Weird Arnel Wiki Entry

[Gideon]

Wow. Joking aside, let's take a look:

Rolie-era Journey "rock" songs:

- Wheel in the Sky
- La Do Da
- Any Way You Want It
- City of the Angels

Cain-era Journey "rock" songs:

- Edge of the Blade
- Rubicon
- Separate Ways
- Stone In Love
- Keep on Runnin'
- Lay It Down
- Back Talk
- Chain Reaction
- To Be Alive Again
- World Gone Wild
- Message of Love
- I Can See It In Your Eyes
- One More
- Ask the Lonely
- Only the Young
- Be Good To Yourself
- Escape
- Dead Or Alive
- Can't Tame the Lion
- Nothin' Comes Close
- I Got A Reason
- Faith in the Heartland
- Out of Harm's Way
- In Self Defense
- Never Too Late
- Never Walk Away
- Change for the Better
- Wildest Dream
- Where Did I Lose Your Love

Yeah. Now, that was ignoring the progressive pre-Perry songs with the band. I realize Cain gets a lot of shit around here, but it's one sided. Since Cain's tenure with the band, it has produced far more rock songs than with Rolie.

It's really not up for debate.

[madsplash]

Wow. Joking aside, let's take a look:

Rolie-era Journey "rock" songs:

- Wheel in the Sky
- La Do Da
- Any Way You Want It
- City of the Angels

Cain-era Journey "rock" songs:

- Edge of the Blade
- Rubicon
- Separate Ways
- Stone In Love
- Keep on Runnin'
- Lay It Down
- Back Talk
- Chain Reaction
- To Be Alive Again
- World Gone Wild
- Message of Love
- I Can See It In Your Eyes
- One More
- Ask the Lonely
- Only the Young
- Be Good To Yourself
- Escape
- Dead Or Alive
- Can't Tame the Lion
- Nothin' Comes Close
- I Got A Reason
- Faith in the Heartland
- Out of Harm's Way
- In Self Defense
- Never Too Late
- Never Walk Away
- Change for the Better
- Wildest Dream
- Where Did I Lose Your Love

Yeah. Now, that was ignoring the progressive pre-Perry songs with the band. I realize Cain gets a lot of shit around here, but it's one sided. Since Cain's tenure with the band, it has produced far more rock songs than with Rolie.

It's really not up for debate.

Damn Gideon, that's an impressive list/post. You did leave a few off of the Rollie era list, but you're point is proven.

[Gideon]

Meh. I left a little off of both their lists. It's just retarded to see people hate on Cain to the point where they apparently forget what he brought to the band. I mean, I think Perry and Schon have been assholes (Cain as well), but that doesn't diminish their talent.

[Duncan]

Meh. I left a little off of both their lists. It's just retarded to see people hate on Cain to the point where they apparently forget what he brought to the band. I mean, I think Perry and Schon have been assholes (Cain as well), but that doesn't diminish their talent.

I agree with you Gideon. I think people automatically assume commercial success equals less rock. Journey certainly rocked harder and faster post Cain. However, that is not to say that is better or worse. I like both, it's just different styles.

----------------
Now playing: The Police - Don't Stand So Close To Me

----------------
Now playing: Michael Nyman - The Fling

[wednesday's child]

Saying that the "Cain era" produced more rockers is one thing,
It's another thing to say the "The Rolie days were pop"

The quantity of so-called "rockers" in the "Cain era" can easily be ascribed to the length of Cain's tenure
in the band, compared to Rolie's. Any listing of such supposed "rockers" conveniently ignores the massive deluge
of sappy pop shit that Cain hemmorhoidally drained out of his asscrack while in Journey. But hey, you guys have fun
fondling each other with your "inside info" and profound, unique insights....LOL

-wech

[perryswoman]

Well, I am just waiting for Nov so I can hear my Perry's new cd!!

[steveo777]

Well, I am just waiting for Nov so I can hear my Perry's new cd, if it really ever comes out!!

Fixed for ya

[Vladan]

It's really not up for debate.

Right or wrong, Deano will feel otherwise you know, he's not going to back down on this one, your in it for the long haul now - (unless Deano takes into account "the source" where the information is coming from, mainly because of the experience, age, just things like that) So, perhaps he won't bother.

[perryswoman]

Well, I am just waiting for Nov so I can hear my Perry's new cd, if it really ever comes out!!

Fixed for ya

I know but it don't stop a loon from deaming haha!!

[Michigan Girl]

It's really not up for debate.

Right or wrong, Deano will feel otherwise you know, he's not going to back down on this one, your in it for the long haul now - (unless Deano takes into account "the source" where the information is coming from, mainly because of the experience, age, just things like that) So, perhaps he won't bother.

Yikes....I hope you were joking!!

[G.I.Jim]

because I could care less about what you have to say anyay.

If you say so. But whatever.

Get a ROOM you two! Sorry...it HAD to be said. Carry on now.

[Gideon]

Saying that the "Cain era" produced more rockers is one thing,
It's another thing to say the "The Rolie days were pop"

The quantity of so-called "rockers" in the "Cain era" can easily be ascribed to the length of Cain's tenure
in the band, compared to Rolie's. Any listing of such supposed "rockers" conveniently ignores the massive deluge
of sappy pop shit that Cain hemmorhoidally drained out of his asscrack while in Journey. But hey, you guys have fun
fondling each other with your "inside info" and profound, unique insights....LOL

-wech

No one was ignoring anything. The fact of the matter is that Cain's name is attached to far more rock songs in Journey than Rolie's. Not only has he performed heavier material with Journey, but he's probably written more rock than Rolie has written... well... anything. And the quantity of the so-called "sappy pop shit that Cain hemmorhoidally drained out of his asscrack" compared to Rolie's can also easily be ascribed to the length of Cain's tenure in the band relative to Rolie's. It goes both ways, Wech. Sorry.

[Rockindeano]

LOL, ok.

When Journey was in Infinity/Evolution and Departure mode,they ere regarded as a rock band. As oon as Twinkle Toes came aboard, they became a hated band amongst critics, and a "sellout pop act."

Now Ilove a lot of the Escape/Frontiers and ROR/TBF stuff, but there was way more pop than rock.

But hey, I am an asshole who knows dick about Journey so carry on.

[Gideon]

When Journey was in Infinity/Evolution and Departure mode,they ere regarded as a rock band.

And they continue to be regarded as such.

As oon as Twinkle Toes came aboard, they became a hated band amongst critics, and a "sellout pop act."

Hated band amongst critics? As far as I am aware, Journey was reviled by critics the very day that Perry joined the band -- years before "Twinkle Toes" signed on. While that reputation hardly improved when Rolie left and Cain signed on board, the fact of the matter is that critics loathed the band entirely; the hatred wasn't exactly pinpointed on Cain.

The fact of the matter is (as you are so fond of quoting numbers and sales when it suits you) that Cain's arrival helped pave the path to utter and complete success for the band, putting everything Rolie did to shame in terms of success (not necessarily quality; that's open for debate). His writing helped put them on the map, the harmonies and melodies that he crafted along with Perry and Neal.

Now Ilove a lot of the Escape/Frontiers and ROR/TBF stuff, but there was way more pop than rock.

Trial By Fire and Raised on Radio? Sure. Escape and Frontiers? No. The content of ROR and TBF carried more pop than rock, but it did have rock there; "Be Good To Yourself" and "Message of Love" being harder and heavier tracks than anything from Infinity through Departure. Escape and Frontiers are widely regarded -- even by critics themselves -- as Journey's finest rock moments.

But hey, I am an asshole who knows dick about Journey so carry on.

Addressed in private message.

[bluejeangirl76]

because I could care less about what you have to say anyay.

If you say so. But whatever.

Get a ROOM you two! Sorry...it HAD to be said. Carry on now.

LOL! No kidding. If this were recess, he'd be pulling my hair and pushing me off the swings into the gravel.

[G.I.Jim]

because I could care less about what you have to say anyay.

If you say so. But whatever.

Get a ROOM you two! Sorry...it HAD to be said. Carry on now.

LOL! No kidding. If this was a playground he'd be pulling my hair and pushing me off the swings into the gravel.

We all know you spent some time in the "playground" ho!

[bluejeangirl76]

because I could care less about what you have to say anyay.

If you say so. But whatever.

Get a ROOM you two! Sorry...it HAD to be said. Carry on now.

LOL! No kidding. If this was a playground he'd be pulling my hair and pushing me off the swings into the gravel.

We all know you spent some time in the "playground" ho!

You're a meanie, Jim. I'm tellin'.

[Gideon]

This brings a new thought. Is the proper spelling "hoe" or "ho" for a skanky lady?

[wednesday's child]

Saying that the "Cain era" produced more rockers is one thing,
It's another thing to say the "The Rolie days were pop"

The quantity of so-called "rockers" in the "Cain era" can easily be ascribed to the length of Cain's tenure
in the band, compared to Rolie's. Any listing of such supposed "rockers" conveniently ignores the massive deluge
of sappy pop shit that Cain hemmorhoidally drained out of his asscrack while in Journey. But hey, you guys have fun
fondling each other with your "inside info" and profound, unique insights....LOL

-wech

No one was ignoring anything. The fact of the matter is that Cain's name is attached to far more rock songs in Journey than Rolie's. Not only has he performed heavier material with Journey, but he's probably written more rock than Rolie has written... well... anything. And the quantity of the so-called "sappy pop shit that Cain hemmorhoidally drained out of his asscrack" compared to Rolie's can also easily be ascribed to the length of Cain's tenure in the band relative to Rolie's. It goes both ways, Wech. Sorry.

LMAO...

It doesn't go both ways, regarding what you specifically said that I found objectionable.
You're asserting that Rolie's tenure with Journey was all about pop, as opposed to Cain's.
If the absolute quantity of either rock or pop, authored with either guy, can now be nacked off to
their lengths of tenure, then you really can't use it to say that "The Rolie days were pop".

Your absolute number of "rock" songs means shit in dismissively generalizing Rolie's time as pop,
or in perhaps proclaiming that Cain's was more about rock (something you wisely stop short of).

Fuck, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and over a year it's right some 730 times.
An absolute number of 730 sounds real impressive up until you consider how many seconds that clock was wrong in the year.
We're all better served seeing what percentage of Cain's work was pop, versus the percentage of Rolie's,
before proclaiming that one's or the other's time with Journey is/was all about "pop".

But hey... like I said, you and madsplash just keep on stroking it.

wech

[G.I.Jim]

because I could care less about what you have to say anyay.

If you say so. But whatever.

Get a ROOM you two! Sorry...it HAD to be said. Carry on now.

LOL! No kidding. If this was a playground he'd be pulling my hair and pushing me off the swings into the gravel.

We all know you spent some time in the "playground" ho!

You're a meanie, Jim. I'm tellin'.

Hey...I'm not knocking it! I spent a LOT of time in the little wooden house on the playground in my day.

[Rockindeano]

LMAO...


Your absolute number of "rock" songs means shit in dismissively generalizing Rolie's time as pop,
or in perhaps proclaiming that Cain's al about rock (something you wisely stop short of).
Fuck, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and over a year it's right some 730 times.
An absolute number of 730 sounds real impressive up until you consider how many seconds that clock was wrong.

Dude, can I call you Albert? You are a smart sumbitch.

[Gideon]

It doesn't go both ways, regarding what you specifically said that I found objectionable.
You're asserting that Rolie's tenure with Journey was all about pop, as opposed to Cain's.
If the absolute quantity of either rock or pop, authored with either guy, can now be nacked off to
their lengths of tenure, then you really can't use it to say that "The Rolie days were pop".

Ah, no, that's not what I meant. Rolie's era had a handful of rock songs amongst a vast selection of slower, lighter songs. It wasn't all pop, but yes, it's what I predominantly found it to be.

Your absolute number of rock or pop songs means shit in dismissively generalizing Rolie's time as pop.
Fuck, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and over a year it's right some 730 times.
730 sounds real impressive up until you consider how many seconds that clock was wrong.

Again, that's not what I meant. Though even if we went by that logic, it still doesn't change the fact that Cain's era produced more rock song. And if you want to equate that to length of tenure with the band, we can use that argument for Cain's pop songs.

We're all better served seeing what percentage of Cain's work was pop, versus the percentage of Rolie's,
before proclaiming that one's or the other's time with Journey is/was all about "pop".
But like I said, you and madsplash just keep on stroking it.

wech

I don't know what it is about me that brings out the claws in other posters, but I'm sorry if I upset you. It wasn't my intent. Rolie churned out a lot less rock than Cain, which was my bottom line. Personally, yes, I find the Rolie era to be overwhelmingly poppish; it lacked the many great examples of rock later produced 1981 and on. But that's a subjective decision and not subject to your consent.

[wednesday's child]

Consent, my ass.

If your style or shtik or whatever tends to bring out claws, then maybe you should try to figure out why,
because you like to present yourself as a rational poster, and because it's not too likely you're on MR
just to troll for irritated responses.


-wech

[Gideon]

Consent, my ass.

If your style or shtik or whatever tends to bring out claws, then maybe you should try to figure out why,
because you like to present yourself as a rational poster, and because it's not too likely you're on MR
just to troll for irritated responses.


-wech

Which is something no one has bothered to explain at all. Some have asserted its arrogance; but I usually post qualifiers like "just my opinion" and such to make sure people recognize my word is law. Not to mention that it's pointless and inaccurate to try to read tone or nuance in text. I love Journey and I try to be a rational poster. I have my opinions and I come here to debate and discuss them with others.

Why people take issue with it, I don't know. It's not like any have tendered an explanation that makes any sense.

Edit: LMAO.

"word is not law."

[Peartree12249]

Motown stuff would be cool- HOWEVER- I'd rather hear original stuff from the guy unless we're talking bonus tracks or something.

IMO if SP did record again, it would definitely be his own music. SP has always written songs that in his word "fit his voice to a T". I think someone once during an interview asked him about recording covers ala Rod Stewart and he said that did not interest him. Steve writes and records only when he has something to say.

[annie89509]

Well, just to bring the topic back to point. I think the Wiki entry is making a joke because the guy lives in Hawaii and Steve Perry's hip pain started while hiking in Hawaii. Just my opinion. Please proceed with the insanity.

That's very perceptive of you, Memorex. I didn't "get" that remark, either. But it makes sense now.

[Gideon]

I'm telling you, R&B is the way to do it. He can write his own songs, but that's the style to do it in.

[Jubilee]

I'm telling you, R&B is the way to do it. He can write his own songs, but that's the style to do it in.

I have to agree with you for two reasons on this one, Gideon. Firstly, signals a clean break from Journey and by extension rock, leaving the legacy in tact. Secondly, his more mature voice, expression and phrasing are all taylor made for R&B. It wouldn't be a stretch at all.

[Peartree12249]

I'm telling you, R&B is the way to do it. He can write his own songs, but that's the style to do it in.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but I suspect Steve would throw in some surprises.

[Jubilee]

I'm telling you, R&B is the way to do it. He can write his own songs, but that's the style to do it in.

I have to agree with you for two reasons on this one, Gideon. Firstly, signals a clean break from Journey and by extension rock, leaving the legacy in tact. Secondly, his more mature voice, expression and phrasing are all tailor made for R&B. It wouldn't be a stretch at all.