How Did Schon Miss This Guy?

[Ligzig]

We can only speculate now but, given he's in his 60's, my guess is sitting back having a cold one while having the Journey boys work for him.

Perry did it.

My bet it is Arnel's choice, or lack of capability. I don't think anyone would question Perry being a half step for even a full step down. Let's face it, he's Steve Fucking Perry. However, a half step down for a replacement singer? Are you kidding me, really? There's a SHITLOAD of people that can sing those songs in the original key. I mean shit, let's get Scott Stapp to sing this crap. I think I understand quite well and Journey are plonkers detuning for a replacement. If you're impressed with a half step down replacement that's your prerogative. I'm just not impressed with something less than the original. And there are folks out there that can do it.

maybe...but nobody who has ever done full touring on this catalog for 10 years in original key has ever survived it without it shredding the voice. You can do it at 30, but at 40+ years of age, it takes more time for the voice to recover. Without that time, the voice goes downhill.

Most people other than the diehards either a) can't tell the difference...or b) couldn't care less, so why would you NOT go down one-half step? If it buys your singer a few extra years, why would you not go down? If they had done that from the beginning, Augeri probably wouldn't have blown out his voice. Perry might not have either.

Where is Perry now?

And how long did Perry do it before he started tuning down on FTLOSM tours and quitting for good? 10, 11 years at most?

Perry was human too, but the one thing that gave him an advantage, was that he was using his natural singing voice and in his natural range while he was still young. He also needed to make his own personal adjustments for RoR tour because his voice had changed, remember? No, perry in his 60's can't do that, but we're going with the active years. Compare that to the age of his replacements attempting to sing Perry and adjust their own voices, to his from all of those years in the 80's when Perrys voice was changing. Perry himself couldn't keep up with his old hits. Perry lasted a little bit longer, but not enough to brag.

Just for comparison, Arnel has been singing since he was 15, for hours upon hours in smokey bars. He wasn't singing as a high tenor all of those years, but I'm certain he had a few of those in his catalog. His voice is in amazing shape when you consider that he's now, in his 40's, attempting to carry the Journey torch, which has one of the most demanding vocals of any band. He has even gotten better in some cases, but I don't believe it was his choice to lower the key, because as others have pointed out, he sings in regular key when he's without Journey.

Cut him a little slack, he might not be your favorite, since it's all subjective anyway, but don't diss his singing talents, diss his shitty diction, since that IS an issue.

[steveo777]

I don't care who they are, nobody older than 35 is going to sing the Journey catalog night after night in original key and retain their voice. Journey singers over that age would have a shelf life of about 2 years and Journey can't keep changing lead singers at this point in their careers. Perry left of his own accord, quit / fired, whatever you choose to believe.....before vocal deterioration would have been the reason for his demise. He was in his mid 30's in 1986 and sounded ok on TBF in 1995, but you could detect that age had taken it's toll, at 47, 4 years older than Pineda, who just had a birthday last week. How can you fault a singer for normal age related voice deterioration? You can't, except when maybe they keep singing and become an embarrassment to their former self, when they should have retired long ago. Not talking about anyone in particular on that one. Maybe Perry wants to stay retired and not become that embarrassment, being remembered for how fantastic he was. That's ok with me and I completely understand.

But, back to Pineda...... I believe the band learned their lesson the hard way when Steve Augeri lost his voice. I'm sure it hit hard and it hurt all of the band members. With the concert schedule firmly in place, the situation + management caused the band to do something they have regretted. I'm sure when they went back to the drawing board and hired Arnel, they probably said to themselves NEVER AGAIN! So, the measures they have taken to protect Arnel's voice are completely understandable, albeit, hard to accept, by some. I don't believe the tuning down has anything to do with Arnel's capability.

Here is a video he did on Filipino TV with Charice well after last year's tour. At about the 2:50 mark, he will begin singing another duet with Charice and thoughout the song it is apparent that he has plenty of vocal range. Enjoy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnF34eN1k0o

[kgdjpubs]

I don't care who they are, nobody older than 35 is going to sing the Journey catalog night after night in original key and retain their voice. Journey singers over that age would have a shelf life of about 2 years and Journey can't keep changing lead singers at this point in their careers. Perry left of his own accord, quit / fired, whatever you choose to believe.....before vocal deterioration would have been the reason for his demise. He was in his mid 30's in 1986 and sounded ok on TBF in 1995, but you could detect that age had taken it's toll, at 47, 4 years older than Pineda, who just had a birthday last week. How can you fault a singer for normal age related voice deterioration? You can't, except when maybe they keep singing and become an embarrassment to their former self, when they should have retired long ago. Not talking about anyone in particular on that one. Maybe Perry wants to stay retired and not become that embarrassment, being remembered for how fantastic he was. That's ok with me and I completely understand.

all things being equal for Perry, I've heard some of the good FTLOSM shows and he sounded better than he did on the album, so I'm not totally sure studio-era Perry after the Escape record is the best way to judge his voice (listen to the difference betw the Frontiers record and the Japan Frontiers video). That said, you could hear major changes by the ROR tour (some intentional due to overhaul of singing/phrasing, a lot natural). You heard another major difference on the FTLOSM tour. He still sounded very good, but a bit different. Ironically, I still wonder if NOT singing for many years hurt him more than anything else--especially the post-ROR period.

Be it natural factors (age, etc), intentional (singing style changes), or tour-related (deterioration of voice for whatever reason), I've NEVER heard a professional singer's voice change as fast as Perry's did from 1981 to 1986. Very challenging catalog, but some others are just as bad. A lot of touring, but others did the same or more.

[steveo777]

I saw him in 1995 in Spokane, Wa. during his FTLOSM tour. I thought he sounded good, but not as good as on ROR. I draw a line between ROR and TBF. That's where I hear the most , uh, err, vocal maturity happening.

[kgdjpubs]

I saw him in 1995 in Spokane, Wa. during his FTLOSM tour. I thought he sounded good, but not as good as on ROR. I draw a line between ROR and TBF. That's where I hear the most , uh, err, vocal maturity happening.

for lack of a better word, FTLOSM was all over the place. I've heard some nights where he sounded VERY good, some ok, some rough, and one horrid show that should have been cancelled. Most were good once he got a song or two in and warmed up, but there was a fair amount of variation.

I wonder how much of the ROR to TBF change was age-related versus simply out-of-practice and lack of stamina. The voice is a muscle just like any other, and if you don't exercise it (ie concerts), you can "lose" a lot.

[ltbob]

Good band, good singer, for a bar band.

[ltbob]

just watched some you tube with S.P., all these guys are good , but they just aint the real deal in any way. Steve P. is the singer of Journey, they are fill in.

[ttango1]

Thanks and I appreciate the support. It's the music that I'm focused on. My expectations do not change regardless of a person's race, nationality, etc. The facts are the facts with Arnel.

It's a nice reply IF Aaron is a racist ...?!?! I'm confused, is he? ...does Ttango know something we don't?!?!
If not ...the reply is mostly crap because that's what he's insinuating!! That's what I said!!!

Who cares if he's Filipino or Filipino American, if diction issues are a problem for someone it doesn't matter what race/nationality the singer is!!

Hey, I asked the questions and I pointed out that I didn't think you were racist. My POV was to show that it wasn't his decision to detune. And having said that, I ask you,"Have you yourself heard AP sing the songs in the original key?" If you have, then you would have NOT intimated that he could not, because you know that he indeed could sing it, note for note, in the original key, LIVE. You said he wasn't capable, that it was his doing. Then you said that there are a bunch of singers who could sing in the original key. So while Jeremey continues to baffle us with his longevity, everyone else who has ever sung lead for Journey, has bowed out to the catalog. Journey should have done the detune when Augeri was there, but they didn't, so perhaps they've learned from their past?

Again...I never said you were racist. RECOGNIZE!

[Aaron]

I appreciate you're not pointing to racism, I'm not that way at all! It may or may not have been Arnel's decision to detune. However, the facts are the only reason to detune the music is for the singer. Whether it be for longevity or for capability, the issue is the only reason to detune is for the singer. I have heard Arnel sing in the original key live in Indy a couple of years back, front row center. He sang the songs reasonably well in the original key. The question is longevity I reckon. Perry was the KING and was able to run it for `10 years. Can Perry do it today, probably not. Was he the key element that took Journey to stardom, absolutely. The question is whether to detune for a replacement, absolutely not. Detuning for the original is expected IMHO based on age and the singer being the original/writer. A replacement is a replacement and should be able hit the original keys, period. Jeremey is an excellent example, Hugo is another, and there are others seen on this board that can do it. Don't you think there are 100, maybe 1000, maybe 10,000 folks out there that can do the exact same thing that we haven't' been exposed to yet? The guy from Escape (Jason, he's great) is another example. All I'm saying is that if you have a replacement singer, they should do the songs in the original key. The songs lose too much of their "bright, happy" message when detuned. I mean hell, let Creed play the shite a full step down and see what you think. It only takes a half step down (drop D) to from happy to devil music. A full step down goes into negative mode in my opinion. Journey's message has been happy feel good music since I can remember. When running a half step down it goes into the realm of negative tone music which goes against their MO. Hopefully they will sort this in the near future. In the mean time, I'll go see Hugo or Jeremey singing the positive songs in the positive, original key.

I appreciate your view,

Aaron

Thanks and I appreciate the support. It's the music that I'm focused on. My expectations do not change regardless of a person's race, nationality, etc. The facts are the facts with Arnel.

It's a nice reply IF Aaron is a racist ...?!?! I'm confused, is he? ...does Ttango know something we don't?!?!
If not ...the reply is mostly crap because that's what he's insinuating!! That's what I said!!!

Who cares if he's Filipino or Filipino American, if diction issues are a problem for someone it doesn't matter what race/nationality the singer is!!

Hey, I asked the questions and I pointed out that I didn't think you were racist. My POV was to show that it wasn't his decision to detune. And having said that, I ask you,"Have you yourself heard AP sing the songs in the original key?" If you have, then you would have NOT intimated that he could not, because you know that he indeed could sing it, note for note, in the original key, LIVE. You said he wasn't capable, that it was his doing. Then you said that there are a bunch of singers who could sing in the original key. So while Jeremey continues to baffle us with his longevity, everyone else who has ever sung lead for Journey, has bowed out to the catalog. Journey should have done the detune when Augeri was there, but they didn't, so perhaps they've learned from their past?

Again...I never said you were racist. RECOGNIZE!

[ttango1]

Aaron- Thanks for the reply. Now, we all await that 2nd album with AP as lead. Experimental Neal says...We'll see.

[Vladan]

Well I would put money on that John Farnham, or even LRB's Wayne Nelson not only could sing the entire Journey catalog with ease, but also in the original key and maybe break a sweat halfway through the show, he has the skills to do it, a lot of singers can do it, apparantlly Jason Kelty can do it, Jeremey Hunsicker can as well.

And after listening to some high profile vocal coaches, "If you sing properly, take care of your voice, you should never have real major concerns". But also some singers are just freaks as well, they can smoke, drugs whatever and still maintain their vocals, it's a mystery.

Journey songs are no different to any song IMO, problem is singers often try and sing it the way Steve Perry did it (Over The Top! style). If Steve Perry performed nursery rhymes instead of the Journey catalog, would the end results be the same, by him not performing again? I would bet yes... why, I don't know exactly.

But then you look at Opera singers, look at Tina Turner, still strong as ever.

[Aaron]

Dude, I'm quite happy to recognize Arnel as great singer, vocal talent and as a front man. The dude is good and flexible vocally. I hope you don't assume that my criticism assumes there's no talent there. I think the guy is really good. He's just not hitting my expectations for Journey yet. Can he? I think so. Will he? I hope so. He has the difficult role of filling the shoes of the best to ever grab a mic in my opinion. That will naturally give him a tough way to go for me. But hey, opinions are just like rear ends, everyone has one.

I can tell you I'll never be happy hearing those songs down a half step. They loose too much of their happy punch IMHO which looses too much of the songs positive message. The music and the lyrics combine to provide the overall message/vibe of a song in my mind. Foreigner is the same, the songs loose too much down a half step for Kelly. Again, just MHO.

We can only speculate now but, given he's in his 60's, my guess is sitting back having a cold one while having the Journey boys work for him.

Perry did it.

My bet it is Arnel's choice, or lack of capability. I don't think anyone would question Perry being a half step for even a full step down. Let's face it, he's Steve Fucking Perry. However, a half step down for a replacement singer? Are you kidding me, really? There's a SHITLOAD of people that can sing those songs in the original key. I mean shit, let's get Scott Stapp to sing this crap. I think I understand quite well and Journey are plonkers detuning for a replacement. If you're impressed with a half step down replacement that's your prerogative. I'm just not impressed with something less than the original. And there are folks out there that can do it.

maybe...but nobody who has ever done full touring on this catalog for 10 years in original key has ever survived it without it shredding the voice. You can do it at 30, but at 40+ years of age, it takes more time for the voice to recover. Without that time, the voice goes downhill.

Most people other than the diehards either a) can't tell the difference...or b) couldn't care less, so why would you NOT go down one-half step? If it buys your singer a few extra years, why would you not go down? If they had done that from the beginning, Augeri probably wouldn't have blown out his voice. Perry might not have either.

Where is Perry now?

And how long did Perry do it before he started tuning down on FTLOSM tours and quitting for good? 10, 11 years at most?

Perry was human too, but the one thing that gave him an advantage, was that he was using his natural singing voice and in his natural range while he was still young. He also needed to make his own personal adjustments for RoR tour because his voice had changed, remember? No, perry in his 60's can't do that, but we're going with the active years. Compare that to the age of his replacements attempting to sing Perry and adjust their own voices, to his from all of those years in the 80's when Perrys voice was changing. Perry himself couldn't keep up with his old hits. Perry lasted a little bit longer, but not enough to brag.

Just for comparison, Arnel has been singing since he was 15, for hours upon hours in smokey bars. He wasn't singing as a high tenor all of those years, but I'm certain he had a few of those in his catalog. His voice is in amazing shape when you consider that he's now, in his 40's, attempting to carry the Journey torch, which has one of the most demanding vocals of any band. He has even gotten better in some cases, but I don't believe it was his choice to lower the key, because as others have pointed out, he sings in regular key when he's without Journey.

Cut him a little slack, he might not be your favorite, since it's all subjective anyway, but don't diss his singing talents, diss his shitty diction, since that IS an issue.

[i[/i]

[stevew2]

Aaron- Thanks for the reply. Now, we all await that 2nd album with AP as lead. Experimental Neal says...We'll see.

i just like the hell out of your sig, my god, how many belly shots can you see in 10 seconds? good work