Tuning Down {its about time}

[Don]

[Gideon]

As someone who plays H3, I can tell you... it's fucking obnoxious.

[Rip Rokken]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

[Ehwmatt]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

I'm with you 100%

[la michelona]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

I agree. Faith in the Heartland shouldn't have been re-recorded. Why the producer preferred it this way, I don't know.

Rip, you can play it and you will not get the vast majority of Arnel's fans to think it's better. As far as widening the perspective of new fans, for the most part that is not going to happen. Most have no interest in owning a Journey CD without Arnel's vocals. In fact, I've been told pointblank after they named songs they would like him to sing, why not buy the CDs, and was told they're not interested without Arnel. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Meh, I don't like either version. But my problem with the song is the lyrics, rather than either of its singers. They just don't work for me, but, if the song is appealing to you all, that's ok, too.

[Ehwmatt]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

I agree. Faith in the Heartland shouldn't have been re-recorded. Why the producer preferred it this way, I don't know.

Rip, you can play it and you will not get the vast majority of Arnel's fans to think it's better. As far as widening the perspective of new fans, for the most part that is not going to happen. Most have no interest in owning a Journey CD without Arnel's vocals. In fact, I've been told pointblank after they named songs they would like him to sing, why not buy the CDs, and was told they're not interested without Arnel. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Meh, I don't like either version. But my problem with the song is the lyrics, rather than either of its singers. They just don't work for me, but, if the song is appealing to you all, that's ok, too.

I never let bad lyrics ruin a good song for me, but I will let bad music/performance ruin good lyrics. Guess that's why I'm not into Dylan too much. That said, lyrics are never exactly Journey's trump card. What's so much worse about FiTH?

[Don]

I guess we know who the true Journey fans are then. As much as we bitch and moan, we still end up buying every album they put out regardless of the singer, don't we? Anyway, when you start dealing with individuals who will believe that everything that Herbie Herbert says about Steve Perry is true, while at the same time say that everything H.H. said about Cain is a downright lie you can begin to understand the mindset of certain fans.

[la michelona]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

I agree. Faith in the Heartland shouldn't have been re-recorded. Why the producer preferred it this way, I don't know.

Rip, you can play it and you will not get the vast majority of Arnel's fans to think it's better. As far as widening the perspective of new fans, for the most part that is not going to happen. Most have no interest in owning a Journey CD without Arnel's vocals. In fact, I've been told pointblank after they named songs they would like him to sing, why not buy the CDs, and was told they're not interested without Arnel. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Meh, I don't like either version. But my problem with the song is the lyrics, rather than either of its singers. They just don't work for me, but, if the song is appealing to you all, that's ok, too.

I never let bad lyrics ruin a good song for me, but I will let bad music/performance ruin good lyrics. Guess that's why I'm not into Dylan too much. That said, lyrics are never exactly Journey's trump card. What's so much worse about FiTH?

I don't have a set rule as to which I hold as more important; I just take it on a case by case basis.

oops, I missed your question. So much worse, hehehe, well, I don't know if it's any worse than some of the others...

[Don]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

I agree. Faith in the Heartland shouldn't have been re-recorded. Why the producer preferred it this way, I don't know.

Rip, you can play it and you will not get the vast majority of Arnel's fans to think it's better. As far as widening the perspective of new fans, for the most part that is not going to happen. Most have no interest in owning a Journey CD without Arnel's vocals. In fact, I've been told pointblank after they named songs they would like him to sing, why not buy the CDs, and was told they're not interested without Arnel. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Meh, I don't like either version. But my problem with the song is the lyrics, rather than either of its singers. They just don't work for me, but, if the song is appealing to you all, that's ok, too.

I never let bad lyrics ruin a good song for me, but I will let bad music/performance ruin good lyrics. Guess that's why I'm not into Dylan too much. That said, lyrics are never exactly Journey's trump card. What's so much worse about FiTH?

Dylan is one of those singers I just never got into. I just can't see the appeal there.

[Ehwmatt]

Dylan is one of those singers I just never got into. I just can't see the appeal there.

I like a few songs and if someone offered me a ticket I'd go to see him just to say I did. I just can't stand listening to him moan. I'm not someone who needs a 2200000 octave range with operatic vibrato to enjoy a singer, I like some traditionally derided voices a lot... like Springsteen and Mellencamp. But Dylan just doesn't do it for me.

[Rip Rokken]

Dylan is one of those singers I just never got into. I just can't see the appeal there.

You and me both.

[Gideon]

I guess we know who the true Journey fans are then. As much as we bitch and moan, we still end up buying every album they put out regardless of the singer, don't we? Anyway, when you start dealing with individuals who will believe that everything that Herbie Herbert says about Steve Perry is true, while at the same time say that everything H.H. said about Cain is a downright lie you can begin to understand the mindset of certain fans.

You do realize, Gunbot, that there are more Loons than Plokkers? More people will regard H.H.'s commentary on Perry as a lie and the gospel on Cain. That is to say, quite simply, far more people suck Perry's cock than the precious few who look at all of the facts.

[Rick]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

I agree. Faith in the Heartland shouldn't have been re-recorded. Why the producer preferred it this way, I don't know.

Rip, you can play it and you will not get the vast majority of Arnel's fans to think it's better. As far as widening the perspective of new fans, for the most part that is not going to happen. Most have no interest in owning a Journey CD without Arnel's vocals. In fact, I've been told pointblank after they named songs they would like him to sing, why not buy the CDs, and was told they're not interested without Arnel. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Meh, I don't like either version. But my problem with the song is the lyrics, rather than either of its singers. They just don't work for me, but, if the song is appealing to you all, that's ok, too.

Yep, I love that song. I prefer the Revelation version of it. As for them rerecording it, I think they did that because they though it was good enough to be on a properly released and marketed album, and not languish and die on Generations. You never know what song is going to take hold and become a big hit. I think they thought that song had legs, and it deserved another chance.

[Don]

I guess we know who the true Journey fans are then. As much as we bitch and moan, we still end up buying every album they put out regardless of the singer, don't we? Anyway, when you start dealing with individuals who will believe that everything that Herbie Herbert says about Steve Perry is true, while at the same time say that everything H.H. said about Cain is a downright lie you can begin to understand the mindset of certain fans.

You do realize, Gunbot, that there are more Loons than Plokkers? More people will regard H.H.'s commentary on Perry as a lie and the gospel on Cain. That is to say, quite simply, far more people suck Perry's cock than the precious few who look at all of the facts.

Yep.

[Gideon]

I guess we know who the true Journey fans are then. As much as we bitch and moan, we still end up buying every album they put out regardless of the singer, don't we? Anyway, when you start dealing with individuals who will believe that everything that Herbie Herbert says about Steve Perry is true, while at the same time say that everything H.H. said about Cain is a downright lie you can begin to understand the mindset of certain fans.

You do realize, Gunbot, that there are more Loons than Plokkers? More people will regard H.H.'s commentary on Perry as a lie and the gospel on Cain. That is to say, quite simply, far more people suck Perry's cock than the precious few who look at all of the facts.

Yep.

That's what I mean. When will you ever bitch about the Perry love fest rather than the Arnel one?

[Don]

I guess we know who the true Journey fans are then. As much as we bitch and moan, we still end up buying every album they put out regardless of the singer, don't we? Anyway, when you start dealing with individuals who will believe that everything that Herbie Herbert says about Steve Perry is true, while at the same time say that everything H.H. said about Cain is a downright lie you can begin to understand the mindset of certain fans.

You do realize, Gunbot, that there are more Loons than Plokkers? More people will regard H.H.'s commentary on Perry as a lie and the gospel on Cain. That is to say, quite simply, far more people suck Perry's cock than the precious few who look at all of the facts.

Yep.

That's what I mean. When will you ever bitch about the Perry love fest rather than the Arnel one?

I did that with my first 5,000 posts. When I hit 10,000, I'll switch it around again.

[Gideon]

I guess we know who the true Journey fans are then. As much as we bitch and moan, we still end up buying every album they put out regardless of the singer, don't we? Anyway, when you start dealing with individuals who will believe that everything that Herbie Herbert says about Steve Perry is true, while at the same time say that everything H.H. said about Cain is a downright lie you can begin to understand the mindset of certain fans.

You do realize, Gunbot, that there are more Loons than Plokkers? More people will regard H.H.'s commentary on Perry as a lie and the gospel on Cain. That is to say, quite simply, far more people suck Perry's cock than the precious few who look at all of the facts.

Yep.

That's what I mean. When will you ever bitch about the Perry love fest rather than the Arnel one?

I did that with my first 5,000 posts. When I hit 10,000, I'll switch it around again.

Lmao.

[stevew2]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

I agree. Faith in the Heartland shouldn't have been re-recorded. Why the producer preferred it this way, I don't know.

Rip, you can play it and you will not get the vast majority of Arnel's fans to think it's better. As far as widening the perspective of new fans, for the most part that is not going to happen. Most have no interest in owning a Journey CD without Arnel's vocals. In fact, I've been told pointblank after they named songs they would like him to sing, why not buy the CDs, and was told they're not interested without Arnel. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Meh, I don't like either version. But my problem with the song is the lyrics, rather than either of its singers. They just don't work for me, but, if the song is appealing to you all, that's ok, too.

I never let bad lyrics ruin a good song for me, but I will let bad music/performance ruin good lyrics. Guess that's why I'm not into Dylan too much. That said, lyrics are never exactly Journey's trump card. What's so much worse about FiTH?

Dylan is one of those singers I just never got into. I just can't see the appeal there.

Dylan sucks my nuts as a performer,his song writing skills are great. As far as Faith, they did it either to give the last kick in the balls to Steve A, or faga ran out of shit to write,or both. It didnt belong on Revelations.I skip it and spit every time it comes up on the cd

[perryswoman]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

I agree. Faith in the Heartland shouldn't have been re-recorded. Why the producer preferred it this way, I don't know.

Rip, you can play it and you will not get the vast majority of Arnel's fans to think it's better. As far as widening the perspective of new fans, for the most part that is not going to happen. Most have no interest in owning a Journey CD without Arnel's vocals. In fact, I've been told pointblank after they named songs they would like him to sing, why not buy the CDs, and was told they're not interested without Arnel. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Meh, I don't like either version. But my problem with the song is the lyrics, rather than either of its singers. They just don't work for me, but, if the song is appealing to you all, that's ok, too.

I never let bad lyrics ruin a good song for me, but I will let bad music/performance ruin good lyrics. Guess that's why I'm not into Dylan too much. That said, lyrics are never exactly Journey's trump card. What's so much worse about FiTH?

Dylan is one of those singers I just never got into. I just can't see the appeal there.

Dylan sucks my nuts as a performer,his song writing skills are great. As far as Faith, they did it either to give the last kick in the balls to Steve A, or faga ran out of shit to write,or both. It didnt belong on Revelations.I skip it and spit every time it comes up on the cd

Okay so now friga is faga? LOL

[stevew2]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

I agree. Faith in the Heartland shouldn't have been re-recorded. Why the producer preferred it this way, I don't know.

Rip, you can play it and you will not get the vast majority of Arnel's fans to think it's better. As far as widening the perspective of new fans, for the most part that is not going to happen. Most have no interest in owning a Journey CD without Arnel's vocals. In fact, I've been told pointblank after they named songs they would like him to sing, why not buy the CDs, and was told they're not interested without Arnel. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Meh, I don't like either version. But my problem with the song is the lyrics, rather than either of its singers. They just don't work for me, but, if the song is appealing to you all, that's ok, too.

I never let bad lyrics ruin a good song for me, but I will let bad music/performance ruin good lyrics. Guess that's why I'm not into Dylan too much. That said, lyrics are never exactly Journey's trump card. What's so much worse about FiTH?

Dylan is one of those singers I just never got into. I just can't see the appeal there.

Dylan sucks my nuts as a performer,his song writing skills are great. As far as Faith, they did it either to give the last kick in the balls to Steve A, or faga ran out of shit to write,or both. It didnt belong on Revelations.I skip it and spit every time it comes up on the cd

Okay so now friga is faga? LOL

he always was, i just didnt say it

[SherriBerry]

In Andrew's interview with Herbie Herbert, HH talks about Kevin Chalfant already being knocked down a half step from the original key and thought that was why he didn't get the job as lead singer. He also noted that a half step down produces a significant change in tonality and that Journey has always had an obsession with playing the songs in the original key. The fact that they are willing to make that change now, but not less than two years ago, indicates to me that they are going to do whatever they can to make sure the band continues with Arnel.

At this point, I think the only change in lead singers they could survive is either Deen taking over the vocals and continuing as the drummer or Steve Perry returning, so they have too much at stake with Arnel to hang on to a half step on the originals. But I agree it's odd to tune down on the Revelations material. I wonder what the new material on their next CD will sound like, because they can only tune down so far before they lose the "legacy sound". How far can they go?

[Aaron]

Hopefully not too far as a half step down sucks!

In Andrew's interview with Herbie Herbert, HH talks about Kevin Chalfant already being knocked down a half step from the original key and thought that was why he didn't get the job as lead singer. He also noted that a half step down produces a significant change in tonality and that Journey has always had an obsession with playing the songs in the original key. The fact that they are willing to make that change now, but not less than two years ago, indicates to me that they are going to do whatever they can to make sure the band continues with Arnel.

At this point, I think the only change in lead singers they could survive is either Deen taking over the vocals and continuing as the drummer or Steve Perry returning, so they have too much at stake with Arnel to hang on to a half step on the originals. But I agree it's odd to tune down on the Revelations material. I wonder what the new material on their next CD will sound like, because they can only tune down so far before they lose the "legacy sound". How far can they go?

[skinsguy]

Honest question: And this isn't to start anything other than a simple debate for conversation sake:

Cain said before that he wanted the "legacy Sound". He said he wanted the band to sound like their records. Wouldn't tuning songs, even 1/2 step off, not sound like the records?

I mean, don't get me wrong, if they can make it work, fine. I know Perry sang Journey songs on his last solo effort in a lower tone, and I thought it sounded pretty good. But then again, we're talking about Steve Perry. But, I just think it's the principle of the matter, that Jon Cain did say in an interview (I can't remember which one, but I know I heard it) that he wanted the band to sound like they do on the records when they go out and perform....in so many words of course. What I'm still perplexed on is why they are also down tuning the Revelation songs?

I'll tender an answer, but of course, it may not be the case. But this is how I see it: I think they [Journey] are paranoid. As I have mentioned time and time again, I truly believe that they recognize that Arnel Pineda is their last shot for credibility. They hired a singer after the great Steve Perry, worked with him for eight years, and then dropped him for another replacement when they perceived greater success with him. Apparently he didn't deliver on the goods and so they dumped him for Arnel. You have a band whose history is tied up with tremendous and frequent personnel changes. Steve Perry is their most identifiable member and Arnel, moreso than Augeri or Soto, has yielded considerable success and acclaim for his talent. If they lose Arnel, they're done. For good.

And so I think they're taking all the necessary precautions they can think of to ensure that his voice lasts.

I would have liked to have heard a Journey record with Jeff Scott Soto before I would say he didn't deliver the goods.

[EME]

This is my first visit in several months.

This place doesn't dissapoint...5 pages of blurb because of semi tone.

Lunatics the lot of you

As a 'casual observer'...to these well worn lugs, it's still their best album since Escape.

No really, it is.....

Kind Regards,
EME

[Gideon]

Honest question: And this isn't to start anything other than a simple debate for conversation sake:

Cain said before that he wanted the "legacy Sound". He said he wanted the band to sound like their records. Wouldn't tuning songs, even 1/2 step off, not sound like the records?

I mean, don't get me wrong, if they can make it work, fine. I know Perry sang Journey songs on his last solo effort in a lower tone, and I thought it sounded pretty good. But then again, we're talking about Steve Perry. But, I just think it's the principle of the matter, that Jon Cain did say in an interview (I can't remember which one, but I know I heard it) that he wanted the band to sound like they do on the records when they go out and perform....in so many words of course. What I'm still perplexed on is why they are also down tuning the Revelation songs?

I'll tender an answer, but of course, it may not be the case. But this is how I see it: I think they [Journey] are paranoid. As I have mentioned time and time again, I truly believe that they recognize that Arnel Pineda is their last shot for credibility. They hired a singer after the great Steve Perry, worked with him for eight years, and then dropped him for another replacement when they perceived greater success with him. Apparently he didn't deliver on the goods and so they dumped him for Arnel. You have a band whose history is tied up with tremendous and frequent personnel changes. Steve Perry is their most identifiable member and Arnel, moreso than Augeri or Soto, has yielded considerable success and acclaim for his talent. If they lose Arnel, they're done. For good.

And so I think they're taking all the necessary precautions they can think of to ensure that his voice lasts.

I would have liked to have heard a Journey record with Jeff Scott Soto before I would say he didn't deliver the goods.

It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter what I think. That was what they thought; they didn't feel he could deliver on the legacy sound. Hence why he's gone.

[journey361]

My 2 cents: It happened to the great one and i bet you with the songook being what it is, i agree that Neil and the boys are thinking that if they lose Arnel because of this, their done, finished. This is it for them, they have dug themselves from the grave, straight to Ellen's D's show and even halftime of the STUPID-BOWL. This is all so dam funny, tuning it down, lol. Maybe it's time for Arnel to call Neil and John to the edge of the pier, and tell them he wants to stop, he's toast, get off-the-merry-go-round. Arnel is a hell of a talent, god bless him, i just hope he doesn't lose his gift as the great one did, no matter what Randy Jackson has stated.

[steveo777]

Yeah, I can't stand Arnel's version of "Faith in the Heartland."

I think re-recording the song was a mistake, because the new one just didn't measure up. It's not AP's fault, but I found the pace to drag a bit, and the instrumental section at the end was truncated and gutted of all the things I loved about the original (like Neal's killer feedback which was so present, and Dean's pounding drums). Adding keys over all that made it a jumbled sonic mess, with nothing standing out. I can tolerate the song up until the instrumental section, but it's just not the same -- that was Steve A's song, and his version kicks A.

For people who have only heard the Revelation version, I can understand if they'd be partial to it against the original, but to me there is just no comparison. I tried to find copies of Generations in Cali and Manila to play for people who hadn't heard it, but couldn't find it (I finally did in Cali but it was too late). Even went looking for a copy of Journey's Greatest Hits with Steve Perry to give to a friend there. I've been hoping to widen the perspective for those whose experience with the band started only with Revelation, or who missed the Augeri era. I just think it's great to have a well-rounded perspective, and it also should result in more appreciation for ALL the singers and the legacy that AP is carrying on these days. That's good for everyone.

I agree. Faith in the Heartland shouldn't have been re-recorded. Why the producer preferred it this way, I don't know.

Rip, you can play it and you will not get the vast majority of Arnel's fans to think it's better. As far as widening the perspective of new fans, for the most part that is not going to happen. Most have no interest in owning a Journey CD without Arnel's vocals. In fact, I've been told pointblank after they named songs they would like him to sing, why not buy the CDs, and was told they're not interested without Arnel. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Meh, I don't like either version. But my problem with the song is the lyrics, rather than either of its singers. They just don't work for me, but, if the song is appealing to you all, that's ok, too.

I never let bad lyrics ruin a good song for me, but I will let bad music/performance ruin good lyrics. Guess that's why I'm not into Dylan too much. That said, lyrics are never exactly Journey's trump card. What's so much worse about FiTH?

Dylan is one of those singers I just never got into. I just can't see the appeal there.

Dylan sucks my nuts as a performer,his song writing skills are great. As far as Faith, they did it either to give the last kick in the balls to Steve A, or faga ran out of shit to write,or both. It didnt belong on Revelations.I skip it and spit every time it comes up on the cd

Okay so now friga is faga? LOL

he always was, i just didnt say it

He told me to tell you this; I get more ass than you....and it's not "man ass" like you, son.

[Aaron]

Did you see Journey with JSS live? What did you think?

Honest question: And this isn't to start anything other than a simple debate for conversation sake:

Cain said before that he wanted the "legacy Sound". He said he wanted the band to sound like their records. Wouldn't tuning songs, even 1/2 step off, not sound like the records?

I mean, don't get me wrong, if they can make it work, fine. I know Perry sang Journey songs on his last solo effort in a lower tone, and I thought it sounded pretty good. But then again, we're talking about Steve Perry. But, I just think it's the principle of the matter, that Jon Cain did say in an interview (I can't remember which one, but I know I heard it) that he wanted the band to sound like they do on the records when they go out and perform....in so many words of course. What I'm still perplexed on is why they are also down tuning the Revelation songs?

I'll tender an answer, but of course, it may not be the case. But this is how I see it: I think they [Journey] are paranoid. As I have mentioned time and time again, I truly believe that they recognize that Arnel Pineda is their last shot for credibility. They hired a singer after the great Steve Perry, worked with him for eight years, and then dropped him for another replacement when they perceived greater success with him. Apparently he didn't deliver on the goods and so they dumped him for Arnel. You have a band whose history is tied up with tremendous and frequent personnel changes. Steve Perry is their most identifiable member and Arnel, moreso than Augeri or Soto, has yielded considerable success and acclaim for his talent. If they lose Arnel, they're done. For good.

And so I think they're taking all the necessary precautions they can think of to ensure that his voice lasts.

I would have liked to have heard a Journey record with Jeff Scott Soto before I would say he didn't deliver the goods.

[Saint John]

I would have liked to have heard a Journey record with Jeff Scott Soto before I would say he didn't deliver the goods.

Soto and Journey get spared the ridicule that an album with him would have surely brought, and he was martyred with the way his dismissal went down. His fans get the benefit of arguing that the album wouldn't have failed (which it sure would have...the guy isn't Journey material) and Journey's members and management look like the bad guys. This guy got a great deal.

[Aaron]

I'm with you man, it just didn't sound anything like Journey.

I would have liked to have heard a Journey record with Jeff Scott Soto before I would say he didn't deliver the goods.

Soto and Journey get spared the ridicule that an album with him would have surely brought, and he was martyred with the way his dismissal went down. His fans get the benefit of arguing that the album wouldn't have failed (which it sure would have...the guy isn't Journey material) and Journey's members and management look like the bad guys. This guy got a great deal.