MR ECLIPSE SHOWCASE

[Majestic]

So? There's a big difference between comparing a new song to an old classic, and complaining that there are no hooks, or that the music sounds like a different band altogether. You're changing the subject.

Look, my whole point is that I'm not as hot for this album as you are. Which is fine. If you think it's the greatest album since Frontiers, good for you. I disagree. I hope there are fans who like this album and support it as they are helping to support the Melodic Rock community. Outside of that, I don't appreciate someone saying that "You are delusional" if one does not like this album. I will shut down that type of douchebagger pretty quickly.

Sure it was. YouTube didn't even exist yet. Neither did Itunes. If you wanted to hear a Journey bootleg, you had to download it off Napster or Livewire. The whole reason Deano had to create a blog and post soundbytes of the band lipping, is because there were no sites with audio of the band. Like I said, with the internet expanding, the floodgates have been opened, and every little thing this band does is scrutinized under a microscope. The SA lineup would never have survived.

Um, the internet did exist long before You Tube and iTunes. The "public internet" had already been out for years by the time of the SA lineup. Hardly an "infancy" stage in terms of computer technology. In fact, the internet itself has been going on since the early 60's. So, no, it was not the "infancy" stage of the internet. True, you didn't have You Tube or iTunes back in the early 2000's, but you did have music services like Yahoo's music service in which you could listen to your favorite band's tunes legally. And as far as Journey goes, there was a Journey Digest in which I was subscribed to back in the late 90's. In fact, that is how I heard about Steve Perry's departure from Journey. And there, of course, was this forum which was in existence before You Tube and during the Steve Augeri years. AND the "lipping" stuff didn't really come out until after You Tube was started anyways. So, you have your facts messed up on this. Apparently you have forgotten those years of the Loons VS the Wigglers.

I got my first dial up connection in 2000, and I only knew a very small handful of people with it in 99, so it was definitely in its infancy. That it existed in the 60s for government and military does count for much since we are talking about the public, and getting the scoop on rock bands, etc., no?

[Don]

I thought everyone had dial up by '99. I remember forums everywhere popping up about the Y2K bug. I also remember leaving the computer on all night to down load tons of European dance songs on Napster and Neo Geo Game Roms.

[Saint John]

It was very much in its infant stages:

[Eric]

I thought everyone had dial up by '99. I remember forums everywhere popping up about the Y2K bug. I also remember leaving the computer on all night to down load songs on Napter and Neo Geo Game Roms.

I had dial-up in '92, broadband in '01. By '99, most everyone had dial-up I knew at home and at work.

[Michigan Girl]

My children were online instant messaging all their friends
and family around the US in the mid 90's ...seriously, everyone had AOL
dial~up. Much of their homework was WWW related!! !!!

[Don]

The dot.coms were booming then. I had friends downloading cracked versions of Office 2000 and Adobe at work over their T1 lines.

[JourneyHard]

If there are no more CDs, how will we get Journey's new music?

If we are forced to download it off computer, it will be compressed and sound like crap. Right?

[Saint John]

The dot.coms were booming then. I had friends downloading cracked versions of Office 2000 and Adobe at work over their T1 lines.

Understood, but "infant stages" refers to usage and how much it was a part of peoples' lives. There was no Facebook, MySpace, Youtube, Twitter or any other everyday aspect to the internet. Now someone uses the internet virtually every day. It was a pain in the fucking ass to use most of the time back then, and at the time of Arrival's release, only 5.8% of the world was using the it. It was a passing thing done primarily at night. Now it's on phones, tablets and in virtually every single office in the world.

[Don]

If there are no more CDs, how will we get Journey's new music?

If we are forced to download it off computer, it will be compressed and sound like crap. Right?

If Eclipse doesn't near the retail success of Revelation, you might not have to worry about NEW music for awhile. I would expect their next release to be a live album instead.

[VirgilTheart]

If there are no more CDs, how will we get Journey's new music?

If we are forced to download it off computer, it will be compressed and sound like crap. Right?

If Eclipse doesn't outsell Revelation, you might not have to worry about NEW music for awhile. I would expect their next release to be a live album instead.

And I reckon it'd be about time IMO. Journey 2001 and Live in Manila were both terrific concerts and good live concert films, but I would've preferred them both to have also been in an album format as well.

[Don]

If there are no more CDs, how will we get Journey's new music?

If we are forced to download it off computer, it will be compressed and sound like crap. Right?

If Eclipse doesn't outsell Revelation, you might not have to worry about NEW music for awhile. I would expect their next release to be a live album instead.

And I reckon it'd be about time IMO. Journey 2001 and Live in Manila were both terrific concerts and good live concert films, but I would've preferred them both to have also been in an album format as well.

Live In Manila was a concert that was hyped as the next big thing in Hi-Def Entertainment but fell flat because of totally shoddy production values. Someone dropped the ball there, for sure.
Yes, it debuted at #1 on the music charts but then what? Unlike Arrival, Houston 81, or the Greatest Hits there is no Platinum certification, not even a gold certification.. Not sure who screwed up the sound but all fingers will probably point at Kevin Shirley.

No, they need to do it right. Record various shows this year, sift through everything and release a live album/DVD package on the eve of next year's tour.

[Greg]

The public internet was alive and booming in the early 90's. In fact, I had gotten my first email address around '93. I had created my first website around '96. By the end of the 90's, mostly everyone had at least dial-up if not broadband internet in my area, which is always behind in terms of technology. The point is, people had access to the internet by the mid-90's, even if they didn't necessarily have it in their own home. They could have went to the public library or the college to play on the internet. Certainly this might differ from some Asian or European countries, but I can testify to the fact that the internet had avenues in which people could hold discussions on topics back in the day. The Journey-Digest is a great example of that.

I think TNC was using the comments about the "infancy" of the internet in claiming that is the reason why the Augeri version of Journey was not scrutinized as much as the Pineda version of Journey. I disagree, because there were discussion boards and mailing lists back in the mid-90's and especially around the time Augeri joined Journey and up to the time he left the band. While those avenues may not have been like the avenues we have today, people still had online access to get their points across. So it can definitely be possible that more people who follow Journey enjoyed the Augeri version better than the Pineda version. I certainly seem to remember a lot of discussions as Pro-Augeri and Anti-Augeri like we have today with the current lineup. He also mentioned the lipping thing. I seem to remember that coming out around the time You Tube was first starting off (2005.) By that point, most everyone had access to the internet.

Speaking of the early days of the internet, you go to google and type in Internet Archive. Go to that site and type in a web address into the wayback machine. It will give you indexed pages of that site dating back to that site's creation year.

[VirgilTheart]

If there are no more CDs, how will we get Journey's new music?

If we are forced to download it off computer, it will be compressed and sound like crap. Right?

If Eclipse doesn't outsell Revelation, you might not have to worry about NEW music for awhile. I would expect their next release to be a live album instead.

And I reckon it'd be about time IMO. Journey 2001 and Live in Manila were both terrific concerts and good live concert films, but I would've preferred them both to have also been in an album format as well.

Live In Manila was a concert that was hyped as the next big thing in Hi-Def Entertainment but fell flat because of totally shoddy production values. Someone dropped the ball there, for sure.
Yes, it debuted at #1 on the music charts but then what? Unlike Arrival, Houston 81, or the Greatest Hits there is no Platinum certification, not even a gold certification.. Not sure who screwed up the sound but all fingers will probably point at Kevin Shirley.

No, they need to do it right. Record various shows this year, sift through everything and release a live album/DVD package on the eve of next year's tour.

I wasn't referring to sales or production. I mean that I actually liked the damn concert and wish I had it on my iPod or a CD player instead of on a TV screen.

[Greg]

The dot.coms were booming then. I had friends downloading cracked versions of Office 2000 and Adobe at work over their T1 lines.

Understood, but "infant stages" refers to usage and how much it was a part of peoples' lives. There was no Facebook, MySpace, Youtube, Twitter or any other everyday aspect to the internet. Now someone uses the internet virtually every day. It was a pain in the fucking ass to use most of the time back then, and at the time of Arrival's release, only 5.8% of the world was using the it. It was a passing thing done primarily at night. Now it's on phones, tablets and in virtually every single office in the world.

There's no doubt we're more socially "connected" now than what we were in the 90's.

[Don]

If there are no more CDs, how will we get Journey's new music?

If we are forced to download it off computer, it will be compressed and sound like crap. Right?

If Eclipse doesn't outsell Revelation, you might not have to worry about NEW music for awhile. I would expect their next release to be a live album instead.

And I reckon it'd be about time IMO. Journey 2001 and Live in Manila were both terrific concerts and good live concert films, but I would've preferred them both to have also been in an album format as well.

Live In Manila was a concert that was hyped as the next big thing in Hi-Def Entertainment but fell flat because of totally shoddy production values. Someone dropped the ball there, for sure.
Yes, it debuted at #1 on the music charts but then what? Unlike Arrival, Houston 81, or the Greatest Hits there is no Platinum certification, not even a gold certification.. Not sure who screwed up the sound but all fingers will probably point at Kevin Shirley.

No, they need to do it right. Record various shows this year, sift through everything and release a live album/DVD package on the eve of next year's tour.

I wasn't referring to sales or production. I mean that I actually liked the damn concert and wish I had it on my iPod or a CD player instead of on a TV screen.

That's easy enough. If you are fine with that show's production, just rip the audio and there you go. There's tons of software that will do that task for you.

[Vladan]

It's pretty good, but I don't beleive it's better than Revalations, because I feel Rev had more catchier tunes, better choruses.

[steveo777]

It's pretty good, but I don't beleive it's better than Revalations, because I feel Rev had more catchier tunes, better choruses.

You're a dumb ass. There is nobody on the planet that can argue in good stat43 of mind that revelation is better than eclipse......no one!

[jrny10]

Checked out these clips and I think I'm going to have to pass on this one. It doesn't seem to be any better than Revelation. The lyrics seem to be "What it takes to win" bad, Tantra just sounds sugar-y, a distinct lack of deep emotion, the accent issues are still here etc etc. Take away Cain from the songwriting, get a new singer or pursue solo projects... it's the only way now

What happened with JRNY...

[The_Noble_Cause]

Outside of that, I don't appreciate someone saying that "You are delusional" if one does not like this album.

That's not what I said...
If a fan expects every new Journey song to be an arena anthem ala SW or AWYWI, then, YES, they are dellusional. You don't like the album because you have a bias of unreasonable expectations.

Um, the internet did exist long before You Tube and iTunes. The "public internet" had already been out for years by the time of the SA lineup. Hardly an "infancy" stage in terms of computer technology. In fact, the internet itself has been going on since the early 60's. So, no, it was not the "infancy" stage of the internet. True, you didn't have You Tube or iTunes back in the early 2000's, but you did have music services like Yahoo's music service in which you could listen to your favorite band's tunes legally. And as far as Journey goes, there was a Journey Digest in which I was subscribed to back in the late 90's. In fact, that is how I heard about Steve Perry's departure from Journey. And there, of course, was this forum which was in existence before You Tube and during the Steve Augeri years. AND the "lipping" stuff didn't really come out until after You Tube was started anyways. So, you have your facts messed up on this. Apparently you have forgotten those years of the Loons VS the Wigglers.

Greg, you're quite the literal bore. OF COURSE, the internet already existed. It was our very own Andrew who broke the news that Perry was out, right here on MR.com. And yes, the Perry vs. Augeri wars have been raging since the old Usenet forums. But what of it? Relative to today, that's ancient history. The SA era pre-dated YouTube and Iphones and all sorts of other breakthroughs. If these things had been in use, the Augeri-era would've been exposed alot sooner than it was.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The dot.coms were booming then. I had friends downloading cracked versions of Office 2000 and Adobe at work over their T1 lines.

Understood, but "infant stages" refers to usage and how much it was a part of peoples' lives. There was no Facebook, MySpace, Youtube, Twitter or any other everyday aspect to the internet. Now someone uses the internet virtually every day. It was a pain in the fucking ass to use most of the time back then, and at the time of Arrival's release, only 5.8% of the world was using the it. It was a passing thing done primarily at night. Now it's on phones, tablets and in virtually every single office in the world.

EXACTLY. Thanks.

[Michigan Girl]

It's pretty good, but I don't beleive it's better than Revalations, because I feel Rev had more catchier tunes, better choruses.

You're a dumb ass. There is nobody on the planet that can argue in good stat43 of mind that revelation is better than eclipse......no one!

If it suits his taste more that does not make him a dumb~ass and I don't even like Revelation ...Andrew said
this lp would scare some fans off ...loons!! I think it's going to scare off more than just loons!!

I'm seeing comparisons over and over to TBF. Some of those people making those
comparisons LOVE what they are hearing from this new LP, yet bashed TBF!! I am on
record as loving TBF, the musicianship was incredible, loved the vox and yes I love BILY!!
I'll be curious to see if I agree w/this comparison ...Vlad?!?

[Glenn]

It's pretty good, but I don't beleive it's better than Revalations, because I feel Rev had more catchier tunes, better choruses.

Maybe a more accurate comparison can be made once Eclipse is released and the entire songs can be heard, not just clips.

[Archetype]

I'm betting about 50,000 in first week sales. These samples are pretty good; I've listened to all of them several times now. The only song I really can't get into is "Ritual" as it sounds WAY too much like "Wildest Dream" Maybe it'll grow on me when I have the full album and can play it in my car. "Edge Of The Moment" and "She's A Mystery" are the two best on this album, IMO.

I have no doubt that this album will hit gold by the time the tour starts and there's a pretty decent shot at it going platinum by the end of the tour. Really hoping for at least four Eclipse songs played this summer.

[Glenn]

MG, will this review be 100% objective?

I wouldn't worry about her. She should be pretty fair.

Steveo, this is,
perhaps, the most accurately observant statement you’ve ever made …where
I’m concerned, anyway!! I’m certain that in about 2 minutes/seconds you’ll
say something idiotic to ruin the pride I feel for you right now …but credit
where credit is due!! Portland, you can deal with him.

JSSR~ I stated earlier that I would be interested to see the initial
Revelation reviews from this group, myself included. I’m pretty
sure I was either pretty ok with them, or, if I was uncertain, standoffish.
I listened to that CD quite a bit, more than twice for sure. My thoughts today are this,

1) The voice was good/sometimes great …dialect issues aside.
2) The songs/lyrics were mmmm, ok to good, but that’s typical for Journey.
3) Some really good moments with the overall musicianship
4) I won't even touch on the mixing crap because I don't understand
all of that, but people here make sense of it for me.

But, I was bored, I had no desire/urge to listen to these songs.
There was just no connection, the singer was not pulling me in,
he did not make me believe that we had been together for 20/30
years, long enough to have faded photographs…I was shocked to
find out that we had children together, much less a sexual relationship.
I’m hoping with this CD, and AP’s input, I will feel as though he has an
emotional connection to the songs, which will, in turn, pull me in.

I will wait to hear them in full, in order, in my stereo and then I'll
have input ...

After long thought I came up with something you said, "just no connection".

It's very hard to feel connected with new material from any band that has been around as long as Journey.

The classic Journey tunes where first heard when we were kids/teenagers...The songs take us back and always remind us of yesteryear.

There are no memories with the new tunes.. Most of us have kids, careers, etc....It's different now. So you just have to simplify it and just decide if its a good tune or not. Can't compare it to the old stuff for many reasons...It sucks, but that's just the way it is.

I wonder how Revelation would fare to the Melodic Rock Journey fan if it were released, with Perry in 1983, and the new Journey cd we are all waiting for with Arnel was Frontiers.


You make great points MG, and I do look forward to your review.

[VirgilTheart]

After long thought I came up with something you said, "just no connection".

It's very hard to feel connected with new material from any band that has been around as long as Journey.

The classic Journey tunes where first heard when we were kids/teenagers...The songs take us back and always remind us of yesteryear.

There are no memories with the new tunes.. Most of us have kids, careers, etc....It's different now. So you just have to simplify it and just decide if its a good tune or not. Can't compare it to the old stuff for many reasons...It sucks, but that's just the way it is.

I wonder how Revelation would fare to the Melodic Rock Journey fan if it were released, with Perry in 1983, and the new Journey cd we are all waiting for with Arnel was Frontiers.

You make great points MG, and I do look forward to your review.

Perhaps this is why I don't get what many of you guys are saying at times; you were all about my age (or somewhat older) when Perry was around. That was the Journey you're familiar with. And while I love listening to those songs, I feel a gap between me and those songs. I wasn't even conceived during the Perry era.

I'm absolutely stoked for Eclipse, even more than I was for Revelation. For me, those will probably be the songs that really take me back twenty years from now.

[RedWingFan]

I'm absolutely stoked for Eclipse, even more than I was for Revelation. For me, those will probably be the songs that really take me back twenty years from now.

True, but the difference is that twenty years from now you'll probably be "taken back" with a dozen or so other people.

[steveo777]

I'm absolutely stoked for Eclipse, even more than I was for Revelation. For me, those will probably be the songs that really take me back twenty years from now.

True, but the difference is that twenty years from now you'll probably be "taken back" with a dozen or so other people.

Lol.....attrition!

[VirgilTheart]

I'm absolutely stoked for Eclipse, even more than I was for Revelation. For me, those will probably be the songs that really take me back twenty years from now.

True, but the difference is that twenty years from now you'll probably be "taken back" with a dozen or so other people.

Meh, but a dozen is better than none at all.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The only song I really can't get into is "Ritual" as it sounds WAY too much like "Wildest Dream."

I noticed a similarity too.

[Vladan]

It's pretty good, but I don't beleive it's better than Revalations, because I feel Rev had more catchier tunes, better choruses.

You're a dumb ass. There is nobody on the planet that can argue in good stat43 of mind that revelation is better than eclipse......no one!

Oh I see, look at when I started posting here, and then take a look when you joined. I already have a head start. Let's not start the name calling, because you will not be winning this battle

And I can say I've been through it all here, had epics with Deano, still came out alive and somewhat sane, not many can admit that... Deano will eat anyone here for breakfast, even drew.