Amsterdam set list

[Jana]

Gunbot, I think you initiated a confusion here and still doing it.

All the responses to rdekker were valid and not disrespectful at all. He stated his opinion and people responded appropriately with what they saw on youtube.

Then you started saying people are attacking a neutral fan who gave an honest review. I was like wtf!
And I realized on your later post that you're talking about AP site. I don't read stuff on that site and you
should have been been clear where you're getting the bashing info from instead of making a generalization.

Now as far as brywool and portland are concern...hmmm.... no clear winner there, both are wrong and right at the same time. Just enjoy the ride you two.

Thank you. I've been around long enough not to comment on many of the people here. I've always been a Journey fan and will always be, no matter what singer they have, as long as Neal is in the band I'm a fan.

I've never been involved in the name calling and swearing at other people, just don't believe in that. I just pointed out my view of last wednesdays concert and if you can''t handle that, I'm sorry it's just that I've seen enough Journey concerts to give an honest and indeed respectful review, I will never ever bring them down like other people here do sometimes.

I've also asked Neal his opinion about last wednesday and here's what he said:

"Don't know quite what u mean... thought it was a great show. We liked it.
This is something that happens to everybody, For the most part I feel were very consistent compared to other bands I've seen. But then again you have your opinion that your entitled to. Everyones different."

So Neal didnt agree with me either but at least he's respects what I think.

Neal said it all. We did not know where you're coming from when you COMPARED the audience participation from the previous years by disagreeing with you. This is something you can at least measure.

Had you said that you did not enjoyed the concert as much as the previous years, then that's a different story and we can totally respect that.

I don't think it's a slam, we're just questioning how did you come up with your observation.

Well, sorry to hear that you did not enjoy the show. But it's all good, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Maybe it's a good thing that there's one or maybe two who disagreed. But right now we are drowning with too many positive reviews not only from the Journey fans but from professionals and fans of different bands. And so far the only people who gave negative reviews were members of this site who don't particularly like Arnel. Just sayin'

Just curious, how many shows have you gone to with Augeri and JSS? I believe Rdekker has been to quite a few. I think by him being there in person, he can have a better perception of whats going on then someone watching a youtube video and he has the other shows to compare to.
Neal is never going to say they had a bad show show or anything to that effect. Even if Perry said he wasn't up to par, Neal would be in a second later saying how much they rocked. We rely on the fan reviews as those are the honest ones. The singing, we can get an idea of from youtube but what Rdekker was talking about, you have to be there to see it, don't you?
Negative reviews at this site from people who don't like Arnel? What do you expect? This isn't plokker central.
Being realistic, I would think if a person here didn't like Arnel, they wouldn't even be at the concert to give a review. Tickets aren't exactly cheap. As for others here giving armchair reviews, why are you even concerned about that, that's how we roll around here and you're not going to change that.
Every guy has an off night (and singing wise that was never even implied in the review here). With the sickness issues that Arnel constantly goes through, you're setting up your idol for a big fall by insinuating (even if not intentionally) that he's incapable of fallacy. I've been at a live show by Perry on the Escape tour (Perry's prime) where he wasn't 100% so I know it can happen to anyone.


P.S.
When I saw the band last year, AP was fighting it. Tired, on the last week of the tour, he couldn't hold the high notes that well. But he gave the effort and he sparkled on WYLAW. When I did my review, I included all that. With out that one song, the night would have belonged to Heart but AP came through in the clutch.
Bad review? No, honest review.

Gunbot, I rarely agree with you on anything these days, but spot on. It's a Journey fan who belongs to this site, who did not give a bad review. He can say the audience reaction wasn't as good compared to other shows and really doesn't have to prove it to anybody. It's his opinion from being there. And Arnel's fans to be on here and be so thinskinned on a okay review (not bashing) need to lighten up. And to take his review and move it to AP's site for remarks to be made was wrong and Steve777 should have just debated it here with him.

I go to plenty of my favorite bands' concerts and sometimes leave just not as fulfilled as other times and don't feel the energy, and the people I went with think it's fantastic. Does that make me wrong? And his perception of the audience's reaction is subjective and what he felt being there, but someone else's experience might be different. So he's entitled to it. Just like that other review on here from Paris talking about Neal's performance. I haven't heard one remark about Neal being sluggish in Europe, but each to his own. That was the reviewer's perception and has her right to state that on here. And another reviewer on here stated Neal was fantastic on the same night. See, perception people.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Sometimes the audience just isnt that hot.. or at least doesnt seem that hot to other people. No big deal. When I saw Journey with JSS they put on a great show but the crowd just didnt seem that pumped up to me. When I saw them last year the crowd were fantastic.

[steveo777]

Gunbot, I think you initiated a confusion here and still doing it.

All the responses to rdekker were valid and not disrespectful at all. He stated his opinion and people responded appropriately with what they saw on youtube.

Then you started saying people are attacking a neutral fan who gave an honest review. I was like wtf!
And I realized on your later post that you're talking about AP site. I don't read stuff on that site and you
should have been been clear where you're getting the bashing info from instead of making a generalization.

Now as far as brywool and portland are concern...hmmm.... no clear winner there, both are wrong and right at the same time. Just enjoy the ride you two.

Thank you. I've been around long enough not to comment on many of the people here. I've always been a Journey fan and will always be, no matter what singer they have, as long as Neal is in the band I'm a fan.

I've never been involved in the name calling and swearing at other people, just don't believe in that. I just pointed out my view of last wednesdays concert and if you can''t handle that, I'm sorry it's just that I've seen enough Journey concerts to give an honest and indeed respectful review, I will never ever bring them down like other people here do sometimes.

I've also asked Neal his opinion about last wednesday and here's what he said:

"Don't know quite what u mean... thought it was a great show. We liked it.
This is something that happens to everybody, For the most part I feel were very consistent compared to other bands I've seen. But then again you have your opinion that your entitled to. Everyones different."

So Neal didnt agree with me either but at least he's respects what I think.

Neal said it all. We did not know where you're coming from when you COMPARED the audience participation from the previous years by disagreeing with you. This is something you can at least measure.

Had you said that you did not enjoyed the concert as much as the previous years, then that's a different story and we can totally respect that.

I don't think it's a slam, we're just questioning how did you come up with your observation.

Well, sorry to hear that you did not enjoy the show. But it's all good, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Maybe it's a good thing that there's one or maybe two who disagreed. But right now we are drowning with too many positive reviews not only from the Journey fans but from professionals and fans of different bands. And so far the only people who gave negative reviews were members of this site who don't particularly like Arnel. Just sayin'

Just curious, how many shows have you gone to with Augeri and JSS? I believe Rdekker has been to quite a few. I think by him being there in person, he can have a better perception of whats going on then someone watching a youtube video and he has the other shows to compare to.
Neal is never going to say they had a bad show show or anything to that effect. Even if Perry said he wasn't up to par, Neal would be in a second later saying how much they rocked. We rely on the fan reviews as those are the honest ones. The singing, we can get an idea of from youtube but what Rdekker was talking about, you have to be there to see it, don't you?
Negative reviews at this site from people who don't like Arnel? What do you expect? This isn't plokker central.
Being realistic, I would think if a person here didn't like Arnel, they wouldn't even be at the concert to give a review. Tickets aren't exactly cheap. As for others here giving armchair reviews, why are you even concerned about that, that's how we roll around here and you're not going to change that.
Every guy has an off night (and singing wise that was never even implied in the review here). With the sickness issues that Arnel constantly goes through, you're setting up your idol for a big fall by insinuating (even if not intentionally) that he's incapable of fallacy. I've been at a live show by Perry on the Escape tour (Perry's prime) where he wasn't 100% so I know it can happen to anyone.


P.S.
When I saw the band last year, AP was fighting it. Tired, on the last week of the tour, he couldn't hold the high notes that well. But he gave the effort and he sparkled on WYLAW. When I did my review, I included all that. With out that one song, the night would have belonged to Heart but AP came through in the clutch.
Bad review? No, honest review.

Gunbot, I rarely agree with you on anything these days, but spot on. It's a Journey fan who belongs to this site, who did not give a bad review. He can say the audience reaction wasn't as good compared to other shows and really doesn't have to prove it to anybody. It's his opinion from being there. And Arnel's fans to be on here and be so thinskinned on a okay review (not bashing) need to lighten up. And to take his review and move it to AP's site for remarks to be made was wrong and Steve777 should have just debated it here with him.

I go to plenty of my favorite bands' concerts and sometimes leave just not as fulfilled as other times and don't feel the energy, and the people I went with think it's fantastic. Does that make me wrong? And his perception of the audience's reaction is subjective and what he felt being there, but someone else's experience might be different. So he's entitled to it. Just like that other review on here from Paris talking about Neal's performance. I haven't heard one remark about Neal being sluggish in Europe, but each to his own. That was the reviewer's perception and has her right to state that on here. And another reviewer on here stated Neal was fantastic on the same night. See, perception people.

My dear Jana, I did not take the review to AP's site. I only commented in the thread there and my intial comment was

Thank you for not posting the review. I've already read it and it was kind of negative.

And I said this later, as the following was my opinion on the matter, considering that the Youtubes and other reviews I was seeing did not align with what was posted here.

Yep, the review at MR was probably by someone who has not moved on and gotten over the past. YT vid sounds and looks good to me.

Here was my intitial comment when this thread was first posted:

Hmmm, this is the worst review I've seen in some time. I wonder what was off? We'll have to wait to see the Youtubes, I guess.

I didn't call for the reviewers head. I was just curious what went wrong and said we'll have to wait and see the vids.

[Jana]

True, Steve. I forgot. After you posted that, someone came on his site and linked it. I stand corrected.

[Don]

True, Steve. I forgot. After you posted that, someone came on his site and linked it. I stand corrected.

I still don't see how youtube videos can prove a person's perception of what he felt, especially when there aren't clear videos of shows from the past that show what he was alluding to.

If the guy critiqued the singing of Arnel, then you could have a debate but he didn't. People seemed to have assumed he did and ran with that even though it was never the case.

The timing issue is another thing that you would have to be there to get a vibe for, but that wasn't exactly a negative point, a lot of live acts have timing issues and it has been noted in some of Journey's other shows this year, just like stepping down and other things that only a veteran concert goer or musician might notice but the casual fan wouldn't even be aware of.

From what I can tell, people are so defensive of AP, they jump the gun on things that aren't even really slights on the man.
Sometimes, in Arnel's case, nationalism makes people blind to all else. When that happens, it's no longer just about the music.

[steveo777]

I never said it was a bad show, just said it wasn't the best I've seen them do. I the 13 shows I've now seen this wasn't top 5 but still a great show.
I was sitting at the balcony and the sound there wasn't as good as in some of the youtube vids I've now seen.

Tonights show in Amsterdam wasn't the best i've seen, Arnel'voice sounded ggod but his timing just wasn't right. Ross and Neal also looked irritated about that a few times. Setlist:

Majestic
Seperate Ways (new arrangement)
Never Walk Away
Onlly the Young
Ask the Lonely
Stone in Love
After all these Years
Change for the Better
Neal Jon acousstic and hharp intro
Wheel in the sky (cut short imo)
Lights
What I needed
Jon intro
Open Arms
Mother Father (Een vocals and best song of the show)
Wildest Dreams
Escape
Faithfully
Don't stop believing
Any way you want it
encore:
Lovin Touching Squeezin
Be Good to yourself

Heineken Music Hall was close to sell out but band - crowd interaction was nowhere as good as 2006 and 2007 shows in Holland.

Sometimes seating position is everything. Last summer I was strongly disappointed in the sound at the concert I attended, but yet people who had other seats reported that it sounded great. I'll take it as that it was not one of your better experiences. It happens. It's happened to me. Of course there will always be those "off with their heads" types who jump on the band wagon and diss the band forever over one bad gig.

[Eric]

Sometimes the audience just isnt that hot.. or at least doesnt seem that hot to other people. No big deal. When I saw Journey with JSS they put on a great show but the crowd just didnt seem that pumped up to me. When I saw them last year the crowd were fantastic.

Shit...a hot Friday versus a chilly Tuesday night can make all the difference in a crowd.

[Don]

Sometimes the audience just isnt that hot.. or at least doesnt seem that hot to other people. No big deal. When I saw Journey with JSS they put on a great show but the crowd just didnt seem that pumped up to me. When I saw them last year the crowd were fantastic.

Shit...a hot Friday versus a chilly Tuesday night can make all the difference in a crowd.

Even bad beer at the concession stand can turn a crowd.

[yulog]

Okay I get that you think it gets old....and I have said that I am trying to refrain from coming into a AP thread and saying that SP is better......but do you understand that I don't like the new stuff.....and don't think that they should have re-recorded the songs that I liked the way they were...and that fuels my dislike of the new lineup?

The re-records have been debated ad nasium. I understand why they did it. It was business. I will say there are one or two that I like better than the original [Only the Young]. But it's pretty clear they were forced into that. I'm sure they ALL felt funky about it.

I do not follow each and every one of your responses, so I'm not sure how I'd know that you're trying to refrain from this that, or smoking.

I got raked over the coals by others and I was assuming you were going to be next....I really don't think that I compare to Madsplash as I don't come here saying I have inside information and I am the biggest fan of Steve Perry...and I have said that I actually like Arrival. I don't think I would say that if I was such a Perry Loon...as SA is the one who filled the spot after the TBF breakup.

I have NEVER used the word Loon (at least I don't think so). I try not to. Madsplash, who I actually admire his/her tenacity gets under my skin with his constant chewing upon the perry scrote, but I appreciate him/her.

I wish no ill will to AP and I think it is great that he seems to be doing well with the tour....but Maybe it's the part of me that thinks Neal shoud have waited...or maybe it's the offhanded comments he makes....it just does not bode well for me to say..oh well I love the new line up....lastly I really have issues with AP's delivery of the songs....it may be that my ears are just used to SP and when I put on the re-records it made me say no thanks....

Maybe you don't know, but Neal and the boys waited YEARS YEARS for HIM to come back or make up his mind on his 'surgery'. The fact of the matter is Perry's voice wasn't up to the tour and from the stories out there he had a VERY difficult time completing TBF. Probably his hips weren't up to it either. There was also something out there about how Perry told his band (basically) "I gotta go do this Journey album, and then we will pick up where we left off". Now, according to Madspash (I think) Perry's voice has recovered and we'd all better watch out because he's going to blow us away with his next utterance. God, I hope so. I'd love nothing more than to hear the Perry of old. Honestly. Doesn't mean I can't dig Revelation and Arnel's Journey. I'd like to have both vocalists out there.

I don't expect you to agree, but the other thing is if we all loved the new line up things would be a little boring around here...we would have nothing to discuss.

Yes, it would be dull, but at least it wouldn't be just the same thing all the time. I try to stay away from here, but I've met some people that I like talking to, so ...

As I said before I will try to be more careful in my posting.....I do not want to disrespect AP....for I do not have a issue with him.

Do what you gotta do.

As for Arnel's site, I was on an ap site a long time ago that was pretty cool. Rip was on there a lot, but I hadn't been there for ages. I just became a member of the Arnelrocks site (or whatever it is), but I've not read anything there yet. So I haven't seen what's being talked about. I know a lot of the Arnelians are saying he's better than Perry or whatever... I really don't make those comparisons (I don't think). Arnel, Perry, Augeri, and Jss all have their good points and each of them brought something to the party, some more than others.

I don't think JSS should be lumped as a member of Journey. He never was, he was just a replacement for a tour. When people say JSS was a lead singer for Journey, I just don't feel a connection, esp since what happened. JSS seems cool though, love Believe in Me.

Technically he was a member.. i guess you would put him with fleischman,both did live stuff but no albums...actually fleischman has writing credit on 1 or more of there hit songs so Soto would be just squeeking in at the bottom, more like a relief pitcher

[Don]

As for Arnel's site, I was on an ap site a long time ago that was pretty cool. Rip was on there a lot, but I hadn't been there for ages. I just became a member of the Arnelrocks site (or whatever it is), but I've not read anything there yet. So I haven't seen what's being talked about. I know a lot of the Arnelians are saying he's better than Perry or whatever... I really don't make those comparisons (I don't think). Arnel, Perry, Augeri, and Jss all have their good points and each of them brought something to the party, some more than others.

Hey, Bry!

Glad you joined up and hope you visit sometime -- would love to have you. We're trying to maintain a positive vibe there, and discourage singer vs. singer debates. What is entertaining isn't always healthy, ya know.

COOL- ya sold me. Need a new place to hang that's a bit more 'happy'.
Rip, is that new site the same as the old with a facelift? Whoever did it, did a great job. Nice looking site.

I roll through there several times a day, as I do with the Journey music site. Got to stay in the game somehow.

[Chubby321]

To Gunbot:

Just curious, how many shows have you gone to with Augeri and JSS? I believe Rdekker has been to quite a few. I think by him being there in person, he can have a better perception of whats going on then someone watching a youtube video and he has the other shows to compare to. We rely on the fan reviews as those are the honest ones.
The singing, we can get an idea of from youtube but what Rdekker was talking about, you have to be there to see it, don't you?

You're vouching for the objectivity of his perception but you can’t definitely say it’s true either because you’re not there, right? So what's wrong with me questioning the objectivity of his perception based from the youtube vids that I saw?

I agree with you that the fan reviews are honest. You can see right through them. But reviews are very subjective and it is human nature not to be satisfied if you are not fully invested.

Negative reviews at this site from people who don't like Arnel? What do you expect? This isn't plokker central.

I know it’s not plokker central, but me posting my opinion gave you the chance to disagree. And I know you love to disagree with me and I’m fine with that, just stay away from my computer will you.

When I expressed my opinion to Redkker, I did it respectfully. I even told him that he’s entitled to his own opinion.

Being realistic, I would think if a person here didn't like Arnel, they wouldn't even be at the concert to give a review. Tickets aren't exactly cheap.

It’s possible especially if he digs the band except Arnel. There were so many posts here last year about them loving the band but not sure about Arnel..

Maybe he got his ticket for free…but only he can say for sure.

As for others here giving armchair reviews, why are you even concerned about that, that's how we roll around here and you're not going to change that.

Nah, does not bother me that much, I just expressed what I thought did not jive with what I saw.
I perfectly understand how people roll around here; I read so many threads here as far back as April of 2007.

Every guy has an off night (and singing wise that was never even implied in the review here). With the sickness issues that Arnel constantly goes through, you're setting up your idol for a big fall by insinuating (even if not intentionally) that he's incapable of fallacy. I've been at a live show by Perry on the Escape tour (Perry's prime) where he wasn't 100% so I know it can happen to anyone.

True, but let's be honest, if you post here that Perry is not up to far, you know for sure that even the dead Perry loons will come out and chew your ass.


Jana wrote……….See, perception people.

Precisely my argument; my perception is different from his.

Btw, I did not say bad review…just negative.

I AM GLAD THAT YOU VISIT US AT AP'S SITE A FEW TIMES A DAY. THERE ARE GOOD STUFF THERE TOO YOU KNOW.

[Don]

To Gunbot:

Just curious, how many shows have you gone to with Augeri and JSS? I believe Rdekker has been to quite a few. I think by him being there in person, he can have a better perception of whats going on then someone watching a youtube video and he has the other shows to compare to. We rely on the fan reviews as those are the honest ones.
The singing, we can get an idea of from youtube but what Rdekker was talking about, you have to be there to see it, don't you?

You're vouching for the objectivity of his perception but you can’t definitely say it’s true either because you’re not there, right? So what's wrong with me questioning the objectivity of his perception based from the youtube vids that I saw?

I agree with you that the fan reviews are honest. You can see right through them. But reviews are very subjective and it is human nature not to be satisfied if you are not fully invested.

Negative reviews at this site from people who don't like Arnel? What do you expect? This isn't plokker central.

I know it’s not plokker central, but me posting my opinion gave you the chance to disagree. And I know you love to disagree with me and I’m fine with that, just stay away from my computer will you.

When I expressed my opinion to Redkker, I did it respectfully. I even told him that he’s entitled to his own opinion.

Being realistic, I would think if a person here didn't like Arnel, they wouldn't even be at the concert to give a review. Tickets aren't exactly cheap.

It’s possible especially if he digs the band except Arnel. There were so many posts here last year about them loving the band but not sure about Arnel..

Maybe he got his ticket for free…but only he can say for sure.

As for others here giving armchair reviews, why are you even concerned about that, that's how we roll around here and you're not going to change that.

Nah, does not bother me that much, I just expressed what I thought did not jive with what I saw.
I perfectly understand how people roll around here; I read so many threads here as far back as April of 2007.

Every guy has an off night (and singing wise that was never even implied in the review here). With the sickness issues that Arnel constantly goes through, you're setting up your idol for a big fall by insinuating (even if not intentionally) that he's incapable of fallacy. I've been at a live show by Perry on the Escape tour (Perry's prime) where he wasn't 100% so I know it can happen to anyone.

True, but let's be honest, if you post here that Perry is not up to far, you know for sure that even the dead Perry loons will come out and chew your ass.


Jana wrote……….See, perception people.

Precisely my argument; my perception is different from his.

Btw, I did not say bad review…just negative.

I AM GLAD THAT YOU VISIT US AT AP'S SITE A FEW TIMES A DAY. THERE ARE GOOD STUFF THERE TOO YOU KNOW.

I was going to argue some more but enough is enough I guess.
Talk to you later

[Chubby321]

You <3 me?

Should I start running for my life now?

[Don]

You <3 me?

Should I start running for my life now?

I've been neutered so you're pretty safe.

[Jana]

Here's an Amsterdam review I found on JM from a fan:

Great show in Amsterdam again!
this was the fourth time we saw the band. First one with Steve Augeri, second with JSS and the last two with Arnel.
All were great but this last gig was the best weve ever seen.
Too bad Journey did not play songs from Arrival and Generations. I wonder why that is because there are some great songs on these two albums. But heay, were not complaning. Thanks guys wish you all the best and see you soon! Netherlands.

[Chubby321]

Here's another one from J forum, you will find a few more reviews over there.


http://www.journeymusic.com/pages/tourarchive/87

ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!

I've been a Journey fan since Infinity, and yesterday I was blown away!! Ass-kicking show!!!

Who needs Steve Perry? Damn, this little guy is full of energy!! I'm a singer myself and I was waiting for the moment Arnel's voice would break down, but that didn't happen. This guy is the best!!!

The concert was beyond expectation!!

It's a pity you didn't sell the DVD, because I'm sure you could have made a lot of money with it because it's not for sale over here.

Thank you guys!! You rock!!

Marius

[Chubby321]

Credit goes to Gigi of AP's site.

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... urney.html

Last night I went to the concert of American band Journey have in the Heineken Music Hall. I will but right in the door in the house fall, it was really fantastic! Two hours great numbers from the oeuvre of this rock band heard in a masterly manner played werden. De new singer Arnel Pineda is a small man but what a voice and that two hours lang. Zeer enthusiastic jumping, klappend and the highest notes halend continued an amazing piece of craftsmanship down ongelooflijk. En than super guitarist Neal Schon, really fiery guitar solo`s were to emerge from his guitar, he played the pans of the dak. De drummer Dean Castro Novo could also witness some of his drumming but hakkende he also showed another great witness to sing the beautiful song Mother Father.De two bandmates bassist Ross Valory and stroke guitarist, piano / keyboard player Jonathan Cain were not from the show and contributed to a splendid band action.

The public was also very excited because we got good value for money!

The setlist consisted of songs Separate Ways, Never Walk Away, Only the Young, Ask the Lonely, Stone in Love, After All These Years, Change For The Better, Wheels in the Sky, Lights, What I Needed, Open Arms, Mother Father, lusiada Dreams, Escape, Faith Fully, Don `t Stop Believing, Any Way You Want It, Lovin Touching Squeezing and Be Good To Yourself.

Posted by Herman Geritz on 18.6.09
Midlum, Friesland, Netherlands
Never to old to rock and to run!

[JrnySuxBalls]

Pot is legal in Amsterdam.
I'm just saying...

Jon Cain on harp, you've gotta be high for that.