Who Fractured the Stone?

[Red13JoePa]

That damned Bionca Jagger fractured the Stones.

Keith had no love lost for her...

[Onestepper]

I don't think the stone cracked because of action by just one member of the band.

I think it eroded over time.

I think SP's inclusion in the band was initially met with some objections. Then when success started to come and the lead singer got most of the attention, as always seems to happen, I think a tiny seed of resentment grew in the others.
Also a bit of friction because Perry's style of singing [crooning they called it at the time] meant they would have to move away from their musical style into something more 'current.'

I think rather than pick a fight, Neal felt the need to start his side project. Either as a release from doing music he felt he had to do with Journey because it was commercially successful or as a break from SP and his rapidly growing ego.

I think that Neal's side project probably irked Steve Perry and he wanted to do a side project himself. Either an ego thing between the founder of the band and the 'new' lead singer - an 'anything you can do I can do better kind of thing' or as a break from the band he 'never felt part of.'

And I think that because of the vast amount of gigs they were playing, they were all starting to get on each others nerves and maybe feeling niggly and petty thoughts about each other..................so, Neal does his side project. SP thinks, hmmmm, I want to do that too. The others think, what about us?
So the erosion between them all begins.



Then during the ROR period when SP seemed to be the top husky dog leading the sled, I think he made a dodgy decision to go with a drum machine.
He may have ridden roughshod over everyone else and demanded he got his own way, or the others could have agreed with his decision after some debates.
I think they all agreed but then thought about it later and felt that they had been bullied into the decision, so the erosion deepened and a crack started to show.

When bands are in each others faces and there is pressure to create more successful music and to tour with it and their rock solid status as bandmates is eroding, the slightest little thing can get blown out of proportion. And when huge egos are in evidence a power struggle begins and a game of one-upmanship ensues. And sometimes people get petty and even spiteful. So basically they all probably behaved like kids trying to get one over on each other.

All of them have probably made decisions and taken action they now regret because they have matured and mellowed.
But I do think the stone cracked because they all needed a break from each other but none of them could actually just say outright - "Stop the Journey machine. I want to get off."

Sure SP hesitated over making a decision about surgery for what we are told was a "degenerative hip disease" and he was reluctant to tour again because his voice was knackered - and sure the guys auditioned people behind his back because they were impatient to get back on the road.

I just think all of them brooded about what was pissing them off about each other but they didn't actually communicate it to each other at the time. So the erosion grew into a crack and the rock split.

Bands split all the time.
Band members piss each other off all the time - but that's what makes life interesting.
I think it is all a natural progression and understandable.
And a band split is like a marriage split. There are two ways of looking at it. And everyone involved has to take some responsibility for the break up.

I still cannot understand the way JSS was announced as permanent and then so sneakily let go.
That one I just cannot get my head around or make an excuse for.

But the split, and the hesitation before surgery was undergone, I can understand.

Perfect. Ultimately it's a successful band that let ego's, control, money, management, artistic differences get in the way of the longevity of 'the band', and the music. I don't think I've heard of many bands that have not had the same issues, just different circumstances. Some are able to over come their personal issues (ie. The Eagles), and some are not (Journey). Laying blame on one person, or party only highlights the differences. It does not define the relationship. Those are much too complicated, and we as bystanders, only speculate in hopes of a better understanding how something like this can't just be worked out. It's a shame. But not that unique. Unfortunately.

[madsplash]

It wouldn't matter if God himself came down and gave Perry a shiny brand spanking new set of vocal cords, Perry wouldn't give Friga and Schon as much as a "fuck you" with them. Perry would never return to Journey, nomatter the state of his voice. For God's sake, do you think he'd associate w/ lippers? Whatever you think of him, first and foremost, he has musical integrity and would never approve of not giving fans their money's worth.

Yeah, I don't see any of this at all. Contrary to the mythology that Perry operates under this holier-than-thou schtick and justified superiority complex, looking down upon the rest of the world from his private Mount Olympus, when it comes to the musicians he played with, he's gone on record being in total awe of Neal Schon's abilities as a musician. If he could, he'd be crawling back.

Yea, crawling. My God, what a backwards-ass theory this is. If Neal and Jon think there's ANY chance that SP can/will do the old stuff on tour with them, Arnel will be a distant memory grouped in with Augeri and JSS. Cheap imitations of the real thing. A reunion tour would be the biggest since the Eagles reunited and Neal and Jon are the ones who would be crawling back.

Gideon, isn't it past your bedtime? I kid. I kid. Sort of. Don't you have a big math test tommorow? I've been listening to Journey longer than you've been on the planet, bro. I take your opinions with a big, fat, white, grain of salt. You know not of which you speak.

[G.I.Jim]

It wouldn't matter if God himself came down and gave Perry a shiny brand spanking new set of vocal cords, Perry wouldn't give Friga and Schon as much as a "fuck you" with them. Perry would never return to Journey, nomatter the state of his voice. For God's sake, do you think he'd associate w/ lippers? Whatever you think of him, first and foremost, he has musical integrity and would never approve of not giving fans their money's worth.

Yeah, I don't see any of this at all. Contrary to the mythology that Perry operates under this holier-than-thou schtick and justified superiority complex, looking down upon the rest of the world from his private Mount Olympus, when it comes to the musicians he played with, he's gone on record being in total awe of Neal Schon's abilities as a musician. If he could, he'd be crawling back.

Yea, crawling. My God, what a backwards-ass theory this is. If Neal and Jon think there's ANY chance that SP can/will do the old stuff on tour with them, Arnel will be a distant memory grouped in with Augeri and JSS. Cheap imitations of the real thing. A reunion tour would be the biggest since the Eagles reunited and Neal and Jon are the ones who would be crawling back.

Gideon, isn't it past your bedtime? I kid. I kid. Sort of. Don't you have a big math test tommorow? I've been listening to Journey longer than you've been on the planet, bro. I take your opinions with a big, fat, white, grain of salt. You know not of which you speak.

These young whippersnappers these days!

[Deacon]

Yea, crawling. My God, what a backwards-ass theory this is. If Neal and Jon think there's ANY chance that SP can/will do the old stuff on tour with them, Arnel will be a distant memory grouped in with Augeri and JSS. Cheap imitations of the real thing. A reunion tour would be the biggest since the Eagles reunited and Neal and Jon are the ones who would be crawling back.

Gideon, isn't it past your bedtime? I kid. I kid. Sort of. Don't you have a big math test tommorow? I've been listening to Journey longer than you've been on the planet, bro. I take your opinions with a big, fat, white, grain of salt. You know not of which you speak.

Considering that it was Perry's idea for the drum machine, Perry's idea to wait for surgery, Perry's idea to fire Ross, and numerous other obvious flaws, I'm pretty sure that Perry would be the one to be crawling back to Neal and Cain to rejoin the band. This is coupled with the fact that they've been experiencing a shitload of successes with Arnel.

Take your ageism elsewhere.

[madsplash]

Yea, crawling. My God, what a backwards-ass theory this is. If Neal and Jon think there's ANY chance that SP can/will do the old stuff on tour with them, Arnel will be a distant memory grouped in with Augeri and JSS. Cheap imitations of the real thing. A reunion tour would be the biggest since the Eagles reunited and Neal and Jon are the ones who would be crawling back.

Gideon, isn't it past your bedtime? I kid. I kid. Sort of. Don't you have a big math test tommorow? I've been listening to Journey longer than you've been on the planet, bro. I take your opinions with a big, fat, white, grain of salt. You know not of which you speak.

Considering that it was Perry's idea for the drum machine, Perry's idea to wait for surgery, Perry's idea to fire Ross, and numerous other obvious flaws, I'm pretty sure that Perry would be the one to be crawling back to Neal and Cain to rejoin the band. This is coupled with the fact that they've been experiencing a shitload of successes with Arnel.

Take your ageism elsewhere.

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

[Michigan Girl]

Perfect. Ultimately it's a successful band that let ego's, control, money, management, artistic differences get in the way of the longevity of 'the band', and the music. I don't think I've heard of many bands that have not had the same issues, just different circumstances. Some are able to over come their personal issues (ie. The Eagles), and some are not (Journey). Laying blame on one person, or party only highlights the differences. It does not define the relationship. Those are much too complicated, and we as bystanders, only speculate in hopes of a better understanding how something like this can't just be worked out. It's a shame. But not that unique. Unfortunately.

Nice, OS...I concur!!

Looks like more stones are being fractured in this thread!!

[Deacon]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God almighty just because of it.

Edited first sentence and "all-mighty" to almighty.

[madsplash]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

[Gideon]

It wouldn't matter if God himself came down and gave Perry a shiny brand spanking new set of vocal cords, Perry wouldn't give Friga and Schon as much as a "fuck you" with them. Perry would never return to Journey, nomatter the state of his voice. For God's sake, do you think he'd associate w/ lippers? Whatever you think of him, first and foremost, he has musical integrity and would never approve of not giving fans their money's worth.

Yeah, I don't see any of this at all. Contrary to the mythology that Perry operates under this holier-than-thou schtick and justified superiority complex, looking down upon the rest of the world from his private Mount Olympus, when it comes to the musicians he played with, he's gone on record being in total awe of Neal Schon's abilities as a musician. If he could, he'd be crawling back.

Yea, crawling. My God, what a backwards-ass theory this is. If Neal and Jon think there's ANY chance that SP can/will do the old stuff on tour with them, Arnel will be a distant memory grouped in with Augeri and JSS. Cheap imitations of the real thing. A reunion tour would be the biggest since the Eagles reunited and Neal and Jon are the ones who would be crawling back.

Gideon, isn't it past your bedtime? I kid. I kid. Sort of. Don't you have a big math test tommorow? I've been listening to Journey longer than you've been on the planet, bro. I take your opinions with a big, fat, white, grain of salt. You know not of which you speak.

Let me make this abundantly clear. I've extended you every common courtesy available. We've been through this shit time and time again and, the last time, you agreed that we'd keep it civil. I haven't landed one insult or flamebait your way. This is the second time you have violated the agreement and hurled an insult at me. The first time, you made a bullshit claim and it was promptly crushed. Yes, we have all noticed that you didn't bother addressing the issue further nor could you summon humility enough to concede the point or apologize.

I find your deceitful and tempermental behavior to be the very definition of retarded. I went to T-Bone last time out of respect for Andrew. Try this shit one more time and I'll go straight to him. I did it your way, you spat in my face because of your hormones and obvious mancrush.

Yes, we all expect your ego to direct you to hurl more insults rather than swallow your pride and confess when you've fucked up. Wanna prove us wrong? Shut the fuck up and move on.

[stevew2]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

Friga would not see the light of day if the didnt approve of gay marrige in California

[Gideon]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

Alas, your latent telepathy notwithstanding, you're not an authority on what Jonathan Cain believes. "Open Arms" originated with Cain and "Faithfully" was a sole product of his efforts; Perry had nothing to do with its inception. Cain did. No, don't bother arguing it. It's incontrovertible.

[Deacon]

Edit that out, then. Looks like you're wrong, Mad.

I say again, Perry was a great contribution to the band -- he was the reason that they became popular initially. But, he is not God nor is he the SOLE REASON FOR SUCCESS. Otherwise, Journey wouldn't be selling tickets out of the shit hole like they're doing. You can't prove me wrong -- It's Jon's band just as much as it is Perry's (if not more so), if we go by your logic.

[G.I.Jim]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

Alas, your latent telepathy notwithstanding, you're not an authority on what Jonathan Cain believes. "Open Arms" originated with Cain and "Faithfully" was a sole product of his efforts; Perry had nothing to do with its inception. Cain did. No, don't bother arguing it. It's incontrovertible.

Are you sure about that? I think I recall on the BTM, that Cain came to Perry with the melody to Open Arms, and that Perry whipped up the lyrics in short order? Could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

[Gideon]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

Alas, your latent telepathy notwithstanding, you're not an authority on what Jonathan Cain believes. "Open Arms" originated with Cain and "Faithfully" was a sole product of his efforts; Perry had nothing to do with its inception. Cain did. No, don't bother arguing it. It's incontrovertible.

Are you sure about that? I think I recall on the BTM, that Cain came to Perry with the melody to Open Arms, and that Perry whipped up the lyrics in short order? Could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

Jim...

"Open Arms originated with Cain."

[stevew2]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

Alas, your latent telepathy notwithstanding, you're not an authority on what Jonathan Cain believes. "Open Arms" originated with Cain and "Faithfully" was a sole product of his efforts; Perry had nothing to do with its inception. Cain did. No, don't bother arguing it. It's incontrovertible.

Are you sure about that? I think I recall on the BTM, that Cain came to Perry with the melody to Open Arms, and that Perry whipped up the lyrics in short order? Could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

i thinks you er right,Friga likes it when men whips things up in front of him in short order

[G.I.Jim]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

Alas, your latent telepathy notwithstanding, you're not an authority on what Jonathan Cain believes. "Open Arms" originated with Cain and "Faithfully" was a sole product of his efforts; Perry had nothing to do with its inception. Cain did. No, don't bother arguing it. It's incontrovertible.

Are you sure about that? I think I recall on the BTM, that Cain came to Perry with the melody to Open Arms, and that Perry whipped up the lyrics in short order? Could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

Jim...

"Open Arms originated with Cain."

You're gettin' sassy with me aren't you?!! Oh yeah?...can you PLAY Open Arms?

[stevew2]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

Alas, your latent telepathy notwithstanding, you're not an authority on what Jonathan Cain believes. "Open Arms" originated with Cain and "Faithfully" was a sole product of his efforts; Perry had nothing to do with its inception. Cain did. No, don't bother arguing it. It's incontrovertible.

Are you sure about that? I think I recall on the BTM, that Cain came to Perry with the melody to Open Arms, and that Perry whipped up the lyrics in short order? Could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

Jim...

"Open Arms originated with Cain."

You're gettin' sassy with me aren't you?!! Oh yeah?...can you PLAY Open Arms?

In my sleep and drunk, i play after every tuning job, just to see if anybody knows, 80 % do

[G.I.Jim]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

Alas, your latent telepathy notwithstanding, you're not an authority on what Jonathan Cain believes. "Open Arms" originated with Cain and "Faithfully" was a sole product of his efforts; Perry had nothing to do with its inception. Cain did. No, don't bother arguing it. It's incontrovertible.

Are you sure about that? I think I recall on the BTM, that Cain came to Perry with the melody to Open Arms, and that Perry whipped up the lyrics in short order? Could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

Jim...

"Open Arms originated with Cain."

You're gettin' sassy with me aren't you?!! Oh yeah?...can you PLAY Open Arms?

In my sleep and drunk, i play after every tuning job, just to see if anybody knows, 80 % do

I wasn't talking to you, you butt pirate!

[stevew2]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

Alas, your latent telepathy notwithstanding, you're not an authority on what Jonathan Cain believes. "Open Arms" originated with Cain and "Faithfully" was a sole product of his efforts; Perry had nothing to do with its inception. Cain did. No, don't bother arguing it. It's incontrovertible.

Are you sure about that? I think I recall on the BTM, that Cain came to Perry with the melody to Open Arms, and that Perry whipped up the lyrics in short order? Could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

Jim...

"Open Arms originated with Cain."

You're gettin' sassy with me aren't you?!! Oh yeah?...can you PLAY Open Arms?

In my sleep and drunk, i play after every tuning job, just to see if anybody knows, 80 % do

I wasn't talking to you, you butt pirate!

Im a virgin, tight as liquid drummers snare

[G.I.Jim]

:[/quote]Im a virgin, tight as liquid drummers snare[/quote]

That's not what Tito said!

[stevew2]

:

Im a virgin, tight as liquid drummers snare[/quote]

That's not what Tito said! [/quote]he is a girl like friga

[SherriBerry]

he's gone on record being in total awe of Neal Schon's abilities as a musician.

Recently?

Only joking.

Of course, I have no way of knowing this exactly, but it's my opinion that Perry truly realizes how his egomania truly inhibited this band. Not completely. People bring up how Perry repented for his ridiculous removal of Valory and Smith, but the exact quote is "If I could, I probably wouldn't do it again." Still too proud to accept that it was an utter mistake.

Oh well. Still the Voice, just makes me laugh when people try to insinuate he was anything more than what he was.

Actually, the exact quote is "Having had those circumstances in front of me today, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have done it." Not too proud to look back and admit that he made a mistake.

Does anyone know if Jon or Neal ever admitted publicly that they made a mistake in going along with it and regret not standing up for Ross and Steve? According to HH, ROR was finished when SP pushed to redo it with new musicians, so it seems their concern was about touring and not their friends and bandmates. At least Herbie insisted that they get paid as if they were on tour. There is blame and failure on all sides of this.

Here's the quote at the 4:35 mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdLUmkQrnfQ&feature=PlayList&p=DDA4F6B745B88C9B&index=3

[SherriBerry]

Take your foolishly blindism elsewhere. Shitload? A gold record and a decent tour? Multiply all of that by 4 or 5 if SP would come back. Yea, Perry would crawl.

Neal and Jon's checks are probably still signed by Perry. It will always be Perry's band. I don't give a shit who started it. They've only ever been huge and mattered when he's been there. Crawling back to Neal and Jon. What a joke.

Trying to contort a phrase that I used does not a good argument make.

Please, show some correlating evidence to supplement this gold record theory of theirs. If we're going to use your logic, comparing popularity or their fad status, then it would, in fact, be Jon's band because, as you could see, their popularity sharply rose with his arrival in the band. Compare Escape, Frontiers, Raised on Radio, and Trial By Fire to Evolution and Infinity and you tell me a) quality of song lyrics, b) how much each album grossed in comparison, and c) that you concede.

Perry skyrocketed that band, yes. But, don't think that he is God all-mighty just because of it.

I'm not arguing about Jon's writing. He's great, but he would tell you that Open Arms and Faithfully would never have seen the light of day, were it not for SP.

Alas, your latent telepathy notwithstanding, you're not an authority on what Jonathan Cain believes. "Open Arms" originated with Cain and "Faithfully" was a sole product of his efforts; Perry had nothing to do with its inception. Cain did. No, don't bother arguing it. It's incontrovertible.

The music and melody for "Open Arms" was written by Jonathan Cain long before he was in Journey, but according to SP's interview on the 'Escape' DVD and the BTM special, JC had submitted the song to a few groups he was in and no one was interested in it. SP fell in love with the melody when he heard it and talked JC into working on the song - they came up with the lyrical content together. JC may have shelved the song entirely or done something else with it later on. Who knows what it might have become? What is incontrovertible is that the song as we know it is the result of the writing teamwork of Jonathan Cain and Steve Perry.

Personally I think that if Neal had not been so dead set against the song in the first place, he might have contributed to it in the form of the solo we heard from the clips of the Manila concert - the solo is wonderful and to me it sounds like it always belonged there. There is something about Perry/Cain/Schon that creates magic .

[madsplash]

It wouldn't matter if God himself came down and gave Perry a shiny brand spanking new set of vocal cords, Perry wouldn't give Friga and Schon as much as a "fuck you" with them. Perry would never return to Journey, nomatter the state of his voice. For God's sake, do you think he'd associate w/ lippers? Whatever you think of him, first and foremost, he has musical integrity and would never approve of not giving fans their money's worth.

Yeah, I don't see any of this at all. Contrary to the mythology that Perry operates under this holier-than-thou schtick and justified superiority complex, looking down upon the rest of the world from his private Mount Olympus, when it comes to the musicians he played with, he's gone on record being in total awe of Neal Schon's abilities as a musician. If he could, he'd be crawling back.

Yea, crawling. My God, what a backwards-ass theory this is. If Neal and Jon think there's ANY chance that SP can/will do the old stuff on tour with them, Arnel will be a distant memory grouped in with Augeri and JSS. Cheap imitations of the real thing. A reunion tour would be the biggest since the Eagles reunited and Neal and Jon are the ones who would be crawling back.

Gideon, isn't it past your bedtime? I kid. I kid. Sort of. Don't you have a big math test tommorow? I've been listening to Journey longer than you've been on the planet, bro. I take your opinions with a big, fat, white, grain of salt. You know not of which you speak.

Let me make this abundantly clear. I've extended you every common courtesy available. We've been through this shit time and time again and, the last time, you agreed that we'd keep it civil. I haven't landed one insult or flamebait your way. This is the second time you have violated the agreement and hurled an insult at me. The first time, you made a bullshit claim and it was promptly crushed. Yes, we have all noticed that you didn't bother addressing the issue further nor could you summon humility enough to concede the point or apologize.

I find your deceitful and tempermental behavior to be the very definition of retarded. I went to T-Bone last time out of respect for Andrew. Try this shit one more time and I'll go straight to him. I did it your way, you spat in my face because of your hormones and obvious mancrush.

Yes, we all expect your ego to direct you to hurl more insults rather than swallow your pride and confess when you've fucked up. Wanna prove us wrong? Shut the fuck up and move on.

Look, if you can't tell when someone is kidding around, it's not my fault. I'm being very civil, or at least I thought I was. I realize some people are more sensitive than others and me kidding you about your age isn't worse than you just calling me retarded or telling me to shut the fuck up. I was joking around with you and didn't realize that you would be so freakin sensitive about it. Don't worry, it won't happen again because I won't be addressing you directly anymore.

Go to T-bone and Andrew about what? For me kidding you about being up past your bedtime because you're younger than me? I'd be embarrased to waste someone's time on something so silly and harmless and obvious joking . Unbelievable. I've been called everything in the book here and haven't gone whining to a moderator. It doesn't bother me because that person doesn't know me, therefore I couldn't give less of a damn about what they think about me. I really don't care.

And the shut the fuck up thing is comical, big feeling keyboard tough talk. I don't blame you because I know that the younger generation is being brought up doing a lot of their communicating from cell phones and keyboards, but as I tell my daughter and nieces and nephews, you shouldn't type ANYTHING that you wouldn't say to someone face to face. It can easily come back and bite you in the ass some day.

Again, I'm retarded(nice offensive word there) and should shut the fuck up, and that's ok for you to say to me, but if I joke about your age, OH MY GOD! I remember being in my late teens and thinking that I knew everything. Wow, what shock I was in for as I got older.

As I said before, don't worry about me joking with you any more, or you having to bother a moderator about someone kidding around with you you're not worth my time and effort.

[Gideon]

There's nothing I love more than a belligerent trying to masquerade as the victim. Madsplash, don't be silly, you started this:

Bottom line: Journey now is a shadow of it's former self. Look at the numbers, it's unarguable.

Fuck them for pushing him. What a joke.

You don't know what he was PLANNING. What an arrogant, dumb-ass statement. But it's consistant. Fuck Chalfant. Just another in a long line that can't carry Perry's microphone cord, including Augeri and especially Arnel. Perry lite, Perry lite.

Did you forget about this? Because I didn't. Just in case your memory fails you, I proved Perry cracked the stone, lied about being burned out, and planned to make another solo album two years after ROR, but it was shelved due to Sony's takeover of Columbia Records. Karma's a real bitch, isn't it Steve? And you tried to deny it, called me an arrogant dumbass, and... yes... you were proven wrong.

But, ah, wait. We're not done:

Gideon, isn't it past your bedtime? I kid. I kid. Sort of.

Very poor wording on your part.

I take your opinions with a big, fat, white, grain of salt. You know not of which you speak.

This one being the funniest because we've played this little drama before on the first page. You with your claim, me with mine, and mine turns out to be the factual one. So even if I'm ignorant, guess that means I still know more than you, doesn't it? So much for your vaunted years of being a fan of Steve Perry.

I made this post because I loathe people trying to play victim. You started this little war, you lost it, and as a desperate last resort you pull the "WAA I WAS KIDDING UR MEAN I NO TALK TO U NO MORE!!1!" card? Hardly. You don't have to speak to me, but it sure as hell isn't because I'm not worth your time.

Keep your lies to yourself, next time, please.

[Gideon]

The music and melody for "Open Arms" was written by Jonathan Cain long before he was in Journey, but according to SP's interview on the 'Escape' DVD and the BTM special, JC had submitted the song to a few groups he was in and no one was interested in it. SP fell in love with the melody when he heard it and talked JC into working on the song - they came up with the lyrical content together. JC may have shelved the song entirely or done something else with it later on. Who knows what it might have become? What is incontrovertible is that the song as we know it is the result of the writing teamwork of Jonathan Cain and Steve Perry.

Personally I think that if Neal had not been so dead set against the song in the first place, he might have contributed to it in the form of the solo we heard from the clips of the Manila concert - the solo is wonderful and to me it sounds like it always belonged there. There is something about Perry/Cain/Schon that creates magic .

I'm not following the purpose behind this post, Sherri. We all know (yes, even me) that Steve Perry helped write "Open Arms." But that doesn't change the fact that it was Cain's idea and that he came up with the foundation of the song long before Steve Perry. So, no. It may or may not have been released without Perry, but it wouldn't exist at all without Cain. There is no comparison to be made. Relative to "Open Arms", Cain is far more important to its inception than Steve Perry.

[Rhiannon]

Keep your lies to yourself

The best part of believe is the lie.

[Gideon]

Keep your lies to yourself

The best part of believe is the lie.

In all seriousness, it makes me wonder if there is a limit to delusion. Whaddya think, Dr. Rhiannon?

[madsplash]

There's nothing I love more than a belligerent trying to masquerade as the victim. Madsplash, don't be silly, you started this:

Bottom line: Journey now is a shadow of it's former self. Look at the numbers, it's unarguable.

Fuck them for pushing him. What a joke.

You don't know what he was PLANNING. What an arrogant, dumb-ass statement. But it's consistant. Fuck Chalfant. Just another in a long line that can't carry Perry's microphone cord, including Augeri and especially Arnel. Perry lite, Perry lite.

Did you forget about this? Because I didn't. Just in case your memory fails you, I proved Perry cracked the stone, lied about being burned out, and planned to make another solo album two years after ROR, but it was shelved due to Sony's takeover of Columbia Records. Karma's a real bitch, isn't it Steve? And you tried to deny it, called me an arrogant dumbass, and... yes... you were proven wrong.

But, ah, wait. We're not done:

Gideon, isn't it past your bedtime? I kid. I kid. Sort of.

Very poor wording on your part.

I take your opinions with a big, fat, white, grain of salt. You know not of which you speak.

This one being the funniest because we've played this little drama before on the first page. You with your claim, me with mine, and mine turns out to be the factual one. So even if I'm ignorant, guess that means I still know more than you, doesn't it? So much for your vaunted years of being a fan of Steve Perry.

I made this post because I loathe people trying to play victim. You started this little war, you lost it, and as a desperate last resort you pull the "WAA I WAS KIDDING UR MEAN I NO TALK TO U NO MORE!!1!" card? Hardly. You don't have to speak to me, but it sure as hell isn't because I'm not worth your time.

Keep your lies to yourself, next time, please.

Gideon,
You've proven NOTHING. Everything you've said is opinion, just like everyone else here. You don't know what SP was thinking or planning anymore than anyone else. You have no facts at all. And how can you tell me what is and isn't worth MY time? That's hilariously arrogant.

Victim? At least I can take a joke. As before, let's agree to steer the hell clear of each other. I'm losing my patience with you and don't want to waste any more energy.