Generations

[yulog]

...but at least half the songs on Generations are solid songs, and have replay value to them, which can't be said for Eclipse.

Not even in the same class. Generations is a throwaway album, which is best left forgotten. Eclipse is solid from start to finish.

Agreed, Generations is in a higher class, and while i disagree that any of the journey cds are garbage , my guess is from what I have heard and seen Eclipse will be the most forgotten.(I'm willing to bet that most journey fans will feel the same way)

[Gideon]

Could be because of the times, but Eclipse certainly did better on the charts than Generations.

[Don]

Eclipse is just a better album. Generations has two or three songs that are okay, where Eclipse (to, me anyway) has at least six or seven that are listenable. That said, Generations is the liner that keeps Eclipse from being the worse selling full length Journey album ever released in the states. Even the pre-Perry albums have accumulated more sales over the years. Unfortunately, the music scene is very unforgiving these days and doesn't allow for those kinds of infinite trickle sales anymore. An older single can re-emerge and get a nice run going again but usually when a full album release hits the skids now, it's pretty much game over.

We know the band are chart watchers, so why they never broke out AIP live when it had it's little moment on the A/C Chart is beyond me. They talk about how they want this album to keep on moving but their actions speak otherwise.

[Gideon]

Eclipse is just a better album. Generations has two or three songs that are okay, where Eclipse (to, me anyway) has at least six or seven that are listenable. That said, Generations is the liner that keeps Eclipse from being the worse selling full length Journey album ever released in the states. Even the pre-Perry albums have accumulated more sales over the years. Unfortunately, the music scene is very unforgiving these days and doesn't allow for those kinds of infinite trickle sales anymore. An older single can re-emerge and get a nice run going again but usually when a full album release hits the skids now, it's pretty much game over.

What are your six or seven again?

[Don]

Eclipse is just a better album. Generations has two or three songs that are okay, where Eclipse (to, me anyway) has at least six or seven that are listenable. That said, Generations is the liner that keeps Eclipse from being the worse selling full length Journey album ever released in the states. Even the pre-Perry albums have accumulated more sales over the years. Unfortunately, the music scene is very unforgiving these days and doesn't allow for those kinds of infinite trickle sales anymore. An older single can re-emerge and get a nice run going again but usually when a full album release hits the skids now, it's pretty much game over.

What are your six or seven again?

AIP
Someone
EOTM
COL
Resonate
Ritual

It's iffy with #7. SAM or HF but only once in awhile. I liked those two songs a lot initially but after a few more listens, they lost favor very quickly.

[Gideon]

Eclipse is just a better album. Generations has two or three songs that are okay, where Eclipse (to, me anyway) has at least six or seven that are listenable. That said, Generations is the liner that keeps Eclipse from being the worse selling full length Journey album ever released in the states. Even the pre-Perry albums have accumulated more sales over the years. Unfortunately, the music scene is very unforgiving these days and doesn't allow for those kinds of infinite trickle sales anymore. An older single can re-emerge and get a nice run going again but usually when a full album release hits the skids now, it's pretty much game over.

What are your six or seven again?

AIP
Someone
EOTM
COL
Resonate
Ritual

It's iffy with #7. SAM or HF but only once in awhile.

Isn't it funny how first impressions change? SAM was your favorite song initially, right?

[Don]

Eclipse is just a better album. Generations has two or three songs that are okay, where Eclipse (to, me anyway) has at least six or seven that are listenable. That said, Generations is the liner that keeps Eclipse from being the worse selling full length Journey album ever released in the states. Even the pre-Perry albums have accumulated more sales over the years. Unfortunately, the music scene is very unforgiving these days and doesn't allow for those kinds of infinite trickle sales anymore. An older single can re-emerge and get a nice run going again but usually when a full album release hits the skids now, it's pretty much game over.

What are your six or seven again?

AIP
Someone
EOTM
COL
Resonate
Ritual

It's iffy with #7. SAM or HF but only once in awhile.

Isn't it funny how first impressions change? SAM was your favorite song initially, right?

Yeah, I thought it was outstanding, Journey doing grunge. Even Human Feel was great at first but repeated listens weren't very kind to those two. COL fell out of grace with me too for awhile but slowly worked its way back onto my playlist.

[Gideon]

Resonate has staying power.

[Don]

Resonate has staying power.

Yeah, that song has grown on me a bit. I think I called it a beefed up Walking Away From The Edge initially. Very moody. No vocal acrobats, just a song that you can darken the sky with for a moment.

[Gideon]

Resonate has staying power.

Yeah, that song has grown on me a bit. I think I called it a beefed up Walking Away From The Edge initially. Very moody. No vocal acrobats, just a song that you can darken the sky with for a moment.

Way to put a suicidal spin on it.

[yulog]

Generations was given away for free, no one should have expected people to go out and buy it, just like Prince who gave away 3 million of his cds Planet earth sales did not do particularly well at all compared to his previous cds. Prince was smart and made money off giving them away, Journey as far as i can tell didn't have the same type of deal. Nonetheless, Eclipse without being given away by the thousands has had the worst showing yet in sales, an absolute bomb in anybodys book.

[steveo777]

Generations was given away for free, no one should have expected people to go out and buy it, just like Prince who gave away 3 million of his cds Planet earth sales did not do particularly well at all compared to his previous cds. Prince was smart and made money off giving them away, Journey as far as i can tell didn't have the same type of deal. Nonetheless, Eclipse without being given away by the thousands has had the worst showing yet in sales, an absolute bomb in anybodys book.

A bomb in sales, yes, but a bomb as an album, nope.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Generations was given away for free, no one should have expected people to go out and buy it, just like Prince who gave away 3 million of his cds Planet earth sales did not do particularly well at all compared to his previous cds.

It is my understanding that those Prince cds counted as sales. Neal copied the idea, in the hopes that he could game the system. By the time Gens was being handed out at shows, the RIAA changed the rules. The band would finally cheat the system succesfully by including re-recorded hits with Revelation and landing on the chart.

[steveo777]

Generations was given away for free, no one should have expected people to go out and buy it, just like Prince who gave away 3 million of his cds Planet earth sales did not do particularly well at all compared to his previous cds.

It is my understanding that those Prince cds counted as sales. Neal copied the idea, in the hopes that he could game the system. By the time Gens was being handed out at shows, the RIAA changed the rules. The band would finally cheat the system succesfully by including re-recorded hits with Revelation and landing on the chart.

Cheat the system? Dude, they played by the RIAA's own rules and if they didn't and the RIAA thought they had cheated or "beat the system" the certification would not have been made and could have certainly been revoked. Go smoke more crack! I'm totally blown away that you would make such a statement. Your posts are normally more intelligent.

[Don]

I've said repeatedly that these guys are chart watchers. The people saying Neal wouldn't be bothered if Eclipse didn't sell well because he at least got to do his own thing are the one's on crack.

The whole spiel about how the world was now ready for Journey and Arnel was the" New King" just fanned the flames. Even Deen said the title of the album was chosen as a precursor to what they expected this record to do in terms of sales compared to Revelation.
I myself predicted (erroneously) that the album would sell 100k the first week and peter off quickly.
Apparently the band had bigger aspirations then even that. Yet, when I see how they let a song with radio play die on the charts by not even giving it a chance live, I have to realize that not everything can be blamed on management and the band members in charge have to look at themselves also when they wonder how this record went from hero to zero so quickly.

[yulog]

Generations was given away for free, no one should have expected people to go out and buy it, just like Prince who gave away 3 million of his cds Planet earth sales did not do particularly well at all compared to his previous cds.

It is my understanding that those Prince cds counted as sales. Neal copied the idea, in the hopes that he could game the system. By the time Gens was being handed out at shows, the RIAA changed the rules. The band would finally cheat the system succesfully by including re-recorded hits with Revelation and landing on the chart.

I don't see how, he did that stunt in the U.K. not in the states, it may count in the global count but not in the states, that's where Neal went wrong, giving them out in the U.S.A instead of the U.K., Prince actually worked out a way to get over 1/2 million bonus for his stunt, somehow i'm guessing Neal didnt get anything extra.

[ForceInfinity]

My big beef with Generations aside from the sound seeming muffled, muddy, etc had to do with "A Better Life" For some reason, it seemed like on the CD I had, there were a couple weird skips that took place on the song. I thought, "okay, I somehow scratched the CD". Girlfriend had a CD of her own, played the same song and heard the skip at the exact same place. Not sure if it was an issue with the Reno/Tahoe batch or whatever.

As to the songs off of Generations, it begins to lose me as soon as we get to Butterfly and Believe. And from the Red 13 CD, I absolutely hated Time. It has a really annoying chorus that I found as grating as Frontiers (another song by Journey I just cannot stand).

Faith in the Heartland, well I like the Revelation version just a bit better though I liked the soaring guitars after the last chorus from Generations better.

You guys that are talking about the muffled, muddy sound, did you all get your CDs from the concerts? I got mine from the store (probably Wal-Mart) and there's nothing wrong with the production at all. In fact, sonically wise, it sounds better than my Arrival CD. I'm not playing it on any big, overly expensive stereo system either. I haven't heard any weird skips on A Better Life. I'm listening to the album as we speak (because I want to see if I can hear these "skips" you speak of.) I'm just wondering if the CDs that were passed out at the concerts were "demo" copies, kind of like what Evanescence sold at their concerts?

Have to disagree with you on a couple of points. I love the Frontiers song. Maybe it's more because of the nostalgic feeling I get listening to that song (because it reminds me of 1980's technology for some strange reason) but I absolutely love that song! Love the chorus, love everything about the song. Of course, like most people know, the Frontiers album is what got me into Journey in the first place. Also, on "Faith", I think the original version of the song is much better than the remake on Revelations. That repetitive guitar riff Schon had on the Revelation version is down right annoying to me. His original riff flowed through the song much smoother IMO. Also, while I did like the last part where Arnel took it up on the "Give me something to believe in", over all, I didn't like his version at all.

As a matter of fact, it was a free CD. We both got them from the Reno/Tahoe concert. FITH was a weird beast for me. As I said above I gave it a bit of an edge, but there were things from both versions I wish could've been meshed together. The cleaner sound and the drums pushed it over the top for me while the guitar was just plain better in the Augeri version.

As to Frontiers... the thing that drove me up the wall was the staggered layers that Perry started doing with the Frontiers chorus near the end of the track. The other annoying thing was the awkward sounding beat that just made the song feel off balance. I have the lyrics in my head and I like the lyrics. I just didn't care for it musically. (Oddly enough my favorite tracks from Frontiers wound up being Chain Reaction and Rubicon).

[The_Noble_Cause]

Cheat the system? Dude, they played by the RIAA's own rules and if they didn't and the RIAA thought they had cheated or "beat the system" the certification would not have been made and could have certainly been revoked. Go smoke more crack! I'm totally blown away that you would make such a statement. Your posts are normally more intelligent.

The band has yet to have success w/out riding on the coattails of the past. The other idea Neal mentioned was including a new cd with a dvd of the hits. Revelation fits that description as well. Until they have a cd of original material that sells on its own merits, they are gaming the system. Thankfully they've yet to completely sell out and release a covers cd like STYX did.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I don't see how, he did that stunt in the U.K. not in the states...

Wrong. The cd was included in UK newspapers, and also given away at concerts here in the US.

[jestor92]

Cheat the system? Dude, they played by the RIAA's own rules and if they didn't and the RIAA thought they had cheated or "beat the system" the certification would not have been made and could have certainly been revoked. Go smoke more crack! I'm totally blown away that you would make such a statement. Your posts are normally more intelligent.

The band has yet to have success w/out riding on the coattails of the past. The other idea Neal mentioned was including a new cd with a dvd of the hits. Revelation fits that description as well. Until they have a cd of original material that sells on its own merits, they are gaming the system. Thankfully they've yet to completely sell out and release a covers cd like STYX did.

They did a Styx and sold a release of covers. It was called Revelation Of the "11 new songs", 1 was a cover from the Augeri era and one was a throwaway instrumental. At best you have a release that was 12 covers vs 10 new songs. I don't know I'd consider that a Styx like release with the exception of the new music having a better ratio thank Styx.

[The_Noble_Cause]

They did a Styx and sold a release of covers. It was called Revelation Of the "11 new songs", 1 was a cover from the Augeri era and one was a throwaway instrumental.

Styx, like Posion, released a covers cd of other peoples' music. H-U-G-E difference.
As for the Rev instrumental...I guess you think The Majestic and Departure are a waste of time too? What board am I on again? Every other post sounds like some Sony record bean counter trying to limit Neal's guitar.

[jestor92]

They did a Styx and sold a release of covers. It was called Revelation Of the "11 new songs", 1 was a cover from the Augeri era and one was a throwaway instrumental.

Styx, like Posion, released a covers cd of other peoples' music. H-U-G-E difference.
As for the Rev instrumental...I guess you think The Majestic and Departure are a waste of time too? What board am I on again? Every other post sounds like some Sony record bean counter trying to limit Neal's guitar.

You got me I go and listen to the old Rollie records so I can hear those brief instrumentals of Majestic and Departure. Whoo Let's be honest. You're not buying a Journey album to listen to instrumentals. The instrumental that was on the cd wasn't very good.

Since you don't want to consider Revelation a cover cd, let's place it in the category it really is then... a karaoke cd. The reason the album sold well is because it was riding off the past. The band thinks so highly of the album they can't even put After All These Years in the set list and that was the 'hit' off the album.

People blame Wal Mart for Journey's lack of success from Eclipse, but why don't they blame Journey for the lack of success for Eclipse. Revelation was their biggest selling album in years and was a weak effort. If I'm a fan and I purchase a new album by an old band who was on their 3rd lead vocalist from the classic era that I know and the album full of new matierial sucked I wouldn't buy their follow up. I think that's more of the case that happend with Eclipse than you can blame Wal Mart of their "lack of promotion".

[The_Noble_Cause]

You got me I go and listen to the old Rollie records so I can hear those brief instrumentals of Majestic and Departure. Whoo Let's be honest. You're not buying a Journey album to listen to instrumentals. The instrumental that was on the cd wasn't very good.

I thought it was a very cool piece. Better than Venus on Eclipse. Not sure why you are so dismissive over a guitar instrumental coming from a band originally built around a guitarist. Much of the post-Perry fanbase hangs in there because of Neal.

Since you don't want to consider Revelation a cover cd, let's place it in the category it really is then... a karaoke cd. The reason the album sold well is because it was riding off the past.

I've said this repeatedly. You're changing the topic. Styx has't put out new material in years and released covers of other bands. That is the nadir of musical creativity. Journey has yet to sink this low. To Neal's credit, they are always releasing something new. Can't say the same for many of their peers.

The band thinks so highly of the album they can't even put After All These Years in the set list and that was the 'hit' off the album.

I'm sure if they had room in the set, they would add it. Right now, the focus is on Eclipse.

People blame Wal Mart for Journey's lack of success from Eclipse, but why don't they blame Journey for the lack of success for Eclipse. Revelation was their biggest selling album in years and was a weak effort. If I'm a fan and I purchase a new album by an old band who was on their 3rd lead vocalist from the classic era that I know and the album full of new matierial sucked I wouldn't buy their follow up. I think that's more of the case that happend with Eclipse than you can blame Wal Mart of their "lack of promotion".

Ok, it seems you just don't like Revelation very much. Maybe you should start a thread about it. I think alot of the Rev songs sound like retreads, but they are great retreads. To bring the topic back hom, Revelation is a much stronger cd than Generations!

[jestor92]

You got me I go and listen to the old Rollie records so I can hear those brief instrumentals of Majestic and Departure. Whoo Let's be honest. You're not buying a Journey album to listen to instrumentals. The instrumental that was on the cd wasn't very good.

I thought it was a very cool piece. Better than Venus on Eclipse. Not sure why you are so dismissive over a guitar instrumental coming from a band originally built around a guitarist. Much of the post-Perry fanbase hangs in there because of Neal.

Since you don't want to consider Revelation a cover cd, let's place it in the category it really is then... a karaoke cd. The reason the album sold well is because it was riding off the past.

I've said this repeatedly. You're changing the topic. Styx has't put out new material in years and released covers of other bands. That is the nadir of musical creativity. Journey has yet to sink this low. To Neal's credit, they are always releasing something new. Can't say the same for many of their peers.

The band thinks so highly of the album they can't even put After All These Years in the set list and that was the 'hit' off the album.

I'm sure if they had room in the set, they would add it. Right now, the focus is on Eclipse.

People blame Wal Mart for Journey's lack of success from Eclipse, but why don't they blame Journey for the lack of success for Eclipse. Revelation was their biggest selling album in years and was a weak effort. If I'm a fan and I purchase a new album by an old band who was on their 3rd lead vocalist from the classic era that I know and the album full of new matierial sucked I wouldn't buy their follow up. I think that's more of the case that happend with Eclipse than you can blame Wal Mart of their "lack of promotion".

Ok, it seems you just don't like Revelation very much. Maybe you should start a thread about it. I think alot of the Rev songs sound like retreads, but they are great retreads. To bring the topic back hom, Revelation is a much stronger cd than Generations!

1. If I want to listen to guitar instrumentals from the guitarist. I'll buy one of his solo releases. I do agree with The Journey being a better instrumental than Venus.

2. You're the one who brought up about the band "not living" off the past. I simply pointed out that Revelation is their attempt to live off the past. That new album Eclipse is really helping them move some product isn't it?

3. There isn't room for After All These Years? They've been playing La Do Da and When You Love A Woman. If there is "no room" for After All These Years and there is room for La Do Da and When You Love A Woman, what does that say about After All These Years? Granted When You Love A Woman is a bigger hit than After All These Years will ever be, but wouldn't it make sense to at least replace one ballad with another ballad from your 1st album with the new vocalist? Who knows maybe Arnel can't remember the lyrics for After All These Years. They're trying to make themselves relevent with Arnel so instead of showing off music from his debut they're playing music from Perry's first and last albums. Neither song is a staple so that makes no sense.

I disagee with Revelation being better than Generations. Generations is better and it's not even close. Revelation is IMO the worst album they've released. Generation as I stated when I started the topic would've been better off with less songs. Once you trim the fat off that album you would then have one good album. Generations is so great Arnel even had to sing karaokee to one of the tracks

[Ritchie]

Generations had two memorable songs,Faith In The Heartland and Place In Your Heart.
The audio sounds like it is coming from the inside of an elephants ass,probably the end mix was done by someone who just smoked the biggest bong ever or had some serious consultation with Dr.Jack Daniel`s...or both.

[yulog]

I don't see how, he did that stunt in the U.K. not in the states...

Wrong. The cd was included in UK newspapers, and also given away at concerts here in the US.

Wasn't the Planet earth tour in London? I believe 21 dates, didn't Prince say after the tour he wanted to take time off to travel and study the bible? Was there actually an official tour in the states? The cd was given away at concerts in London . I know he ended his deal in Vegas before this cd came out,I dont remember him touring "officially" in the states for this cd, which in recent years has been the case . Sometimes he will tour Europe for a cd other times he will only tour the States and then once in a blue moon he will do both.

From all the info out there Prince didnt want to go all over Europe for this tour so he decided to have all the shows in London because he liked it there.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I disagee with Revelation being better than Generations. Generations is better and it's not even close. Revelation is IMO the worst album they've released.

I'm pretty open minded, but this is not a serious opinion. Sorry. Have a few drinks with Neal and he'll prolly tell you Gens is a piece of crap and he was just marking time till Augeri quit.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The cd was given away at concerts in London . I know he ended his deal in Vegas before this cd came out,I dont remember him touring "officially" in the states for this cd, which in recent years has been the case . Sometimes he will tour Europe for a cd other times he will only tour the States and then once in a blue moon he will do both.

From all the info out there Prince didnt want to go all over Europe for this tour so he decided to have all the shows in London because he liked it there.

Look, I don't care. Prince gave cds out in the states. The bottom line is that's where Neal got the idea from.

[yulog]

The cd was given away at concerts in London . I know he ended his deal in Vegas before this cd came out,I dont remember him touring "officially" in the states for this cd, which in recent years has been the case . Sometimes he will tour Europe for a cd other times he will only tour the States and then once in a blue moon he will do both.

From all the info out there Prince didnt want to go all over Europe for this tour so he decided to have all the shows in London because he liked it there.

Look, I don't care. Prince gave cds out in the states. The bottom line is that's where Neal got the idea from.

You dont care? You cared enough to say i was wrong but when presented with the possibility that you were wrong ,now you dont care?....

[The_Noble_Cause]

You dont care? You cared enough to say i was wrong but when presented with the possibility that you were wrong ,now you dont care?....

I said that Prince gave out cds in the states. This is verifiable by a quick Google search. He may have also done it across the pond. Don't really care. It was this tactic that Neal emulated with Gens, in the hopes of charting on Bilboard - the US standard for singles.

Neal Schon: "I saw Prince do it. I went to his show in Minneapolis and I got pulled aside and was told to check this out: when you buy a ticket – you get his new record."

http://www.bravewords.com/features/1000391

Err...what country is Minneapolis in again?