Could Augeri open for Journey?

[Rockindeano]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggWZUm1ETNo Sounds pretty damn good to me

Link doesn't work in the USA. Try another.

[Vladan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggWZUm1E ... ure=avmsc2 Sounds pretty damn good to me

Take two 2

[Rockindeano]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggWZUm1ETNo&feature=avmsc2 Sounds pretty damn good to me

Take two 2

Nope, blocked again.

[Vladan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggWZUm1ETNo&feature=avmsc2 Sounds pretty damn good to me

Take two 2

Nope, blocked again.

Wow, again. Youtube has finally turned over to the dark side. Why do they do that?. Alright, it was Born To Run 1982 live from The Boss.

[brywool]

Bruce sounds good????
Sounds terrible.

Of course, he always has...

You are definitely blinded with your hatred. To each their own I guess.

The best frontman ever, period.

Front man has NOTHING to do with singing abilities or his sound. The guy is a crap singer. Always was. He's in the Bob Dylan, Tom Petty, bag of singers (but I like Petty for some reason). Might be a good front man, but when you listen to his albums, you don't get that part of the package. All you hear is that crappy voice.
My "hatred" has nothing to do with it. I don't "hate" the guy. I just think he's a major shi**y vocalist and I've never understood why he's done so well. However, that being said, there is a lot to say for showmanship.

I know you're also a big Bryan Adams fan. Bryan's got a raspy voice, but his pitch is always great, both live and recorded. Bruce, not so much. Listen to the "wooh oohs" he does at the end of Glory Days. Absolutely terrible. Where was autotune when you needed it?

Springsteen is for whatever reason, 10 times the singer live than in studio. Even I am not fond of the studio albums...seriously, I never listen to them, only live boots and cd', which never disappoint.

As for showmanship and frontman stuff, I am convinced if you had two stages, one with Bruce and the other with say, Pineda, that a super majority of people would go to the Springsteen stage, despite the singing differences. That's what I said to all those myopic Pinoys two years ago, when they all said Pineda should have been the one to do the Super Bowl instead of Bruce. Pineda could learn a thing or three from Bruce.

Not sure why you feel the need to knock Pineda and his fans with regards to Bruce. Has nothing to do with anything. I'm sure Pineda could learn some from Bruce as a showman. Any aspiring front man could learn a lot from either of these cats. However, as far as VOCAL ABILITY, Pineda whipes the floor with Bruce. I'm more convinced that Bruce needs a voice coach in the worst way and I'm surprised he can hold up for tours. Like I said, "Front guy" has nothing to do with my dislike of Bruce. I'm SURE he's a brilliant front man. That's all I've ever heard. But even his fans, as you just demonstrated, can't stand up for his vocals on record. Okay, speaking of live and Youtube, pull up the "Born in the USA" video, which was recorded live. That last high note he does is absolutely horrible. Not even close to the mark. Yeah, he might've had a lot of "emotion" there, but he's completely off pitch. If Pineda sang like that, he'd be crucified. As far as "emotion", a LOT of Bruce's moves and emotion on stage have always seemed contrived to me. The Rosie (I have the name wrong I'm sure- I'm entitled, I'm not a fan) video that they used to show on Mtv all the time- he'd do these dopey looks as if he was totally surprised by what Clarence was doing, though they'd played each night on stage a bazillion times. The rap that he does in "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" ("Wha? Wha? It's Christmas Time, oh yeah....") just comes off as dopey and phoney to me.

Regarding the Super bowl, Bruce did the SB. That's fine. Journey could do it as well, but Pineda needs to blow away that last time they were there and make people forget that less-than-stellar performance. Also, with regards to the SB- When the Stones were on, they also sucked. Mick's a great front man too, but his vocals live leave a lot to be desired.

There are those who say Eddie Vedder's a great vocalist. I don't agree with them either for the same reasons I don't agree with Bruce fans.

[Art Vandelay]

Augeri has too much class to tour with the karaoke circuit....

Class? You do know Augeri pissed right in the face of rock n roll by lip syncing right? I don't get where you people all claim he is Mr Class. He is no better than the other scumbags in Journey. Get off the Augeri ass kissing. Remember, he didn't have to do what he did. He could have walked away, but chose to try to deceive the very fans who paid his very nice salary. If Augeri truly had class, he never would have made a mokery of the music.

Deano - would it be fair to assume that Augeri (and Deen, being the two newest members) were at the lower end of the decision-making totem pole, and that whether he wanted to lip or not, he felt an obligation to do so in order to keep his job? Moot point, I know, and we all know the end result. I'm asking this honestly - not defending Augeri here, just playing devil's advocate.

[Rockindeano]

Augeri has too much class to tour with the karaoke circuit....

Class? You do know Augeri pissed right in the face of rock n roll by lip syncing right? I don't get where you people all claim he is Mr Class. He is no better than the other scumbags in Journey. Get off the Augeri ass kissing. Remember, he didn't have to do what he did. He could have walked away, but chose to try to deceive the very fans who paid his very nice salary. If Augeri truly had class, he never would have made a mokery of the music.

Deano - would it be fair to assume that Augeri (and Deen, being the two newest members) were at the lower end of the decision-making totem pole, and that whether he wanted to lip or not, he felt an obligation to do so in order to keep his job? Moot point, I know, and we all know the end result. I'm asking this honestly - not defending Augeri here, just playing devil's advocate.

What's fair to assume, is that it doesn't matter what the pecking order was. Augeri is an adult, yes? He could have said no. Azoff is a gangster to be sure, but I doubt he had a gun pointed to Steve's dome. Steve should have been honest before the tour with Lippard and they should never have went out with them. Let me ask you this. If Schon broke his hand, would they pipe in his guitar work and have him just fake play on stage? I didn't think so. Look, they did something no real rock band does, and they got caught. The point is it could have been prevented, but these guys just don't care about ethics, nor are they loyal to the very fans who pay their salaries. Don't be fooled by Cain's legacy this and legacy that bullshit speech. They simply pissed on music, and it's obvious they, nor many fans here care, and IMO, that's sad. Yet, everytime Britney is mentioned, these same fans always claim, "no talent." She is no different than what Journey did. As a matter of fact, it was Britney who Azoff cited as "getting away with it so we can too." It was his idea as much if not more than nyone else's.

[RedWingFan]

Bruce sounds good????
Sounds terrible.

Of course, he always has...

You are definitely blinded with your hatred. To each their own I guess.

The best frontman ever, period.

You have got to be completely stoned!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te4E5bePSVo
There will never be another.

[Art Vandelay]

Augeri has too much class to tour with the karaoke circuit....

Class? You do know Augeri pissed right in the face of rock n roll by lip syncing right? I don't get where you people all claim he is Mr Class. He is no better than the other scumbags in Journey. Get off the Augeri ass kissing. Remember, he didn't have to do what he did. He could have walked away, but chose to try to deceive the very fans who paid his very nice salary. If Augeri truly had class, he never would have made a mokery of the music.

Deano - would it be fair to assume that Augeri (and Deen, being the two newest members) were at the lower end of the decision-making totem pole, and that whether he wanted to lip or not, he felt an obligation to do so in order to keep his job? Moot point, I know, and we all know the end result. I'm asking this honestly - not defending Augeri here, just playing devil's advocate.

What's fair to assume, is that it doesn't matter what the pecking order was. Augeri is an adult, yes? He could have said no. Azoff is a gangster to be sure, but I doubt he had a gun pointed to Steve's dome. Steve should have been honest before the tour with Lippard and they should never have went out with them. Let me ask you this. If Schon broke his hand, would they pipe in his guitar work and have him just fake play on stage? I didn't think so. Look, they did something no real rock band does, and they got caught. The point is it could have been prevented, but these guys just don't care about ethics, nor are they loyal to the very fans who pay their salaries. Don't be fooled by Cain's legacy this and legacy that bullshit speech. They simply pissed on music, and it's obvious they, nor many fans here care, and IMO, that's sad. Yet, everytime Britney is mentioned, these same fans always claim, "no talent." She is no different than what Journey did. As a matter of fact, it was Britney who Azoff cited as "getting away with it so we can too." It was his idea as much if not more than nyone else's.

Yes, their approach to the situation was very sad. Your comparison to Neal breaking his hand cracked me up. But I understand where you're coming from with it. Thanks for the response!

[brywool]

Bruce sounds good????
Sounds terrible.

Of course, he always has...

You are definitely blinded with your hatred. To each their own I guess.

The best frontman ever, period.

You have got to be completely stoned!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te4E5bePSVo
There will never be another.

Freddie was a great front guy. Live, he had major pitch issues.

[Rockindeano]

Freddie was good, but not even close to what Springsteen brings to a show. Even the haters admire the guys showmanship. What's that tell you? If the guy can't sing, yet still collects tons of accolades as a lead man live, there must be some truth to the tale.

[brywool]

Regarding the lipping stuff- I don't think it was cool. But I also keep it in perspective. There was a lot of money on the table. The guys probably thought it wouldn't last as long as it did. I highly doubt that they said "let's do the entire tour with Augeri miming". It was probably "Crap, we're booked, we need to get through just a few shows, let's do it" but his voice just didn't bounce back. The show must go on one way or the other. In retrospect, they probably should've canceled. However, that meant their crews, the bands, etc. wouldn't get paid. They'd also be in trouble for canceling the tour and would be open to lawsuits from promoters. Imagine all that on one guy. I can see why he did it.

It's in the past. It was a mistake. There's no reason to keep hitting the band with the same stick, is there? It already pretty much ruined Augeri's career, so I'm not sure what else needs to happen before this is left in the past.

[Don]

I've never been on the Mercury wagon. Singing opera is all well and good but when it came to rock and roll, I just never thought he had the same power live as what the recordings sounded like.

[brywool]

I've never been on the Mercury wagon. Singing opera is all well and good but when it came to rock and roll, I just never thought he had the same power live as what the recordings sounded like.

He didn't. Live, he ducked a ton of his hi notes. Many that aren't that high. On record, he was brilliant. As a front guy, he was great. As a live singer though, he had definite problems. Apparently, many singers do...
including the guy in your signature. His Live Aid performance was one of the worst performances by a lead vocalist I ever saw. I felt super sorry for him that day.

[Don]

The lipping is the past and that's fine. However, if the band is ever nominated the R&R HOF, it will be brought up (and should). That said, the band will go in for the work accomplished 20 years prior so the deceit shouldn't be a major factor in the decision to include them but it shouldn't be swept under the rug either when it comes time review their career as a whole.

[Don]

I've never been on the Mercury wagon. Singing opera is all well and good but when it came to rock and roll, I just never thought he had the same power live as what the recordings sounded like.

He didn't. Live, he ducked a ton of his hi notes. Many that aren't that high. On record, he was brilliant. As a front guy, he was great. As a live singer though, he had definite problems. Apparently, many singers do...
including the guy in your signature. His Live Aid performance was one of the worst performances by a lead vocalist I ever saw. I felt super sorry for him that day.

Plant knows that and that's why Zep didn't allow their performance to be included on the DVD that came out a few years ago. He sucked that day and admitted as much.

[brywool]

The lipping is the past and that's fine. However, if the band is ever nominated the R&R HOF, it will be brought up (and should). That said, the band will go in for the work accomplished 20 years prior so the deceit shouldn't be a major factor in the decision to include them but it shouldn't be swept under the rug either when it comes time review their career as a whole.

Dude, the RRHOF is a Jann Wenner deal. Journey (and Styx) will NEVER get in. They couldn't get into the magazine for that matter. They're too busy inducting crap like REM and Blondie.

[Rockindeano]

Regarding the lipping stuff- I don't think it was cool. But I also keep it in perspective. There was a lot of money on the table. The guys probably thought it wouldn't last as long as it did. I highly doubt that they said "let's do the entire tour with Augeri miming". It was probably "Crap, we're booked, we need to get through just a few shows, let's do it" but his voice just didn't bounce back. The show must go on one way or the other. In retrospect, they probably should've canceled. However, that meant their crews, the bands, etc. wouldn't get paid. They'd also be in trouble for canceling the tour and would be libel. Imagine all that on one guy. I can see why he did it.

It's in the past. It was a mistake. There's no reason to keep hitting the band with the same stick, is there? It already pretty much ruined Augeri's career, so I'm not sure what else needs to happen before this is left in the past.

A few points.

1- Augeri had been miming off and on for 2-3 years prior to the Lippard tour. Not every song, every show, but he was definitely miming. The signs were there, so they knew, when they booked the Lippard tour, that his voice was an issue. To prove this point, it was only after 5 or so shows into the tour, they went to tape. So this just wasn't some impulsive thing that happened. It wasn't as if all of a sudden, he lost his voice. They had the taped vocal cd ready to go instantly. They knew it would come to this. My point is they should have never booked that tour. They fell for the money and hoped no one would find out.

2- As for ruining Augeri's career, yeah, it did. I was unfairly harsh on the guy when it all went down. I was so blinded by the band being so cool to me and granting me access and all that shit. In retrospect, they all were guilty, Azoff included(he was the idea man behind this), and all of their careers should have taken a hit. It just smacks in the face of musical integrity doesn't it? I guarantee you if it wasn't Journey, and the members of this board didn't like the band in question who lipped, they would be all over them. The fact that it was Journey, they are granted forgiveness and a blind eye to their sins. This doesn't sit well with me at all. It just sickens me that you can cheat the fans, cheat music, and still get paid, and oh yeah, be forgiven like it was no big deal. I will never get that.

[Don]

The lipping is the past and that's fine. However, if the band is ever nominated the R&R HOF, it will be brought up (and should). That said, the band will go in for the work accomplished 20 years prior so the deceit shouldn't be a major factor in the decision to include them but it shouldn't be swept under the rug either when it comes time review their career as a whole.

Dude, the RRHOF is a Jann Wenner deal. Journey (and Styx) will NEVER get in. They couldn't get into the magazine for that matter. They're too busy inducting crap like REM and Blondie.

Wenner won't be there forever and I don't see the band being nominated while they are still touring. Both things will come to pass though and I see them getting a nod somewhere down the road.
Personally, I think a Grammy award would be more rewarding as an artist. Being inducted into the Hall Of Pop doesn't quite carry the luster it once did before becoming so diluted with lesser acts.

[brywool]

Regarding the lipping stuff- I don't think it was cool. But I also keep it in perspective. There was a lot of money on the table. The guys probably thought it wouldn't last as long as it did. I highly doubt that they said "let's do the entire tour with Augeri miming". It was probably "Crap, we're booked, we need to get through just a few shows, let's do it" but his voice just didn't bounce back. The show must go on one way or the other. In retrospect, they probably should've canceled. However, that meant their crews, the bands, etc. wouldn't get paid. They'd also be in trouble for canceling the tour and would be libel. Imagine all that on one guy. I can see why he did it.

It's in the past. It was a mistake. There's no reason to keep hitting the band with the same stick, is there? It already pretty much ruined Augeri's career, so I'm not sure what else needs to happen before this is left in the past.

A few points.

1- Augeri had been miming off and on for 2-3 years prior to the Lippard tour. Not every song, every show, but he was definitely miming. The signs were there, so they knew, when they booked the Lippard tour, that his voice was an issue. To prove this point, it was only after 5 or so shows into the tour, they went to tape. So this just wasn't some impulsive thing that happened. It wasn't as if all of a sudden, he lost his voice. They had the taped vocal cd ready to go instantly. They knew it would come to this. My point is they should have never booked that tour. They fell for the money and hoped no one would find out.

2- As for ruining Augeri's career, yeah, it did. I was unfairly harsh on the guy when it all went down. I was so blinded by the band being so cool to me and granting me access and all that shit. In retrospect, they all were guilty, Azoff included(he was the idea man behind this), and all of their careers should have taken a hit. It just smacks in the face of musical integrity doesn't it? I guarantee you if it wasn't Journey, and the members of this board didn't like the band in question who lipped, they would be all over them. The fact that it was Journey, they are granted forgiveness and a blind eye to their sins. This doesn't sit well with me at all. It just sickens me that you can cheat the fans, cheat music, and still get paid, and oh yeah, be forgiven like it was no big deal. I will never get that.

Deano- I DO agree with you, believe it or not. But I do think that they were stuck. They should've done this, they should've done that. Hindsight is 20/20. I just finished Sterling's Styx book and apparently, Azoff is one step away from Satan. I'm sure there was a lot of pressure there too.
If it was The Beatles, I'd be bummed as well, but it was an incident that's over. Careers were ruined. Changes were made. The guy became unemployed and from what I've seen out there of live clips, he's still having issues. The road is really tough on some voices and not on others. Trust me, I've chased the voice longevity issue since I was a kid and I'm nearly 48. It's an extremely tough nut to crack. I guess I just sympathize with Augeri. I don't condone it, but I sympathize. Schon and Co. felt they had to do something and it was the wrong choice and it was SO blatant... I mean the guy with the Google post "Journey Weirdness" saw the whole thing going down. They didn't seem to make an attempt to hide it much.
Did you check that Celine Dion clip I posted? Pretty damning evidence there from someone who is supposed to be a vocal "legend".

[brywool]

...Being inducted into the Hall Of Pop doesn't quite carry the luster it once did before becoming so diluted with lesser acts.

EXACTLY

[Don]

Regarding the lipping stuff- I don't think it was cool. But I also keep it in perspective. There was a lot of money on the table. The guys probably thought it wouldn't last as long as it did. I highly doubt that they said "let's do the entire tour with Augeri miming". It was probably "Crap, we're booked, we need to get through just a few shows, let's do it" but his voice just didn't bounce back. The show must go on one way or the other. In retrospect, they probably should've canceled. However, that meant their crews, the bands, etc. wouldn't get paid. They'd also be in trouble for canceling the tour and would be libel. Imagine all that on one guy. I can see why he did it.

It's in the past. It was a mistake. There's no reason to keep hitting the band with the same stick, is there? It already pretty much ruined Augeri's career, so I'm not sure what else needs to happen before this is left in the past.

A few points.

1- Augeri had been miming off and on for 2-3 years prior to the Lippard tour. Not every song, every show, but he was definitely miming. The signs were there, so they knew, when they booked the Lippard tour, that his voice was an issue. To prove this point, it was only after 5 or so shows into the tour, they went to tape. So this just wasn't some impulsive thing that happened. It wasn't as if all of a sudden, he lost his voice. They had the taped vocal cd ready to go instantly. They knew it would come to this. My point is they should have never booked that tour. They fell for the money and hoped no one would find out.

2- As for ruining Augeri's career, yeah, it did. I was unfairly harsh on the guy when it all went down. I was so blinded by the band being so cool to me and granting me access and all that shit. In retrospect, they all were guilty, Azoff included(he was the idea man behind this), and all of their careers should have taken a hit. It just smacks in the face of musical integrity doesn't it? I guarantee you if it wasn't Journey, and the members of this board didn't like the band in question who lipped, they would be all over them. The fact that it was Journey, they are granted forgiveness and a blind eye to their sins. This doesn't sit well with me at all. It just sickens me that you can cheat the fans, cheat music, and still get paid, and oh yeah, be forgiven like it was no big deal. I will never get that.

Deano- I DO agree with you, believe it or not. But I do think that they were stuck. They should've done this, they should've done that. Hindsight is 20/20. I just finished Sterling's Styx book and apparently, Azoff is one step away from Satan. I'm sure there was a lot of pressure there too.
If it was The Beatles, I'd be bummed as well, but it was an incident that's over. Careers were ruined. Changes were made. The guy became unemployed and from what I've seen out there of live clips, he's still having issues. The road is really tough on some voices and not on others. Trust me, I've chased the voice longevity issue since I was a kid and I'm nearly 48. It's an extremely tough nut to crack. I guess I just sympathize with Augeri. I don't condone it, but I sympathize. Schon and Co. felt they had to do something and it was the wrong choice and it was SO blatant... I mean the guy with the Google post "Journey Weirdness" saw the whole thing going down. They didn't seem to make an attempt to hide it much.
Did you check that Celine Dion clip I posted? Pretty damning evidence there from someone who is supposed to be a vocal "legend".

Ahhh, the infamous "guy with the blue cap."

[slucero]

Pretty good read..

Svante Pettersson
12 June 2006, 00:15

I am just back from Sweden Rock Festival, one of Europe's biggest hard rock festivals. At the festival, I was working for Swedish Radio as a producer for some of the live recordings done for the radio. Normally, I am a live sound engineer but once a year, I tag along with my old friends at Swedish Radio to have some fun on this great festival.

The biggest topic of discussion among our crew during the festival was without doubt the Journey show. Things started off weird in the afternoon when we realised that not only had they brought their producer and studio engineer Kevin Elson along to mix the show, he had also set up his FOH world at the very back of the house, backstage! He was standing behind our recording truck with his stuff, listening to the mix through two stage wedges standing on top of his console.

We were recording the show for the radio and the SRF dvd but beside our 48 track Pro Tools recording, we were told by Elson numerous times that we also needed to record his mix that went to the PA. Fine, an extra stand alone CD recorder was brought in. I watched the show from out front and had a great time. The band sounded excellent. I decided to watch the rest of the show from the recording truck. Good sound and tv monitors with a feed from the big screen out front. Even better than watching in your living room. :^)

I went backstage and on the way, I checked out Kevin Elson in action at the same time. When I got into the truck, our engineers was making funny faces and
saying things like, "poor guy!" Lead singer Steve Augeri could not sing at all! No, it's not the old rethoric of calling a singer with a bad day someone who "can't sing". Steve Augeri was constantly out of tune and when he tried to reach the high parts, his voice just died in a sad croak. But didn't it sound good in the PA out front? I went out to check again. Yes, the vocals sounded terrific. Was I going insane? I went back into the bus and the engineers started to question my
sanity too as nothing could be done out front to fix this disaster. The main project manager for our business at the festival showed up and was as surprised and puzzled as I was when he heard what was coming down that vocal line to the truck.

After a lot of running back and forth and scratching of heads, one of the recording engineers plugged in a pair of headphones into the CD recorder that was recording Elson's house mix. In that mix, the vocals were perfect. With one headphone on and the other listening to our feed in the bus it was obvious that something fishy was going on. We looked at our surveillance camera on stage and noticed a guy sitting a bit out of place to the left of the drum tech. I went up on stage to have a look and there was a guy with two digital multitrack recorders, apparently sending a prerecorded, correct vocal to the house mix but not to our bus. There were also some prerecorded synth pads and backing vocals but we got those to the bus. This raised so many questions and things running in our heads:

* This was not a temporary solution to help a guy having a bad day on tour. You don't bring that rack with recorders and one extra guy on tour to have a backup in case the singer gets a cold. Ok, the rack and the operatot could have been flown in but wouldn't it have been easier to just cancel the show if the guy was sick?

* Another thing suggesting this was not just a guy with a bad throat was that in our feed, the "real" live vocal line, Mr. Augeri was not holding back like he probably should have done if he had a bad throat. He was launching head first into the performance screaming his lungs off. If he has a throat problem, it will only get worse by this behaviour.

* Neal Schon of Journey has said in interviews that Augeri had throat problems on the last tour, forcing them to use the drummer to sing lead vocals on some songs. On the last album, Augeri sings half the songs and the other members sing the rest. "Because it was fun" according to interviews with band members. Yeah, maybe so but maybe also to help a singer who can't sing? * If the singer really is this bad, why not just kick him out?

* The other band members put on a stellar show. How do they feel on the bus every night knowing they have to substitute their singer with a tape? How fun can that be?

* How could Kevin Elson think that our recording engineers wouldn't notice anything? Wouldn't it have been easier to feed the prerecorded vocals to our bus too, or just deny us to record the band. We get to record many bands but there are those that refuse too, without giving any particular reasons. The first time one of our engineers went out to talk to Elson during the show, Elson had the fixed vocals in his monitors but he told our guy that "we probably have to take this home and fix the vocals", as if Augeri had a bad day. Why lie a colleague right in the face like that? Later, the cd from the FOH mix was approved for broadcast the next day. No fixing needed because it was already fixed.

I don't have any strong feelings against spicing up a live show with some fatter backing vocals or backup things that makes the show better but substituting the lead vocals? Reverse karaoke? I'm a big Journey fan and I don't get sad or angry, just very confused.

/Svante

[Rockindeano]

Sluce, where you been? This Svante letter has been around for three years! This is the letter that finally validated my claims. This was the death nail.

[steveo777]

Sluce, where you been? This Svante letter has been around for three years! This is the letter that finally validated my claims. This was the death nail.

I don't get it. You said "death nail". What died?
They got a new singer and moved on, pretty much with impunity, unless you consider losing a small handful of fans like yourself much of a penalty.
Franky, I just don't see that stale issue holding them back.

[Rockindeano]

Sluce, where you been? This Svante letter has been around for three years! This is the letter that finally validated my claims. This was the death nail.

I don't get it. You said "death nail". What died?
They got a new singer and moved on, pretty much with impunity, unless you consider losing a small handful of fans like yourself much of a penalty.
Franky, I just don't see that stale issue holding them back.

Well for one, Augeri 'died.'

Had this made the greater media, there would have been damage. Fortunately for them, it didn't. They weren't important enough to have mattered. Had this been U2, what do you think would have happened to them, Steve? That's right, they would be over with, completely, and laughed out of music, and rightfully so.

Again, it just utterly amazes me that you guys can overlook this and still fawn over them. But hey whatever, to each it's own.

I do like how you fans absolutely ball lick them to no end when things go well, like last year, but when things don't go so well, it's no big deal, shit happens. You can't have it both ways.

[steveo777]

Sluce, where you been? This Svante letter has been around for three years! This is the letter that finally validated my claims. This was the death nail.

I don't get it. You said "death nail". What died?
They got a new singer and moved on, pretty much with impunity, unless you consider losing a small handful of fans like yourself much of a penalty.
Franky, I just don't see that stale issue holding them back.

Well for one, Augeri 'died.'

Had this made the greater media, there would have been damage. Fortunately for them, it didn't. They weren't important enough to have mattered. Had this been U2, what do you think would have happened to them, Steve? That's right, they would be over with, completely, and laughed out of music, and rightfully so.

Again, it just utterly amazes me that you guys can overlook this and still fawn over them. But hey whatever, to each it's own.

Maybe I just won't allow myself to have resentment and have to stop enjoying one of my top favorite bands of all time.
I wasn't pleased with the lipping, but I also got over it.

[Art Vandelay]

Sluce, where you been? This Svante letter has been around for three years! This is the letter that finally validated my claims. This was the death nail.

I don't get it. You said "death nail". What died?
They got a new singer and moved on, pretty much with impunity, unless you consider losing a small handful of fans like yourself much of a penalty.
Franky, I just don't see that stale issue holding them back.

The Augeri era died. Before any of this happened, I don't believe they had any intentions of getting rid of him. Also, they were at least trying different recording avenues with Augeri, regardless of how well they sold (and yes, I'm aware that most of their live shows were made up of the dirty dozen). Now we're in the Pineda era where the dirty dozen is not only embraced, it's re-recorded.

No thanks.

[slucero]

Sluce, where you been? This Svante letter has been around for three years! This is the letter that finally validated my claims. This was the death nail.

I know.. I just thought peeps would like to read it for context...

[Saint John]

Again, it just utterly amazes me that you guys can overlook this and still fawn over them. But hey whatever, to each it's own. I do like how you fans absolutely ball lick them to no end when things go well, like last year, but when things don't go so well, it's no big deal, shit happens. You can't have it both ways.

I guess we were just never offered backstage passes. I just don't know how you can possibly not see that you were the biggest "ball licker" of them all, man. You were tipped off about the lipping and took the ball and ran. What you thought was the 21st century Zapruder film turned out to be about as big as a Toy Story 3 bootleg and got very little, if any, press and no one outside of perhaps 2 or 3 message boards gave a shit. However, they were forced to shift gears, changed singers and you promptly ripped Soto as being a terrible singer and not the right person for the job. But it only took him reaching out to you and a meeting over a beer for you to do an immediate 180. From that moment on you slowly started backtracking on the Journey hate and the disclaimers came at about a daily pace ... "Even though these guys made a huge mistake ... they're ok people ... even the Frig." You saw your path.

You then totally immersed yourself and ran with these "soul-less bastards that should rot in hell" from city to city, state to state and coast to coast. The ride was good for you ... you were able to have access a lot of people dream about but, in the end, you blew it. And, now, here you stand accusing fans of being "ball lickers" for merely still going to shows and posting positive views, but that is absolutely dwarfed in the "ball licking" department by your campaign to rip them down musically and personally, then switching sides for access, tickets and message board street cred, and then reverting (again) when they pulled the carpet out from under you. I'm not sure if you know this or not, but they totally outsmarted you. They lured you in, shut you up, made you sell your soul and what you believed to be right by dangling access, tickets and a few stories, and then tossed you off of the bus as they drove into the sunset. You can reminisce and try to change history all you want, but it'll always be Journey 1 and Dean 0. You, sir, have no right to call anyone a "ball licker."