[Esc]

... And my guess is that the next effort will be better and outsell the first.

if i were journey, id quit guessin about the next album and get perry writing songs with them again.
let pineda sing and have perry coach him how to sing them.

that would get anyone to buy a CD.

Your A/V needs a little more work. Put Perry in the clouds looking down on AP and you may have something. One's thing's for sure, AP ain't no Benjie Paras and, having seen JSS up close, that little pinoy flier would be going down quicker than a US Airline Flight sucking Geese into its intakes.

i'l see what i can do.

[StoneCold]

If we go by what AC DC and The Eagles have done with their last releases, multiplatinum would be the expected result. To answer the question that has been posed, I don't think JSS or Augeri would have had the same success because of three things that they wouldn't have going for them.

Youtube story
Poorboy story
Ethnic fanbase that is looking for a hero.

The next album will be missing the effect of the first two things mentioned. We will be abe to judge that work on its on merits. If it goes platinum off of of a one Disc package, I'll be impressed.

Good summation of why they shouldn't even release anything until they have quality stuff. Yeah, I'm glad to have a couple tracks with SA on Generations, FITH, TPIYH but they botched it up pretty bad otherwise.

[treetopovskaya]

right on. }:C)))))

i still get little pains in my heart thinkin what could have been... but then i think of the next jssb tour! jeff, gary, david... & how WIE!! }=CDDDDDDDDDD

it's been awesome seeing jss on many different stages... the guy frakin brings it! }:C))

I'm not taking anything away from Arnel, as I think he did an amazing job on the album and even more so on the tour, but I would have loved to have seen an album with JSS. I don't think it would have been the same Revelation album we have now though.

I thought Soto was kicking ass and taking names on the 2006 tour, especially after he found his groove and got more comfortable singing the catalog.

[Rick]

right on. }:C)))))

i still get little pains in my heart thinkin what could have been... but then i think of the next jssb tour! jeff, gary, david... & how WIE!! }=CDDDDDDDDDD

it's been awesome seeing jss on many different stages... the guy frakin brings it! }:C))

I'm not taking anything away from Arnel, as I think he did an amazing job on the album and even more so on the tour, but I would have loved to have seen an album with JSS. I don't think it would have been the same Revelation album we have now though.

I thought Soto was kicking ass and taking names on the 2006 tour, especially after he found his groove and got more comfortable singing the catalog.

That's the first time I've seen it spelled frakin'

[treetopovskaya]

trying to clean up my potty mouth. }:C)

i did say "fmita" the other day tho... prolly watching hockey... i should say "ftita" instead! tehehee!

right on. }:C)))))

i still get little pains in my heart thinkin what could have been... but then i think of the next jssb tour! jeff, gary, david... & how WIE!! }=CDDDDDDDDDD

it's been awesome seeing jss on many different stages... the guy frakin brings it! }:C))

I'm not taking anything away from Arnel, as I think he did an amazing job on the album and even more so on the tour, but I would have loved to have seen an album with JSS. I don't think it would have been the same Revelation album we have now though.

I thought Soto was kicking ass and taking names on the 2006 tour, especially after he found his groove and got more comfortable singing the catalog.

That's the first time I've seen it spelled frakin'

[Rick]

trying to clean up my potty mouth. }:C)

i did say "fmita" the other day tho... prolly watching hockey... i should say "ftita" instead! tehehee!

right on. }:C)))))

i still get little pains in my heart thinkin what could have been... but then i think of the next jssb tour! jeff, gary, david... & how WIE!! }=CDDDDDDDDDD

it's been awesome seeing jss on many different stages... the guy frakin brings it! }:C))

I'm not taking anything away from Arnel, as I think he did an amazing job on the album and even more so on the tour, but I would have loved to have seen an album with JSS. I don't think it would have been the same Revelation album we have now though.

I thought Soto was kicking ass and taking names on the 2006 tour, especially after he found his groove and got more comfortable singing the catalog.

That's the first time I've seen it spelled frakin'

Not sure what either of those acronyms are, but good for you if you're trying to clean it up. You can pm the acronyms if you want.

[Don]

trying to clean up my potty mouth. }:C)

i did say "fmita" the other day tho... prolly watching hockey... i should say "ftita" instead! tehehee!

right on. }:C)))))

i still get little pains in my heart thinkin what could have been... but then i think of the next jssb tour! jeff, gary, david... & how WIE!! }=CDDDDDDDDDD

it's been awesome seeing jss on many different stages... the guy frakin brings it! }:C))

I'm not taking anything away from Arnel, as I think he did an amazing job on the album and even more so on the tour, but I would have loved to have seen an album with JSS. I don't think it would have been the same Revelation album we have now though.

I thought Soto was kicking ass and taking names on the 2006 tour, especially after he found his groove and got more comfortable singing the catalog.

That's the first time I've seen it spelled frakin'

What the...? Can't you just say fuck like the rest of us?

[Rick]

trying to clean up my potty mouth. }:C)

i did say "fmita" the other day tho... prolly watching hockey... i should say "ftita" instead! tehehee!

right on. }:C)))))

i still get little pains in my heart thinkin what could have been... but then i think of the next jssb tour! jeff, gary, david... & how WIE!! }=CDDDDDDDDDD

it's been awesome seeing jss on many different stages... the guy frakin brings it! }:C))

I'm not taking anything away from Arnel, as I think he did an amazing job on the album and even more so on the tour, but I would have loved to have seen an album with JSS. I don't think it would have been the same Revelation album we have now though.

I thought Soto was kicking ass and taking names on the 2006 tour, especially after he found his groove and got more comfortable singing the catalog.

That's the first time I've seen it spelled frakin'

What the...? Can't you just say fuck like the rest of us?

[stevew2]

trying to clean up my potty mouth. }:C)

i did say "fmita" the other day tho... prolly watching hockey... i should say "ftita" instead! tehehee!

right on. }:C)))))

i still get little pains in my heart thinkin what could have been... but then i think of the next jssb tour! jeff, gary, david... & how WIE!! }=CDDDDDDDDDD

it's been awesome seeing jss on many different stages... the guy frakin brings it! }:C))

I'm not taking anything away from Arnel, as I think he did an amazing job on the album and even more so on the tour, but I would have loved to have seen an album with JSS. I don't think it would have been the same Revelation album we have now though.

I thought Soto was kicking ass and taking names on the 2006 tour, especially after he found his groove and got more comfortable singing the catalog.

That's the first time I've seen it spelled frakin'

What the...? Can't you just say fuck like the rest of us?

some people cant spell

[Shadowsong]

Sighs, but we can't cry out of what could have been.
I too am looking foward to more great things from JSS

right on. }:C)))))

i still get little pains in my heart thinkin what could have been... but then i think of the next jssb tour! jeff, gary, david... & how WIE!! }=CDDDDDDDDDD

it's been awesome seeing jss on many different stages... the guy frakin brings it! }:C))

I'm not taking anything away from Arnel, as I think he did an amazing job on the album and even more so on the tour, but I would have loved to have seen an album with JSS. I don't think it would have been the same Revelation album we have now though.

I thought Soto was kicking ass and taking names on the 2006 tour, especially after he found his groove and got more comfortable singing the catalog.

[texafana]

JSS rocks on his own material, but Arnel just sounds more Journey'ish. SA had the tone back in the "Remember Me" days. But..I think there's more than just a voice at work here. Arnel has a much larger following, seems to reach a younger fan base which is needed to pull in new fans.

When you see all 3 on stage with Journey:

JSS commands the stage, makes the rest of group look like his backing act. The dude's look and actions are just too solo/star material to be in a group like Journey.
SA lacks that overall confidence, energy on stage. He always seems a bit uncomfortable to my eyes.
Arnel seems a bit reckless, but to my eyes, blends in with the entire band more. Making it a nice fit visually.

[The Sushi Hunter]

If we go by what AC DC and The Eagles have done with their last releases, multiplatinum would be the expected result. To answer the question that has been posed, I don't think JSS or Augeri would have had the same success because of three things that they wouldn't have going for them.

Youtube story
Poorboy story
Ethnic fanbase that is looking for a hero.

The next album will be missing the effect of the first two things mentioned. We will be abe to judge that work on its on merits. If it goes platinum off of of a one Disc package, I'll be impressed.

I'd say true to all the above. But not so sure that this fanbase was looking for a hero, I think AP just became their hero for what he has accomplished though. The question I have is how Revelation material would have done with SP presenting it.

[Jana]

JSS rocks on his own material, but Arnel just sounds more Journey'ish. SA had the tone back in the "Remember Me" days. But..I think there's more than just a voice at work here. Arnel has a much larger following, seems to reach a younger fan base which is needed to pull in new fans.

When you see all 3 on stage with Journey:

JSS commands the stage, makes the rest of group look like his backing act. The dude's look and actions are just too solo/star material to be in a group like Journey.
SA lacks that overall confidence, energy on stage. He always seems a bit uncomfortable to my eyes.
Arnel seems a bit reckless, but to my eyes, blends in with the entire band more. Making it a nice fit visually.

Very insightful remarks. I agree with you 100 percent.