Don't Ask Don't Tell-Good Riddance To The Bigoted Law

[yulog]

[Charming, smart and good looking? Come on. I'm everybody's type!

Urinating in a girls mouth? Does that fall under charming, smart or good looking???

Actually i think that goes under the talented category

[Jeremey]

I've never served in combat. I've only trained for it. I've spent many weeks in tents with fellow soldiers, and I can tell you the reason there were no problems is because they didn't flaunt to us that they were gay. You've spent enough nights in hotel rooms that I'm sure you've been tea bagged PLENTY of times!

But how do you know they weren't secretly lusting after your sweet, virgin ass?

So to clarify your position, you don't mind gay people, gay men, in combat, as long as they aren't mincing around in tights and doing amyl poppers while under fire.

And you also think that these types of homosexuals will soon be enlisting and it will cause death to our soldiers.

I just want a concise summation of your opinion.

[RedWingFan]

Wow. First Clinton's tax codes come under assault by Obama and a Dem controlled Congress. Now they wax Clinton's DADT policy!!!

[parfait]

[Charming, smart and good looking? Come on. I'm everybody's type!

Urinating in a girls mouth? Does that fall under charming, smart or good looking???

Actually i think that goes under the talented category

Yup. You're obviously a connaisseur.

By the way, Angel. All this mouthy, though girl act isn't fooling anyone. What you need is some love and care - you're just going at it the wrong way. That special someone is out there. Hit me a PM in the meantime. I'm a good listener.

[Jana]

Thank God it's gone. Congrats to every gay soldier out there. You can now serve your country openly and honestly.

Thanks Obama and democrats and the few republicans who moved us into the 21st Century.

(I hate this laptop I'm having to use, but it's better than nothing)

Thats fine, but i wouldnt want to "bunk" with you doll

Trust me, you're NOTHING I'd ever be interested in.

WOW! The egos on straight men are hilarious.

I have a friend who is bisexual and stunning. And she told me once it was a joke, every straight female that knows she's bisexual thinks she looks at them in that way and are offended if she doesn't think of them that way (from an egotistical standpoint). This girl is beyond picky for males and females and probably is only attracted to like two percent of who she meets.

That's like saying a female heterosexual checks every male out and is attracted to all of them. NOT.

You should hook your friend up with Parfait. That way she gets a bf/gf in one pretty package

He is her type, lol.

So the 2% category you're talking about is people who enjoy Golden Showers ?!

LOL I forgot about that. She's a germophobe. Might not work. She likes guys that are more metrosexual looking and kind of pretty in a guy sort of way, no body hair, no body fat, so why he's her type.

[verslibre]

I once worked with a man that was openly gay, he wore semi-crossdressing type clothes, often wore makeup and flaunted his sexuality. Many people that worked with him were very uncomfortable around him-not because of the way he dressed or the way he looked but the way he constantly went on and on about his sexual preferences-making comments about men that would come in, talking about his dates and his sex life-very openly and very graphically. Finally someone complained and he played the "you're discriminating against me because I'm gay" card and nothing happened to him-he continued in his ways. A few months later one of the women in our department was talking about getting her hair done and just made the comment that she didn't like having her hair done by men-she specifially said "I don't want a fu-fu man working on my hair." The gay man heard it and complained-she ended up being written up, having disciplinary action taken against her, she had to participate in some weird "sensitivity training" class and nearly lost her job. I believe it's situations like this that lead to DADT and while I'm glad it's gone, I can also see why it may have come about in the first place.

Sounds like every person I've ever encountered at work places. Everyone talks about their "sexuality" even when it's just mentioning a wife or a husband.

I think the problem is with the people who have the problem, not with the gay guy you're talking about.

Nope. In this case, that guy's definitely the problem. If this guy is speaking openly and graphically about his sex life, everybody within earshot should gang up on him if he's going to play the "don't discriminate because I'm gay" card and then complain about somebody making a mild remark. And no, not every workplace consists of an entire staff of people babbling on about banging their significant others with each other, all day long. More often it's between two or three individuals who know each other, in close quarters, like the break room. Some places do require that employees comport themselves professionally. Not every workplace is an auto garage.

I'd rather be around someone who is themselves rather than someone others want them to be.

Too bad the gay guy mentioned above didn't feel similarly and had to go complain about a female co-worker with an opinion. He almost cost her her job. That's bullshit.

[parfait]

Thank God it's gone. Congrats to every gay soldier out there. You can now serve your country openly and honestly.

Thanks Obama and democrats and the few republicans who moved us into the 21st Century.

(I hate this laptop I'm having to use, but it's better than nothing)

Thats fine, but i wouldnt want to "bunk" with you doll

Trust me, you're NOTHING I'd ever be interested in.

WOW! The egos on straight men are hilarious.

I have a friend who is bisexual and stunning. And she told me once it was a joke, every straight female that knows she's bisexual thinks she looks at them in that way and are offended if she doesn't think of them that way (from an egotistical standpoint). This girl is beyond picky for males and females and probably is only attracted to like two percent of who she meets.

That's like saying a female heterosexual checks every male out and is attracted to all of them. NOT.

You should hook your friend up with Parfait. That way she gets a bf/gf in one pretty package

He is her type, lol.

So the 2% category you're talking about is people who enjoy Golden Showers ?!

LOL I forgot about that. She's a germophobe. Might not work. She likes guys that are more metrosexual looking and kind of pretty in a guy sort of way, no body hair, no body fat, so why he's her type.

I got ass hair and 7% body fat. Would that be a problem?

[Saint John]

I would let the military members vote on it. If they voted for gays in the military, then I'm ok with it. If they voted no, then I'd be ok with that, too.

[G.I.Jim]

I would let the military members vote on it. If they voted for gays in the military, then I'm ok with it. If they voted no, then I'd be ok with that, too.

Great idea Dan!

[steveo777]

I would let the military members vote on it. If they voted for gays in the military, then I'm ok with it. If they voted no, then I'd be ok with that, too.

If you let the people vote then it would become a miltary of free will instead of doing what is ordered. That concept doesn't work too well under combat conditions. It's best that the powers that be decide how it will be and the ranks need to follow what is decided.

[G.I.Jim]

I would let the military members vote on it. If they voted for gays in the military, then I'm ok with it. If they voted no, then I'd be ok with that, too.

If you let the people vote then it would become a miltary of free will instead of doing what is ordered. That concept doesn't work too well under combat conditions. It's best that the powers that be decide how it will be and the ranks need to follow what is decided.

Why do you think the military leaders are against this? Because they DO ask the soldiers and leaders what they think. We've been hit up with surveys a couple of times this past year about this specific subject. The leadership knows how the soldiers feel about it, and that's why they don't recommend that it be changed.

I do take orders, and like I said... it won't affect me that much where I work. It just affects those that are out there in the trenches everyday.

[Jana]

I would let the military members vote on it. If they voted for gays in the military, then I'm ok with it. If they voted no, then I'd be ok with that, too.

If you let the people vote then it would become a miltary of free will instead of doing what is ordered. That concept doesn't work too well under combat conditions. It's best that the powers that be decide how it will be and the ranks need to follow what is decided.

Why do you think the military leaders are against this? Because they DO ask the soldiers and leaders what they think. We've been hit up with surveys a couple of times this past year about this specific subject. The leadership knows how the soldiers feel about it, and that's why they don't recommend that it be changed.

I do take orders, and like I said... it won't affect me that much where I work. It just affects those that are out there in the trenches everyday.

Uh, military leaders against this, you say? You might want to read up more.

http://www.hrc.org/15114.htm

[G.I.Jim]

I would let the military members vote on it. If they voted for gays in the military, then I'm ok with it. If they voted no, then I'd be ok with that, too.

If you let the people vote then it would become a miltary of free will instead of doing what is ordered. That concept doesn't work too well under combat conditions. It's best that the powers that be decide how it will be and the ranks need to follow what is decided.

Why do you think the military leaders are against this? Because they DO ask the soldiers and leaders what they think. We've been hit up with surveys a couple of times this past year about this specific subject. The leadership knows how the soldiers feel about it, and that's why they don't recommend that it be changed.

I do take orders, and like I said... it won't affect me that much where I work. It just affects those that are out there in the trenches everyday.

Uh, military leaders against this, you say? You might want to read up more.

http://www.hrc.org/15114.htm

And you might want to read this...

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/12/militar ... -difficult

[G.I.Jim]

You know what, maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here. I've stated my beliefs, but I'll sit back and see what happens. I've been wrong before, and i know I'll be wrong again. I hope for everyone's sake that it DOES turn out ok. I don't want to see anyone hurt or killed. Guess we'll see soon enough one way or the other.

[Jana]

You know what, maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here. I've stated my beliefs, but I'll sit back and see what happens. I've been wrong before, and i know I'll be wrong again. I hope for everyone's sake that it DOES turn out ok. I don't want to see anyone hurt or killed. Guess we'll see soon enough one way or the other.

Most articles I've read many gays still won't be too open because they fear for their careers progressing or repercussions, but now, at least, they won't fear being discharged. It was heartening to read many stories by open-minded commanders on the ground knowing a solider was gay but that their work ethic was so strong and they were depended on by their fellow soldiers that it was a nonissue.

I watched 60 Minutes and it was sad to see how many fine military personnel were discharged under DADT, like the career Air Force nurse Margaret Witt, who was a Major in the Air Force, who was finally reinstated. She gave her life to the military and look how she was treated. Just like I'm sure back in the late 40s probably a big percentage of white soldiers didn't want blacks desegregated into the military because of such racial prejudice back in the day, but it worked itself out. There will be problems, just like there's been problems with women in the military (rape), just like there's been problems in the military with flat-out bad soldiers. There is no perfect answer.

[SteveForever]

Some believe that the government is going to use the military as a legislated social experiment since Americans can't seem to make
up their minds and in general don't favor social benefits. This might be a platform for activism and people will join for the benefits States won't give them.

It will be interesting to see if they are allowed a Pride Parade on bases now?

[donnaplease]

We live in such a litigious society that I can see this causing lots of time and money in lawsuits, on both sides of the issue. I do believe there will be issues similar to what Jim and Nat mentioned. After watching Reichen talk about it on The A-List, I have a little bit of a clearer understanding of it from the gay POV. Travis spent 6 years in the Navy (submarine force) and we have talked about this. He said he wouldn't have had a problem with serving alongside gay men. He's a pretty easy-going and understanding guy, though, and said many of his boatmates would've balked at it.

I'll just wait and see how things go before I form an opinion on whether it was a wise decision or not. Congrats to Bobby, I know this means a lot to you.

[Angel]

Sounds like every person I've ever encountered at work places. Everyone talks about their "sexuality" even when it's just mentioning a wife or a husband.

I think the problem is with the people who have the problem, not with the gay guy you're talking about.

Not everyone feels a need to conform and thank God they don't. I'd rather be around someone who is themselves rather than someone others want them to be.

Um, no. This was very different. It's one thing to mention your husband or wife but when you flaunt your sexual experiences-in a very graphic manner-it's offensive no matter what your sexual preferences are. It just seems that if you can play the discrimination card it's OK. No one else could get away with talking the way he did-but as soon as he said "discrimination" and "gay" he gets away with anything he wants because the company doesn't want to risk s lawsuit.

[Rockindeano]

I'll just wait and see how things go before I form an opinion on whether it was a wise decision or not.

Huh? Anyone can simply wait it out to see what is best for the situation. The hard choices need to be made before seeing what transpires. I want to see what you believe to be the right decision, not what will turn out? The principle here is so clear it isn't funny. This was absolutely the right decision.

[Angel]

By the way, Angel. All this mouthy, though girl act isn't fooling anyone. What you need is some love and care - you're just going at it the wrong way. That special someone is out there. Hit me a PM in the meantime. I'm a good listener.

Um....no, thanks.

[donnaplease]

I'll just wait and see how things go before I form an opinion on whether it was a wise decision or not.

Huh? Anyone can simply wait it out to see what is best for the situation. The hard choices need to be made before seeing what transpires. I want to see what you believe to be the right decision, not what will turn out? The principle here is so clear it isn't funny. This was absolutely the right decision.

I said what I believe will happen. I believe we will see an enormous amount of lawsuits as a result, either civil suits or charges brought against military men and women from both sides of the issue. I hope I am wrong. Right and wrong is very clear, I agree. But... we're dealing with people here, and what you and some others need to realize is that we all come together from different localities, cultures, and viewpoints. Someone from BFE, West Virginia is not necessarily going to be as accepting as someone from Boston or San Francisco. Some of it is by choice (choosing to hate homosexuals) and some of it is simply due to lack of understanding of an alternative lifestyle. We are often afraid of what we don't understand, and instead of expressing it as fear, we express it as contempt. Add to that the intense situations that can arise in military life, and I can see where it could be a problem.

I am leaning toward being cautiously optimistic about it. Trust, but verify. Just like other changes in the military (blacks and women serving, as was already mentioned), it is gonna take time before it is fully accepted. You just can't wave a wand (or cast a vote) and cause people's hearts and minds to change.

[Don]

Okay let's see. All these miltaries listed below allow gays to serve openly. None of them seem to have fallen completely apart so far because of it. The U.S. however shared company with that great bastion of Democracy called Turkey with it's prohibition. Wow, bedfellows with muslims of all people, nice.
As I said earlier, I have done time in Europe and the Pacific and have seen a lot of gay personel serve with the majority of the peers knowing they are gay and it has not been an issue. With a few exceptions, only at bases in the states has it become a hotbed topic. From my own perspective, the miltary has greater problems such as spouse abuse, sexism, alcoholism and even that big one, rasicm which is still out there, believe it or not.

As you can see, a lot of the countries below are allies who we have done exercises with and gone to combat with. In all honesty, looks like a lot of American troops may have possibly been in foxholes with people of a different orientation. If the only reason these Americans were okay with that is because they didn't know, well maybe it's time for them to make a career change.
Albania
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Canada
Republic of China
Colombia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Republic of Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
The Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Russia
Serbia
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
Bermuda
Uruguay

[SteveForever]

Okay let's see. All these miltaries listed below allow gays to serve openly. None of them seem to have fallen completely apart so far because of it. The U.S. however shared company with that great bastion of Democracy called Turkey with it's prohibition. Wow, bedfellows with muslims of all people, nice.
As I said earlier, I have done time in Europe and the Pacific and have seen a lot of gay personel serve with the majority of the peers knowing they are gay and it has not been an issue. With a few exceptions, only at bases in the states has it become a hotbed topic. From my own perspective, the miltary has greater problems such as spouse abuse, sexism, alcoholism nd even that big one, rasicm which is still out there, believe it or not.

As you can see, a lot of the countries below are allies who we have done exercises with and gone to combat with. In all honesty, looks like a lot of American troops may have possibly been in foxholes with people of a different orientation. If the only reason these Americans were okay with that is because they didn't know, well maybe it's time for them to make a career change.
Albania
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Canada
Republic of China
Colombia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Republic of Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
The Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Russia
Serbia
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
Bermuda
Uruguay

Don, most of these countries don't have millions who are expected to militarize in combat and in expeditionary nature. They don't deploy and most aren't effective. A few like Swede and Norway are just social havens that are for NATO.
I still think gays should be allowed in the military, but you can't compare us to them.....this is the United States.

[Don]

SteveForever
The big thing here, is we have had gays in the military for years. Many American commanders overseas have Totalitarian power over their facilties and for the most part accepted it that some members of their small communities were gay (with a wink and a nudge because it was NOT a big issue).
The Miltary has had a headstart on this for years. It will work itself out. It just takes educating, which has already been happening. The last decade has changed in many areas for the services. No longer can you join up to get a free ride because you had ten kids by the time you were 30 or you had problems with the law. The new soldier is far more educated than he was 40 years ago. The average ENLISTED Air force recruit comes though the door with an Associates degree and is 21. The days of pulling in not so bright 17 year old joes from the bayou are over.

[Jana]

Okay let's see. All these miltaries listed below allow gays to serve openly. None of them seem to have fallen completely apart so far because of it. The U.S. however shared company with that great bastion of Democracy called Turkey with it's prohibition. Wow, bedfellows with muslims of all people, nice.
As I said earlier, I have done time in Europe and the Pacific and have seen a lot of gay personel serve with the majority of the peers knowing they are gay and it has not been an issue. With a few exceptions, only at bases in the states has it become a hotbed topic. From my own perspective, the miltary has greater problems such as spouse abuse, sexism, alcoholism nd even that big one, rasicm which is still out there, believe it or not.

As you can see, a lot of the countries below are allies who we have done exercises with and gone to combat with. In all honesty, looks like a lot of American troops may have possibly been in foxholes with people of a different orientation. If the only reason these Americans were okay with that is because they didn't know, well maybe it's time for them to make a career change.
Albania
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Canada
Republic of China
Colombia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Republic of Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
The Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Russia
Serbia
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
Bermuda
Uruguay

Don, most of these countries don't have millions who are expected to militarize in combat and in expeditionary nature. They don't deploy and most aren't effective. A few like Swede and Norway are just social havens that are for NATO.
I still think gays should be allowed in the military, but you can't compare us to them.....this is the United States.

They're already in our military in the trenches, fighting wars, being nurses under the DADT law and before the law was enacted.

Even recruiters.

[Behshad]

SteveForever
The big thing here, is we have had gays in the military for years. Many American commanders overseas have Totalitarian power over their facilties and for the most part accepted it that some members of their small communities were gay (with a wink and a nudge because it was NOT a big issue).
The Miltary has had a headstart on this for years. It will work itself out. It just takes educating, which has already been happening. The last decade has changed in many areas for the services. No longer can you join up to get a free ride because you had ten kids by the time you were 30 or you had problems with the law. The new soldier is far more educated than he was 40 years ago. The average ENLISTED Air force recruit comes though the door with an Associates degree and is 21. The days of pulling in not so bright 17 year old joes from the bayou are over.

As always , great points sir !

Like Dean said , this is a very simple matter.
Who cares about peoples sexual preferences , if they're willing to risk their lives for you! Just deal with it and be appreciative instead of bitching from the comfort of your home !

[Jana]

SteveForever
The big thing here, is we have had gays in the military for years. Many American commanders overseas have Totalitarian power over their facilties and for the most part accepted it that some members of their small communities were gay (with a wink and a nudge because it was NOT a big issue).
The Miltary has had a headstart on this for years. It will work itself out. It just takes educating, which has already been happening. The last decade has changed in many areas for the services. No longer can you join up to get a free ride because you had ten kids by the time you were 30 or you had problems with the law. The new soldier is far more educated than he was 40 years ago. The average ENLISTED Air force recruit comes though the door with an Associates degree and is 21. The days of pulling in not so bright 17 year old joes from the bayou are over.

As always , great points sir !

Like Dean said , this is a very simple matter.
Who cares about peoples sexual preferences , if they're willing to risk their lives for you! Just deal with it and be appreciative instead of bitching from the comfort of your home !

Both great points.

[Rick]

SteveForever
The big thing here, is we have had gays in the military for years. Many American commanders overseas have Totalitarian power over their facilties and for the most part accepted it that some members of their small communities were gay (with a wink and a nudge because it was NOT a big issue).
The Miltary has had a headstart on this for years. It will work itself out. It just takes educating, which has already been happening. The last decade has changed in many areas for the services. No longer can you join up to get a free ride because you had ten kids by the time you were 30 or you had problems with the law. The new soldier is far more educated than he was 40 years ago. The average ENLISTED Air force recruit comes though the door with an Associates degree and is 21. The days of pulling in not so bright 17 year old joes from the bayou are over.

As always , great points sir !

Like Dean said , this is a very simple matter.
Who cares about peoples sexual preferences , if they're willing to risk their lives for you! Just deal with it and be appreciative instead of bitching from the comfort of your home !

Well, it is the most convenient place to bitch from.

[Arkansas]

Wait a min. Isn't war, combat, aggression in general, all 'close-minded' crap anyway? Therefore, let it be waged by those inclined to be that way. I mean, if we have to be 'open-minded' about all this bulls#it, then we should globally put our weapons away, get along, and have group hugs en masse, no?



later~

[SteveForever]

SteveForever
The big thing here, is we have had gays in the military for years. Many American commanders overseas have Totalitarian power over their facilties and for the most part accepted it that some members of their small communities were gay (with a wink and a nudge because it was NOT a big issue).
The Miltary has had a headstart on this for years. It will work itself out. It just takes educating, which has already been happening. The last decade has changed in many areas for the services. No longer can you join up to get a free ride because you had ten kids by the time you were 30 or you had problems with the law. The new soldier is far more educated than he was 40 years ago. The average ENLISTED Air force recruit comes though the door with an Associates degree and is 21. The days of pulling in not so bright 17 year old joes from the bayou are over.

All true but my point was that you still can't compare us to other nation's militaries ... Wonder what the first transgender uniform will look like?