Senator Friga?

[Arianddu]

First, what a good person. A well intended individual.

Having said that though, fuck music and arts. Jon Cain did NOT need music in the public schools. He's a natural. Did Neal need music in the classroom, I think not - the man hardly went to school.

1. Natural talent only takes you so far. Having a teacher to get you over the bumps and hurdles, to help you work it out, is what gives basic talent the jump to brilliance.

2. Jon talked about being grateful to his music teacher, because she gave him the direction to take his skill and enthusiasm, and gave him the support he needed to take his music further.

3. Neal's father was a frigging music teacher.

[stevew2]

First, what a good person. A well intended individual.

Having said that though, fuck music and arts. Jon Cain did NOT need music in the public schools. He's a natural. Did Neal need music in the classroom, I think not - the man hardly went to school.

1. Natural talent only takes you so far. Having a teacher to get you over the bumps and hurdles, to help you work it out, is what gives basic talent the jump to brilliance.

2. Jon talked about being grateful to his music teacher, because she gave him the direction to take his skill and enthusiasm, and gave him the support he needed to take his music further.

3. Neal's father was a frigging music teacher.

And inspiered Mother Father,Tito is a retard

[Arianddu]

First, what a good person. A well intended individual.

Having said that though, fuck music and arts. Jon Cain did NOT need music in the public schools. He's a natural. Did Neal need music in the classroom, I think not - the man hardly went to school. These rock/music education commercials make me puke. Most of the performers today, do not have formal training and can't even read music. It is truly a natural talent, same thing with art. Music in the schools had nothing to do with their success. I highly doubt learning "Hot Cross Buns" on a flute made them rock stars.

Also, if his school did not burn down, would he be up there advocating for this? No. Another thing, he didn't move because he couldn't step inside the new school, he moved just like all the other families did - white flight as the neighborhood changed. He would've moved even if the school didn't burn down. He had no choice, Tyrone made that decision for him and his family.

As far as the argument goes, students do better in school with music is bullshit. They're band geeks. They're the nerds of the school. If it wasn't music, it would be something else and the dorks would still get the good grades.

Finally, unfortunately, judging by his views on this topic and other things in the past, I would say Mr. Cain is probably to the left...which disappoints. I figured he was a democrat but a blue collar-Reagan Democrat, which would be ok. Now, I think Hollywood got a hold of him and he's too far to the left. So, though I think he's a good person and I respect him (and could probably work with him in a bi-partisan fashion on certain issues), I would NOT vote for him. Sorry Jon.

Tito, this is about the dumbest thing you have ever said, well next to all the racist remarks you have made in the past. Arts are needed in our schools desperately. I am an art nerd in your eyes I guess. I have seen art take children from disadvantaged homes and give them a way to express and deal with the pain. Children who struggle mightily with fitting in with A-holes who think they are better than poor kids turn to music for a way to express loneliness. No thanks to turds who think like you. Bite me. This is where your lack of heart has gone too far.

Spot on, hon! Agree with you 100% (I love it when we agree! So much better than agreeing not to! )

Tito, you're forgeting something - the point of teaching kids music, art - hell, reading, writing and mathematics - isn't to produce geniuses. It's to give children the foundations to be competant, healthy adults, able to make their way in the world. Not every child who learns to write is going to become an author, not every child who learns the basics of economics is going to become a millionaire, not every child who learns to play an instrument is going to become a rock star. But writing fan fic, or stories for their kids, or enough to put together an interesting post on the internet gives a lot of people satisfaction. Knowing how to do basic mathematics, how to work out a budget, makes a huge difference in people's lives. Being able to take some time to sit down, do a few sketches, play around with paint or pencils, it's something that people enjoy, even though they may only ever do it for themselves.

I learned to play the recorder, through my school, at age 6. I took flute lessons at 11 for 2 years, and cello for one year at 13. What did that give me? Well, it gave me the impetous to teach myself to read music at 7, to teach myself to learn tab and play the guitar at 21. I knew enough about how music work, about scales and chords, that from the age of 9, I could start picking out melodies on my step mother's piano. I don't know how to teach myself to play chords and anything more complex on a piano than simple one line melody, but I'd love to learn, and for that I'll need a teacher. I envy my friends who can sit down at the piano and just play an accompaniment to what we're singing. That isn't something I can easily work out how to do by myself, but with a teacher to show me the basics, I can expand on what I've learned.

The music lessons I did have as a child meant that I could build on the skills and knowledge I have to teach myself to play over a dozen instruments. I don't play any of them to a professional level, but it's something that gives me a great deal of pleasure and enjoyment. I have enough understanding of music theory that I can work out an acompaniment to pretty much anything I'm singing on the guitar, or one of several other stringed instruments I play, I can put together a harmony line to sing against someone else's melody, and I can understand why one thing works and something else doesn't. I write songs for myself to sing and play - maybe no one else will ever hear them, and many (most?) of them simply aren't strong enough to warrant subjecting anyone else to them, but I enjoy the process of being able to express how I'm feeling through music.

That's something I want my kids, when I have them, to have access to, to be able to enjoy and share with me and with their friends. Every child should have the opportunity to learn music, but it's not something we value enough to think of it as being essential, sadly.

[Arianddu]

First, what a good person. A well intended individual.

Having said that though, fuck music and arts. Jon Cain did NOT need music in the public schools. He's a natural. Did Neal need music in the classroom, I think not - the man hardly went to school.

1. Natural talent only takes you so far. Having a teacher to get you over the bumps and hurdles, to help you work it out, is what gives basic talent the jump to brilliance.

2. Jon talked about being grateful to his music teacher, because she gave him the direction to take his skill and enthusiasm, and gave him the support he needed to take his music further.

3. Neal's father was a frigging music teacher.

And inspiered Mother Father,Tito is a retard

Stevie-Woo, question for you - music is the basis of your professional life; think you could have acheived that without being taught by someone else as a kid?

[artist4perry]

First, what a good person. A well intended individual.

Having said that though, fuck music and arts. Jon Cain did NOT need music in the public schools. He's a natural. Did Neal need music in the classroom, I think not - the man hardly went to school.

1. Natural talent only takes you so far. Having a teacher to get you over the bumps and hurdles, to help you work it out, is what gives basic talent the jump to brilliance.

2. Jon talked about being grateful to his music teacher, because she gave him the direction to take his skill and enthusiasm, and gave him the support he needed to take his music further.

3. Neal's father was a frigging music teacher.

Ari to add to what you said, you can have all the natural abilities you want in the arts. But not the fine tuning. Artist have to learn about painting techniques, how to render shapes so they appear round and three diminsional, perspective, you learn how to use different media and find what you excel at. Musicians learn to read music, how to get timing right.

Beleive me I have sang most of my life, in church and in school, and when I took the college music course the school required me to take to teach Survey of Fine arts, I found out things that have improved my abilities to sing. I know I am not a professional singer, and I don't worry about that. I just know I want to sing the best that I can sing for me. I love to sing, though I lack the guts of GI, Nora, and SusieP on this board, I can sing all day at church and to my family, but to sing in public is hard for me now. But I know exactly what key to start a song, because I can read it for myself. I have learned to pick up a pitch by my father, who was a songleader. I learned to hear a pitch and repeat it exactly. He taught me some things, but to read the music for yourself.................that takes you to a higher place.

[Arianddu]

I know exactly what you mean, Ginger. I think you'd be very hard pressed to find more than a handful of professional musicians in any field who didn't have some kind of music training as a child and/or teenager. For the rest of us, it gives us the ability to do more than just sing along with the radio, fun as that is.

[artist4perry]

I know exactly what you mean, Ginger. I think you'd be very hard pressed to find more than a handful of professional musicians in any field who didn't have some kind of music training as a child and/or teenager. For the rest of us, it gives us the ability to do more than just sing along with the radio, fun as that is.

I find when I hit the higher notes it pisses off my cat Dixie. She bites you on the arm! LOL! Total entertainment around our house!

Music bound our family together. My father, a song leader, sung to me so much as a child. He taught me to hear a pitch, to repeat the pitch I heard. He had a pitch pipe, and one of my fondest memories was when he used to blow the pitch, then have me sing the note he blew. A fun game, and a bonding thing between us. Dad and mom would always encourage me to sing. My daughter sings as well. She went to state competitions with her voice. She loves to sing, we sang together as she grew up.......it was a bonding thing between her and I as well. My Mom and I would sing to 50's tunes on trips to California when I was a child. Sometimes if we travel together now we still do the same thing.

I love music. I always will, and I envy those with the skills to make such wonderful tunes as Jon has made in his life.

[Tito]

I don't care if you want to learn music but my thing is you should pay for it. Go take private music lessons or if it's offered in the schools it should be paid for seperately via an activity fee.

[Rockindeano]

I don't care if you want to learn music but my thing is you should pay for it. Go take private music lessons or if it's offered in the schools it should be paid for seperately via an activity fee.

You're absolutely warped, you cheap sonofabitch.

[Tito]

I don't care if you want to learn music but my thing is you should pay for it. Go take private music lessons or if it's offered in the schools it should be paid for seperately via an activity fee.

You're absolutely warped, you cheap sonofabitch.

Point of fact, a lot of the sports programs in most of the schools around here charge an activity fee. Not to mention they are supported by a lot of the parent organizations/booster clubs. Plus, if I'm not mistaken they do charge a small fee (no more than $3) to attend the football games. So, a lot of those sports are self funded or minimally supported by property taxes. Finally, the coaches are already employed by the school districts as teachers or other faculty. They get minimal pay/bonus for coaching. By funding music and arts, you are adding faculty solely to teach those classes. Even if it's just two teachers, that's a substantial sum of money when you take their salary and benefits. In a lot of cases it would be more than two teachers as well. Lets not also forget the fact, for most kids, music and arts classes are a slacker class. I liked them too because they were easy.

[artist4perry]

I don't care if you want to learn music but my thing is you should pay for it. Go take private music lessons or if it's offered in the schools it should be paid for seperately via an activity fee.

I am an Art teacher Tito. I became one because I never had one. Art teaches and supports math , history, science, literature, and all other aspects of learning. You wish to get rid of the arts because you see no sense in it. Some of the students see no sense of math. They theorize that if they don't see a need for it in their future, it must not be a needed subject. All forms of learning help us in our lives Tito.

Art teaches and supports the tenents of history, we use math all the time, and science............before there were cameras artists recorded animals who are not here today because they have became extinct. But because someone drew them, we now know what they look like. Artists make the buildings you live in, design the clothes on your backs, the packaging all of your food comes in, the appliances that hold that food, cook that food, and the plates that you eat your food on. Everything around you that you have, your car, your place of work, the machines we use were created and designed by an artist.

[Jana]

I don't care if you want to learn music but my thing is you should pay for it. Go take private music lessons or if it's offered in the schools it should be paid for seperately via an activity fee.

You're absolutely warped, you cheap sonofabitch.

+1

[Arianddu]

Point of fact, a lot of the sports programs in most of the schools around here charge an activity fee. Not to mention they are supported by a lot of the parent organizations/booster clubs. Plus, if I'm not mistaken they do charge a small fee (no more than $3) to attend the football games. So, a lot of those sports are self funded or minimally supported by property taxes. Finally, the coaches are already employed by the school districts as teachers or other faculty. They get minimal pay/bonus for coaching. By funding music and arts, you are adding faculty solely to teach those classes. Even if it's just two teachers, that's a substantial sum of money when you take their salary and benefits. In a lot of cases it would be more than two teachers as well. Lets not also forget the fact, for most kids, music and arts classes are a slacker class. I liked them too because they were easy.

So what else should be charged extra to learn? Languages? Should you have to pay extra if you want your child to learn a second language? Or what about history? Or geography? How about computing classes, because hey, everyone uses computers at home; why teach it in schools? Or media studies - that's just watching films and tv, right? Why bother with that class? I thought English was easy when I was in school, and got straight A's without even trying. So by your reckonning, that's a slacker class too.
The sports teams might be self funded, but I'm betting PE isn't.

[Arianddu]

Artists make the buildings you live in, design the clothes on your backs, the packaging all of your food comes in, the appliances that hold that food, cook that food, and the plates that you eat your food on. Everything around you that you have, your car, your place of work, the machines we use were created and designed by an artist.

BRAVO!!

[stevew2]

First, what a good person. A well intended individual.

Having said that though, fuck music and arts. Jon Cain did NOT need music in the public schools. He's a natural. Did Neal need music in the classroom, I think not - the man hardly went to school.

1. Natural talent only takes you so far. Having a teacher to get you over the bumps and hurdles, to help you work it out, is what gives basic talent the jump to brilliance.

2. Jon talked about being grateful to his music teacher, because she gave him the direction to take his skill and enthusiasm, and gave him the support he needed to take his music further.

3. Neal's father was a frigging music teacher.

And inspiered Mother Father,Tito is a retard

Stevie-Woo, question for you - music is the basis of your professional life; think you could have acheived that without being taught by someone else as a kid?

No, i did take private lessons, but only after I had class piano in first grade.Tito was problably on the girls wrestling team when he was a little bitch

[Sarah]

Point of fact, a lot of the sports programs in most of the schools around here charge an activity fee. Not to mention they are supported by a lot of the parent organizations/booster clubs. Plus, if I'm not mistaken they do charge a small fee (no more than $3) to attend the football games. So, a lot of those sports are self funded or minimally supported by property taxes. Finally, the coaches are already employed by the school districts as teachers or other faculty. They get minimal pay/bonus for coaching. By funding music and arts, you are adding faculty solely to teach those classes. Even if it's just two teachers, that's a substantial sum of money when you take their salary and benefits. In a lot of cases it would be more than two teachers as well. Lets not also forget the fact, for most kids, music and arts classes are a slacker class. I liked them too because they were easy.

But the kids still have to go to PE.

Sports are an extracurricular in addition to the sports they get "free" during school, in PE.

[Rockindeano]

The only point Tito is making clear to everyone is just how uncultured he is. To want to omit such activities he obviously doesn't enjoy, or couldn't master, is basically a form of prejudice. I find it hilarious he bashes on music in schools yet his hero Mr. Cain excelled and utilized the school service to his advantage.

In my opinion, his comments and arguments are made to incite and are completely ridiculous.

[Lula]

music is not just for music's sake, but for math as well. kids that learn to play music in school do better in math. plain and simple. didn't vote in the poll since neither option appealed to me .

[Michigan Girl]

He does have some very unique ideas and opinions,
to the point of being ridiculous sometimes!!
But, he stands true to his convictions and that is a very admirable trait
even if we don't agree w/him!!
I enjoy Tito's posts immensely ...they almost always make me laugh!!

[Don]

I don't care what he does as long as he doesn't do it until after he retires from his current profession.
This isn't a banana republic (with the exception of California). We don't need representatives missing key votes because they are too busy being singers, movie stars, etc.

[stevew2]

The only point Tito is making clear to everyone is just how uncultured he is. To want to omit such activities he obviously doesn't enjoy, or couldn't master, is basically a form of prejudice. I find it hilarious he bashes on music in schools yet his hero Mr. Cain excelled and utilized the school service to his advantage.

In my opinion, his comments and arguments are made to incite and are completely ridiculous.

Tito never mastered anything.He is a spectator.He likes to go to prowrestling events and sell candy bars.

[artist4perry]

music is not just for music's sake, but for math as well. kids that learn to play music in school do better in math. plain and simple. didn't vote in the poll since neither option appealed to me .

Very true. It has wonderful aspects all around. And makes a few less tone deaf car singers out there too!

I am glad he makes you laugh MG...........He just makes me go............HUH?????????????? Did I read that right??? And I read it again............ and it doesn't get better..................

Let's give him one thing..........he can get this thread to be quite lively!

[Tito]

To put music and arts on the same level (and importance) as math, science, reading, etc. is foolish.

Having said that, my main problem is the funding of the classes. I don't care what people do. Sure, if it was free, have all the music and arts in the school as you want. But nothing is free. Music and arts is a low priority for me in the education world. The easiest solution to this is school choice. Give parents school vouchers so they can decide what schools to send their kids. The ones that want music and art can send their kids to that school. The ones that feel it's not important can send their kid to the other school. The ones who want only a little of arts (once a week) can send their kids to that school. Again, big government, in this case the public education monopoly pits everyone against each other and forces everyone to do one thing. I know there are private schools, but for the most part, only the well off can send their kids to private schools. If people didn't have to pay outrageous property taxes (mostly to school districts) they could afford to send their kids to private schools as well. Especially if they had school vouchers.

[Don]

To put music and arts on the same level (and importance) as math, science, reading, etc. is foolish.

Having said that, my main problem is the funding of the classes. I don't care what people do. Sure, if it was free, have all the music and arts in the school as you want. But nothing is free. Music and arts is a low priority for me in the education world. The easiest solution to this is school choice. Give parents school vouchers so they can decide what schools to send their kids. The ones that want music and art can send their kids to that school. The ones that feel it's not important can send their kid to the other school. The ones who want only a little of arts (once a week) can send their kids to that school. Again, big government, in this case the public education monopoly pits everyone against each other and forces everyone to do one thing. I know there are private schools, but for the most part, only the well off can send their kids to private schools. If people didn't have to pay outrageous property taxes (mostly to school districts) they could afford to send their kids to private schools as well. Especially if they had school vouchers.

I agree.

[artist4perry]

To put music and arts on the same level (and importance) as math, science, reading, etc. is foolish.

Having said that, my main problem is the funding of the classes. I don't care what people do. Sure, if it was free, have all the music and arts in the school as you want. But nothing is free. Music and arts is a low priority for me in the education world. The easiest solution to this is school choice. Give parents school vouchers so they can decide what schools to send their kids. The ones that want music and art can send their kids to that school. The ones that feel it's not important can send their kid to the other school. The ones who want only a little of arts (once a week) can send their kids to that school. Again, big government, in this case the public education monopoly pits everyone against each other and forces everyone to do one thing. I know there are private schools, but for the most part, only the well off can send their kids to private schools. If people didn't have to pay outrageous property taxes (mostly to school districts) they could afford to send their kids to private schools as well. Especially if they had school vouchers.

Oh great! So only some of the students are so stupid they never know who painted the Mona Lisa! Only some of the students don't know how to mix the color green. That kinda stuff is good to know...... Only some of the students can properly measure, trust me, math does not cut it by itself............I spend hours explaining how to measure an inch!! Or only some of the students get an outlet for mom beating the absolute crap out of them. Or finding that they have a nitch because mom and dad do not see the sense of art or music.............so little Jon just doesn't learn how to play the piano properly, after all mom and dad think it is a total waiste of time and money. No Windy City breakdown for you Jon! Your going to be a doctor! Tito declairs it nonsense. I can afford property tax more than I can afford stupidity in the future generations.

[Michigan Girl]

To put music and arts on the same level (and importance) as math, science, reading, etc. is foolish.

Having said that, my main problem is the funding of the classes. I don't care what people do. Sure, if it was free, have all the music and arts in the school as you want. But nothing is free. Music and arts is a low priority for me in the education world. The easiest solution to this is school choice. Give parents school vouchers so they can decide what schools to send their kids. The ones that want music and art can send their kids to that school. The ones that feel it's not important can send their kid to the other school. The ones who want only a little of arts (once a week) can send their kids to that school. Again, big government, in this case the public education monopoly pits everyone against each other and forces everyone to do one thing. I know there are private schools, but for the most part, only the well off can send their kids to private schools. If people didn't have to pay outrageous property taxes (mostly to school districts) they could afford to send their kids to private schools as well. Especially if they had school vouchers.

Oh great! So only some of the students are so stupid they never know who painted the Mona Lisa! Only some of the students don't know how to mix the color green. That kinda stuff is good to know...... Only some of the students can properly measure, trust me, math does not cut it by itself............I spend hours explaining how to measure an inch!! Or only some of the students get an outlet for mom beating the absolute crap out of them. Or finding that they have a nitch because mom and dad do not see the sense of art or music.............so little Jon just doesn't learn how to play the piano properly, after all mom and dad think it is a total waiste of time and money. No Windy City breakdown for you Jon! Your going to be a doctor! Tito declairs it nonsense. I can afford property tax more than I can afford stupidity in the future generations.

LOL ...you need
to calm down, these spelling errors are not helping your cause!!

[artist4perry]

To put music and arts on the same level (and importance) as math, science, reading, etc. is foolish.

Having said that, my main problem is the funding of the classes. I don't care what people do. Sure, if it was free, have all the music and arts in the school as you want. But nothing is free. Music and arts is a low priority for me in the education world. The easiest solution to this is school choice. Give parents school vouchers so they can decide what schools to send their kids. The ones that want music and art can send their kids to that school. The ones that feel it's not important can send their kid to the other school. The ones who want only a little of arts (once a week) can send their kids to that school. Again, big government, in this case the public education monopoly pits everyone against each other and forces everyone to do one thing. I know there are private schools, but for the most part, only the well off can send their kids to private schools. If people didn't have to pay outrageous property taxes (mostly to school districts) they could afford to send their kids to private schools as well. Especially if they had school vouchers.

Oh great! So only some of the students are so stupid they never know who painted the Mona Lisa! Only some of the students don't know how to mix the color green. That kinda stuff is good to know...... Only some of the students can properly measure, trust me, math does not cut it by itself............I spend hours explaining how to measure an inch!! Or only some of the students get an outlet for mom beating the absolute crap out of them. Or finding that they have a nitch because mom and dad do not see the sense of art or music.............so little Jon just doesn't learn how to play the piano properly, after all mom and dad think it is a total waste of time and money. No Windy City breakdown for you Jon! Your going to be a doctor! Tito thinks it is nonsense. I can afford property tax more than I can afford stupidity in the future generations.

LOL ...you need
to calm down, these spelling errors are not helping your cause!!

MG I am on VACATION! LOL! Can I not just type and make mistakes just like the rest of you slobs do from time to time? Pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbtttttttttttttttt! I am not mad, just driving home a point. Maybe in Tito's head just a bit........but hey doesn't his hair lay down nicely now?

[Michigan Girl]

Ferr surrrr, we all make spelling errors, it's just the analogy between
the arts and smarts ...think of the cause!!!

[steveo777]

My wife watched this with me and said that JC is a good man.

[Don]

Herbie seemed to have as much spite for Cain as he did Perry, the exception being Herbie thought Perry was the smartest cookie in the bunch.